processing speed: how low is low?

[Arcadia]

(ETA: as in low enough to be worried. He is my failure to thrive kid. I had also gotten polite complains from outside teachers over the years)

Just got back the WISC-IV extended norms results. Wandering how "bad" the score is for my 9yr 2mth son.

PSI composite score 100 percentile 50
Coding 09 (scaled score)
Symbol search 11 (scaled score)

My 10yr 2mth son
Coding 11 (scaled score)

Does that mean both have bad coding score? (ETA: both boys nearly had OT evaluations, hit motor skills milestones late).
GAI was computed for both as well as FSIQ. Extended norms were use as both hit ceilings for some of the subtests.

[quark]

Just to give you a bump...your younger's looks about mid range to me. Scaled scores normally ceiling at 18-19 right?

Your older's is interesting...hitting a ceiling with symbol search and mid range-ish for coding.

 

I wouldn't call this low but I am not an expert.

 

I have come across kids scoring at the lower 10th percentile for PSI but scoring at the superior or very superior range in other areas. That is a huge discrepancy and parents confide that signs are usually clear earlier on and that they need a lot more help with writing.

 

Were you able to receive some interpretation of results? If extended norms were used then I am assuming the psych is possibly more well-versed with giftedness/2e than usual? I had to calculate extended norms myself because our tester wasn't going to and also because we tested through a university (through their psych department) and not through a private tester.

[wapiti]

No.  If I understand your scores correctly (those are scaled subtest scores, not percentiles, correct?), one is average for PS and one is very high for PS.  The average scaled score for coding is 10, so one of your kids is just below and one is just above average.

 

By comparison, looking at the scores of one of my boys from several years ago, his scaled score for coding is 6.  The percentile is 9th.  He hasn't been tested recently (we will test again eventually), but my understanding is that this coding score still isn't quite low enough for college board accommodations.

 

Eta, when you do have dramatically different scores in the other areas, you can end up with a sort of bottleneck, where the writing can't come out fast enough.  That said, I don't think it's uncommon to have average processing speed scores with a high GAI, for example.  Annoying, but not uncommon.  On the bright side, those are not what I'd call low coding scores :)

[Arcadia]

The psych said it is normal for his age. Discrepancy is 50 points or more with the other indices. I do have a semi-detailed report for each kid.

[quark]

Actually, him saying that it is normal would be wildly disputed in certain gifted forums especially given that your child scored very high in other areas. :glare:

 

What I understand is that dramatic discrepancy is sometimes considered to make scores not meaningful when the child is hitting an extreme in other area(s). Kiddo had a 20+ point discrepancy in one area and someone I consulted (another licensed psych) did notice that but she also said that with very high scores in other areas, 20-25 points isn't unusual. With a 50+ discrepancy, I can understand wanting to research this more actively.

 

Have you tried asking on the Davidson public gifted issues board, especially on the testing subforum? There are some testing expert parents who sometimes post over there. You don't have to be a DYS parent to post: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/

[Arcadia]

It's scaled subtest scores. This kid can't write or answer fast enough, which is really hard on him. His working memory score is actually 150 which was unexpected :lol:
I'll go read through the DYS forums.

ETA:
Oldest have a 54 point gap between two of the indices. Didn't realise that since the percentiles are close.

[FairProspects]

What are the percentages for processing speed? I think those might be more helpful although I agree that generally those processing scores look pretty average. They are much higher than my kid with slow processing speed, for example.

[wapiti]

I agree w/quark, check out the Davidson boards and maybe ask over there if you are concerned about the discrepancy.

 

Ultimately, "low" is a question of comparison.  A scaled score that is a few standard deviations lower than GAI is likely to be annoying, but how annoying might vary by individual.  You are seeing a problem in real life, therefore there is one.  Then the question becomes what, if anything, to do about it.  (Bear in mind that average coding scores are not going to result in accommodations for SAT/ACT regardless of the discrepancy angle.)

