What "grade level" is this composition? The Buddy Edition

[Gil]

I need an objective opinion here.

 

This composition was written over a weeks time by my son. The topic was assigned on a Sunday and worked on gradually through out the week--outlines, main points, drafts, paragraphys written throughout the week. I do not physically scribe for the boys, nor do I spell for them normally. I have tried to preserve the spelling/grammar that Buddy produced. I am not stating the age/grade of the student, because I want an "objective" opinion, I'm trying to figure out what level resources to begin considering for the boys.

 

How to Be a Friend by Axxxxx
 

What is a Friend?
 

A friend is someone who is in a friendship with another person or more people.
A friend is a person who will play with you and talk to and spend time with you for leisure. You can get advise or help with a friend. If you fight with a friend, you do not HAVE to say 'I'm sorry' but you WANT to say 'I'm sorry' that is the difference.Friendship is something that every person wants to have with other people before they die. It means to have moutual respect and love for the person but you play with them because you want to, not because you have to. Friendship is a connection between peoples brains and their bodies. Friendship is a bond that holds people together in hard times and the good times of fun.

Who is a Friend?

A friend can be a brother or a relative but it can be a neighbor or a classmate or even someone else. My brother is my best and oldust friend, it is why I cal him Pal, he is my pal. He calls me Buddy because I am his buddy back. I have only a couple of other people--Txxxx and Rxx but the numerb of friends are not a big deal. They are fun to be with and they give good advice (sometimes). I wonce got bad, bad advice from my friend and sometimes I trick Pal because he calles me names and I was mad at him for that BUT he forgave me and I'm happy about that. If a friend is a real friend, then if they get you in trouble they will take part of the blame like when a window was broken and we shared the blame. A friend should not leave you high and dry in bad troublesome times. I have four cat friends and I love them too. They are nice and give me kisses

Friendship

"Friendship is a two-way street." That is what the poster said in school and that is what Mrs. Grxxxxx said, she said "Friendship is a two-way street, if you be a friend you will have a friend" but I don't not agree with that too.  I think real, true friendship is a 4 lane roundabout with a bridge on top and the friends are the trucks in the lanes--you have to switch lanes and wait your turn and stop a lot, but it works out so long as no one is selfish enough to crash you.

You have to give and take a lot to keep the friendship going also friendship is not always equal or exact. Sometimes Rxx gives me a toy and I do not have toys to give back. Tit-for-tat is not how friendships work and its not how tey last. You can be good to people who are mean back to you like a bully. I do not like bullies, a bully made me cry and I will never like that persons innerself.
 

How to Be a Friend?

If you want to be a friend, then you have to be willing to flexible and chanje with people you respect or admire if you fight. Also if you fight, do not cross the line of no more turning back. sometimes you will have the upperhand but do not take advantage of your friend. Be fair and treat them the way you want to be treeted.
Not like hitting a bully when they can not see you, but giving them back something cool that they dropped.
 

That is all about what a friend is, who a friend can be, what is friendship and how to be a friend. Everyone should have at least one friend, because friends make life better. In conclusion, the end.
 

By Axxxxx

[quark]

I am not able to give a grade level...sorry, I have only one child and no way to compare and judge objectively...but I did want to say that I really enjoyed reading your boys' work. They sound so delightful and precious. I especially appreciate Buddy's roundabout analogy and "In conclusion, the end!"

[Gil]

To be fair, this is probably Buddies best composition or one of the best where as Pals sample is more along the lines of his personal "average".

 

I like to keep them together as much as possible, but I think that for writing I need to seperate them and work closer with each boy. I was going to share a more generic report that Buddy had written, but I figured that since I'd shared Pals composition about Family, I'd share Buddies piece of Frienship. (Family and Friends, see?)

 

EDITED: To remove extraneous content.

[My3girls]

I was going to say maybe 4th.  His content seems good.  He just needs a little help with mechanics.  Sweet boy!

[Runningmom80]

I have no idea WRT grade level either, but I loved it.

