Questions for those who have used Literary Lessons from LOTR

[happypamama]

Are there additional readings suggested with this? Reading the Tolkien books sounds fantastic, but are other books scheduled in there too, to make a wider variety and heftier list for the year? Or do you have to schedule those yourself, and if so, is that pretty doable, or does it make it really difficult to fit all the Tolkien components plus additional readings in? I'm envisioning doing this in ninth or tenth grade, whenever DD studies medieval history (it'll be ninth if I line her up with the younger students so we can all enjoy some family medieval excitement, tenth if I keep her on her own rotation, which would have ancients in ninth, but I'm not opposed to moving it to tenth or even twelfth), but there are other things I want her to read to go with medieval history too.

 

Second, would it work well to use LLfLOTR along with one of the Writing With Skill books (either 2 or 3, depending on how the schedule falls)? It sounds like LLfLOTR has writing assignments but not a lot of writing instruction. I could easily make it two credits of English, or 1.5, depending on how many hours it all actually takes. I'm looking for the balance between sufficient and overkill, kwim?

[Lori D.]

On 4/24/2015 at 4:12 PM, happypamama said:

Are there additional readings suggested with this? Reading the Tolkien books sounds fantastic, but are other books scheduled in there too, to make a wider variety and heftier list for the year?

Suggested, yes. Scheduled no. The program as-written stands as only reading the three volumes of Lord of the Rings. To make the study wider and heftier than just the trilogy, yes, you would need to add, as desired.
 

On 4/24/2015 at 4:12 PM, happypamama said:

...do you have to schedule those yourself, and if so, is that pretty doable, or does it make it really difficult to fit all the Tolkien components plus additional readings in? 

Yes, you would need to schedule additional works. Plus, if desired, you would also need to find and use additional support material for the additional works (individual lit. guides, for example).
 

On 4/24/2015 at 4:12 PM, happypamama said:

...  is that pretty doable, or does it make it really difficult to fit all the Tolkien components plus additional readings in? 

 I'm envisioning doing this in ninth or tenth grade, whenever DD studies medieval history (it'll be ninth if I line her up with the younger students so we can all enjoy some family medieval excitement, tenth if I keep her on her own rotation, which would have ancients in ninth, but I'm not opposed to moving it to tenth or even twelfth)

Totally depends on your student and what else you are planning on doing English-wise, and overall credit-wise. 🙂

JMO: LLftLotR works well with:

- ancient history/lit. (LotR is an epic, as are many of the ancient classics; also Tolkien was well-versed in the ancient classics, and at times LotR has similar "tragic hero" themes to it like the ancient epics)

- medieval history/lit. (the characters, cultures, and settings of LotR are very influenced by Tolkien's love of and interest in Medieval lit., esp. Norse lit., so you'll see a lot of connections there)

- modern history/lit. (Tolkien experience WWI as a soldier, and lived through WW2 in Britain, so some of those horrors of war, as well as Tolkien's regrets at the loss of rustic country life to mechanized modern life are in LotR)

Again, JMO: LLftLotR works best with students in gr. 7-9, as it is a very gentle intro into studying a work of Literature a bit more in-depth. If your student has done a lot of formal literature studies and literary analysis previously, she will find LLftLotR to be disappointingly light. If she hasn't had much in the way of formal Literature previously, then I would not put off using this study, but do it next year as your student's intro into beginning literary analysis.

I would only recommend doing LLftLotR in 11th or 12th grades if with a remedial student. The program would be a huge step backwards for an older average or advanced high school student.

As far as what additional Lit. to schedule to go along with your history and/or LLftLotR study: lots of choices:

- misc. classic high school works
Choose four major works (one for each quarter) -- pick works you want to be sure your student covers, and that in looking ahead, you're thinking you might not get to otherwise.

- Windows to the World
Spread out the 1-semester Windows to the World over the year, and study 6 short stories in depth and learn about how to annotate, how to write a literary analysis essay using your annotations as support, and then learn how 8-10 of the most common literary elements work.

