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Where did YEC begin??


Moxie
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"A small minority"? Huh. I don't think so. Of all the Protestants I knew for 30 years, I can say without fear of contradiction that all believed in YE. I attended mostly Assemblies of God and Calvary Chapels, but I also had many friends who attended non-denom groups. I have no doubt that all of the pastors would have said they believed in "young earth," although that particular term is itself quite young; challenging how old the earth is has not been as important as whether or not the earth was created in a literal six days or that it evolved over millions of years from slime on a rock.

I attended Baptist churches when I was growing up and I can say without fear of contradiction that they did NOT believe in YE. I am absolutely sure of that because my pastor was my dad. I was one of those dinosaur obsessed kids when I was little and he indulged it by buying me all kinds of books and stuff that said "millions and millions of years ago". He is not the only one.

 

ETA: I have also had the experience of people saying "what the heck are you talking about?" when asked about YE. One of those is an elder in his church (reformed)

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I always thought that as a widely accepted belief it came from the Bishop Ussher guy--in fact, we have that fold-out world history timeline that looks like this (even though we are not YEC here):

http://www.triviumpursuit.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Wall-Chart-4.jpg

 

*shrug*  I'm SURE lots of folks were YEC before then, but he's always the one who comes to mind when people say they believe a specific 6000 or whatever years of age for the earth.

 

Bishop Ussher's Chronology

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I was raised to believe in Creation and to believe that anything having to do with evolution was incompatible and therefore false. I remember the ACE paces used at the Christian school I attended discussed creationist apologetics.

Not all OEC believe in evolution, though some do.

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"Young earth" is a very new term. Before someone came up with that, the emphasis was on the fact that God created the earth, not that it evolved out of nothing. I'm sure my daughters would say they never heard of "young earth," either, and that would be because no one I knew used that term. However, they were always taught that God created the earth in six days. We never discussed how old the earth actually was.

 

Back in the 70s when I became a Christian, it was Creation vs Evolution (or more particularly, Special Creation). I don't know when "Young Earth" vs "Old Earth" became a thing. I have my suspicions, though...

 

Well, I really didn't mean the terminology. I meant the idea that God created the earth in a literal 6 days. All the Christians I knew growing up believed that the idea of a day in Genesis could be interpreted to mean longer periods of time. I certainly didn't know anyone who thought the earth was only 6 thousand years old.

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Not all OEC believe in evolution, though some do.

In my upbringing, there was no debate over how old the earth could be, because biblical genealogies only allow for so many generations. It was simply dismissed as, "We don't know all the answers yet, but we have the Bible, so we go with that."

 

I do remember asking my dad when dinosaurs lived, though. He essentially gave me what is now called The Gap Theory - that all the inexplicable stuff is squished in there between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.

 

It never did sit well with me, even then. I was probably around ten years old. I recall thinking the first verse said the earth was "formless and void," so...that precludes life at all, let alone habitats. But it was still a lot of years before I really delved into different theories that try to meld the biblical account with modern science.

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I had no idea that anyone believed the earth was literally 6000 years old until I got involved in the homeschooling community. My head spun around the first time I saw a homeschool "science" book with a picture of a man with his pet dinosaur. I believed in creation growing up, but I always understood the creation story to be an allegory and I thought that the "days" represented eras. I thought the debate was between those that believed the Earth was created by God versus those that believed the Earth appeared spontaneously in a Big Bang.

 

I know that "young earth creationism" is a newer term, but I guess it's needed to distinguish between those who believe in a literal 6-day creation as a salvation issue versus those who accept the age of the earth or don't think it really matters. I still don't understand the constant harping on the age of the Earth, but I will not use curriculum from religious publishers or join religious homeschool groups or co-ops. We are fortunate to have a large inclusive homeschool group locally where all are welcome.

 

So while the idea of a literal 6-day creation may not be new, making it the cornerstone of Christian faith certainly is.

