What "grade level" is this composition? The Pal Edition

[Gil]

I need an objective opinion here.

ETA: This composition was produced over a weeks time, it was not written all at once. Theme was given on Sunday, outlined on Monday with "main ideas" for each paragraph and drafted and worked on Tu-Th and finalized/re-written on Friday.

Why Family is Impourtant

 

By Axxxn

 

Family is a group of people that are related or is a group of people that love each othr.

A family is like dads and brothers and cusins and friends and neighbours and pets.

Many familys have similer traits--parents and sons and grandparents, but each family is a little different.

Some family might have a mom and a dad and a kid. Another might have just a dad and a kid or two, like mine.

Some families have grandparents, parents and kids like Bradley T. and sometimes it is just a grandparent and granddaughter like Tiana and her grandma.

All you need is love, respect and a connection for the gernerations and respect and whala!!! you have a family.

 

Family is impourtant because families look out for each other and help each other.

When my dad can not find his shirt he can ask my brother and me so we can give it to him.

When I can not figure out a math problem I ask my dad.

When I broke my arm, my brother took good care of me gave me candy and I was very loved.

When my grandma fell we went to her house to help her.

This is what family does, they take care of and share love with each other.

 

Some people do not have familees. This is called an orphan.

this means they have no family with them and they are a child.

When they grow up, they do not have to be alone, they can start their own family.

I am lucky I am not an orphan like Huckelberry, Oliver Twist and the Boxcar Children before they found grandpa Alden because I dont not want to be alone or live outside in a train car. I love my brother and my dad and my grandma and my cats. There are people I love who are not my relativ like Mr. Hilton and Bridget and Sam and Mrs. Dee they are my family because I love them.

And my dad and brother. The end, By AxxxN.

 

[8filltheheart]

At this point in the yr, I would say 2nd or maybe 3rd grade.

[Gil]

What are some targeted things that I can do to help him improve? I'm not nearly as confident with teaching writing. His spelling is worse in composition than when he's just spelling or putting captions on his comics, but obviously we have to work on that. His punctuation is weak, but honestly, I'm not sure how to help him improve on it outside of proofreading his work and going over corrections with him.

 

Last year we started the tradition of weekly research presentations--they picked a topic of interest and read widely on it for a week, then used a magnetic white board, index cards, pictures and excerpts to present on their topic and gave a short speech/presentation about it on the weekend. While that tactic has helped on getting them to get there words out and getting them to be able to report back/narrate on a topic/story, it hasn't translated into well organized compositions.

[abacus2]

I would be surprised to see a 2nd grader produce that volume or complexity of work. I would estimate this at about a 4th grade level. It has more errors than I would expect from a fifth grader.

[EKS]

I would say 3rd or 4th grade.  

[Starr]

I would take a look at SWBs writing curriculum. I found her writing workshops at convention very helpful. We've use a lot of her curricula for our homeschool. The children always liked it.

 

He's doing a great job. He has a lot of information there!

[8filltheheart]

I pretty much ignored the spelling and punctuation. Those things are normal when they are little, and, well, I have now taught 3 dyslexics. His spelling is fabulous compared to theirs as early writers.

I would start off focusing on sentences. His sentences, while some are complex in structure (meaning subordinate clause + independent clause), are typical 2nd grade style. They resemble this style:

The dog ran. The dog ran down the road. When the dog ran down the road, it barked. The dog was barking at the cat. The dog saw the cat and didn't like it. So, it barked. The cat ran away.

I teach my kids that word selection is important and that using more precise words makes writing more interesting. Learning to control a sentence leads to stronger paragraphs. I focus on less output with stronger construction. The entire paragraph above could have been written

When the tiny teacup poodle spied the cat, he stopped running and started growling at it. Surprised by the ferocious sound coming out of the little dog, the cat fled.

How do I get them there? Lots of directed questioning. What kind of dog? Can you list words that mean "to see"? What do you call when detectives spot a clue? How did the dog bark? What did the cat think of the barking? How did the cat run away?

I also have my kids brainstorm and outline. We go over their outlines and discuss what they are thinking before they start writing. Making them answer questions forces them to focus their thoughts on exactly what they want to say.

ETA: FWIW, I would not have accepted that sample from a 4th grader unless there were other learning issues.

[Arcadia]

I'll work on his proofreading skills.  As in let him do the proofreading with the commonly used proofreading marks.  It is hard to tell grade level though since my older boy's PS K class had some strong writers

[Tsuga]

3rd for overall structure and thought, 2nd for grammar, spelling, and sentence complexity(solid average).

 

ETA this is based on what I see in kids in public school. They post their writing on the wall and send home learning expectations.

