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Saxon pre-algebra a disaster


brownie
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Not sure where to go next.  My 4th grader finished Singapore level 5 around mid-year.  He's my 3rd kid and my next step is typically a year of Saxon pre-algebra, then a little more algebra-like pre-algebra to fill the gaps (McDougal Littel), and then algebra.  I use Saxon for just 1 year because I feel like the spiral nature insures the computational foundations of algebra are definitely in their memories.  This kid in particular can do anything you show him 100 problems in a row, but then the next day has no clue how he did it.  Doing a mix of problems daily helps cement it in.

 

Well Saxon is never fun, but my 4th grader ends up in tears almost every day.  It is not the material.  There is nothing for me to teach him yet in lesson 12...it is all review. But he is SO SLOW.  We attempt only 20 problems a day and it is still a nightmare.  Today I pulled out the long division and multiplication problems because they are the most time consuming and it was still a nightmare.  I think it is a focus thing.  Every time he has to switch tracks, he loses a few minutes.

 

I don't want to go buying some other math curriculum that won't be a good fit.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Ideally maybe 4 types of problems a day with 20 problems total would be more reasonable right now but I don't really want to devote the time to creating my own pre-algebra curriculum for him if I can avoid it.

Thanks! Brownie

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Have you tried sitting with him while he does the problems? I mean, each and every single one? Does he still take a long time?

Yes, sitting through every problem is boring for the parent, I know--believe you me, I know.

Yes, he might whine, complain, yawn, gargle, argue, and carry on about not wanting your help, but does it help when you sit through every.single.problem?

 

 Can he physically write fluently? The different writing requirement between PM and Saxon is pretty big isn't it?

 

Are his math facts super automatic? I mean super-automatic? After we were 100% on the concept and properties of an operation, I finally made my boys learn the math facts. Songs and cutesy work arounds helped to make them more familiar but didn't lead to automaticity. Only daily drill did that and I still have them drill their math facts to keep them as close to instant as humanly possible.

 

What if you gave him 5 subtraction problems, and 5 division problems with instructions and space to check each problem by using the inverse operation?

 

Have you looked at Keys to...series? I used that series with my boys along side using Math Mammoth. Their conceptual understanding is unshakable and their algorithmic execution is very good also. We are doing other math programs this year that have less computation in them, so I have them working through a series of basic math review books to keep there computational skills sharp also.

 

When I sit with them and give them a worksheet, we review the concepts that they might need to do the problems. So if its addition and subtraction of whole or rational numbers---regrouping to compare or organize. If its multiplication and division of whole or rational numbers then we run through the concept of factors, common factors, the unit fraction, reciprocals etc..

 

Is there a reason why you don't use Primary Mathematics 6?

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Ooh - I forgot about "Key to...".  I did use that once to fill a gap for one of my other kids.  I will look at those again.

 

Yes I sit with him and when I tell him to pick his pencil back up, he argues that he is thinking.  He tries to do too much in his head.  His writing ability is quite strong, so that's no it though I wouldn't be surprised if the back and forth between the book and the paper is adding to the focusing issues.  I have one other child with really poor working memory. With a lot of effort in past years on my part, his math facts are quite good. He is not a natural memorizer.

 

Oddly, he took test 2 today and got through it in reasonable time without me admonishing him so perhaps the use of the text book rather than workbook is a significant factor.

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I'd try cutting down even more. 

 

I have one kid who is like this in general.  He just cannot hack doing some crazy number of problems.  So I basically chicken peck KWIM?  As long as we are doing some every day he gets it.

 

And you have to realize that while he might be ready for the concepts, he is still a 4th grader.  There is more going on than just concepts.  There is more writing, more organization, more stamina, etc.  He just might be struggling with that part so you need to think outside the box with how you are using the curriculum. 

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Can you type up the Saxon Problem sets, print them off and let him work directly on the page? You could leave white space on the page and he could write directly on the problem sets.

 

I know that it seems like a lot of work up front for you, but it might help tremendously to have something to write on directly, it could cut down on tears and drama and if you are type up 4 lessons a day, then it won't take you long to get through it all.

 

If Saxon is a fit for him, he can do the work both the math-part and the writing-part, but loses focus and momentum to copying out the problems, then it could be a solution.

