Possible dyslexic?

[Hannahs4]

Okay. I am just realizing he may not just be a late bloomer.

My son is 8 with an August birthday. We have been working on reading since he was five. He CAN read. But he does not enjoy it, it is obviously a strain for him, and he has had slow progress compared with all my others. He can read the Magic Tree House books by himself, but not without incentives, and a few helps with words. He can tell me what he has read. he reads slowly, sometime leaves off endings, but usually can sound out a word. he also has a lot of difficulty reading strange font or others handwriting. It just takes a lot of concentration. He can not spell well at all.

Math... He gets concepts, but needed to use manipulatives for a long time. He has to work very hard to memorize...he can count by 2's, 3's, 5's, 10's, and knows how to do thst to answer multiplication questions, but still cannot tell you what 3 x 4 is out of his head.

Writing.. Soo many reversals. The letters are getting better but the numbers are bad. He can be thinking of a certain number in his head and write a completely different one on the paper. He cannot recognize his number reversals without comparing each number to a written guide. Writing is laborious, and he doesn't consistantly start in the same spot to write letters.

He hasn't memorized the months, and often confuses days of the week. He can memorize songs, movies, and is excellent with building, athletic, gross motor skills.

But...... He really has great phonemic awareness and no speech delay or issues whatsoever. He can read and sound out nonsense words no problem. I tested him at just barely 30 WPM, with no slow down between phonetic and holistic section on the MWIA test. He missed 10 combined on the section, and when he spelled the words he missed he read them correctly.

 

So....... What do I do? Test? Any curriculums? I am unsure if I should dive into something like Barton, because of the emphasis placed on phonemic awareness which he does okay on.

 

Wow that was long. If you get all the way through this, thanks for any advice!

[wapiti]

Have you already ruled out developmental vision issues with a covd optometrist?

[Hannahs4]

No I haven't. I know my insurance won't cover it... Do you think it is worthwhile? Barton makes it sound like there is no such thing. But the actual act of reading is a struggle for him. I know he has no regular vision problems.

[OneStepAtATime]

You need evaluations.  You really, really need evaluations.  Talk to your pediatrician if you think they have a clue.  Ask for local neuropsychologists or edupsychologists.  If you shop around you may find that there are differences in prices and what they will offer.  You need someone that will give you the most bang for your buck.  Testing will give you not only specific areas of weakness but also strengths.

 

Also, as wapiti said, if you haven't already I would absolutely get an evaluation through a COVD (developmental optometrist) for an eye exam.  There are vision issues that are not tied to visual acuity so may not show up on a standard eye exam.  Many standard optometrists don't even know how to test for those issues.  

 

For instance my son has perfect eye sight.  20/15.  But he also has heterophoria.  One eye tracks slightly out of alignment.  Not noticeable unless you know what to look for.  It makes reading fatiguing.  It also means that it is harder for him to line things up correctly.  He had issues for a long time but his eye exams through a standard optometrist and once through an ophthalmologist never caught what was really wrong.  I had to take him to a developmental optometrist, who caught the problem in minutes.

[OneStepAtATime]

There are many dyslexics whose issues were blamed on vision issues, when it wasn't vision at all.  That is why a lot of people get really hot under the collar at the suggestion of vision issues with a child that might have dyslexia.  The two are not the same.  However, a child can have both dyslexia AND a developmental vision issue.  Or they may have just one or just the other.  Or they may have other issues that mimic the things you would see with someone with dyslexia.

 

Therefore, the best option is to get a normal vision screening with a developmental optometrist so it only costs what a normal eye exam would cost but ASK for a preliminary developmental vision screening to be done during that standard eye exam.  If it looks like a fulblown test is warranted, then o.k. If not, then you have at least ruled this out as a possible part of the problem.  :)

[Hannahs4]

I was afraid of this. Can you tell what tests are specifically helpful? We have a lot of options in our area, so I am going to price shop. But I am unsure if it could just be the reading specialistst or a neurophysc. For what it's worth, he has no add tendencies, and is my easiest kid. We have a COVD also here, so I will set that up. I didn't want to get off track though and not get to the root of the problem.