 

I often wanted to end college papers that way. :laugh:

[Farrar]

I have read a lot of kids' writing and I still wouldn't put a grade level on it. I think you're looking at writing the wrong way if that's your primary question about this piece. Unless you're planning to send this student back to public school and trying to understand where their expectations are, then I would say the real questions are how to help him continue to hone his strong writing voice, how to help him find those errors he made in spelling and punctuation, how to help him apply his writing to different formats, etc. He obviously has a strong vocabulary, a good sense of sentence structure, a good sense of basic mechanics, a decent sense of organization, a good voice... basically it's a strong foundation to keep building on whether he's in 2nd grade or 7th.

[Gil]

I have read a lot of kids' writing and I still wouldn't put a grade level on it. I think you're looking at writing the wrong way if that's your primary question about this piece. Unless you're planning to send this student back to public school and trying to understand where their expectations are, then I would say the real questions are how to help him continue to hone his strong writing voice, how to help him find those errors he made in spelling and punctuation, how to help him apply his writing to different formats, etc. He obviously has a strong vocabulary, a good sense of sentence structure, a good sense of basic mechanics, a decent sense of organization, a good voice... basically it's a strong foundation to keep building on whether he's in 2nd grade or 7th.

 

So, do you have any resources you recommend for honing a strong writing voice, proofreading his own work for spelling and errors, how to write in different formats? I mean...do you have anything productive to add to this thread or did you just want to tell me I'm wrong for trying to figure out a grade to help me find resources to help my kid become a better writer?, even though if you'd read the beginning of the OP you'd know that I'm essentially asking for help finding resources to help him become a better writer?

My point in making this post was because I didn't know what to look for, where to look or how to figure out what focus on for each boy. I can't teach writing by myself, I need a book or a guide. I certainly don't know squat about writing programs and what might works well for who.

 

I admit: I'm more than a little grumpy after reading your response because the tone seems scolding when all I did was ask for feedback and guidance--isn't that what this specific sub-forum is for?

[MiMi 4under3]

This essay could have been written now by my 5th grader, or by her twin sister back when she was in 2nd grade. Writing really does vary by that much!

 

If I had to put a generic grade level on it, I'd very loosely say 3rd/4th...

[Farrar]

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to sound scolding - I really do just think you're asking the wrong questions is all. Not in a scolding way, really, I promise! I just think that's the wrong lens for people to look at writing in general. On this board I see a lot of that's a ___ grade paper or things like that. But I don't think that helps the writing grow and it doesn't really mean much, especially since there can be massive disagreement - even among people who have seen a lot of children's writing.

 

I don't think I understood that you were asking because you wanted to buy new writing materials. I'm not sure what you were using before or if you're a new homeschooler or if you just haven't used writing materials up to this point. I apologize that I missed that. Really, I didn't suggest anything in particular because I thought that without a specific question, the writing seems reasonably solid and unless you feel it's been stagnant, I thought you were simply already doing a pretty good job and should continue.

 

A lot of homeschool materials for writing really aren't based on grade level anyway. I think a lot of kids coming from a different approach would struggle to jump into Writing With Ease level 3, for example, even if they were good writers for their age in a different method.

 

Most people on this board know we're Brave Writer fans. It's another program not by grade level, though they have moved toward recommending ages for their various stages of writing. I can talk to you about that if you're interested in different programs. It is not an all laid out for you program and is based around creating a routine for doing language arts including dictation/copywork, freewriting, days to read poetry, and more. I like how BW focuses on building a writer's voice, on positive experiences with writing, on learning grammar and mechanics in context. I've also used some Killgallon materials with my kids and can speak to how that sentence imitation method works - it has helped one of my boys learn to vary his sentence structures more by imitating the structure of other sentences from literature. I think if your primary question is what curricula or what resources to teach writing, you will probably get a lot more good feedback on the curriculum board.