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I had no idea that anyone believed the earth was literally 6000 years old until I got involved in the homeschooling community. My head spun around the first time I saw a homeschool "science" book with a picture of a man with his pet dinosaur. I believed in creation growing up, but I always understood the creation story to be an allegory and I thought that the "days" represented eras. I thought the debate was between those that believed the Earth was created by God versus those that believed the Earth appeared spontaneously in a Big Bang.

 

I know that "young earth creationism" is a newer term, but I guess it's needed to distinguish between those who believe in a literal 6-day creation as a salvation issue versus those who accept the age of the earth or don't think it really matters. I still don't understand the constant harping on the age of the Earth, but I will not use curriculum from religious publishers or join religious homeschool groups or co-ops. We are fortunate to have a large inclusive homeschool group locally where all are welcome.

 

So while the idea of a literal 6-day creation may not be new, making it the cornerstone of Christian faith certainly is.

You have correctly identified the problem (or rather, the "new" YE thought), as I see it. A belief in YE creationism vs either spontaneous/Big Bang origins or OE creationism is now commonly regarded a mark of a "true" believer. That's why it's now a more divisive thing than it's been in the past.

 

There have always been differing schools of thought about the age of the earth, even among Christians, but the whole "maybe you're not *really* a Christian" if you don't believe in YE creationism seems to have sprung up within my lifetime.

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I guess if you believe earth was created by God for people then the earth must have been created the same time as people. I met my first creationist at university but I go to church with quite a few now and have some people believe talks with my kids. I suspect for most of human existance the majority of people have been too busy surviving to worry about such things.

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Have certain religions always believed in a young earth?

My understanding is that within the Eastern Orthodox Church, there have always been and still are people who believe in a young earth, and people who believe in an old earth. There are writings from saints who lived many centuries before Darwin and had no understanding of evolution who nonetheless said that the days of creation were not literal 24 hour days. And there were others who clearly believed that they were literal 24 hour days. The church never declared dogma one way or the other, because as long as you believe that God is the creator of the universe, it is not a salvation issue whether you believe he did it in 6 days or 15 billion years.

 

 

When did you first hear about YEC? Were you raised with it?

I wasn't raised EOC, I'm a convert. And yes, I was raised YEC. I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma, and this may have changed since then, but back in the 80's and early 90's the public schools there taught nothing about evolution. They didn't teach creation either, because they weren't allowed, so they were just silent on the issue! So the first time I learned the basic facts about evolution was a college biology class. It took me about 5 minutes to see that everything I had been taught about evolution from my parents' religion was just one straw-man piled on another. It ignited a passionate interest, and I ended up getting my degree in biology. I'm now a theistic evolutionist.
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I never heard of it before homeschooling.  Raised very conservative Christian.  DH never heard of it either.  We were raised in the Bible belt and I never heard of it.

This.  I grew up Southern Baptist in the Bible belt and never heard of it until I started homeschooling.

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As far as I know all Christians prior to the 19th century took the Bible's creation account literally. Other religions have their own creation stories.

What else would people have believed?

 

As a child I never noticed the cognitive dissonance between the Bible and 'millions of years' I learned in school.

 

I have thought this before too. Evolutionists act as if that's what has been believe since the beginning of time (millions of years ago? thousands?) I really haven't researched this topic enough to know the history of it. Is there anyone or group of people that believed in evolution before Darwin? There are creation stories from many cultures out there. Darwin is a newer theory compared to the history past down. I think many assume that we are more intelligent now because of our technological advances and this is the newest theory so... it must be right? Also, I would like someone to explain how you can evolve male and female of the same species. They need each other to procreate, but yet they are so different. How could they evolve at the same rate to be able to do that? "I'll make a cell that needs one of your cells to jump over, uh, make that swim, and join my cell." I'd need way more faith in that theory than I do in Creationism. Evolution, to me, is the world's excuse for trying to avoid the truth.

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I didn't read everything so my previous response doesn't seem to flow with the going conversation, sorry! I wasn't raised going to church and I went to a public school teaching evolution. For some reason I just felt that the Bible was literal and I take it literally. I'm not sure why it is fought so much. Maybe because some of us like debates :tongue_smilie:

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I remember nothing from my public school education about how the world began. If they taught us anything, I don't recall it. I remember being told that as far as they knew the universe had always been there. But I have no memory of them telling me when the earth formed. I didn't hear about the big bang theory until I was out of school.

