Whereneverever Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 My 6th grader in the next fall has completed CLE 500 series and will spend the rest of the school year and summer working on Khan Academy. She's doing a bunch of random things on there, including pre-Algebra. What are some choices for middle school math? Would you stick with CLE? When do people switch to Dolciani or others? Has anyone used CLE all the way through high school? Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Is there a reason why you would stop using CLE? I think that if you are planning to continue on in math, then it might make the most sense to just go ahead and order the next level of CLE and begin that while still using Khanacademy and then re-evaluate your math options at summers end. I'm not familiar with CLE Math, but I think some people compact 7 and 8 into one year so you might get another 1.5-2 years out of CLE and then switch (or not) for Algebra up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 She worked through it faster than anticipated. She finished all of the 500 level, I just wasn't sure if it was better to use 600 or switch to another program now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I would just move right on into the next level of CLE. Do level 600 along with Khan academy through the rest of spring and summer. Level 700 and 800, as previously mentioned, are often combined into a year/year and a half for what, as I understand it, is a really robust prealgebra. If CLE is working I would just stay put and keep moving through. maybe add some additional more challenging word problems at some point on the side but its a good program. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 We had a terrible experience with CLE 500 (kiddo bombed the state standardized test - below proficient - and was totally unprepared for 6th grade math despite doing "great" with CLE). I first tried doing Math in Focus grade 5 but the problem solving was so far over his head since he hadn't built up the skills through years of MIF. We used Holt Course 1 for 6th grade and it was a BIG jump in both content and problem solving, but we toiled through it. He is doing Course 2 this year for 7th grade and is doing great with a firm foundation (finally!). He was able to get by in CLE without mastering the material, because every time it spiraled there was some review and it was enough of a crutch. With a more sequential, topical program he had to really put the pieces together. We do cumulative reviews after every chapter and that really helps. Holt middle school math books are cheap on Amazon and I get the one-stop planner CD-ROM and TM. Videos can be purchased or watched online, and the sequence goes through high school math. It's what Thinkwell is based off of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I would go through 600. At that point you can easily switch to another publisher for PreA, if you wish. Or you can continue on with CLE. My dd went through 500 and 600 very quickly. She switched to a different program for PreA (AoPS) at that point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ds just finished up CLE 500 and is beginning 600. Unless I see some other reason not to do so, I am going to be "speeding" it up and do some over the summer as well as try to finish 700 by the end of next year. I have a math degree, so I teach it myself. Dd used CLE math during her middle school years and did well with her high school math courses (Lial and BJU) despite math not being her strong subject. She did very well on her standardized tests, and she scored well on the math section of the ACT after only Alg 1, Geometry, and Alg 2. CLE did give her a good foundation in math operations which I think necessary to be able to focus on understanding algebra without being bogged down by the math in it. I would love to switch ds to the Lial series for Algebra, but I am concerned about the tests for college being changed to align with CC. Traditional algebra courses, such as Lial, don't include the statistics materials covered in CC, but I could just supplement those standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 I haven't even planned high school yet. Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirstenhill Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 We are most likely going to stick with CLE through 600s and then switch after that. I know we could try to do 700/800 in a year but I am not sure I want to deal with the headache of trying to figure out what to skip/combine. We are going to finish 500s right at the end of the year, and then DD will do Fred over the summer (she has done about half of fractions, so we will finish that book then go into the decimals book). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Ok, I just gave her the Aops prealgebra pretest and she got them all right. Now I'm even more confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Well, that seems like a pretty good place to be. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Would you do AOPS prealgebra in 6th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Sure, why not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yep. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Thanks! