handwriting, spelling, math, memory difficulties; Not dyslexia?

[diokos]

My 10 yo is struggling in these areas.  His hand hurts when he writes, writing is very slow and laborious, cursive nearly impossible; spelling is...not good :crying: .  Copywork is So. Difficult. I. Cannot. Describe it.  Math is difficult for him.  We progress very slowly as he just can't seem to catch new concepts.  Memorizing multiplication facts...I think he has them, and then all of a sudden he just doesn't know it.  Really stumped with what columns numbers belong in, which column to carry in, when to regroup with subtraction; will try to figure ridiculous amounts of numbers in his head so that he does not have to write them.  Memory-still not solid on knowing his own phone number or address!  I have heard the words, "Is it tomorrow today" come from his mouth.  He was probably 8 or 9 before he got the meaning of yesterday, today, or tomorrow.  Struggled for quite a while to learn the months of the year.  He's currently in vision therapy (which is working!) due to poor reading comprehension, extreme fatigue when reading, skipping or guessing at words, lots of headaches, complaining of blurry words, or them looking one way one time and different when he looks back.  He says all of this is much better or gone since starting his VT.  He's gone from a pretty decent reader to a very strong one. 

 

I look for answers to his struggles and dyslexia pops up over and over.  I go down lists of warning signs and see red flags flashing all over the place.  His vision therapist assures me it's not dyslexia.  He's too strong a reader.  She tells me her OT friend could help him?  Anyone else have suggestions?  Does it sound like dyslexia (or related dysgraphia+dyscalculia?)  Or is there another explanation?  I don't want to fork out thousands of dollars for testing only to be told I'm just being paranoid or making up problems for him.  And, since testing is probably the only way we'll know for sure, where do I get it affordably (but not at the ps, since our state law would require them to provide aka force special education services on us if they provide initial evals.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with kand. And yes it sounds like very possibly dysgraphia and dysalculia, too. You need an evaluation through a neuropsychologist if at all possible. Someone with a good reputation for not only a thorough examination but one that also explains the results well and is willing to walk you through it line by line. That type of evaluation should give you not only specific weaknesses but also hidden strengths that may be untapped or masked by the weaknesses and vice a versa.

[scoutingmom]

Sounds like Stealth Dyslexia to me - dyslexia sometimes show up more in spelling than reading - along with all the other symptoms you mentioned.... the dysgraphia and dyscalcula. With some gifted children they are able to learn to read on-level but it shows up in these other things.

 

No idea on how to approach testing- we haven't been able to get ours tested yet.

[displace]

Another vote that he probably needs to be tested. Maybe dysgraphia, dyslexia. A lot of learning disabilities come together. Find a Neuropsych. It will takes months to find one, schedule appts, check insurance benefits, etc. in the meantime read maybe the mislabeled child by Drs. Eide and Eide.

 

OT are the ones to help if there is dysgraphia. An initial OT Eval who specializes in school writing should be used. Not generic OT (IMHO) - no offense intended to any OT here. OTs are great in general but finding a pediatric one who is experienced with dysgraphia is worth it if possible.

[MomatHWTK]

There could be one of several explanations.  Processing speed, ADD, any number of LDs can cause difficulty.  You need to get an appointment to start narrowing it down.  :grouphug:

[VinNY]

Get him evaluated...believe me it will actually  cause less stress in the long run. Definitely start working with an OT to get some base scores and an outside opinion. See if your insurance will cover a SLP evaluation ...check out his language processing.  Ideally save up and get a full neuropsych or look into your local children's hospital for evals.   My child's underlying issues are different than my girlfriend's son but yet they both struggle with math and writing etc. 

 

 

 

Affordability: A thought, maybe see a developmental pediatrician first through insurance. You may get a dx of dyspraxia or dys something.. and I was told here in my neck of the woods that a NP eval would be covered by insurance. 

 

I ended up using an NP outside my insurance.

 

 

 

[VinNY]

If you don't mind my asking ..what state forces homeschoolers to use special ed services?

[PeterPan]

You need the OT eval for the hand pain.  No matter what the DSM diagnosis, he probably needs OT.  

 

You're going to need a neuropsych eval, so you might as well go ahead and start looking for who you want to do it.  It's merely a question of timing/when, not whether.  Clearly *something* is going on, and OT alone isn't going to explain it.  Look for a neuropsych who specializes in Dyslexia and developmental issues, and you'll get what you need. 

 

How much longer does your VT doc anticipate for his VT?  My dd went through a period or relearning after VT.  In your list, the most striking thing to me is the language processing stuff.  If you were doing those things through auditory (singing the days of the week, etc.), then the developmental vision issues should not have affected them.  No one here can tell you for certain what the outcome of the evals will be, but it's clear with the degree of language processing issues you're describing that he *should* have full evals to see what's going on.  It *will* turn up stuff and you *will* be glad you did them.

 

As far as the ps, you might make sure you're understanding correctly the procedure.  Our state is not like that at all, but that's because they are not required to provide services to homeschoolers.  I'm guessing it's written in law.  Call your state dept. of ed and ask what the law is for districts doing evaluations for IEPs and providing services for homeschoolers.  Don't assume your ps has explained it to you correctly.  Get the info directly from the dept. of ed.