 

So...on to church (since school wasn't teaching me much.) We were vaguely taught that if you follow the genealogies from Adam down to Christ you could see how long the world had been around: about 6 or 7 thousand years.

 

I had NO REASON to think otherwise. I figured that's just how it was and that everyone agreed on it. Why would I think otherwise?

 

I didn't go to college. I went directly to work.

 

One day I was reading Clan of the Cave Bear. On the inside cover was a map of when and where caveman artifacts had been found. They were dated. Some of the dates were for 30,000 years ago or more. I thought, "Huh. I guess they put that in there because it's a work of fiction. Everyone knows the earth is only 6 or 7 thousand years old.

 

But just to be sure, I thought I'd double check. The internet was pretty new, so I dailed up and started looking up those "fictional" artifacts and found out they were real. I was astounded to discover that the earth was well over 6 or 7 thousand years old and that everyone else in the world knew it except for me! I was 25 years old!

 

What a shock!

 

It didn't shake my faith. I'm not mad at anyone for teaching me that. I see why they did. Since then (I'm 42 now), I've made up my own mind based on things I've read and am satisfied that it's a lot older than 6 or 7,000 years.

 

I stil remember the shock. It was a physical reaction. My face got red. I was so stunned that I had believed something as being rock solid truth for so long and never had a clue how out of it I was. I was REALLY GLAD I'd never talked with someone about because I would have been so embarrassed to talk about the age of the earth and have someone have to tell me, "Uh...it's billions of years old, Garga. Not a couple thousand." Glad I quietly found out on my own.

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I heard a pastor talk about it a little bit in the late 80's, but I didn't see him as a science power house, so I didn't think much about it. He did put it forth as something that Christian's had to believe (the old "You can't believe part of the Bible and not all of it" argument that totally disregards the original languages the Bible was written in). 

 

I didn't hear it again until I started homeschooling in the mid-aughts. . It is a big deal in one of the churches that hosts a co-op we attend, but since it isn't a big deal to me, I was able to easily tune it out. I did specifically question one of my son's teachers about it because the person was teaching apologetics, and that led to an interesting discussion whereby he jumped to a lot of erroneous conclusions about our family and our beliefs, so that was interesting. That situation just left me shaking my head though. I guess it boils down to the fact that what other people believe doesn't bother me. 

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I never believed the millions of years thing and that started way before I became a Christian. However, it's not a hill I choose to die on or even climb. I believe God did it. How He did it isn't something I'm all that interested in because I don't think it's something I'll ever truly understand. It's not a salvation issue and I think it's a topic that creates disharmony between people and while I do believe in absolutes and that Christianity has some, I don't think creationism is one of those absolutes. Jesus said to repent and to love each other. The first I have to do daily and the second, I fail at frequently. But no one is denied salvation based on their beliefs on creation. 

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I grew up being aware of YEC. However, there are lots of Christians who believe that the world was created in 6 literal days who do not believe that the earth is young. The Biblical argument for an extremely young earth is a convoluted one. It is based on taking lists of generations and assigning a length of time to a generation and adding that with other specific time frames mentioned in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say anything like, "God created the earth x number of years ago."

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I'm not seeing what you see........... I don't see the poll separating a young earth creation from old earth. In fact, the stats you present focus on when HUMANS were created, not the earth.

That seems a needless distinction to me. YEC who believe in a literal 6 day creation see the age of the earth as being more or less the same as the creation of the first man and woman, separated by a mere 5 days. It is, in fact, more or less the same thing which is why the headline on the polling is about creationism vs. evolution.

 

Are there any people who believe in "Old Earth" who think that then, sometime in the last 10,000 years (the number used in the polling), God decided to create man in their present form? If so, they are not literal Genesis believers, not by half.