[Hannahs4]

That is great tip for the COVD exam, thank you!

[OneStepAtATime]

I was afraid of this. Can you tell what tests are specifically helpful? We have a lot of options in our area, so I am going to price shop. But I am unsure if it could just be the reading specialistst or a neurophysc. For what it's worth, he has no add tendencies, and is my easiest kid. We have a COVD also here, so I will set that up. I didn't want to get off track though and not get to the root of the problem.

I would suggest looking at other posts on this board and reading through those for any regarding testing.  It might give you a better feel for the process and what other people found helpful/not helpful.

 

Also, I would not go with a reading specialist unless that is all you can afford or they are able to do comprehensive assessments, not just a test of reading abilities.  

 

Honesty, I would go with a neuropsych if you can, since they should be looking at a broader range of possibilities for underlying issues and possible areas of strength, too.  In other words, while reading is an issue, there may be many reasons and those reasons can spill into other areas of life.  Getting more details can help you more effectively target those areas of weakness while also tapping into areas of strength, areas you might not even be aware exist because the areas of weakness have been masking them. I would research, though.  Get feedback from others if possible.  Not all doctors are created equal.  :)

 

 Does that make much sense?  Sorry, typing on the fly.  :)

[Hannahs4]

Onestepatatime; Absolutely. Thanks for the giant nudge in the right direction. I will research the neurophysch options here. Believe me I have spent a ton of time over the past month reading here and everywhere about dyslexia, and trying to fit my son into some category. I just don't get why he seems to have good phonemic awareness when everything else points to dyslexia. I have a very DIY personality and hate the thought of labels. But I am realizing I need a specific path for him.

thank you so much for your help.

[wapiti]

It's all so individual; evals are the only way to answer the question for sure.  My gut feeling based on your OP would be vision with the possibility of some fine motor stuff mixed in.

[OneStepAtATime]

Onestepatatime; Absolutely. Thanks for the giant nudge in the right direction. I will research the neurophysch options here. Believe me I have spent a ton of time over the past month reading here and everywhere about dyslexia, and trying to fit my son into some category. I just don't get why he seems to have good phonemic awareness when everything else points to dyslexia. I have a very DIY personality and hate the thought of labels. But I am realizing I need a specific path for him.

thank you so much for your help.

I 100% understand what you are saying.  I waited until my DD was in 4th grade before finally having some tests done through the school and honestly they were useless and sent us in the wrong direction.  I then went outside the school and got private testing in 5th grade. Night and Day.  That was such a freeing and eye opening experience.  The tests literally took all day but DD came out feeling great and we finally had solid answers, dyslexia being one of them.  Didn't mean suddenly life was glass smooth but at least we had a better idea of what was happening and how to address those issues, at least in general terms.  :)

 

But even after DD was assessed I did not get DS assessed for several months.  I knew he had issues but they didn't seem the same.  After circumstances sort of forced the issue, we took him to the same place.  Well, he is dyslexic, too, but he had different underlying strengths and weaknesses so he presented differently.  :)  

 

I guarantee that if we had had a third child and they were struggling at all I would not wait until upper elementary to get them tested.  Lesson learned.   :laugh:

[Hannahs4]

Thank you Wapiti. It does help! I will definitely get the COVD exam. And other Evals. Gulp.