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Just jumping in... Rebecca will finish CLE 600 this year. I bought Saxon Algebra 1/2 for 7th. I didn't want two years of pre-a and wasn't sure how to properly condense CLE 700/800. Also, CLE doesn't have Sunrise through high school, so I wanted to go ahead and switch. That said, wtg to your DD for acing the aops pretest! You inspired me to look at it and to my shock, Rebecca could easily pass it! I never would have considered aops. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey, that's great news! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I would caution some here as I've heard AoPS 'pre-tests' are notoriously easy relative to AoPS itself which is 'never' easy. In fact it is one of the most challenging math programs available starting with a lot of Algebraic reasoning in Pre-A. ds13 used AoPS Intro to Algebra and it was quite challenging by design. The reason I caution you is that sometimes parents get a bit overzealous only to discover their child is not ready for the level of rigor which AoPS presents. For example, expect to have them wrestle with single problems for over an hour at times. Learning to struggle with really difficult problems and persevere over time is a skill which needs to be developed. That's par for the course. It wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. Sometimes challenges like this are fun for bright kids, especially if they love math. You could potentially introduce it gradually along with another program to gain a better sense of fit. Take a look at the sample chapters provided on their website. AoPS Alcumus is also free and something good to use as gauge as well. In the case of the OP, has your dd really mastered primary mathematics yet? Do you feel confident that you can skip the last year of CLE 600 including the topics covered? I recommend at least looking that over the S&S on page 40 before making that decision: https://www.clp.org/documents/5748/original/2015-2016_Elementary_Scope_and_Sequence.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Looking at her Khan Academy profile she's completed most of Khan through 8th grade as well as a large chunk of their prealgebra. I'm not sure how that compares or whatnot. It looks like she's poking around on the high school stuff there, too. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 I would caution some here as I've heard AoPS 'pre-tests' are notoriously easy relative to AoPS itself which is 'never' easy. In fact it is one of the most challenging math programs available starting with a lot of Algebraic reasoning in Pre-A. ds13 used AoPS Intro to Algebra and it was quite challenging by design. The reason I caution you is that sometimes parents get a bit overzealous only to discover their child is not ready for the level of rigor which AoPS presents. For example, expect to have them wrestle with single problems for over an hour at times. Learning to struggle with really difficult problems and persevere over time is a skill which needs to be developed. That's par for the course. It wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. Sometimes challenges like this are fun for bright kids, especially if they love math. You could potentially introduce it gradually along with another program to gain a better sense of fit. Take a look at the sample chapters provided on their website. AoPS Alcumus is also free and something good to use as gauge as well. In the case of the OP, has your dd really mastered primary mathematics yet? Do you feel confident that you can skip the last year of CLE 600 including the topics covered? I recommend at least looking that over the S&S on page 40 before making that decision: https://www.clp.org/documents/5748/original/2015-2016_Elementary_Scope_and_Sequence.pdf I answered this above, not sure why it didn't quote you the first time! Sorry. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Looking at her Khan Academy profile she's completed most of Khan through 8th grade as well as a large chunk of their prealgebra. I'm not sure how that compares or whatnot. It looks like she's poking around on the high school stuff there, too. :p Based on her other additional work she may be ready for Pre-Algebra. Although we've used Khan quite a bit in a more targeted fashion I'm not sure about the completeness of their S&S. I've also not seen the level of rigor in the questions which other challenging programs have like AoPS, Dolciani, TabletClass, etc... Regarding your original question, there are quite a few pre-A options available with a wide spectrum of difficulty levels and greater or lessor scope. In fact, I think Pre-A curriculum varies more widely in just about every aspect than any other math level. Some focus more on review of elementary math with a little bit of 'easy' algebraic reasoning thrown in. While others dive right into meaty Algebra topics like solving linear equations. See one example of this here: http://aops-cdn.artofproblemsolving.com/products/prealgebra/exc2.