- ancient lit. -- epics
Do one ancient epic each quarter (every 9 weeks): Gilgamesh, Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid. (One of the units of LLftLotR goes into detail about the epic conventions, and gives background on Homer and his epic of The Iliad.)

- ancient lit. -- variety
Choose a different type of ancient lit. to do each quarter: an epic; Greek myths; a Greek play; philosophy: Plato and/or Aristole; non-fiction: a history; maybe a modern re-telling of the Cupid & Psyche myth -- CS Lewis' Till We Have Faces

- Medieval in 9th grade -- shuffle your history order
Medieval works that would esp. go well with LLftLotR are Beowulf (2 units go into detail on it) and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (1 unit goes into detail on it). Tennyson's poem about King Arthur, "Idylls of the King" is somewhat covered in one of the units, and some other King Arthur works such as The Once and Future King (White) are mentioned. Two of Shakespeare's plays, Macbeth and Midsummer Night's Dream are mentioned in passing. Tolkien was heavily influenced by Norse myths and sagas, so some of those might be a good option.

- read additional Tolkien
The Hobbit ("prequil" novel to LotR). "Farmer Giles of Ham"; "Smith of Wooton Major"; and "Leaf by Niggle" (short stories). Children of Hurin (tragic epic novel, set in Middle Earth). The Silmarillion. (creation myths and fragmentary tales on Middle Earth). "On Fairy Stories" (non-fiction essay about the power of fairy tales). Make the year an in-depth study of Tolkien -- see more ideas for resources in this past thread, "Any seriousTolkien Fans"

- read additional classic Fantasy

Compare/contrast worldview / themes / types of epics --  Watership Down (Adams), the Earthsea trilogy (LeGuin), short stories by George MacDonald: "The Golden Key", "The Wise Woman", "The Light Princess"; The Neverending Story (Ende), Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Carroll), Gormanghast (Peake), Dark is Rising series (Cooper)...

 

On 4/24/2015 at 4:12 PM, happypamama said:

...would it work well to use LLfLOTR along with one of the Writing With Skill books (either 2 or 3, depending on how the schedule falls)? It sounds like LLfLOTR has writing assignments but not a lot of writing instruction. I could easily make it two credits of English, or 1.5

Yes. In fact, you will likely *want* a separate writing program, as LLftLotR has no writing instruction, no grading rubric, no teaching helps on writing -- just a suggested writing assignment about once every 2-3 weeks.

JMO:
LLftLotR + WWS + some additional lit. = 1 solid credit of English
LLftLotR + WWS = a very light English credit.
 

On 4/24/2015 at 4:12 PM, happypamama said:

…  depending on how many hours it all actually takes. I'm looking for the balance between sufficient and overkill, kwim?

For your planning purposes: an English credit typically takes 6 to 6.5 hours per week. That is over the usual 1 hour/day x 5 days a week = 5 hours/week for 1 credit, because Literature (reading classics, discussing and writing about classics), and Writing are slow processes and take more time than most other subjects.

If you skip the busywork of the fill-in-the-blank comprehension and vocabulary worksheets, and the writing assignments, LLftLotR will take you about about 2.5-3 hours/week -- about 1 hour/week for reading, and about 1.5-2 hours to do the chapter notes, discussion questions and complete the reading/doing of 1 of the 12 units every 3 weeks.

That will still easily leave you 3-3.5 hours/week to fill with writing and additional literature in order to make 1 credit of English. The writing will likely fill about 2-2.5 hours/week of that time. That still leaves you a good hour a week for additional Literature. If your additional Literature (reading, discussing, and writing about it) adds more like 3-3.5 hours a week, then yes, count all of that as 1.0 credit = English, and 0.5 credit = Literature: Ancient Classics. Just what I would do. 🙂

Hope that helps! Enjoy your family journeys in Literature, and in Middle Earth! 😉 Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lori D.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I'm not much help for all of your questions.  We used LLfLOTR mostly as written.  I knew Lori would be helpful.  Here is another thread with lots of information.

xpost: Any serious Tolkien fans?? A question about The History of LOTR and book order, etc

[happypamama]

LoriD, you are amazing! This is really, really helpful. Right now I am thinking about shuffling the history order and having DD do medieval in ninth whether brothers are hitting it as well, and we can all live in the Middle Ages for the year, and LOTR will fit so nicely in there as a family study (and Hobbit for the little boys; the older two read it with DH a few years ago).