[Hannahs4]

I 100% understand what you are saying. I waited until my DD was in 4th grade before finally having some tests done through the school and honestly they were useless and sent us in the wrong direction. I then went outside the school and got private testing in 5th grade. Night and Day. That was such a freeing and eye opening experience. The tests literally took all day but DD came out feeling great and we finally had solid answers, dyslexia being one of them. Didn't mean suddenly life was glass smooth but at least we had a better idea of what was happening and how to address those issues, at least in general terms. :)

 

But even after DD was assessed I did not get DS assessed for several months. I knew he had issues but they didn't seem the same. After circumstances sort of forced the issue, we took him to the same place. Well, he is dyslexic, too, but he had different underlying strengths and weaknesses so he presented differently. :)

 

I guarantee that if we had had a third child and they were struggling at all I would not wait until upper elementary to get them tested. Lesson learned. :laugh:

Thank you! That is what I am realizing, that I really need to do something NOW. I really thought he was just going to grow out of everything, and so I kept putting it off. (He's a boy! Haha). So far none of my other kids have struggled, but I am pretty sure my husband is slightly dyslexic, and I KNOW my dad is.

Does having all the information change the way you school? Did you see improvements? Probably getting ahead of myself, but thanks for the help.☺ï¸

[Amethyst Piano]

I would also encourage you to get evals now. I didn't and regret it. So many people said oh, he's a boy, he'll grow out of it, he's just on his own timetable, he seems so smart, he's just fine, etc. I tried to remediate what I thought was the problem but just ended up confusing the matter probably. Then when I did get them, it was through a children's hospital that had such a backlog of kids waiting to be seen that it took a year (plus several months to even get an initial call back for making the appointment to begin with) and then they drastically cut back the amount of testing they did to try to get kids in faster. I should have done my homework better...they didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. It took almost two years for me to get up the courage/fortitude/money to try again with full neuropsych and then another wait...only 5-6 months this time.

 

If I could have a do-over, I would have called a lot sooner to begin with, probably 4 years sooner, and I would have used that wait time from scheduling the appointment to the appt day to really research what kind of info I was going to get out of it. Then hopefully I would have canceled that children's hospital appointment and realized I needed better. Lol. But now I'm here with a teen boy who doesn't want anything to do with therapies and tutoring and such. But he clearly needs help. Things got slowly worse not better.

 

So, I'd encourage you to do the evals. Don't take my path; I can't recommend it.

[Hannahs4]

Wow, thanks Amethyst for sharing your experience. I am trying to figure out where to get him tested. Maybe I will contact our homeschool groups for recommendations. I am afraid of spending time and money and getting no help! Thanks for the further motivation to get this done.

[FairProspects]

If it helps, two of my kids "looked" dyslexic when they were in early elementary, but they are not.  Both have good phonemic awareness.  One had vision issues (tracking, convergence) that needed VT in first grade.  The other didn't have a vision problem, but was even more visual-spatial than his sister.  I had the COVD do a full evaluation anyway; she said that he's a "dyslexic processor" and pointed me toward the Eide's book, The Dyslexic Advantage (re: dyslexic strengths), even though he's not dyslexic.  They both have a bit of a language-processing glitch (difficulty with inferences and reading comprehension) and a history of speech delay and sensory issues.

 

It's all so individual; evals are the only way to answer the question for sure.  My gut feeling based on your OP would be vision with the possibility of some fine motor stuff mixed in.

 

 

Onestepatatime; Absolutely. Thanks for the giant nudge in the right direction. I will research the neurophysch options here. Believe me I have spent a ton of time over the past month reading here and everywhere about dyslexia, and trying to fit my son into some category. I just don't get why he seems to have good phonemic awareness when everything else points to dyslexia. I have a very DIY personality and hate the thought of labels. But I am realizing I need a specific path for him.

thank you so much for your help.

 

 

Yes, but my oldest dyslexic also has fabulous phonemic awareness and is indeed dyslexic. He is a 2E stealth dyslexic and he very much needs dyslexic supports, accomodations, and targeted language work. That is exactly why you need the correct evals to tease apart these pieces and focus your remediation work. The same symptom taken in conjunction with information from a whole bunch of different tests may result in different diagnoses and suggestions for progress forward.