 

 

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Sometimes I pick a few problems and write them out in large numbers in pen on another sheet.  Easier than trying to photo copy them and leave space.

 

Another thing though is that I think Saxon is VERY dry.  I was working through 7/8 with my 4th grader and he was just bored to heck.  So I bought one of those colorful Critical Thinking math workbooks and we've been working through that instead.  I haven't decided if I'll even go back to Saxon until Algebra 1. 

 

 

 

 

 

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CLE.  Spiral, lots of review, but I find it a lot more pleasant than Saxon.  Level 700 and 800 are Pre-Algebra but you could do one each semester and just cut out some of the review so you double up lessons without doubling up the work.  Or just do 700.  After that a lot of people just move into Algebra.  I would give a placement test, though.  Its a bit different scope and sequence.  That way you could target any gaps and start at Pre-Algebra without issues.  

 

You can look at samples here and you can get the diagnostic test.

 

https://www.clp.org/store/browse/239

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For my DD, cute and colorful still is a big part of whether a curriculum appeals. And what I've found works well when a curriculum is otherwise a good fit, but isn't cute, colorful, or whimsical, is to add that cute and colorful myself. Stickers, printing problem sets or tests onto colored paper instead of white paper, highlighters, letting her illustrate, etc. We've had to do that with AOPS, especially (which is occasionally whimsical, but isn't "cute"). Things like writing all of the formulas, rules, tips etc into cute notepads from the teacher's store to make a "froggy book of formulas" makes it easier.  Allowing doodling helps, too. DD is getting quite good at taking notes and outlining, but invariably, they'll have all sorts of little critters doodled around the edge.

 

It may not help salvage Saxon, but it's worth a try. A few packs of stickers are a lot cheaper than a new math curriculum!

 

 

 

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You could try out the Saxon algebra 1/2 at your own pace online course through the Virtual Homeschool Group, to see if that helps at all. It's free, and the problem sets and tests are online with computer scoring. http://www.virtualhomeschoolgroup.com/course/category.php?id=98 The algebra 1/2 course is not yet fully built out, but should definitely be far enough along that working behind the build team won't be an issue in your case. If the problem is switching between paper and book, it may not help since he may have to switch between paper and computer, but it's definitely the right price for a trial to see if it helps! :) Not much lost if it doesn't.

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For my DD, cute and colorful still is a big part of whether a curriculum appeals. And what I've found works well when a curriculum is otherwise a good fit, but isn't cute, colorful, or whimsical, is to add that cute and colorful myself. Stickers, printing problem sets or tests onto colored paper instead of white paper, highlighters, letting her illustrate, etc. We've had to do that with AOPS, especially (which is occasionally whimsical, but isn't "cute"). Things like writing all of the formulas, rules, tips etc into cute notepads from the teacher's store to make a "froggy book of formulas" makes it easier.  Allowing doodling helps, too. DD is getting quite good at taking notes and outlining, but invariably, they'll have all sorts of little critters doodled around the edge.

 

It may not help salvage Saxon, but it's worth a try. A few packs of stickers are a lot cheaper than a new math curriculum!

 

What a cool idea. 

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For my DD, cute and colorful still is a big part of whether a curriculum appeals. And what I've found works well when a curriculum is otherwise a good fit, but isn't cute, colorful, or whimsical, is to add that cute and colorful myself. Stickers, printing problem sets or tests onto colored paper instead of white paper, highlighters, letting her illustrate, etc. We've had to do that with AOPS, especially (which is occasionally whimsical, but isn't "cute"). Things like writing all of the formulas, rules, tips etc into cute notepads from the teacher's store to make a "froggy book of formulas" makes it easier.  Allowing doodling helps, too. DD is getting quite good at taking notes and outlining, but invariably, they'll have all sorts of little critters doodled around the edge.

 

It may not help salvage Saxon, but it's worth a try. A few packs of stickers are a lot cheaper than a new math curriculum!

This totally cracks me up! I never would have thought to try this.  I definitely have to keep playing with this. I am tired of the tears on material he totally knows.  When my oldest was in Saxon 7/6 (I think), I put the problems on the dry erase board...totally a pain but it seemed to work. I went back to my old standby of giving him 5 baking butterscotch chips for every 5 problems completed on Friday, but the novelty only lasted through about 10 problems.

 

Brownie

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