Elements of Mathematics or AOPS or both???

[tsuria]

Seeking your expert advice on the abovementioned for a mathy 9yo currently working through AOPS and doing very well. We then learned about Elements of Mathematics hence the following questions:

 

1. How do these compare with each other or is there no comparison at all?

 

2. If they are distinct from each other and would help enrich his math experience/journey, I'm considering adding EOM to AOPS. Would this be too much?

 

3. We're planning to work on it at home ~ in your opinion is that workable/helpful or is he better off at a center?

 

4. If you might have anything at all to add on this matter, please do not hesitate.

 

Please help. Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Targhee]

No experience, just observations, but EOM looks as different from AoPS in approach as AoPS is from Saxon in approach. The same can be said of sequence of material. This isn't to say that any of the above are better/best but just that they are different.

[JoJosMom]

I don't know how much help I'll be, but since no one else has jumped in, I'll give you my two cents.  First off, a caveat.  My student is 12-year-old DD.  She's not a super genius; just a bright kid.  Our schedule is 30 minutes of "fun" math and then 45 minutes of "regular" math. She is in 7th grade and has been doing EMF as her "fun" math for warm-up since September.  We have been doing AoPS Algebra since around that time.  We worked through the book to Chapter 8 and now she's taking the online class.

 

1) I agree with the poster above that the two programs are completely different.  EMF I think is like a parallel track. (Frankly, I have nothing to do with it and totally don't get it.  DD is a conceptual thinker. Me, just give me the algorithm.)

 

2) Obviously, I think they go together without overwhelming.  But I would suggest time limits.  :001_smile:

 

3) We work at home and DD is pretty much on her own.  These are not my kind of programs.  Both have support available.  With EMF, DD has found the help forum to be quite responsive.  AoPS is also responsive, but we are enrolled in a class.

 

4)  WRT the EMF program, I would suggest that you have your child take the aptitude test.  DD scored in the "high potential" range and has scored mostly A- grades, with one B and two As.  (She's taking the seventh course now.)  I have read that the program may be difficult for very young students who may be quite advanced in math, but not as advanced in reading.  Obviously, I do not know your child, but the aptitude test might help you figure it out.

 

I can tell you that my child would in no way have been able to handle either program at 9, so I don't know if my information will be of any use to you.  I have noticed, however, that there is a dearth of information about EMF, so I thought I'd at least try. HTH.

 

 

[maize]

I haven't heard of Elements of Mathematics, would someone mind posting a link?

[JoJosMom]

Elements of Mathematics:  Foundations

[tsuria]

Thanks for your response JoJosMom! A little backstory ~ DS is 9 as you already know and is on AOPS and doing very well on his own. I have been in touch with the director of a program that uses the EOM and upon my explanation about my DS to cut a long story short ~ she immediately responded with "he, albeit a little young for the program under normal circumstances, is ready for the program." So I think we will do them concurrently. Just wanted to check here to see if anyone is doing them that way before we dived in. We'll give it a try. :-)

[mom2bee]

I have no experience with the course to add, but here is every WTM thread that I have on the Elements of Mathematics curriculum.

 

EoM Foundations

Can Anyone Compare EoM and AoPS

EoM online not working???

IMACS vs. AMY - A Math Thread

IMACS - Elementary

EoM Updates?

How Are You Guys Liking EoM?

Elements of Mathematics

 

 

There maybe some over lap, but there are a few more threads.

Threads that come up with the tag "eimacs"

Threads that come up with the tag "imac"

Threads that come up with the "megss"

Threads that come up with the tag "elements of mathematics"

 

[tsuria]

Thank you so much mom2bee! You're most helpful. Checking the threads out now. :-)

[Brad S]

I don't know anything about Elements of Math, but AoPS is top notch and challenging.  If DC is doing well, esp at age 9, and enjoying it, I'd personally be reluctant to double up with another program.  Is DC asking for more math?  If not, it seems to me it might risk making math unpleasant or slowing down progress with the excellent AoPS program -- for what?  I can see asking a few questions from another program, as much for reading comprehension as math, but I don't understand the benefit of adding this second program to AoPS for a nine year old.  I don't recall seeing which AoPS book DC is working on; that might help people comment.  Best wishes with whatever you decide.

[Mozwo]

My DS 10 ( turned 10 past weekend) also started AOPS at 9 and has been doing well with the AOPS class ( Pre-Algebra) , finds it fun and does a bit of Alcumus as well. I have been thinking of EOM for him as well since his older brother (DS 12) has done AOPS and EOM together last summer. I have hesitated to sign him up given his age.  Having gone through 4 of EOM courses with my older son, I feel that it might be too much math for my younger one and might confuse him given EOM has a very different sequence of courses than AOPS. We are using the extra time he has on other things like programming and robotics. 

[tsuria]

Brad S and Mozwo ~ Thank you so much for your input. I will certainly be taking your thoughts into consideration as well. :-)

 

[tsuria]

Another related question ~ when you sign up for EOM on their website, do they specify a time limit for completion e.g. 3 months for the first or something like that and does one get a textbook or is it all online only? I'm assuming there is a tutor assigned?? Please help.

 

Thanks again.

[Clear Creek]

If I could afford it, my oldest would do both.

 

You have three months to complete a class, and all the classes are self-paced. There is no textbook; it is all interactive exercises...the child can go back and review previous instruction at any time, though. There are no tutors, but there is a message board and students are encouraged to post their questions there and try to answer their fellow students' questions.