 

Adding in more lit will not be a problem. This year we have been doing a family Narnia study, but the kids all have their own list of other lit to read too. Norse tales sound good!

 

Thank you for the tips about the writing too. That's what I thought from the description.

[happypamama]

 

I'm not much help for all of your questions. We used LLfLOTR mostly as written. I knew Lori would be helpful. Here is another thread with lots of information. xpost: Any serious Tolkien fans?? A question about The History of LOTR and book order, etc

Oh, that thread is amazing! Thank you! Looks like there are tons of supplemental things we could do with it.

[Lori D.]

On 4/25/2015 at 5:30 AM, happypamama said:

Right now I am thinking about shuffling the history order and having DD do medieval in ninth whether brothers are hitting it as well, and we can all live in the Middle Ages for the year, and LOTR will fit so nicely in there as a family study (and Hobbit for the little boys; the older two read it with DH a few years ago).

Life is SO much easier if everyone is on the same History time period! 😉

Also I would seriously consider adding in any middle school aged siblings and do LLftLotR together. You'll get more interesting discussion that way, and it's just so fun to do as a family. 🙂 And as a family, after the younger siblings have gone through The Hobbit, do "Farmer Giles of Ham" (Tolkien) as a family -- it is a mock epic, and you'll all see connections with The Hobbit. Also, be sure to do The Reluctant Dragon (Grahame) as a family -- VERY fun! 🙂

Shakespeare is great to include while doing LLftLotR, but he does fall in the Renaissance period rather than Medieval period, just in case it makes a difference. 😉 Personally, I'd just study a Shakespeare play or two each year of high school, regardless of history time period, and enjoy! 🙂

If you do Sir Gawain, enjoy some of the questions and thoughts raised about the work in this past thread: "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight -- input needed, please".

While not a direct connection with Tolkien, you may want to do some Canterbury Tales with DD; these two tales slightly connect up with the King Arthur info in LLftLotR:
- The Wife of Bath's Tale -- has a King Arthur connection (protagonist is one of his knights)
- The Knight's Tale -- has an epic feel, and explores the concept of chivalry

You might also look into Hewitt Homeschooling's Medieval program. These are 1 semester programs, but would be perfect to spread out over a year to fill out LLftLotR -- 3 of the 8 works covered in Hewitt's Medieval Lightning Lit program are also in LLftLotR.

Some more Medieval ideas in these past threads:
"Norse Myths -- just how much I've missed not knowing these myths"
Medieval epic literature and adding some history
Quirky Medieval literature
WTM reading list Middle Ages
Homemade Medieval Great Books
"Must reads" for 10th grade Medieval lit. year
Middle Ages for Hight School -- suggestions (more for history ideas, but a few Lit. ideas, too)
Not to miss Lit. for Middle Ages (specifically historical fiction and lite/fun supplemental reading)

Enjoy your family Medieval year! 🙂 Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lori D.

[happypamama]

Life is SO much easier if everyone is on the same History time period! ;)

 

Also I would seriously consider adding in any middle school aged siblings and do LLftLotR together.

 

Yes, I think I will include the sixth grade brother in that too. I'll just adjust whatever I need to in order to fit him in.

 

You'll get more interesting discussion that way, and it's just so fun to do as a family. :) And as a family, after the younger siblings have gone through The Hobbit, do "Farmer Giles of Ham" (Tolkien) as a family -- it is a mock epic, and you'll all see connections with The Hobbit. Also, be sure to do The Reluctant Dragon (Grahame) as a family -- VERY fun! :)

 

Writing these down -- thanks! They all adored Tolkien's Father Christmas letters a couple of years ago, and the stories sound great!