 

As technology becomes more widely accepted in the classroom, I am hoping that will help ameliorate some of this motor issue represented by the coding score.  Dd has been using an iPad to type her notes for two years now in middle school and at her high school, all students have iPads.  In addition, the new SAT will supposedly be on computer (we shall see!!) and I think that will also help.

[Arcadia]

Wapiti,

 

They have done well on computerised tests, even timed ones. So wasn't looking for accommodations. More of what is really normal since average is so ambiguous nowadays. He is also my failure to thrive kid so I do worry more if anything is off.

 

It's annoying at times but easy to tolerate at home. The poor kid eats so slowly his packed lunch for camps is mainly plenty of milk.

[wapiti]

What I would take away from the coding subtest score of 9 is good news, that the motor aspect of his struggle with writing isn't terrible.  Sure, IMO there could be a connection to any other "nervous system slowness" (for lack of a better term) but it doesn't sound as though the coding score is evidence of a significant difficulty, as annoying as it may be sometimes.

 

I don't know whether there have been any studies, but it would be interesting to know how common an average PS is among people with a high GAI, though of course, the GAI isn't even going to be calculated unless the PS is lower, so it would be low by definition.  I guess my question would be how common average PS is among people with high VC/PR.  I thought there might be an article on this on the GDC website but I can't find it.

[Arcadia]

Bumping my old thread for book recommendations

Just read this while spending the day at the library

Help Your Child Overcome Slow Processing Speed and Succeed in a Fast-Paced World
Bright kids who can't keep up by Ellen Braaten & Brian Willoughby
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1609184726

Last to Finish
A story about the smartest boy in math class by Barbara Esham
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Finish-Smartest-Adventures-Everyday/dp/1603364560

 

ETA:

Links provide a quick summary to the book

part 1 http://www.mghclaycenter.org/parenting-concerns/grade-school/intro-processing-speed/

Part 2 http://www.mghclaycenter.org/parenting-concerns/grade-school/coping-slow-processing-speed-home-school/

 

[Arcadia]

Double post

[PeterPan]

Did you ever sort out the eating thing?  I'm wondering if that's actually motor planning.  My slower processing child eats fine, and my dc with apraxia (and a MUCH higher processing speed) eats slower, fatigues with chewing more easily, and just overall eats less and more like a bird.  

 

To the psych, my dc with the 25% discrepancy between IQ and processing speed still has enough of a gap that it's affecting function.  The other dc, with a 60% gap, has significant issues where we have to make obvious allowances for it.  So yes, I can totally see where a 45-50% gap, in an extremely bright/gifted dc would be phenomenally hard to work with.  Just not sure it's actually causing the eating problem.  Are you considering meds?  I assume the dc got an ADHD label?

[Arcadia]

Did you ever sort out the eating thing?  I'm wondering if that's actually motor planning.  

...

 Are you considering meds?  I assume the dc got an ADHD label?

 

My gut feel says that the eating as slow as a food taster is due to his reflux issues from newborn to about six causing him to be wary about eating faster. For general slowness like getting dressed and brushing his teeth, it seems to be more of an EF issue that has gotten much better over time.  Like getting clothes ready the night before, having shirt, pants and socks chosen and put in neat stack by him helps in cutting short the time to dress the next day which makes our mornings getting out of the door for outside class smoother.

 

DS9's issues are with (1) Activation and (3) Effort on the link

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10782.aspx

​

What has help for school work for him is "boosting up" his EF skills

1) hanging monthly wall calendar with dates cross out as we go.  He has problem figuring out today's date without looking at his watch/computer

2) planner with outside activities penned in on both the monthly and weekly page. daily checklists for him to see and check off.

3) him wearing a watch which shows time and date

4) when he has a project for outside class, I explicitly help him with project management skills until now he could do it. DS10 didn't need handholding for project management.

 

Been evaluated twice for ADHD and both psych says no. They said no to autism too. It is a 58 point gap, 49.9 percentile difference for DS9.  It is a 54 point gap. 3.9 percentile difference for DS10.

 

I was telling hubby that being a lawyer or researcher might suit DS9. On reading the book, I actually won't be surprise if hubby has a similar profile to DS9 if hubby was ever tested.