Rosie_0801 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Please, pour out your wisdom here, because I can't find anything useful anywhere else. Dd has been diagnosed with poor fine motor planning issues. This is not a huge surprise. Her visual skills are fine, her fine motor skills are fine, but the in between part, the *logic* part, is about as good as her logic skills in other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer-72 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 No easy answers to motor planning trouble. I would be surprised to learn that it is limited to only having fine motor planning trouble, has she been assessed by a PT for her gross motor as well? Generally, the best things that have worked here are probably what you are already doing. Visual and auditory cues, breaking things down to each single step, and using the goal plan do check method. After she starts to get the plan down slowly fading the cues (visual first then auditory). You can also use backwards chaining to help with the success factor. It takes lots of repetition to get the plan to move into a more automatic like response. Our OT worked on lots of rhythm activities as well and having ds keep a movement pattern to a ryhythm for a minimum six times. I can't remember the exact reason for the 6 times, but I believe it was something about it becoming automatic movement pattern in the brain. So she started with fairly simple activities like clapping or jumping to the beat for as many times as he could manage. He had a very hard time with that, but eventually got it and moved on to more eloborate movement patterns. Are there specific fine motor activities that are giving her trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 She hasn't been assessed for gross motor planning, but she took a year off learning to speak as a tot so I think she pretty much remediated herself. Not entirely, because she took a while to learn to ride her bike without sticking her knees out, but that's a minor issue and I'm not seeing anything there that I think worth stressing over. She's having trouble with handwriting and can't do tangram puzzles. She has trouble with piano, but I don't know if that is motor planning. auditory processing or not really caring about accuracy. We do it anyway, very slowly, because it's good for crossing the midline and strengthening her left side. I'm not going to be able to get her to do the sort of clapping or jumping to a beat things like you describe because she won't respect it as real work. *sigh* She's doing well with her drawing lessons, because she is told what order to do things and can see how to do them too. Plus, drawing doesn't involve language or maths, both of which are weak areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I would really recommend an Occupational Therapist. it is amazing what strategies they come up with that can really help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I do know one who isn't a nutter, so I may well give her a ring. I'm a bit, uh, occupied with other more urgent things at present so it might have to wait until later in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 No easy answers to motor planning trouble. I would be surprised to learn that it is limited to only having fine motor planning trouble, has she been assessed by a PT for her gross motor as well? Generally, the best things that have worked here are probably what you are already doing. Visual and auditory cues, breaking things down to each single step, and using the goal plan do check method. After she starts to get the plan down slowly fading the cues (visual first then auditory). You can also use backwards chaining to help with the success factor. It takes lots of repetition to get the plan to move into a more automatic like response. Our OT worked on lots of rhythm activities as well and having ds keep a movement pattern to a ryhythm for a minimum six times. I can't remember the exact reason for the 6 times, but I believe it was something about it becoming automatic movement pattern in the brain. So she started with fairly simple activities like clapping or jumping to the beat for as many times as he could manage. He had a very hard time with that, but eventually got it and moved on to more eloborate movement patterns. Are there specific fine motor activities that are giving her trouble? I assume you're talking about metronome work there, but what do you mean by more elaborate movement patterns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 She's having trouble with handwriting and can't do tangram puzzles. She has trouble with piano, but I don't know if that is motor planning. auditory processing or not really caring about accuracy. We do it anyway, very slowly, because it's good for crossing the midline and strengthening her left side. I'm not going to be able to get her to do the sort of clapping or jumping to a beat things like you describe because she won't respect it as real work. *sigh* Yes, I think you're right that the piano thing is a midline, corpus colossum thing. My dd could read a note and name it OR play the note you named. She couldn't get them to connect. This past year she decided to try again and slowly taught herself, painstakingly. She's still not proficient but she actually can sorta read the music and strike notes, which she couldn't do before. And she had OT for midline issues. I think it's the two sides of the brain needing to connect to make the whole process happen, meaning indeed anything you do for midline issues will be valuable. Doesn't respect it (the clapping) or can't do it? Kinda different, kwim? My ds could not do it, not at all. I had to put my hands on his and slow him down. Like just give me *1 clap* to a beat. Then clapping as we say and touch letters of the alphabet with an alphabet puzzle. If I put my hands on his, he could slow down and get a couple, then he went back into hyper clap. Not being willing to do something and not be able are different things. The metronome work some OTs do is brilliant, but you *can* do some of it at home for no cost at all if you have anything that will tick like a metronome. There are lots of free metronome apps if you have a device that uses apps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Doesn't respect it (the clapping) or can't do it? Kinda different, kwim? My ds could not do it, not at all. I had to put my hands on his and slow him down. Like just give me *1 clap* to a beat. Then clapping as we say and touch letters of the alphabet with an alphabet puzzle. If I put my hands on his, he could slow down and get a couple, then he went back into hyper clap. Not being willing to do something and not be able are different things. The metronome work some OTs do is brilliant, but you *can* do some of it at home for no cost at all if you have anything that will tick like a metronome. There are lots of free metronome apps if you have a device that uses apps. It's both. She doesn't respect it even if she can do it. That's why I bought a bloody piano instead of having her do marching exercises which don't cost a blessed thing. Is this stuff a symptom of crossing the midline issues? Or is it a thing on it's own? It seems to be connected to her lack of logic in other areas, but I don't know if that