Stick with Spanish or try Latin?

[pitterpatter]

Please, help me think this through.

 

I started Spanish with DD when she was 5.5. She has studied it twice a week since then. She will turn 8 next month. We used Teach Them Spanish, Grade K and Grade 1 (heavily supplemented and enriched) and Song School Spanish. (We also used Risas y Sonrisas for several months before SSS, but the homeschool guide was a headache, so I sold it.)

 

Everything was very gentle, of course, but this is what I notice. She can accurately match Spanish and English words all day long...rarely a mistake. She can see and/or hear a Spanish word and translate it to English most of the time. If she forgets how a Spanish word is pronounced, she cannot sound it out...at all. She can still translate if for you, but she cannot read the word aloud in Spanish. Her memory is very good, but the speaking side of Spanish is difficult for her.

 

My plan was to spend next year working on reading Spanish and then progress to CAP's Spanish for Children after that.

 

We just learned that DD has convergence excess and I suspect dyslexia and perhaps something with word retrieval as well. (I'll admit culpability here. I am much better at expressing my thoughts in writing than speaking. Although, she's really quit good at oral narrations, so I don't know.) We will likely pursue a neuro-psych eval after we figure out whether she needs vision therapy.

 

I find it unlikely that DD will achieve a fluency with Spanish that will allow her to reach a conversational level that will benefit her in regard to a future job, etc. DH and I both took 5+ years of Spanish between high school and college and neither of us reached anything close to fluency. Honestly, I find it all rather disappointing. It's was a big investment with low return.

 

I keep thinking Latin may be a better fit for DD since the conversation side is not as important. I can see it being more helpful in regard to her academic pursuits. I'm thinking about dropping (or significantly scaling back) Spanish next year and giving Latin a try. I was planning to add Latin at some point anyway, but I don't see it being possible for at least another two years if we continue to focus on Spanish. In part, I kind of want to jump ship before we possibly become so invested in Spanish that we never get to Latin. Like I said, I feel like Spanish may very well yield zip in terms of usefulness. Really, what's the point if you can't speak it? We are rural. While we do have a small Spanish-speaking population in this area, there really aren't many/any opportunities for quality interaction.

 

PS - Would a different board be better for this thread?

[mom2bee]

Please, help me think this through.

 

I started Spanish with DD when she was 5.5. She has studied it twice a week since then. She will turn 8 next month. We used Teach Them Spanish, Grade K and Grade 1 (heavily supplemented and enriched) and Song School Spanish. (We also used Risas y Sonrisas for several months before SSS, but the homeschool guide was a headache, so I sold it.)

 

Everything was very gentle, of course, but this is what I notice. She can accurately match Spanish and English words all day long...rarely a mistake. She can see and/or hear a Spanish word and translate it to English most of the time. If she forgets how a Spanish word is pronounced, she cannot sound it out...at all. She can still translate if for you, but she cannot read the word aloud in Spanish. Her memory is very good, but the speaking side of Spanish is difficult for her.

It sounds like she has made a good amount of progress in the last 2.5 years. I want to point out that lots of language students struggle to speak or string together a 3 word sentence when they study from books--this isn't unusual or unheard of. Its especially complicated by the fact that rarely do students have a full-language model. A single fluent or native level teacher isn't sufficient in most languages. How is her English reading? Can she read in English and if so how well?

 

My plan was to spend next year working on reading Spanish and then progress to CAP's Spanish for Children after that.

I would do this, I would work through the Spanish syllabary and teach her to read in Spanish and have her practice reading a few simple sentences and phrases aloud each day and gradually work our way up to reading short passages and easy readers in Spanish.

We just learned that DD has convergence excess and I suspect dyslexia and perhaps something with word retrieval as well. (I'll admit culpability here. I am much better at expressing my thoughts in writing than speaking. Although, she's really quit good at oral narrations, so I don't know.) We will likely pursue a neuro-psych eval after we figure out whether she needs vision therapy. I honestly do not know anything about the LDs you mention so can't offer any advice there.

 

I find it unlikely that DD will achieve a fluency with Spanish that will allow her to reach a conversational level that will benefit her in regard to a future job, etc. DH and I both took 5+ years of Spanish between high school and college and neither of us reached anything close to fluency. Honestly, I find it all rather disappointing. It's was a big investment with low return.

Do not discount your 7yo child because they are progressing slowly. I know that it is frustrating to feel like you are spinning your wheels, but you have to be patient. Your wheels are spinning because you are going somewhere--you just aren't getting there quickly. The ability to access another world language is a valuable thing to have. In the states, Spanish might not be considered as prestigious as some languages, but its extremely practical.

I keep thinking Latin may be a better fit for DD since the conversation side is not as important. I can see it being more helpful in regard to her academic pursuits. How do you envision Latin being more beneficial for her academic pursuits? I'm not asking about the generic benefits of Latin, I mean which benefits do you see **your** daughter reaping from Latin study? Do you have a specific goal in mind--translation? Root study? Taking a Latin exam? I'm thinking about dropping (or significantly scaling back) Spanish next year and giving Latin a try. Personally I wouldn't do it. But that is mostly because I would never advise someone to drop a modern, living language for a dead one. You can study the roots and words from Latin, Greek and whatever old Germanic language that has influenced English to build your vocabulary. I was planning to add Latin at some point anyway, but I don't see it being possible for at least another two years if we continue to focus on Spanish. In part, I kind of want to jump ship before we possibly become so invested in Spanish that we never get to Latin. Like I said, I feel like Spanish may very well yield zip in terms of usefulness. Language study is never pointless. Learning--really getting it-- that there are other ways of speaking is  powerful and wonderful lesson to have internalized. If you study a 2nd language, then the grammar of your own language is made that much clearer.