 

As far as whether the ps could do the evals and get everything, depends on what's going on.  If you have money to go private, you'll get more thorough results possibly.  However by the time you do an SLP eval for the language processing, OT eval, etc. on top of the psych, that's going to be a lot of money.  You could consider a mix, doing your private psych and letting the ps do the OT and SLP and their psych testing to complete the picture.  Or just go private.  Gives you options.  :)

 

Definitely, definitely, definitely get evals.  Your eye doc is valid in giving her take on things related to vision, but hand pain, language processing, these are outside her field and NOTHING she is doing in VT is changing them.  You WILL find things with the evals and you WILL be glad you got them.  And since you're getting them a couple years before I got my dd's evals (that changed our lives and how we worked together), you're doing way better than I did.  You'll be SO glad you did it now and didn't wait.  Waiting will only leave you with regret that you didn't do it sooner.  The evals are inevitable, and if you get good ones *with someone who is known for giving helpful feedback on what to DO with the results* it may be a watershed moment for you, totally altering the direction of your homeschool for the better.

 

Go for it, be brave, and buck the out of line eye doc.  You're right.  :)

[mommymonster]

Hi! I have your son's twin. It was a bit odd, as I wrote a relatively similar post about my DS a few months ago, after we had him evaluated by a neuropsych. It's here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/535676-so-impairment-in-written-function/ 

 

I was *sure* my DS had stealth dyslexia. I still think he does, but our neuropsych said he reads too well for the diagnosis to fit. Instead, he has an "Impairment in Written Function," combined with what his VT guy terms a "profound vision processing issue," AND sllloooooowwww processing (below 5th percentile).  Even though DS has finished VT and done four months of Writing 8s, he still has frequent reversals. (DS was also diagnosed with anxiety, but has been doing really well with that). 

 

We do a few things that have helped and might help your DS:

• Realize your DS might be a VSL learner, BUT he has vision processing issues. It is totally strange (in my head), but helps to explain some quirks. 
• Realize that VT takes time and that it might make sense to do more in terms of games, audio books (SOTW), documentaries, and hands on stuff while going through VT. We still spend a ton of time at history museums. Start a business to help him learn math. There is nothing like profits and losses to motivate a beaten-down, burned-out learner. 
• For math, use 1/2 inch ruled graph paper. It helps to line up the math problems.
• For sore hands, the business idea could be making bread (this recipe launched my son's summer business of bread making: http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread).We also put DS in charge of locking and unlocking all doors (a skill he had not learned), liberally gifted Lego sets, and required all cookies to be stirred by hand. We also broke up writing-intensive lessons (writing, then listen to SOTW, then spelling, then science... whatever, just give the hand a bit of a rest). Scribing helps, as well.
• Don't take the crazy comments too much to heart. I used to just cringe when DS went off on "is it today, tomorrow, or yesterday?" Eh, they are thinking about their universe. Today is tomorrow -- it's all on what day you ask the question. We have calendars and clocks everywhere in hopes of anchoring him to space and time. 

In any case, do consider the neuropsych eval. Even if I don't agree wholeheartedly with the results, it has given food for thought. We had ours done at a local university, and it was literally $3,500 LESS than the next quote I received. 

 

Edited to add: Math Mammoth is a train-wreck for DS, even after VT. It's just too busy on a page. I write is problems into a graph paper notebook. Not saying that MM is either good or bad, just make sure that whatever you're using has lots of white space. Manipulatives are essential, and we use them for WAY longer than I would have thought we should need them.

 

 

 

[mommymonster]

For writing, I've totally sold out. He's passionate about Star Wars and Nerf blasters. For writing, he's doing a 2nd grade Star Wars writing book (off Amazon.com). It's a start. He writes a few sentences and draws a picture. And you know what, he LOVES it. Right now, I'm just trying to get him interested/open to writing. Also, we took pictures of every one of his blessed Nerf guns, printed them out and taped them to 8.5x11 sheets of paper. Now he's writing "reviews" of each blaster. His writing voice is so much more varied and passionate when it comes to things he's passionate about...  :thumbup1:

[Heathermomster]

Yeah, you need evals.

Here is a link for graph paper.
http://customgraph.com/SG/piart.php?art=654

For DD's hand pain, we wheelbarrow walked and completed tons of exercises using an exercise ball. DD saw an OT for 6 weeks, maybe. She did OT homework 5 days per week.

Maybe explore Developmental Math. CBD sells it.

[Guest ResIpsa]

I've just finished reading Raising Girls with ADHD, and all of those things are mentioned as potentially related to ADHD-- problems with organization, working memory, handwriting, etc. Maybe that is a route worth looking into?

[luvmygirls]

Please consider the possibility of dyspraxia. Very often, it is mistaken for other disorders. My dd is dyspraxic, and it took a very long time to obtain a proper diagnosis. OT was incredibly helpful. A good place to start gathering information would be the Dyspraxia USA website. You can pm me if you need help or more information.