Could Your Child Read Before Starting School?

[SKL]

Well think of it this way.  Because parents like me work with our kids at home (willingly), there is less pressure on their teachers to force the issue of reading at school.  When my kids were in K-2, a lot of their school time was spent moving around.  I feel this is a much better arrangement, where they get the benefit of one-on-one with their parent, and the benefit or more age-appropriate motor and social activities during school.  If I were instead wagging my finger at their teacher because of my kid's slow reading progress, what would be different at school?  Probably more seat work that is not well-aligned to my kid's individual needs.

 

Also, my kids enjoy working with me at home (in moderation).  And they also like going to school, but for different reasons.

Edited April 6, 2016 by SKL

[Bluegoat]

Well think of it this way.  Because parents like me work with our kids at home (willingly), there is less pressure on their teachers to force the issue of reading at school.  When my kids were in K-2, a lot of their school time was spent moving around.  I feel this is a much better arrangement, where they get the benefit of one-on-one with their parent, and the benefit or more age-appropriate motor and social activities during school.  If I were instead wagging my finger at their teacher because of my kid's slow reading progress, what would be different at school?  Probably more seat work that is not well-aligned to my kid's individual needs.

 

Also, my kids enjoy working with me at home (in moderation).  And they also like going to school, but for different reasons.

 

That's great if you liked it and it worked for your situation.

 

But it isn't all that helpful as far as designing programs and policy.

 

Schools still need to have some kind of expectations on things like - when do we expect kids to be able to read, or will we send homework home on a regular basis,  how should we use our time during the school day, and what other developmental needs do kids have to fit in their day besides school?

[pkbab5]

Then read them. Please.  I have consistantly said schools can do well at teaching kids to read.  I think it is disturbing that many are not doing it well, and something we should all be concerned about.  If I thought they could not do well, I would not advocate changing their methods, I would advocate another way of teaching kids to read that doesn't involve the school.

 

If you don't agree with the other poster, above, that schools can only be a marginal second choice for teaching reading, address it with her.  My response that many parents who believe that choose to homeschool rather than have kids spend hours doing useless work is a reasonable response, and as it happens also to be true - people who believe significant portions of the school work are by nature useless tend not to send their kids unless they have to for other reasons.

 

If you think the school's work is useful, then that doesn't really apply to you.

 

You are correct, I don't think my child is spending hours doing useless work in school just because she already knows how to read.  The small portion of time they spent in Kindergarten on learning to read was a good review, and all of the other things she did in Kindergarten and is now doing in first grade are definitely not a waste of time.  She has daily recess and PE, foreign language 3 times a week, art once a week, music once a week where they get to play real instruments of all sorts, hands-on science lab once a week where they do experiments, computer lab once a week, mini "research projects" about things like ladybugs and pumpkins, and on and on.  Learning reading is only a small piece of 1, maybe 2 years of school.  My daughter also told me that last year in Kindergarten during reading instruction time, the kids who already knew how to read were allowed to cuddle up in the bean bag corner and read, or go to the library, if they found the lesson too boring.  In first grade, everyone in her class can read, and they are doing basic language arts, grammar, and spelling.

 

I taught my kids to read before Kindergarten, and now I afterschool them in math (because they use Everyday Math in school which I think is okay, but not nearly enough practice to be really good at math).  But school is more than just learning how to read and getting ahead in math.  I don't want to make them miss out on all the rest just because I think I can teach phonics and math better.  So they learn a bit at home, review it at school, and learn the rest of the stuff at school.

[pkbab5]

But in the course of normal kids learning to read, I would expect that the five or six ours, five days a week, that my 5-7 year old spends in an academic setting should be enough. 

 

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with that.  I think that a normal kid learning to read does much better in about 10-15 minutes a day, every day, starting at age 3 or 4 with learning letters, and continuing for at least 2-3 years (learning letter sounds, learning beginning letter sounds, ending letter sounds, vowel sounds, decoding words, harder phonograms, practice for reading fluency, reading for comprehension, etc).  I think the main problem with public school is that they don't start until 5 and then expect it all to be done in 1 year.  Some kids are able to do that without a problem, but I just don't think that is ideal.  Most kids take longer.  That's why preschool (or learning at home with a parent) is so important, and why in places like Finland almost all of the kids go to some sort of preschool.