 

Even if you can't orally speak Spanish just being able to passively understand, read and/or write Spanish is a useful skill to have in this day and age. Being able to (some what) read and write you can communicate with hundreds of millions of Hispanic people through the internet, you can watch movies, read books and listen to Spanish music simply because you can understand it. Spanish as a Romance language is as much of a gateway to French, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian as Latin is. You may actually run into someone who speaks Spanish and you never know when even just a small amount of utility in a language can make a difference. Really, what's the point if you can speak it? We are rural. While we do have a small Spanish-speaking population in this area, there really aren't many/any opportunities for quality interaction. I bet that there are even fewer opportunities to speak Latin and to read it, write it or hear it--again, you never know when a language will come in "handy".

 

Personally I would put all of my f-language energy into Spanish until middle school at least. If you are interested in Latin for the academic benefits, then I would wait until you were ready to study it at a higher caliber. Until then, I recommend learning to read and write in Spanish, watching DVDs in Spanish, watching Spanish cartoons on YouTube and studying as much Spanish as you can with your DD.

 

PS - Would a different board be better for this thread?

I think so. I would try cross-posting this to the General Ed or the K-8 board.

 

[cherylswope]

Please, help me think this through.

 

 

I keep thinking Latin may be a better fit for DD since the conversation side is not as important. I can see it being more helpful in regard to her academic pursuits. I'm thinking about dropping (or significantly scaling back) Spanish next year and giving Latin a try. I was planning to add Latin at some point anyway, but I don't see it being possible for at least another two years if we continue to focus on Spanish. In part, I kind of want to jump ship before we possibly become so invested in Spanish that we never get to Latin ....

 

You have already thought this through very well!

 

Yes, age 8 would be a good time to begin Latin for all of the reasons you mentioned & possibly more. If you teach from a grammar-rich program, the inherent English grammar may even assist your daughter's learning difficulties.

 

As you test for specific diagnoses, you can find a "clean," visually uncluttered Latin resource to accommodate for visual challenges.

 

Bonus - the pronunciation of Latin will be similar to Spanish!

 

 

Cheryl

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

[pitterpatter]

I appreciate your post. I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm trying to figure out whether my thoughts are sound. ;) I want to be sure I'm not just getting antsy. It's not that we're sick of Spanish and want to boot it out the door. DD enjoys Spanish, but I'm trying to be realistic. DD's bright and has a good memory, but there's a connection missing somewhere that makes the speaking/reading part of it difficult for her. I see Spanish as being more of a social asset than an academic one. If she never achieves a speaking fluency, then what's a practical use of the knowledge? Latin seems more useful within the academic realm. I keep thinking that we could always fold Spanish back in later.

 

 

You have already thought this through very well!

 

Yes, age 8 would be a good time to begin Latin for all of the reasons you mentioned & possibly more. If you teach from a grammar-rich program, the inherent English grammar may even assist your daughter's learning difficulties.

 

As you test for specific diagnoses, you can find a "clean," visually uncluttered Latin resource to accommodate for visual challenges.

 

Bonus - the pronunciation of Latin will be similar to Spanish!
 

 

Cheryl

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

 

[Renai]

I appreciate your post. I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm trying to figure out whether my thoughts are sound. ;) I want to be sure I'm not just getting antsy. It's not that we're sick of Spanish and want to boot it out the door. DD enjoys Spanish, but I'm trying to be realistic. DD's bright and has a good memory, but there's a connection missing somewhere that makes the speaking/reading part of it difficult for her. I see Spanish as being more of a social asset than an academic one. If she never achieves a speaking fluency, then what's a practical use of the knowledge? Latin seems more useful within the academic realm. I keep thinking that we could always fold Spanish back in later.

 

The missing piece is hearing it spoken with real people, which you say is not an opportunity you have. However, if you continue to study it, when she does get the opportunity to have conversations those pieces will fall into place.

 

As you know, our family is bilingual, but the benefit of learning Latin to do other languages works both ways. My 15yo dd has found knowing Spanish to be beneficial in her vocabulary root studies at school as so many Latin words are similar to Spanish. (Heck, we were able to figure out a lot of the Latin conversation in The Passion of Christ because of Spanish knowledge.)

 

As a pp said, reading and writing Spanish are just important. Businesses need people that can translate documents - both ways - not just be able to speak the language. I learned Spanish in college at age 24. I could read and write like anything, but couldn't speak worth much. I met my now-husband a year later and didn't understand most of what he said. Within 6 months of hanging around him and other Spanish speakers, all those pieces really fell into place (I could speak and be understood, as well as understand others). Having the background knowledge in reading and writing, translating, and just studying gave me "hooks" to hang on.

 

She's still young. Put away the reading for a couple of months and just listen and immerse in a lot of Spanish. Come back to the reading later if need be. Let her continue comparing the languages. If she has dyslexia (my oldest does), don't be surprised if she mixes syllables as she reads, since Spanish is by syllable not by letter. My daughter could read mapa as pama. It got better as she got older. How is her reading in English?

 

Also, don't underestimate a growing brain. Because of dd's issues, I never would have thought she would achieve fluency in being bilingual and biliterate at the age of 7. But, she is. Also, the amount of exposure to the language makes a difference too. Maybe try 3 days a week next school year.

 

But, yeah, she doesn't need speaking fluency to be practical. She wants to understand and be understood. That comes with time.