JessReplanted Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I would appreciate some input on this. We have been using CLE math, which I love. My son is not a real 'mathy' kid though. We work hard at math every day, and he has a solid "B". I have a lot of questions: I know there's a lot of people who have their kids doing Algebra I in 8th grade - but I'm not sure why? If your child does Algegra I in 8th grade, then what does the rest of high school math look like? Is this really only a trajectory for kids who really excel in math and plan to pursue math/science fields? And: When does everyone switch away from CLE? What do you switch to? I really love the order and structure of CLE, is there something similar? (I loathe Singapore Math.) Thank you for bearing with me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space station Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 The only reason to start algebra in 8th grade or earlier is if your student is ready to start it then. Many are, and having them do another year of basic arithmetic is boring and makes them think math is no fun. 😊 In our school district it is not unusual to have the advanced math students do algebra in 7th grade. The sequence generally looks like this, regardless of what year you get to Algebra: Algebra Geometry Algebra 2 w/ Trig Pre-calculus Calculus Of course there is a lot of other math that students can do if they get through all that (statistics, linear algebra, differential equations.) I haven't used CLE, but I think it only goes through Algebra 2/Trigonometry and it is not necessarily a rigorous program. I'm not saying it isn't a good fit for some kids, but it isn't necessarily the strongest program for a kid who has STEM interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You'll get different opinions on this topic, because there are different "norms" around the country. Some people believe their children will be at a serious disadvantage when it comes time to apply for college if they don't have algebra in 8th or even 7th grade. My opinion is: if your child is brilliant and driven enough to seek admission to top-tier schools that are that picky about which math class the kid took in 9th grade, then your child was probably ready in 8th or could probably accelerate through math and get through more math in high school even if they do algebra in 9th. My own school district, in fact state, does NOT push algebra in 8th grade. Algebra in 9th is absolutely fine and they aren't considered behind at all. Our state universities aren't selective enough to care. There is no reason for me to feel in any rush. My belief is that your child should take algebra when he/she will be successful at it. No sooner. Plenty of kids in PS have been tracked into algebra in 8th (or 7th) grade, but then struggle to keep up from that point forward. Some kids can do it - those who mastered pre-algebra topics and/or those who learn math easily enough to fill in gaps along the way. But it is no advantage to take algebra in 8th grade and then get B/C grades though high school math. My 7th grader will take 8th grade math (out of a 3-year middle school math sequence) before he takes algebra in 9th. I have a few reasons for this: 1) I want him to be absolutely solid in prealgebra so that algebra is a gentle step up. It's not needed for every kid, but it is for this one. 2) I want him to have more grounding in geometry, which our program is strong in 3) I want him to be older/more mature/more disciplined before algebra 4) I want him to be ready for a rigorous algebra program, not a light one My younger son will surely accelerate through elementary math, and while it's possible that he will "skip" a level of math, I would rather he complete a prealgebra sequence before starting algebra. He's doing MIF a year ahead, and they have a full 3-year middle school math series too. So even if he did just a level a year, he could finish 8th grade MIF in 7th and then start algebra. If he goes at a faster pace (which I think is quite likely) then he could do it sooner. But I would not move him straight to algebra after 6th grade math like some here do unless he NEEDED that. The majority of kids don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 With math, the adage "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it!" really comes into play. CLE is a fine math program and if your child is doing well, then I would just keep with it. As someone mentioned upstream, it's best to start algebra when your student is ready for it. For some kids, that's 8th grade. Some take algebra 1 in 9th grade. Most colleges seem to expect students to get thru at least Algebra 2 in high school, but that varies depending on major and school. I agree with the other posters - mastery of algebra is more important that which program you use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You'll get different opinions on this topic, because there are different "norms" around the country. Some people believe their children will be at a serious disadvantage when it comes time to apply for college if they don't have algebra in 8th or even 7th grade. My opinion is: if your