RIT vs WPI and girls in STEM

[Matryoshka]

Sorry, a bit of a mishmash of topics... :)

 

So, dd16 is thinking of majoring in Computer Science.  She does not want to write software programs, and she does not want to focus on hardware.  She'd like to use programming to do practical things, like program robots or something using AI, or maybe use programming to do  real-world problem solving an analysis, like in astrophysics. 

 

We just visited RIT this week, and now it's an equal choice with WPI, but there are of course a lot of differences, and she wanted me to come here and ask if anyone had any opinions or experiences with these schools, especially in the areas she's interested in.  (Of course, this all assumes she'd get in both places and they'd both be affordable, but for the sake of argument, let's assume.  If she decides RIT is her first choice she'd probably apply Early Decision, otherwise not).

 

Looking at what they have to offer, she thinks if she went to RIT she'd like to major in Computer Science with a concentration in Artificial Intelligence and maybe minor in Physics or Astronomy.  At WPI she's thinking she might major in Computer Science and minor in Robotics Engineering.

 

She'd really like to spend time abroad in Germany, but it looks like both schools could give her that opportunity.  RIT's CS dept. has a German study-abroad program, specializing in AI no less, and she might also be able to do a coop in a German-speaking country.  WPI has en exchange in Konstanz, and the option to do some of their major project work in German-speaking Switzerland.

 

RIT has now gone to semesters; WPI has 7-week quarters (you take 3 classes/quarter).  Both have strong coop programs, but it's built-in to the program at RIT and optional at WPI.  WPI is more group-project based (she likes that part).  RIT will probably be more affordable, but no way to be sure till we're on the other side.

 

And then to the girls in STEM thing - today I visited Wellesley College with her twin sister.  I didn't even think of a school like that for the CS dd, and left her home.  But then two of the panelists were CS majors, and they went on about how great their CS program was, and of course the school gave the whole speech on how going to a women's college can give women the chance to excel and find their voice instead of being overtalked by men.  She's been the only girl on her robotics team for three years running, and one of the lead programmers, and she's still not sure the boys realize she's there.  She's the only girl in her AP CS class.  She'll be one of about 4 girls taking AP Physics C next year.  WPI and RIT have a deficit of women, and it's worse in the CS dept (as opposed to biotech etc.)  I'm pretty sure she can handle that, but I want her to thrive. :)  On the other hand, she likes the nerdy atmosphere at the tech schools... ;)  Anyone have any idea how the atmosphere at WPI/RIT is for girls in CS?

 

Students who attend Wellesley can also take classes at MIT and Olin, and it's very commonly done.  But while Wellesley students do a lot of internships, I wonder a bit about the strength of their CS connection, and I don't think they necessarily have the coop options?  While there's a very strong alumnae network, would a CS major from a school like Wellesley really have the job opportunities as someone from a tech school like RIT or WPI?  Dd's decided to visit both Wellesley and Olin and we'll ask more questions, but I thought I'd ask y'all's opinion, as the Hive has such a wealth. :)

[G5052]

 

Students who attend Wellesley can also take classes at MIT and Olin, and it's very commonly done.  But while Wellesley students do a lot of internships, I wonder a bit about the strength of their CS connection, and I don't think they necessarily have the coop options?  While there's a very strong alumnae network, would a CS major from a school like Wellesley really have the job opportunities as someone from a tech school like RIT or WPI?  Dd's decided to visit both Wellesley and Olin and we'll ask more questions, but I thought I'd ask y'all's opinion, as the Hive has such a wealth. :)

 

When I got my computer science undergrad in the mid-1980's, I was one of only two female graduates the year that I got my diploma.  The other was a woman in the graduate program, and she was the daughter of one of the founders of HP.  Then I went into a research job where there was only one other woman at that level, all of the other women were secretaries or technicians.  Graduate school was a little better because there were three of us.

 

And honestly, I did just fine.  Of course it was hard, and I always felt like I had to work twice as hard to get noticed.  That will be true no matter where she goes to school.

 

If she was my daughter, I'd pick the program that has the strongest tech school with diverse opportunities, period.  She can network with guys too, BTW.  It's male-dominated field, and she needs to network with guys. You want a diverse school because she may find something slightly different to focus on, although the kind of focus she's talking about is more of a graduate school focus than undergraduate. Where she got her degree from will matter a lot for her first jobs and graduate school, but then it will be all about her professional contacts.  And yes, coop opportunities are very important too.  I wouldn't get any kind of degree these days without that. 

[Gwen in VA]

1) The atmosphere at a women's college is VERY different from at a co-ed one. She should spend some significant time on campus before deciding to apply, preferably an overnight.

 

I transferred from an all-women's college (Smith) to an engineering school. My graduating class was about 20% women. And I loved it and was so glad I transferred. In grad school I did have one class where I was the only female and the prof was an old-school gentleman and I was definitely not welcome, but that was 30 years ago and my undergraduate experience was 100% positive.