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes, but my oldest dyslexic also has fabulous phonemic awareness and is indeed dyslexic. He is a 2E stealth dyslexic and he very much needs dyslexic supports, accomodations, and targeted language work. That is exactly why you need the correct evals to tease apart these pieces and focus your remediation work. The same symptom taken in conjunction with information from a whole bunch of different tests may result in different diagnoses and suggestions for progress forward.

:laugh:  What she said....

[OneStepAtATime]

I would also encourage you to get evals now. I didn't and regret it. So many people said oh, he's a boy, he'll grow out of it, he's just on his own timetable, he seems so smart, he's just fine, etc. I tried to remediate what I thought was the problem but just ended up confusing the matter probably. Then when I did get them, it was through a children's hospital that had such a backlog of kids waiting to be seen that it took a year (plus several months to even get an initial call back for making the appointment to begin with) and then they drastically cut back the amount of testing they did to try to get kids in faster. I should have done my homework better...they didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. It took almost two years for me to get up the courage/fortitude/money to try again with full neuropsych and then another wait...only 5-6 months this time.

 

If I could have a do-over, I would have called a lot sooner to begin with, probably 4 years sooner, and I would have used that wait time from scheduling the appointment to the appt day to really research what kind of info I was going to get out of it. Then hopefully I would have canceled that children's hospital appointment and realized I needed better. Lol. But now I'm here with a teen boy who doesn't want anything to do with therapies and tutoring and such. But he clearly needs help. Things got slowly worse not better.

 

So, I'd encourage you to do the evals. Don't take my path; I can't recommend it.

Thanks for sharing this.  and  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

No I haven't. I know my insurance won't cover it... Do you think it is worthwhile? Barton makes it sound like there is no such thing. But the actual act of reading is a struggle for him. I know he has no regular vision problems.

It would take a developmental optometrist to screen to see if there is a vision explanation.  Vision does NOT explain the language issues (months of the year, etc.), so that means no matter what you have more going on.  The most conservative thing is to get just a regular exam with the developmental optometrist and ask them to *screen* for developmental stuff.  Some docs will do VT for visual processing, even if there are no issues with convergence, etc., and of course dyslexics can have issues with visual processing.  

 

Since people are forever surprised by evals, it's really hard to guess and know you're right.  We've gotten referred for a *3rd* set of psych evals, and let's just say psych 3 is going beyond what psych 1 said, way beyond.  I don't know your dc and what all you're seeing.  I'll just toss out that dyslexia would not be the *only* possible explanation.  No matter what, it deserves an explanation.  And like Amethyst I can say that I waited WAY too long with my older dc.  2nd time around I didn't make that mistake.  ;)  Getting the perfect psych?  That's harder.  But waiting, that's the easy problem to solve.  

 

What you might do, since there's a 60% overlap between ADHD and dyslexia, is go ahead and do some reading on behavioral stuff.  Read on EF (executive function), ADHD, spectrum.  Read more broadly than you anticipate needing.  A really general book like The Mislabeled Child can be good.  It can broaden your mind to begin to notice behaviors or symptoms you're not yet catching.  

[Hannahs4]

Thank you all for your encouragement and wisdom in this area! I will share how it goes.

OhE, thanks for the book recommendation, I will look into that and try to read more broadly.

Hannah

[geodob]

Hi Hannah, 

His reversal of letters and numbers, raises a question about how much of difficulties are related to this?

Also you wrote that he cannot recognize his number reversals.

This could be because he is still seeing letters and numbers in reverse?
When we look at letters/ numbers, the image that is formed on the back of the eye is reversed.

Because of the way that light passes through the lens of the eye.

At birth, a baby sees the world in reverse, and within about 2 months the brain typically develops the ability to correct the image of the world and see it correctly.

 

But it goes through another stage of development, to see symbols/ letters/ numbers correctly.

Where their can be a delay in the process?

So that they still see letters/ numbers in reverse.

Then when they write letters/ numbers, they write them as they see them?

Which is in reverse.

 

So that the question is whether might be his issue?

Though perhaps you could do some simple tests with him?