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That seems a needless distinction to me. YEC who believe in a literal 6 day creation see the age of the earth as being more or less the same as the creation of the first man and woman, separated by a mere 5 days. It is, in fact, more or less the same thing which is why the headline on the polling is about creationism vs. evolution.

 

Are there any people who believe in "Old Earth" who think that then, sometime in the last 10,000 years (the number used in the polling), God decided to create man in their present form? If so, they are not literal Genesis believers, not by half.

 

It's late.......... so I hope I'll make sense........ if I don't, just ask and I'll try to clarify when I'm awake :)

 

I do see it as a needed to distinction. There is a huge difference between someone who believe in YEC and OEC creation. And yes, from my experience, people who believe in OEC believe the old is earth but people in their current form came along in the last 10,000 years. And many who believe in OEC believe in at least micro-evolution, or evolution started by God. The poll doesn't differentiate, and I think it needs to be valid.

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I grew up Southern Baptist and my parents never forced those topics. I remember my Dad multiple times telling me to not believe other's opinions without reading the Bible, researching, digging and deciding for myself.

 

I try not to put God in a box, Science and God can go hand in hand. Perhaps our human minds are just too flawed or lack the knowledge to see the grand picture. Science has been wrong many times and years later we laugh at the wrong school of thoughts. I believe more so in eras than days. It does seem like YEC is huge in my homeschool co-op. I try to not discuss my opinions on it too much and just pass the bean dip. I want to enjoy the community of fellow homeschoolers and not bicker about our biased opinions of creation.

 

 

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It's late.......... so I hope I'll make sense........ if I don't, just ask and I'll try to clarify when I'm awake :)

 

I do see it as a needed to distinction. There is a huge difference between someone who believe in YEC and OEC creation. And yes, from my experience, people who believe in OEC believe the old is earth but people in their current form came along in the last 10,000 years. And many who believe in OEC believe in at least micro-evolution, or evolution started by God. The poll doesn't differentiate, and I think it needs to be valid.

Ok, regardless, the fact remains that a plurality of Americans believe that humans did not evolve and were created in their present form sometime in the last 10,000 years. That is an incredibly high number relative to the rest of the western world and is incredibly telling about the state of scientific literacy of Americans in general.

 

I think OE vs. YE is pretty contrived. The issue people on both sides point to is evolution, specifically evolution of humans.

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I have thought this before too. Evolutionists act as if that's what has been believe since the beginning of time (millions of years ago? thousands?) I really haven't researched this topic enough to know the history of it. Is there anyone or group of people that believed in evolution before Darwin? There are creation stories from many cultures out there. Darwin is a newer theory compared to the history past down. I think many assume that we are more intelligent now because of our technological advances and this is the newest theory so... it must be right? Also, I would like someone to explain how you can evolve male and female of the same species. They need each other to procreate, but yet they are so different. How could they evolve at the same rate to be able to do that? "I'll make a cell that needs one of your cells to jump over, uh, make that swim, and join my cell." I'd need way more faith in that theory than I do in Creationism. Evolution, to me, is the world's excuse for trying to avoid the truth.

 

Charles Darwin did not invent the theory of evolution, he found the physical evidence to support it. The theory was centuries in the making. 

 

Not surprising to some, the Scots invented sex

 

You might find this a helpful site in explaining what evolution is, and how it works: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

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I think the issue is very complicated because it can't be simply defined as OE vs. YE. There's also the issues of creation vs. evolution, and, within creationism, literal 6-day vs. non-literal 6-day (I'm sure there are still more issues as well). 

 

A lot of times I see people jumping on YECs for believing in a literal 6-day creationism. Yes, many YECs may believe this, but the two don't necessarily go together. . .

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I have thought this before too. Evolutionists act as if that's what has been believe since the beginning of time (millions of years ago? thousands?) I really haven't researched this topic enough to know the history of it. Is there anyone or group of people that believed in evolution before Darwin? 

 

There are two different questions here:

 

Did people before Darwin (and Wallace) know about evolution?

Did people before D&W believe that the world was created in a literal (rather than a figurative) six days?