child is brilliant and driven enough to seek admission to top-tier schools that are that picky about which math class the kid took in 9th grade, then your child was probably ready in 8th or could probably accelerate through math and get through more math in high school even if they do algebra in 9th. My own school district, in fact state, does NOT push algebra in 8th grade. Algebra in 9th is absolutely fine and they aren't considered behind at all. Our state universities aren't selective enough to care. There is no reason for me to feel in any rush. My belief is that your child should take algebra when he/she will be successful at it. No sooner. Plenty of kids in PS have been tracked into algebra in 8th (or 7th) grade, but then struggle to keep up from that point forward. Some kids can do it - those who mastered pre-algebra topics and/or those who learn math easily enough to fill in gaps along the way. But it is no advantage to take algebra in 8th grade and then get B/C grades though high school math. My 7th grader will take 8th grade math (out of a 3-year middle school math sequence) before he takes algebra in 9th. I have a few reasons for this: 1) I want him to be absolutely solid in prealgebra so that algebra is a gentle step up. It's not needed for every kid, but it is for this one. 2) I want him to have more grounding in geometry, which our program is strong in 3) I want him to be older/more mature/more disciplined before algebra 4) I want him to be ready for a rigorous algebra program, not a light one My younger son will surely accelerate through elementary math, and while it's possible that he will "skip" a level of math, I would rather he complete a prealgebra sequence before starting algebra. He's doing MIF a year ahead, and they have a full 3-year middle school math series too. So even if he did just a level a year, he could finish 8th grade MIF in 7th and then start algebra. If he goes at a faster pace (which I think is quite likely) then he could do it sooner. But I would not move him straight to algebra after 6th grade math like some here do unless he NEEDED that. The majority of kids don't. :iagree: You need to go at the pace that works best for your child. If they are really mathy then making them wait until 9th for Algebra I wouldn't make any sense. If they are struggling and you force them into Algebra I before they are ready doesn't make any sense either. If your child wants to go into a stem major, then hitting Algebra I in 7th or 8th grade, IF they are ready, could be advantageous since that would give them time to get through more of the higher High School maths. But it isn't set in stone that they MUST do that. If your child is working through math but does not yet have basics really solid, it usually works better to slow down a bit, really solidify those basics, really get Pre-Algebra down solid and then tackle Algebra I and higher. At that point, if they have an excellent foundation, than they could probably even accelerate math to get more of the higher High School math exposure. But not if they don't have the basics. As for CLE itself, as far as I can tell, it is a really solid program with a good Pre-Algebra (level 700/800) but is weak in conceptual word problems. That can easily be supplemented with Math in Focus or Singapore word problem workbooks or other resources. ETA, agree that if it is working, stick with what is working. Even CLE Algebra looks good. You might add in something like Hands on Equations and like I mentioned maybe something else for conceptual word problems but if your child and you are doing well with CLE, just progress at the pace that works for your child. If they are catching on fast, move them through faster. If they need a slower pace, slow it down. FWIW, DD is a bit behind but when she looked at options she decided to stick with CLE and just work through summers and some weekends since she GETS CLE. She succeeds with CLE and understands what she is doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 CLE only goes through Algebra 1 (we're using it now). After that, they use Life Pacs, I think. I agree that Life Pacs aren't rigorous, but CLE (their sunrise editions) are quite rigorous and I know many a mathy, STEM kid who used them. I do think they need *more* in terms of word problems, but that's it, imo. Engineer hubby likes CLE because it looks a lot like the traditional math he used in Catholic school; we just add more word problems. OP - if your child needs, or wants, to get to Calculus in high school they would need to take algebra in 8th grade, unless they are able to double up one year. The only reason to start algebra in 8th grade or earlier is if your student is ready to start it then. Many are, and having them do another year of basic arithmetic is boring and makes them think math is no fun. 