 

2) The availability of coops / internships is HUGE. Don't undervalue it!

 

3) Taking classes at a school is very different from getting a degree there. What classes do Wellesley students commonly take? Are they the advanced-level classes that you would would want to take at MIT, or are they the 100-level classes that students take at MIT just for variety? When I was at MIT, 100-level economics classes at MIT were very popular with Wellesley students. Taking a 100-level econ class at MIT is cool, but I don't think that is what your daughter has in mind.

 

What about pre-reqs? Does Wellesley have the pre-reqs for advanced classes, or do you end up taking a LOT of classes at MIT just to take a particular 300-level class your junior year? Is there a maximum, meaning are there any requirements that a certain percentage of the classes in your major are taken at Wellesley? I would really TALK with someone before assuming that you could pop over to MIT for some super-interesting 300-level class in your major.

 

As an MIT student, I took a English literature class at Wellesley my senior year, and it worked pretty well. The bus ride is nice! However, between the bus ride and the class schedule, I needed a huge chunk of free time before and after the class just to get there and back. It was a bit of a pain and definitely not something I would have done more than once or twice over four years.

[Jen in NY]

RIT has made a huge effort to form a 'women in engineering' community on their campus. It's very, very friendly. For example, they host a pre-orientation program just for the entering frosh women. RIT was actually a favorite of my dd#2's, but the finances didn't work out as we had hoped.  We kinda thought it might end up that way right from the start, and sure 'nuff ..... it did. It's OK, but I was sad not to have RIT among her final choices since she has loved it and felt so comfortable there for so long.

 

Any chance you can come back next weekend?? Imagine RIT is so. much. fun!

[Matryoshka]

Thanks so much for the great feedback!  Okay, so Wellesley is back off the list, as you have confirmed my initial reasons for not even bothering to bring her.  The Wellesley folk were all so enthusiastic, I was wondering if I had overlooked something. ;) 

 

Anyone able to speak to the RIT/WPI question?

[monstermama]

I graduated from RIT (back when it was still quarters, so quite a while ago!).  I started out in CS before switching over to IT.  Even back then, there was a lot of support for women in terms of clubs, networking events, etc.  I was also did AP C++ and a networking academy in high school where I was the only girl.  There is a definite difference between high school guys and college guys...  I'm sure you already realize that, but I was a bit surprised and overwhelmed by all the attention I got as pretty much the only girl in my freshman CS classes!

 

I cannot emphasize how amazing and useful the co-op program is.  I did 4 quarters of co-op, one at a small company as a jack-of-all-trades computer person, one at a medium company with a strictly defined help desk role, and two quarters at a large international networking company.  Based on my co op work, I was offered a job after graduation, as were most of the other RIT folks I'd co-oped with.  It also gave me a good idea of what kind of company I wanted to work at once I graduated, as I was bored to death at the small company.

 

I don't know if they still have the Honors program, or if she'd qualify for that, but I got a very nice scholarship for that and the opportunity to take higher level classes earlier, as well as a lot more female friends (my year I think it was 50/50 male vs female for the Honors program).

 

If your DD has any other questions, even with my ancient experience, I'd be happy to answer them!

[justasque]

 

 

Anyone able to speak to the RIT/WPI question?

 

One of mine went into Accepted Students Day season with WPI at the top of their list, and RIT at the bottom.  After visiting both schools during ASD, looking more closely at the faculty, the administration, and the students, and asking a lot of hard questions of all of them, the list flipped.  WPI fell from grace - and fell hard.  We weren't impressed with the staff, but more importantly we were very unimpressed with the students. RIT shined, for all kinds of of reasons.  Administration and faculty were energetic and driven to create excellent academic programs that created strong pathways to post-graduation employment/success; students were smart and energetic and interested in a wide range of things beyond just classroom learning  - the kind of people who are "do-ers" in all kinds of ways.  We've been very happy with RIT.

[Matryoshka]

Thanks, Monstermama and Justasque.  RIT just keeps moving up the list!  I'm so glad to hear about your positive experiences!  I think we may head back there for a summer program they're doing for rising seniors.

 

PS. Monstermama, they've only very recently gotten rid of the quarter systerm - students in school there now are still talking about the switch and the adjustment period.

[angela in ohio]

My daughter wants to do the exact same thing, and she is happily finishing her first year at Olin. She hasn't taken a course at Wellesley yet, but she will be taking a Linguistics minor there starting next year. Olin's focus on engineering with purpose drew her, as it does many young women (part of the reason Olin enrolls almost an equal number of men and women.)

 

Please look my daughter up when you visit Olin! Kathryn from Michigan (there are only two students from Michigan, so they will know exactly who you mean.) She will be there doing research on a grant for women this summer.

 

We have really been happy with Olin, and like other selective schools, they are need blind. That made it less expensive for us than U of M even.