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Ok, regardless, the fact remains that a plurality of Americans believe that humans did not evolve and were created in their present form sometime in the last 10,000 years. That is an incredibly high number relative to the rest of the western world and is incredibly telling about the state of scientific literacy of Americans in general.

 

 

I have not seen this to be true, but it might be because I hang around in the science vs non-science world.  There are a fair number of true science folks (researchers and all) who believe in Creation rather than evolution, but it doesn't mean at all that they couldn't get 100% on a science test - even one including oodles of evolution questions.  They know it.  They just don't believe it is true.

 

I have yet to come across any YEC (again, in my science world) who don't believe in mutations and variations within species or genus.  I have only heard of one high school student who professed that dinosaurs weren't real and I'm not positive he wasn't saying it just to get attention rather than really believing it.  The adult and high school YECs  I know all believe in dinosaurs and fossils and such things.  They believe there are flaws in radioactive dating.

 

I haven't looked at it or updated my personal info on it for a long time (aside from occasionally reading parts of student papers as I tend to be curious when they write about science things - not all are YEC in their papers), but there are many fallacies non YEC folks have about YEC beliefs.  When one really looks at scientific YEC thoughts, there are many interesting points to consider.  Answers in Genesis is an interesting site to read - esp when one goes more into their technical responses rather than their lay responses.  One does have to ignore the "must believe" aspect of it all, but that's true of evolution sites too.  

 

To me though, I'm not sure I consider theories on origins to be science.  I consider them more to be history.  Science would be reproducible.  Origins are not.  While some may be convinced it HAD to be one way or the other, I shrug and feel we'll never know (on earth anyway).  This is why I can look at it all as a curiosity and not as hill to die on either way.  That allows me to freely go within both groups and I like it.  My kids can do the same.

 

The parts that are reproducible (mutations/genetic variation, etc) no one (science based) disagrees with.  That would be where I'd draw my line.

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Well, although it's from Wikipedia, this article is actually very well sourced.  There is no one particular origin for the YE perspective, as variations of it have existed since the foundation of Christianity. 

 

I would like to add, however, that not all OE creationists are free to assume that humans evolved the way that animals did. Many believe that the spirit and the body are created at the same time. But, scientific evidence indicates that humans evolved over time out of other species, and at no point in time, did hominid populations reduce to fewer than 2,000 - 10,000 individuals. This conflicts with the ideal that an actual, literal Adam and Eve acted as the First Parents for all human beings, in order for the propagation of Original Sin.  If that doctrine is undermined, then the very purpose of Christ is undermined.  In that sense, many OE creationists are in a similar situation to the YE creationists, in that whatever the preponderance of scientific evidence may find, they are constrained to hold to certain elements of the Genesis story, or risk upending the most fundamental aspects of their religion. 

 

For me, I think all groups are subject to denial of evidence that contradicts what they want to believe, secularists too.  That's just individual bias.  However, some people try harder to fight that bias, and consider all the evidence and try to let that inform their opinion. My overall opinion of YE is that the evidence is so astoundingly in favor of an OE, that in order to hold to a YE view, one must either choose not to investigate the other evidence, or simply to deny it in favor of subjective, non-scientific arguments. Or, to employ cognitive dissonance and just never think about the contradiction.

 

 

 

 

 

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I just recently read a devotional put out by the Institute for Creation Research that pointed out a few interesting thoughts. First, the Lord Jesus Christ himself stated, "from the beginning of creation, God made them (referring to people) male and female." Jesus also quoted scripture concerning 6 days of creation, with the 7th being the day God rested. And if one believes the first chapter of the book of John (literally, I suppose many would say), one would see that all things were made by the Word -- that is, Jesus. So, in other words, He was there at the time, in fact He was the one who did it, therefore, He should know. The question is, were human beings just an afterthought, or were we God's main purpose for the creation? If so, why would He waste billions of years in a meaningless charade of suffering and dying by billions of animals before getting to the point?

 

I believe there have always been "YE creationists", it's just that as the theory of evolution has become accepted as truth, we now have to have a label for those who don't believe it. I would suggest that, if you are searching for an answer, you read the Bible (actually read it yourself) and ask God to reveal the truth to you.