😊 In our school district it is not unusual to have the advanced math students do algebra in 7th grade.The sequence generally looks like this, regardless of what year you get to Algebra:AlgebraGeometryAlgebra 2 w/ TrigPre-calculusCalculusOf course there is a lot of other math that students can do if they get through all that (statistics, linear algebra, differential equations.)I haven't used CLE, but I think it only goes through Algebra 2/Trigonometry and it is not necessarily a rigorous program. I'm not saying it isn't a good fit for some kids, but it isn't necessarily the strongest program for a kid who has STEM interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kessepha Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I have always been absolutely committed to my kids starting Algebra I in 8th grade so that they are not held back in sciences that have math requirements and so that they have time to take Calculus in high school. Until this year. My eldest is a senior, taking Calculus, and despite years of struggles in math through 8th grade, he loves it and wants to major in math in college. And guess what, the college suggests that they start in Calculus I even if they have AP credit to excuse them from it. So after all these years of getting ahead in Calculus, he starts in Calculus I next year. Now of course he'll have an advantage in Calc I. But he's no more ready for it or ahead of the class than he'd be if he took Pre-Calc this year. And the extra year doesn't matter in the sciences, though two would. So if your kid isn't ready for 8th grade Algebra I... DO NOT SWEAT IT! Disclaimer, I'm a total hypocrite, because I am still pushing kid #2 into 8th Grade Algebra I. But that's because he is my serious STEM kid and because if he is allowed to slip into "review" mode he will totally stop learning anything. And kid #3 is math advanced. See, hypocrite. But really, if your kid isn't ready, it isn't worth the fuss. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thank you all, this was helpful. :thumbup1: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I would appreciate some input on this. We have been using CLE math, which I love. My son is not a real 'mathy' kid though. We work hard at math every day, and he has a solid "B". I have a lot of questions: I know there's a lot of people who have their kids doing Algebra I in 8th grade - but I'm not sure why? If your child does Algegra I in 8th grade, then what does the rest of high school math look like? Is this really only a trajectory for kids who really excel in math and plan to pursue math/science fields? And: When does everyone switch away from CLE? What do you switch to? I really love the order and structure of CLE, is there something similar? (I loathe Singapore Math.) Thank you for bearing with me! There isn't a good reason to push a kid to start algebra if he's still mastering skills like fractions and decimals. On the other hand a student won't run out of math if they start algebra in 8th. It could looks like this. 8 algebra 1 9 geometry 10 algebra 2 11 precalculus and trig 12 calculus or statistics For a student I thereafter in math or science that would give them an intro to calc before going to faster paced college calculus course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I have always been absolutely committed to my kids starting Algebra I in 8th grade so that they are not held back in sciences that have math requirements and so that they have time to take Calculus in high school. Until this year. My eldest is a senior, taking Calculus, and despite years of struggles in math through 8th grade, he loves it and wants to major in math in college. And guess what, the college suggests that they start in Calculus I even if they have AP credit to excuse them from it. So after all these years of getting ahead in Calculus, he starts in Calculus I next year. Now of course he'll have an advantage in Calc I. But he's no more ready for it or ahead of the class than he'd be if he took Pre-Calc this year. And the extra year doesn't matter in the sciences, though two would. So if your kid isn't ready for 8th grade Algebra I... DO NOT SWEAT IT! Disclaimer, I'm a total hypocrite, because I am still pushing kid #2 into 8th Grade Algebra I. But that's because he is my serious STEM kid and because if he is allowed to slip into "review" mode he will totally stop learning anything. And kid #3 is math advanced. See, hypocrite. But really, if your kid isn't ready, it isn't worth the fuss. Many colleges are reluctant to allow students to test out of fundamental courses, especially math and science in their degree requirements. The explanation I've seen is that too many students get into calc 2 or advanced chem and struggle. On the other hand I don't think a student should shy away from the advanced work in high school if they are ready for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 My dd is not trying to reach high goals for math, lol, so my plans are to start algebra 1 in 9th grade. She has just finished MUS zeta, and has just started MUS prealgebra. I have heard MUS is light on the algebra so my plan is to have her do another prealgebra next year with a different textbook. We will see how it goes. My schedule will look something like this. 8th - Prealgebra 9th - Algebra 1 10th - Geometry 11th -Business math / Consumer math / Stewardship ( one of these ) 12th - Algebra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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