 

Again, I'm really sorry if my post offended you. I saw other posts that also said they couldn't place the grade and didn't see anyone else suggesting curricula and didn't understand that was what the purpose of the thread was. I really missed that. Apologies. Again, it really does look like you're doing a great job with him.

[Gil]

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to sound scolding - I really do just think you're asking the wrong questions is all. Not in a scolding way, really, I promise! I just think that's the wrong lens for people to look at writing in general. On this board I see a lot of that's a ___ grade paper or things like that. But I don't think that helps the writing grow and it doesn't really mean much, especially since there can be massive disagreement - even among people who have seen a lot of children's writing.

 

I don't think I understood that you were asking because you wanted to buy new writing materials. I'm not sure what you were using before or if you're a new homeschooler or if you just haven't used writing materials up to this point. I apologize that I missed that. Really, I didn't suggest anything in particular because I thought that without a specific question, the writing seems reasonably solid and unless you feel it's been stagnant, I thought you were simply already doing a pretty good job and should continue.

 

A lot of homeschool materials for writing really aren't based on grade level anyway. I think a lot of kids coming from a different approach would struggle to jump into Writing With Ease level 3, for example, even if they were good writers for their age in a different method.

 

Most people on this board know we're Brave Writer fans. It's another program not by grade level, though they have moved toward recommending ages for their various stages of writing. I can talk to you about that if you're interested in different programs. It is not an all laid out for you program and is based around creating a routine for doing language arts including dictation/copywork, freewriting, days to read poetry, and more. I like how BW focuses on building a writer's voice, on positive experiences with writing, on learning grammar and mechanics in context. I've also used some Killgallon materials with my kids and can speak to how that sentence imitation method works - it has helped one of my boys learn to vary his sentence structures more by imitating the structure of other sentences from literature. I think if your primary question is what curricula or what resources to teach writing, you will probably get a lot more good feedback on the curriculum board.

 

Again, I'm really sorry if my post offended you. I saw other posts that also said they couldn't place the grade and didn't see anyone else suggesting curricula and didn't understand that was what the purpose of the thread was. I really missed that. Apologies. Again, it really does look like you're doing a great job with him.

 

Thank you for that, its okay, I was upset, but I'm not now :). Here, lets share a nice :grouphug: and both feel better.

 

So far, we have not used an actual writing program--We dabbled in grammar using some books from the library, the boys write one main composition a week, and give a little presentation. They read a lot and by a lot I mean a lot.

 

I am trying to read through Treasured Conversations which is big on the guided analysis approach. If I can wrap my head around the approach then I might delay buying anything else, but that means I also need to read more widely so that I can have a gauge of what sort of writing I should be guiding them toward. I like the Guided Analysis approach but I don't have a very good literary compass so I make a crappy navigator.

 

I have also just found out about Writing and Rhetoric and I'm going to get the books via the library if I can to take a closer look.

Brave Writer sounds like what I'm feebly trying to do already--so I'll look into it as well. I will have to mine through the K-8 and Logic boards for writing reviews and experiences. I guess I'll have to familiarize myself with the writing programs or all the acronyms will just be gibberish to me.

[Farrar]

Thank you for that, its okay, I was upset, but I'm not now :). Here, lets share a nice :grouphug: and both feel better.

 

You know... I feel like writing is the thing that we're most emotional about as parent/teachers - and no wonder because it's also the thing that the kids are most emotional about as well. I admit that I often don't come on this subforum because it often feels very judgy to me. And it's usually obvious objectively that people are trying to be helpful and useful but I'm always thinking how difficult it is to get good feedback on writing in this context. I mean, kids are so different. Writing can be so idiosyncratic. It's just much harder to be objective beyond grammar and mechanics.

 

Subscribe to the BW writing tips and/or the blog and see if it jibes with you. I was also trying to teach writing pretty DIY... which I have done before, but at the middle school level. When I had my own kids when they were younger, I was really struggling. I didn't like any of the programs I looked at, but I couldn't seem to get a rhythm with it. Especially, I couldn't seem to trust myself. BW changed that for us. It's definitely not right for everyone, but I am a bit of an evangelist for it. One BW thing would be to think about writing in different forms - not just a composition each week, but think about doing a poem, then a newspaper article, then a story, then a report, then a set of instructions, then an advertisement, etc. so you can help him grow different voices and styles and think about the rules of each one.