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... The question is, were human beings just an afterthought, or were we God's main purpose for the creation? If so, why would He waste billions of years in a meaningless charade of suffering and dying by billions of animals before getting to the point?

 

...

 

Interesting question and it brings to mind another. What was God's original purpose for creating humans? Has it always been to bring them to Him in Heaven? If so, why waste thousands of years in a meaningless charade of suffering and dying by billions of humans before getting to the point?

 

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I never heard of YEC until I came on these boards about 5 years ago.  And even then I didn't realize that it was such a widespread, sincere belief.  I grew up United Methodist, went Catholic for a while (and my mother's entire family is Catholic) and currently attend UMC.  Never heard the idea at any of them.

 

As far as literal interpretation being a long-held belief - isn't there some discussion about the Hebrew/Aramaic word for "day" also possibly meaning "era" or period of time?  So, even a literal interpretation of the original language does not necessarily lead to a YE conclusion?

 

I also thought that many of the earlier churches went with a more allegorical rather than strictly historical interpretation of things?

 

But then you have an era of plants, etc. existing without light.  (Plants created on Day 3. The sun/moon and stars on Day 4)

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1&version=NIV

Or rather "vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds."  on the third day "And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

 

"Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.†And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

 

I can conceive of plants existing for 24 hours without the sun. I cannot conceive of them surviving for long periods of time without light.

 

Growing up, we were taught literal creation. Though the bigger issue was the Flood. Many of the "reference" manuals showed the Flood as a local flood and my parents taught me it was worldwide anyway. That just like people can sin and still be redeemed, books can be wrong on some details and still useful for information in the aggregate.  At Berean, we had a special speaker that came and showed how all the animals could have fit in the Ark, etc. with scale models and everything.

 

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Interesting question and it brings to mind another. What was God's original purpose for creating humans? Has it always been to bring them to Him in Heaven? If so, why waste thousands of years in a meaningless charade of suffering and dying by billions of humans before getting to the point?

 

I knew this would be the next question. I suggest you search the Bible for the answer.

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But then you have an era of plants, etc. existing without light. (Plants created on Day 3. The sun/moon and stars on Day 4)

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1&version=NIV

Or rather "vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." on the third day "And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

 

"Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.†And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

 

I can conceive of plants existing for 24 hours without the sun. I cannot conceive of them surviving for long periods of time without light.

 

Growing up, we were taught literal creation. Though the bigger issue was the Flood. Many of the "reference" manuals showed the Flood as a local flood and my parents taught me it was worldwide anyway. That just like people can sin and still be redeemed, books can be wrong on some details and still useful for information in the aggregate. At Berean, we had a special speaker that came and showed how all the animals could have fit in the Ark, etc. with scale models and everything.

 

Maybe you can answer--do YEC really believe that dinosaurs are extinct because they couldn't fit on the ark or is that just rumor?

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I knew this would be the next question. I suggest you search the Bible for the answer.

 

So are you saying that you have an answer to that question? I have searched for years and never found an answer to that question. I have read my Bible cover to cover, asked my pastor, and asked Christian friends and family. All that searching has given me one answer - that we humans will never understand God's ways on this side of heaven.

 

I didn't expect an answer when I posed that question. My point was that using "why would God do that" as proof of some sort makes no sense when very little of what God does makes sense to my mind. If you have an answer I would love to hear it. Please don't just give me a flippant "search the Bible."

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First of all, the question was not posed as "some sort of proof". I just thought it was an interesting question to consider. Second, my suggestion to search the Bible was not flippant. It was genuine. Don't just take somebody's word for what the Bible says or means. Go to the source, and ask God for understanding.

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Maybe you can answer--do YEC really believe that dinosaurs are extinct because they couldn't fit on the ark or is that just rumor?

 

In the circle I know, this is rumor.  Dinos died out after the flood for various reasons - pretty much the same as other currently extinct animals.  They would have been on the Ark.

 

Fish (and other swimming critters) were not.