Ask him to write some words, but instead get him to write the letters in reverse, and right to left, instead of left to right?

Observe whether he finds this easier, and makes less spelling mistakes?

Also try holding a page of text next to a mirror, and observe how well he can read the text in the mirror?

 

So perhaps you could try this, and observe how he goes with it?

[Hannahs4]

Interesting, thanks geodob, I will give it a try!

Also, I just spoke with a neurophysc who will get us in in three weeks. He was very helpful. It is through a university so the cost is much less than the private testing.. I am hoping this is a good choice. It sounds incredibly comprehensive.

[AHASRADA]

Interesting, thanks geodob, I will give it a try!

Also, I just spoke with a neurophysc who will get us in in three weeks. He was very helpful. It is through a university so the cost is much less than the private testing.. I am hoping this is a good choice. It sounds incredibly comprehensive.

This is the route we took, and it was very comprehensive, very helpful, and affordable. The fact that PhD students are doing the testing as part of their training and being graded on it, means they are very thorough. The entire case was overseen by their professor, so someone with more experience was reviewing and signing off on everything.

 

Our dc's testing was spread out over the course of 6-8 weeks or so, for 1-1 1/2 hours each time. This worked much better than a marathon testing sesson of a full day, so I would suggest asking for the testing to be broken up if they don't already plan to do so.

 

This testing should definitely point you in the right direction, and you can always shell out for a pro down the road if you decide you need it (students need to be retested periodically to create a paper trail in order to receive accommodations on the SATs and in college, so you'll need to retest at least once more in a few years anyway).

 

I was in the same boat with dd. I tried teaching her to read in K, it didn't stick, and decided to set it aside for a while. I used OPGTR in grade 1, and she just couldn't remember multi-letter phonograms (like "th"). I started to worry, but everyone said kids learn at their own pace, bla, bla, so I waited. There were other signs too, including several you have listed about your ds. In grade 2, I was chatting with a mom during the kids' swim lessons, and discovered that her ds was dyslexic. The more we chatted over the weeks, the more I realized that was likely what we were dealing with. She sent me to Susan Barton's website to go through the list of symptoms, and I was blown away. My acquaintance used the Wilson program herself, since Barton was so expensive, so I went ahead and bought Wilson, even without a diagnosis. It took a lot of self-training and prep work, but we completed the entire program and it has made a world of difference. Any OG-based program should work.

 

You have a whole new path ahead of you: learning how to remediate to the best of his ability, uncovering and playing to his strengths, and working on technological accommodations as he gets older. Take a deep breath, and know that you are doing the best thing for your son, you are on the right path :)

[Hannahs4]

Thanks Asmaa, that is helpful to know. The physc I talked with on the phone said they generally don't do more than 2 hours at a time and sometimes less depending on how the child is handling it. They may take four or more sessions. I thought that sounded like a good approach. I am looking at an OG program right now.. But am struggling with where to start him 😊. Thanks for your encouragement.

 

Also, geodob, I tried asking him to write backwards, he is just as bad.. It's like 50/ 50 with numbers, because he just doesn't know which way they go. Writing in a mirror also wasn't easier. I am pretty sure it's vision memory/ directionality.. That stuff doesn't stick.

[OneStepAtATime]

What OG program?  Honestly, you might consider starting from the beginning.  If it is clicking he can probably advance at a pretty fast clip.

 

For instance, with Barton we ran into a snag during the summer last year and were unable to do hardly anything for a couple of months since I was out of town.  When I came back the kids, who had been struggling with the level ANYWAY, were floundering.  I started over at the beginning of the level.  They moved much more quickly, much more efficiently and effectively the second time through.

 

Someone on this board I think (I can't recall who) had done one OG program about halfway through then switched to Barton and just started over from the beginning.  The child did very well with just starting over and things began clicking that had not been clicking before.  Maybe that was also just a better fitting program, who knows?  

 

Anyway, depending on what program you are looking at you honestly might just start over.  Is there a placement test of any kind?