 

Shakespeare is great to include while doing LLftLotR, but he does fall in the Renaissance period rather than Medieval period, just in case it makes a difference. ;) Personally, I'd just study a Shakespeare play or two each year of high school, regardless of history time period, and enjoy! :)

 

Yes, unless someone develops a particular interest in Shakespeare, that's my general plan as well, Tales from Shakespeare or similar and Coville picture books for elementary and then about a play a year for seventh and up, with a bit of a special mention when we run into him in the Renaissance.

 

If you do Sir Gawain, enjoy some of the questions and thoughts raised about the work in this past thread: "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight -- input needed, please".

 

 

While not a direct connection with Tolkien, you may want to do some Canterbury Tales with DD; these two tales slightly connect up with the King Arthur info in LLftLotR:

- The Wife of Bath's Tale -- has a King Arthur connection (protagonist is one of his knights)

- The Knight's Tale -- has an epic feel, and explores the concept of chivalry

 

You might also look into Hewitt Homeschooling's Medieval program. These are 1 semester programs, but would be perfect to spread out over a year to fill out LLftLotR. It covers:

 

1. Beowulf

2. Anglo-Saxon riddles

3. Piers the Ploughman

4. York Mystery Play Cycle 42, The Ascension

5. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

6. The Gest of Robyn Hode (selection)

7. "St. Thomas Becket" (biography)

8. Canterbury Tales (selections)

 

Of those, #1, 2, and #5 are also in LLftLotR.

 

Some more Medieval ideas in these past threads:

"Norse Myths -- just how much I've missed not knowing these myths"

Medieval epic literature and adding some history

Quirky Medieval literature

WTM reading list Middle Ages

Homemade Medieval Great Books

"Must reads" for 10th grade Medieval lit. year

Middle Ages for Hight School -- suggestions (more for history ideas, but a few Lit. ideas, too)

Not to miss Lit. for Middle Ages (specifically historical fiction and lite/fun supplemental reading)

 

Enjoy your family Medieval year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Oh my goodness, this is quite a treasure trove!! I expect this to be my favorite year. I have a degree in medieval history, so I've been waiting anxiously to have a high schooler who can read some of the great original stuff. Because we skipped around and followed DD's interests more in history when she was younger, we haven't done medieval since she was in second grade, and I've been looking forward to it ever since. And that will be the only time we will do medieval with all five children in the house (and with sixth grade, second grade, and Kindergarten boys, they will be at the perfect ages for knights and castles), so I expect it will be a very fun year. I think my biggest problem is going to be too many options for lit, haha. :)

 

Thank you so much for the encouragement and help!

[Lori D.]

On 4/25/2015 at 3:40 PM, happypamama said:

 I expect this to be my favorite year. I have a degree in medieval history, so I've been waiting anxiously to have a high schooler who can read some of the great original stuff… we haven't done medieval since she was in second grade, and I've been looking forward to it ever since. And that will be the only time we will do medieval with all five children in the house… . I think my biggest problem is going to be too many options for lit, haha. 🙂

Oh how wonderful! Yes, you're going to have a fabulous year! (Maybe year and a half, to do it all! 😉 ) And there are some wonderful past threads with all kinds of ideas for elementary-age Medieval historical fiction, resources, children's adaptations of Medieval classics, etc. So you may actually all be able to study Beowulf, or Canterbury Tales, all together -- each with an age-appropriate version. 🙂

And, you might consider rolling on into Explorers and American History all together next year, as your high schooler will need a year of American History, and there are tons of great U.S. History books, resources and curricula out there for that time frame/location too! 🙂 Just a thought for the future. 😉

Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lori D.

[Pod's mum]

Another thread to paste into WORD and store in my resources file.

Thank you  :)