is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It's both. She doesn't respect it even if she can do it. That's why I bought a bloody piano instead of having her do marching exercises which don't cost a blessed thing. Is this stuff a symptom of crossing the midline issues? Or is it a thing on it's own? It seems to be connected to her lack of logic in other areas, but I don't know if that is true. I guess you're losing me on the "lack of logic" thing. Maybe you want to explain that? I agree with you that all the little (and big) dots you see are connected. In fact, it blew my mind recently when I was reading about CAPD and found that in fact *it* is an indication of midline issues. So I don't think you're crazy there at all. Lack of respect. You say that, and with my ds I call it getting him into my world. Do we mean the same thing? I think you're right that at some point you're going to adapt and find the therapy in the things they're ready to connect with if the way other kids get there isn't what's going to connect. Totally agree. I think your willingness to buy a piano to nurture that is brilliant and if she's happy to play then by all means keep going! If you have *access* to an OT or further evals or options, it's always good to pursue them. I like the therapists, because it always seems they teach *me* things I can carry over to other, more real life or interest-driven things, kwim? When you know what you're trying to accomplish, then you can accomplish it ways the child will connect with or value things you didn't quite realize were so valuable. You might look at videos from this place and see if any of them inspire you. http://mimlearning.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Though crossing the midline is different from coordination across the midline? The muscles on side of body/ head are controlled by their own side of the brain. We also concieve of space to the left and right, in different sides of our brain. From birth, the first process is develop independent muscle control on each side, and also an internal and external spacial awareness on each side. Then the next process, is to develop a connection between both sides. Which begins with baby learning to clap its hand together. But an important point with this, is that both hands meet at a mid-point. Which is a meeting of both side of the brain. Maybe you could simply close your eyes, and then bring the fingertips of both hands together? Directly in front of you, at the mid-point. But then you might try the same, but this time, bring the fingertips of both hands together. On the left side, and then the right side. This is when 'crossing the midline' really occurs? So then one hand actually crosses into other hands space. It needs to switch to sharing spacial awareness in the other side of the brain. So that with 'crossing the midline', it actually involves an arm or leg crossing to other side. But a similar thing happens when our eyes turn from left to right. Though with piano, and using both hands? Each hand stays to its own side. So that this involves coordination of both sides, rather crossing. I might ask how she went with learning to crawl? As this is the primary exercise use to develop 'coordination' between both sides of the brain. Riding a bike also uses coordination, as the legs don't cross the midline. So that it could a coordination difficulty? Can she easily toss a small ball, from hand to hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 My son has done some complex motor imitation. It is things like: "clap, clap, hands on top of head" "rub hands together slowly" "rub hands together quickly" "clap hands and hold them together" "try to look at someone and clap at the same time as they clap slowly/exaggeratedly" "clap once then put hands in your lap" He also did some cards where you imitate animal movements with your whole body. Like -- one card was to walk like an elephant. One card was to walk like an eagle. I think these might really all be gross motor and not fine motor, I am not sure, but these are all things he did for motor imitation. There is also "imitation with objects" where he could copy a car driving, or copy a little figurine going up to the play castle and knocking on the door. We did a lot of this with video modeling. I have seen a program where the child goes through a sequence of pretending to make a cake with things in a play kitchen. It is not like "do it perfect," just kind-of getting them to get the things out, pretend to add ingredients, pretend to stir, pretend to pour, and then pretend to put in the oven, take out, etc. For what we were doing -- that would be the end goal, kind-of. It was more about developing basic play skills that require motor sequences, and it was on the more basic side, more on the pre-school side, more on the "really delayed in play skills" side. Right now his imitation program is things like "I'm a little tea-pot" and "head, shoulders, knees, and toes." Right now he can sing well, or he can do the motions well. He is just, just starting to be able to sing and do movements at the same time. He is doing things like managing to sing the first line, or managing to sing the last word in a line. For fine motor imitation, I do think he has done things where you imitate someone doing something with playdough? Just like "now let's do this." Or "watch, can you do this?" Or "do this" and then he gets a token on his token board. I think he has also done fine motor imitation with arts and crafts projects. I think they can consider some of those to be fine motor imitation. There are a lot of chances to say "pick this up and put it here" or "glue the paper there" or to have things out and he picks things up and glues them, or helps to hold something that someone else tapes or staples, etc. A lot of things like that I think do count for fine motor imitation. He has also done activities for math that are also fine motor -- when you pick things up and count them, or slide beads and count them. Or, sorting things by color that you pick up and move, or pick up with tweezer things, etc. Those might be simple and not complex. I am not sure. Anyway -- these are things that my little son has done for imitation. He started out not really able to imitate at all, he could not even clap his hands for "If you're happy and you know it clap your hands." He would look at me like he wanted to, but he didn't know how. I wish I had known about gentle hand-over-hand for him a lot earlier. It is a lot easier for him to learn from gentle hand-over-hand at first (just helping him clap) and then over time he has gotten to where he can put it together and imitate just by looking. Video modeling can also be good b/c it will be the exact same each time, and it may be easier to concentrate on a screen instead of on a whole room. We have not done that with a lot, but when we have thought we needed it, it has worked very well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 We have an appointment with the OT in a fortnight. I'm not in the mental space to focus on the rest of your posts atm. *I'm* being evaluated as a *person* today. This is rather nerve-wracking. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Rosie you are in my thoughts constantly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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