 

To me what it comes down to is probably the appropriate amount of time for kids that age to be doing seat-work.  If I am going to have to do seat-work at home, because the school is inadequate, or because it is the best way to teach the skill, I think that needs to be considered in terms of how much of that work the child is doing.  I consider two hours of sitting for a six or seven year old about right, maybe even a lot for some.  Schools typically keep kids for much longer than that, and while it isn't all seat-work, and some is due to inefficiency, they can spend a lot of time sitting.  If I spend a half our of seat work at home, then I want that half hour during school hours to be spent doing something besides seat work.

 

Why is reading instruction considered seat work?  Neither of my kids ever did any reading instruction, either at home or at school, while sitting at a desk.  They learned to write at a desk, which overlapped a bit with reading instruction, but not much.  Learning letters and sounds is done with manipulatives.  We learned decoding and phonograms with videos which played while we played, games on the ipad or computer, activities on the whiteboard or using a stepboard.  Reading practice is usually done laying on the bed, couch, or floor.  And sometimes in a tent.  :)

 

If you are teaching reading with the kid sitting in a desk, you're doing it wrong, imo.  

Edited April 28, 2016 by pkbab5

[ReadingMama1214]

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with that. I think that a normal kid learning to read does much better in about 10-15 minutes a day, every day, starting at age 3 or 4 with learning letters, and continuing for at least 2-3 years (learning letter sounds, learning beginning letter sounds, ending letter sounds, vowel sounds, decoding words, harder phonograms, practice for reading fluency, reading for comprehension, etc). I think the main problem with public school is that they don't start until 5 and then expect it all to be done in 1 year. Some kids are able to do that without a problem, but I just don't think that is ideal. Most kids take longer. That's why preschool (or learning at home with a parent) is so important, and why in places like Finland almost all of the kids go to some sort of preschool.

 

 

Why is reading instruction considered seat work? Neither of my kids ever did any reading instruction, either at home or at school, while sitting at a desk. They learned to write at a desk, which overlapped a bit with reading instruction, but not much. Learning letters and sounds is done with manipulatives. We learned decoding and phonograms with videos which played while we played, games on the ipad or computer, activities on the whiteboard or using a stepboard. Reading practice is usually done laying on the bed, couch, or floor. And sometimes in a tent. :)

 

If you are teaching reading with the kid sitting in a desk, you're doing it wrong, imo.

Don't most public schools, even private, teach reading sitting in desks? Yes, montessori schools may teach it with manipulatives, but I was under the impression that most public school Kindergarteners learn sitting in a desk. My daughter is in preschool. They do not learn to read there. They do learn about letters and phonological awareness skills. They do use manipulatives. But , I thought K was different at most schools.

 

My daughter can read while in preschool. She'll attend a school that has differentiated learning for math and reading. she could attend a first grade reading class if needed in K.

[vonfirmath]

Don't most public schools, even private, teach reading sitting in desks? Yes, montessori schools may teach it with manipulatives, but I was under the impression that most public school Kindergarteners learn sitting in a desk. My daughter is in preschool. They do not learn to read there. They do learn about letters and phonological awareness skills. They do use manipulatives. But , I thought K was different at most schools.

 

My daughter can read while in preschool. She'll attend a school that has differentiated learning for math and reading. she could attend a first grade reading class if needed in K.

 

They had no desks in my son's K class.  They had tables, but no assigned seats at the tables.  Reading was often done in circles. I don't know if they even had chairs. They may have been sitting on the carpet.  But they had reading circles that were assigned based on the circle having approximately the same reading level. 

 

(And based on the questions asked in K registration, my suspicion is that they tried to group kids in classes based on parent-declared reading level as well.  So they could go faster over phonics in classes where the students were already reading to some extent and work more on letters in classes where the students are not there yet)

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by vonfirmath

[SKL]

I haven't been in a lot of KG classrooms lately, but the ones I've been in always had a special matted area of the floor where kids congregated for any group lessons that didn't require writing.  They also had various alternative seating around the room and stations where the kids would stand to play / work.

 

In my experience, kids move around frequently all day in KG and primary school.  I hear stories of kids being chained to their desks, but I haven't seen it.

[vonfirmath]

I haven't been in a lot of KG classrooms lately, but the ones I've been in always had a special matted area of the floor where kids congregated for any group lessons that didn't require writing.  They also had various alternative seating around the room and stations where the kids would stand to play / work.

 

In my experience, kids move around frequently all day in KG and primary school.  I hear stories of kids being chained to their desks, but I haven't seen it.

 

Laugh. I'll find out next year. My youngest goes to K in the fall.  As I recall, DS didn't have a desk of his own until 2nd grade. And they STILL did a lot of moving around in the classroom.