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Based on her other additional work she may be ready for Pre-Algebra. Although we've used Khan quite a bit in a more targeted fashion I not sure about the completeness of their S&S. I've also not seen the level of rigor in the questions which other challenging programs have like AoPS, Dolciani, TabletClass, etc... Regarding your original question, there are quite a few pre-A options available with a wide spectrum of difficulty levels and greater or lessor scope. In fact, I think Pre-A curriculum varies more widely in just about every aspect than any other math level. Some focus more on review of elementary math with a little bit of 'easy' algebraic reasoning thrown in. While others dive right into meaty Algebra topics like solving linear equations. See one example of this here: http://aops-cdn.artofproblemsolving.com/products/prealgebra/exc2.pdf I think that looks likely to be right up her alley. Thanks!! I'm going to keep encouraging her to work through Khan since she seems to love it and order this to see how she does. We can take it at her pace. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 OK, we sat down with that section and read it and she worked through it without a lot of drama, so I'm even more excited that this could be a good fit. Thanks for linking that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 OK, we sat down with that section and read it and she worked through it without a lot of drama, so I'm even more excited that this could be a good fit. Thanks for linking that! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 OK, we sat down with that section and read it and she worked through it without a lot of drama, so I'm even more excited that this could be a good fit. Thanks for linking that! If that is the case then buying the AoPS pre-A book may be worth the investment. The fact that she could go through a portion of that chapter without a lot of drama is a very promising indicator. At the very least you could use AoPS along with something a bit more gentle if it gets overwhelming by itself. And don't forget to show her these excellent accompanying videos by the author: http://artofproblemsolving.com/videos/prealgebra We've used the Pre-A videos even though we didn't use the Pre-A text. ds13 really likes how engaging they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Is there any other way to know if it'd be overwhelming other than taking the pretest on the site, working through the excepts, and previewing the videos? So far I haven't seen any indication this'd be too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There is Alcumus, look under Resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I saw Alcumus, is that not more of a companion with the text vs a pretest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's a bank of problems that will give you a feel for AoPS style problems, which i thought is what you were asking for. We did the first half of alcumus prealgebra independently of the text (I don't know that I would recommend this, but alcumus is used as a supplement only by several). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Is there any other way to know if it'd be overwhelming other than taking the pretest on the site, working through the excepts, and previewing the videos? So far I haven't seen any indication this'd be too much. I don't think there really is. Your dd sounds well prepared (through CLE 5 and PreA+ in Khan Academy), she passed the pre-test easily, and you both like the looks of the sample. It sounds like a good fit for her. My dd had gone through CLE 605 and MM 6 when we started AoPS, so she started from very close to the same place as your dd. It has been a fabulous fit for my dd. I do work through it with my dd, and she needed quite a bit of hand holding when we started. As long as you are prepared for the possibility that your dd might need the same, you should be fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I would try the AoPS. My daughter started it two years ago. We did Dolciani concurrently for the first 6 chapters or so, planning to do them both over two years. Eventually, she decided she like AoPS much better, and we dropped Dolciani. It has been our experience, and I've heard the same thing from others, that the first few chapters take the longest and are the hardest. If she likes it at all, I would persevere through those chapters. I do not think my Ds10 (also going into 6th) is ready for AoPS next year. He has trouble focusing. We will try Jousting Armadillos with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I don't think there really is. Your dd sounds well prepared (through CLE 5 and PreA+ in Khan Academy), she passed the pre-test easily, and you both like the looks of the sample. It sounds like a good fit for her. My dd had gone through CLE 605 and MM 6 when we started AoPS, so she started from very close to the same place as your dd. It has been a fabulous fit for my dd. I do work through it with my dd, and she needed quite a bit of hand holding when we started. As long as you are prepared for the possibility that your dd might need the same, you should be fine. I would try the AoPS. My daughter started it two years ago. We did Dolciani concurrently for the first 6 chapters or so, planning to do them both over two years. Eventually, she decided she like AoPS much better, and we dropped Dolciani. It has been our experience, and I've heard the same thing from others, that the first few chapters take the longest and are the hardest. If she likes it at all, I would persevere through those chapters. I do not think my Ds10 (also going into 6th) is ready for AoPS next year. He has trouble focusing. We will try Jousting Armadillos with him. Thank you for sharing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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