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First of all, the question was not posed as "some sort of proof". I just thought it was an interesting question to consider. Second, my suggestion to search the Bible was not flippant. It was genuine. Don't just take somebody's word for what the Bible says or means. Go to the source, and ask God for understanding.

 

Yes or no, do you have an answer to my question?

 

If yes, then PLEASE share. I won't take your word for it, but it will give me a starting point that nobody has yet been able to give me.

 

If no, then "search the Bible" was flippant.

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First of all, the question was not posed as "some sort of proof". I just thought it was an interesting question to consider. Second, my suggestion to search the Bible was not flippant. It was genuine. Don't just take somebody's word for what the Bible says or means. Go to t

 

Lots and lots of people do this, and they seem to get quite different answers. 

 

Scientists from various fields from various regions all over the world, and from various religious backgrounds, who search the _science_ for the answers agree to a very high degree.

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Lots and lots of people do this, and they seem to get quite different answers. 

 

Scientists from various fields from various regions all over the world, and from various religious backgrounds, who search the _science_ for the answers agree to a very high degree.

 

This is significant.

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Yes or no, do you have an answer to my question?

 

If yes, then PLEASE share. I won't take your word for it, but it will give me a starting point that nobody has yet been able to give me.

 

If no, then "search the Bible" was flippant.

Tracy, I can try to explain my understanding, but I am afraid it will fall short of what you are looking for. Furthermore, I don't have all day to spend on this forum. But here goes with my feeble attempt to answer your question: Revelation 4:11 tells us that God created all things for his pleasure. (Why does an artist create art?) Isaiah 43:7 refers to God's people being created for His glory. Isaiah 45:18 says that God did not form the earth in vain; he formed it to be inhabited. He made living creatures to live here and, according to Psalm 147:11, he takes pleasure in those who fear him and who hope in his steadfast love. Genesis 1:27 tells us that we were created in the image of God. (We are special to him) BUT God didn't make robots. He gave us moral freedom. Romans 5:12 explains that sin brought the curse of death to the world. Ezekiel 33:11 says that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Romans 6:23 tells us that the payment for sin is death BUT goes on to say the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. In his infinite mercy, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). In Luke 15:7, Jesus speaks of the joy in Heaven over sinners who repent. Hebrews 12:2 tells us that, for the joy that was set before him, Jesus endured the cross...God made us for his pleasure and we messed up. Because he loves us, he made a way for us to be restored to Him. That's why John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

Some will scoff at this post, but it is what it is. As I said, don't just take somebody's word for what the Bible says or means. Crack it open (I am not only speaking to you, Tracy) and read it yourself. Ask God to help you find the truth.

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I was raised in a fundamentalist church that believed literally in a seven day creation. I left that church after college. I never heard the phrase YEC until I homeschooled. It seems like a very southern concept to me, but I've happened upon the occasional Believer in Maryland. I'm guessing that most YECists gravitate towards religious co-ops or wouldn't be too vocal in secular ones. I have a handful of Jewish friends and none of them believe in YEC. It's just not a belief I've seen prevail in very educated populations. I thought of the YECs last night while I was watching Cosmos. I imagine they'd find the show VERY irritating.

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I grew up Presbyterian and never heard of it until homeschooling.

 

From the Muslim standpoint, while the "creation" story exists in the Qur'an (as do many of the same Biblical stories), yawm...which can mean days, also means ages.  

 

I actually think the Bible backs that up in Psalms 90:4 "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night."

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I was homeschooled from the beginning of my school years until graduating from high school in 2002. One of the major reasons my parents homeschooled me and my 3 sisters was so that we would not be taught evolution in public schools. We were taught Young Earth in our science curriculum (Abeka). My parents were North American Baptist, then Southern Baptist, now Foursquare (Pentecostal). My dad is a pastor. They are very much of the mindset that was talked about in a recent thread that most Catholics, Lutherans, Mormons, etc are not true "Christians." 2 of the 4 of us (including myself) no longer identify with their brand of Christianity or believe the Young Earth story, much to their disappointment.

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