[JoJosMom]

EMF is totally online; there is no book and no tutor.  There is, however, a help forum.  Students may post questions, which may be answered by other students but are also answered by staff.  We have found the help forums to be very responsive (DD just told me that her questions are generally answered within 30-45 minutes by staff members.  I'm impressed! We are in the Pacific Time Zone, BTW. EDIT:  And she does this first thing in the morning here, so it's business hours in Florida.)

 

As Clear Creek said, you have three months to complete each EMF class.  If your student completes the class within the three months, the remaining time is added to your account.  In effect, the student can "bank" the time, but you do have to pay for each class.  DD has taken about a month to complete each class, working approximately 30 minutes per school day.  She's banked a lot of time! :001_smile:

 

 

[SeaConquest]

What ages did your kids start the program, and after which level of math?

[MamaSprout]

Seeking your expert advice on the abovementioned for a mathy 9yo currently working through AOPS and doing very well. We then learned about Elements of Mathematics hence the following questions:

 

1. How do these compare with each other or is there no comparison at all?

 

2. If they are distinct from each other and would help enrich his math experience/journey, I'm considering adding EOM to AOPS. Would this be too much?

 

3. We're planning to work on it at home ~ in your opinion is that workable/helpful or is he better off at a center?

 

4. If you might have anything at all to add on this matter, please do not hesitate.

 

Please help. Thanks in advance!

I haven't read the thread, but I have been told that the Elements program really doesn't support kids under 10. My dd scored in the high potential to succeed range at 9, and another mom waved me off it.

[quark]

I haven't read the thread, but I have been told that the Elements program really doesn't support kids under 10. My dd scored in the high potential to succeed range at 9, and another mom waved me off it.

 

That sounds odd to me. My experience with eIMACS is that they are very supportive of younger, gifted kids seeking challenge (but we haven't tried EMF, only one of the advanced math logic courses). Could it be due to these prerequisites on the site (bolded = mine)?

 

 

Step 1: Prerequisites

The prerequisites are as follows:

• Your child should be of middle school age. Learn more »
• Your child must be motivated, independent, and talented.
• He or she must also have excellent reading skills as students will need to comprehend text explanations of mathematical concepts.
• Before starting EMF, your child must have completed all of elementary school math, and must be fluent in arithmetic operations of multiple-digit numbers, including long division.

EMF courses are designed for students with a high level of intellectual maturity. To complete EMF in a self-study manner, students will need solid executive functioning skills as well. To help parents determine their child's level of readiness, IMACS created a free online aptitude test for prospective students to take prior to enrolling in the first course.

We encourage parents to take advantage of this test because a child's experience with EMF will be far more positive and effective if courses are taken when he or she is ready.

 

If someone with a slightly younger child is very sure their kid will succeed, they can always try to write to Terry Kaufman directly to explain. I am not sure if he will agree but I know he is very easy to work with (mine did the uni-level advanced course at age 10 for example and I have heard of some others doing it slightly younger...this tells me they are quite flexible with age).

[MamaSprout]

That sounds odd to me. My experience with eIMACS is that they are very supportive of younger, gifted kids seeking challenge (but we haven't tried EMF, only one of the advanced math logic courses). Could it be due to these prerequisites on the site (bolded = mine)?

 

 

 

If someone with a slightly younger child is very sure their kid will succeed, they can always try to write to Terry Kaufman directly to explain. I am not sure if he will agree but I know he is very easy to work with (mine did the uni-level advanced course at age 10 for example and I have heard of some others doing it slightly younger...this tells me they are quite flexible with age).

 

In a nutshell, she signed him up, and when he had a problem, they refused to offer any assistance because he was under 10, citing maturity. I really don't know the details, but she did give me the name of a musical math tutor I think will be a good fit.  :thumbup1:  I think I probably should have gone ahead a tried Elements with dd b/c we were in a tough to fit spot at the time. At this point, I'm in "it's not broken" mode, so I'm not sure if we'll look at it again.

 

I mean this in the nicest way possible, Quark, but your dc is quite an outlier, especially in math. My PG, just turning 10 year old kiddo is happily doing high school math... and won't be doing anything at the University level any time soon. (Unless she really takes a leap- which she's done before. I think it's unlikely once they hit Algebra, though).

 

I think it is important, even on the Accelerated Learner Board, for other families to understand that. It might save some clutching of chests. :scared:

[quark]

In a nutshell, she signed him up, and when he had a problem, they refused to offer any assistance because he was under 10, citing maturity. I really don't know the details, but she did give me the name of a musical math tutor I think will be a good fit.  :thumbup1:  I think I probably should have gone ahead a tried Elements with dd b/c we were in a tough to fit spot at the time. At this point, I'm in "it's not broken" mode, so I'm not sure if we'll look at it again.

 

I mean this in the nicest way possible, Quark, but your dc is quite an outlier, especially in math. My PG, just turning 10 year old kiddo is happily doing high school math... and won't be doing anything at the University level any time soon. (Unless she really takes a leap- which she's done before. I think it's unlikely once they hit Algebra, though).

 

I think it is important, even on the Accelerated Learner Board, for other families to understand that. It might save some clutching of chests. :scared:

 

I apologize if I haven't been understanding enough. I think I know which musical math tutor that is because I've written to you about him on another list. :001_smile: He is awesome but like everything else it will depend on the family-tutor chemistry.

 

Good luck with what you choose and sorry to derail the thread.

 

[MamaSprout]

I apologize if I haven't been understanding enough. I think I know which musical math tutor that is because I've written to you about him on another list. :001_smile: He is awesome but like everything else it will depend on the family-tutor chemistry.

 

Good luck with what you choose and sorry to derail the thread.

 

 

You didn't derail!!! I think what you added is very important. I felt maybe a little context could be added though.