[ReadingMama1214]

They had no desks in my son's K class. They had tables, but no assigned seats at the tables. Reading was often done in circles. I don't know if they even had chairs. They may have been sitting on the carpet. But they had reading circles that were assigned based on the circle having approximately the same reading level.

 

(And based on the questions asked in K registration, my suspicion is that they tried to group kids in classes based on parent-declared reading level as well. So they could go faster over phonics in classes where the students were already reading to some extent and work more on letters in classes where the students are not there yet)

I guess you are right. I think I frequently see more tables than I do individual desks.

[ReadingMama1214]

Laugh. I'll find out next year. My youngest goes to K in the fall. As I recall, DS didn't have a desk of his own until 2nd grade. And they STILL did a lot of moving around in the classroom.

I do remember getting a desk in first. I was really excited about it.

 

I haven't toured the school we plan to send dd to. There are several charters locally that I do know use desks in K. But, these are the ones that push early academics and extended day/year learning

[SKL]

There is sometimes such a disconnect between the Afterschooling Folder and the rest of this forum. You won't find many people over on the Pre-K board writing about how pre-school is so important.

 

Hmm, I've seen many posters say they homeschooled preschool / pre-K / K.  If it wasn't important then why do anything purposeful (other than self-care and character building) during those years?

 

In fact, why is there a pre-K board at all if those folks don't consider preschool important?

 

I don't believe preschool is make-or-break, but I do believe it helps a lot if children are familiar with the building blocks of language (spoken and written) before they are KG age.  From what I've read on TWTM forums, most homeschoolers would agree.

Edited April 29, 2016 by SKL

[73349]

I could (but also spoke early and was later labeled gifted, FWIW); DH could not. DS could not, even though he'd learned his letters at 2, had attended preschool from 2.5 to 4.5 and we were working on phonics at home. (He is now slightly above grade level.) He needed the time.

 

Funny story, actually: DH's parents had sold him on how awesome kindergarten was going to be, because the teacher would teach him to read! So he came home the first day, looking just morose. What was wrong? He was there all day and no one had taught him to read. He felt there was no point in going back. :D

 

As an early reader who stayed 2-4 years above grade level, I still enjoyed school from K through 2nd or 3rd. It was around 4th grade when school began to be demoralizingly tedious. I was an underachiever through 8th grade (except in French, which started in 7th), perking up again in high school.

 

If I ran a school, the children would be grouped in small, flexible, ability-based pods of 3-5 kids per adult to work on skills for a short time each day. Required homework would begin in fifth grade.

[shawthorne44]

Hmm, I've seen many posters say they homeschooled preschool / pre-K / K.  If it wasn't important then why do anything purposeful (other than self-care and character building) during those years?

 

In fact, why is there a pre-K board at all if those folks don't consider preschool important?

 

I don't believe preschool is make-or-break, but I do believe it helps a lot if children are familiar with the building blocks of language (spoken and written) before they are KG age.  From what I've read on TWTM forums, most homeschoolers would agree.

 

Some of us are just darn eager to get started.   Sometimes the eagerness is in the child, something in the parent (or both).  

 

Personally I think that even if nothing is learned, there is the message that learning is important and fun inherent in preschool done at home.  Probably in B&M too.   

[ReadingMama1214]

I could (but also spoke early and was later labeled gifted, FWIW); DH could not. DS could not, even though he'd learned his letters at 2, had attended preschool from 2.5 to 4.5 and we were working on phonics at home. (He is now slightly above grade level.) He needed the time.

 

Funny story, actually: DH's parents had sold him on how awesome kindergarten was going to be, because the teacher would teach him to read! So he came home the first day, looking just morose. What was wrong? He was there all day and no one had taught him to read. He felt there was no point in going back. :D

 

As an early reader who stayed 2-4 years above grade level, I still enjoyed school from K through 2nd or 3rd. It was around 4th grade when school began to be demoralizingly tedious. I was an underachiever through 8th grade (except in French, which started in 7th), perking up again in high school.

 

If I ran a school, the children would be grouped in small, flexible, ability-based pods of 3-5 kids per adult to work on skills for a short time each day. Required homework would begin in fifth grade.

This cracks me up. We had a similar experience with preschool and dd. I worked it up so much and was all about "you're going to have fun and learn so much. You'll learn about letters and numbers and it will be fun!" She came home on the first day and was really bummed that they didn't do letters and numbers!