 

Good luck!

[MerryAtHope]

So cute, thanks for sharing! The "voice" sounds elementary-aged to me...there are times I would say upper because of the vocabulary or the analogy, and then there are times I would say lower because the expressions sound a bit like something a younger child would say. But outside of that, it's impossible to say because kids' writing abilities are truly all over the map. My oldest in junior high would never have given me that many sentences for example (unless he was writing orally), plus he had many spelling struggles. I'd have been pretty happy to get either of these from my oldest in elementary school.

 

As far as using their ability-grade level to help you determine what to get--I think instead I would identify the type of material you like (for example, if you like Bravewriter materials, then take a closer look and see where your sons are in their system--perhaps partnership or faltering ownership...) and then place them by ability.

 

Some programs are determined by the student's actual grade level (Essentials in Writing is this way--most of the time you just go by their age/grade. IEW is somewhat this way--a range of ages start with A, B, or C, though there can be wiggle room to go up or down sometimes.) You can always look at samples of a program and then decide to go up or down. 

 

In other words--how to choose what "level" of materials to go with is going to vary A LOT by the program. So I would identify what you want to help them with first, and then look at levels--and then maybe come back with questions about whether to go with a higher or lower level of that...does that make sense? 

 

I have found that the "grade level" of materials really isn't a big factor in choosing writing curriculum--two different age/stage children (within reason) can both learn from the same curriculum (for example, Sonlight LA is this way. And Bravewriter's The Writer's Jungle is listed for age groups from 5-12!). You might have slightly different expectations for an older or more proficient writer, but both could learn about how to write a great hook, literary devices, how to organize a paragraph or essay, how to correct run-ons and fragments, or how to make their writing come alive. Think of writing curriculum as being like a great book--if it's a great book, people of many ages can enjoy or even learn from it. It's not always a "grade level" type of thing. 

 

Even grammar and spelling programs can vary a lot by how you choose--something like Easy Grammar, which has a spiral approach, you would go by their actual age-grade, and they would master what they could that year. Some programs have placement tests for spelling, some start at the beginning, some go by age-grade, some by ability...

 

I will say that knowing the age of your sons would make a difference in my mind as far as suggesting what to work on...knowing whether you have a very advanced younger child would get a different response, for example. An advanced 2nd grader might produce something that most people would be glad to have their 4th grader produce--but that doesn't mean the child should do a curriculum meant for 4th graders--it's really going to depend on the curriculum.

 

Anyway...I hope this helps to some extent. Frankly, I think it sounds like you are doing a tremendous job. I would probably work on spelling and grammar a bit and possibly continue doing writing how you are doing it--it seems successful. But if you want materials to help you teach or to give you a road map for the next step, I'd try to get a feel for your teaching style--what will really help and assist you--and then also what types of approaches seem to work well for your boys. 

 

For example...do you like lesson plans all done for you so that you don't have to design lessons? Do you want something "tweakable" to add your spin? Do you want something to teach you how to teach writing so you can prepare any kind of lesson you want? Do you want something scripted? Would you like a video teacher? Something that focuses just on writing or incorporates grammar?

 

And so on.

 

Questions about each child's style might include thinking how he likes to learn other things--does he like open-ended assignments so he can be creative? Does he prefer targeted assignments--defined but still room to put his spin on it? Does he like instruction to be very direct, or does he like to explore and discover things on his own? 

 

HTH some as you explore options for the future!

[JDoe]

You may want to read Aristotle on Friendship

 

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.8.viii.html

 

As for grade level of this text it is a bit of hit and miss, but on my personal references it is somewhere between what my 12 and 14 y.o. would do, but that does not tell anything about grade levels.