[OneStepAtATime]

I think it looks closer to 3rd or 4th grade writing for an average boy, TBH.  Writing skills can take a long time to develop and honestly his writing looks pretty good compared to a lot of kids I know.  With systematic writing instruction and grammar/spelling I think he will do well in writing as the years progress.  Honestly, it isn't bad.  As for spelling in particular, my dad couldn't spell that well when he was a Colonel in the Air Force.  And he wrote a lot of complex documents (thank goodness for Mom's language arts skills :) ).  My husband can't spell that well (and he's a very successful Engineer).

 

Have you ever had him dictate what he wants to say and you scribe for him then have him read it back and do the rewrite?  

[Halcyon]

4th grade. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

What are some targeted things that I can do to help him improve? I'm not nearly as confident with teaching writing. His spelling is worse in composition than when he's just spelling or putting captions on his comics, but obviously we have to work on that. His punctuation is weak, but honestly, I'm not sure how to help him improve on it outside of proofreading his work and going over corrections with him.

 

Last year we started the tradition of weekly research presentations--they picked a topic of interest and read widely on it for a week, then used a magnetic white board, index cards, pictures and excerpts to present on their topic and gave a short speech/presentation about it on the weekend. While that tactic has helped on getting them to get there words out and getting them to be able to report back/narrate on a topic/story, it hasn't translated into well organized compositions.

 

I love the research presentation assignment.  I think it's great.  And it's not a bit surprising that he can do that - which is a pretty high level skill - but that it hasn't translated into writing yet.  I think it takes awhile to put the two pieces together.  It's the SWB mantra for elementary writing: work on the thinking piece separately from the getting words down on paper piece.  Work on it separately for as long as it takes, until they can do both easily, before you ask a kid to try and put the two skills together on a single composition.

 

I don't know what age/grade your son is, Gil, but he looks and sounds like a kid who is doing really well at the thinking piece but needs to work some more on putting his thoughts down on paper in great sentences.  Does he do any copywork or dictation? Lots of copywork and dictation, of well written passage, really helps to engrain that sense of what good sentences sound like.  Maybe doing sentence level work with one of the Killgallon books would be just the ticket.  Killgallon gets you really focusing on sentences and tools for making them more varied and interesting. 

 

If it were me, I'd back off from complex compositions for awhile, and work on copywork, dictation, and sentence-level style work.  Keep doing the oral research projects and presentations.  Let him work on the two pieces separately for a little longer before you ask him to write compositions.  Just my 2 cents.

[Gil]

I love the research presentation assignment.  I think it's great.  And it's not a bit surprising that he can do that - which is a pretty high level skill - but that it hasn't translated into writing yet.  I think it takes awhile to put the two pieces together.  It's the SWB mantra for elementary writing: work on the thinking piece separately from the getting words down on paper piece.  Work on it separately for as long as it takes, until they can do both easily, before you ask a kid to try and put the two skills together on a single composition.

 

I don't know what age/grade your son is, Gil, but he looks and sounds like a kid who is doing really well at the thinking piece but needs to work some more on putting his thoughts down on paper in great sentences.  Does he do any copywork or dictation? Lots of copywork and dictation, of well written passage, really helps to engrain that sense of what good sentences sound like.  Maybe doing sentence level work with one of the Killgallon books would be just the ticket.  Killgallon gets you really focusing on sentences and tools for making them more varied and interesting. 

 

If it were me, I'd back off from complex compositions for awhile, and work on copywork, dictation, and sentence-level style work.  Keep doing the oral research projects and presentations.  Let him work on the two pieces separately for a little longer before you ask him to write compositions.  Just my 2 cents.

Every penny counts when we're investing them in a childs education. So thanks to everyone for their feedback and advice, teaching writing is really one of my weaker areas so I can afford to consider all options/ideas.

 

[Gil]

I'll post something from Buddy a little later (probably tomorrow) so that hopefully we can do this same thing over. I can consider their math at the same time, but for some reason, its so difficult for me to consider/judge/grade writing. There are some basic rules (most of which I don't know) and the whole element of style seems so arbitrary--some things read well and some things don't but I have the hardest time understanding why which is which, ya'know?

 

Can anyone link me to some helpful threads on Copy work?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Hm, I can't think of any threads on copywork specifically off the top of my head, other than the great posts on how 8filltheHeart teaches her kids writing, in a very systematic way beginning with lots of copywork.  She has a series of posts from some years ago where she describes this.  If I can find a link, I'll post it here.  

 

ETA: found it.  starts on post #33 (although the whole thread is interesting)

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/239259-bringing-karens-mention-of-essay-writing-to-a-new-thread/?hl=%20bringing%20%20karen#39;s

 

Have you listened to SWB's audio lecture on elementary writing?  It's great, and it helped me to formulate a philosophy for teaching writing.  I think figuring out how you want to teach something, and what is important, and what are the natural stages you can expect a kid to go through, is half the battle.  You've done it for math, you can do it for writing too.  SWB's audio lecture is great. Now, you will likely find that your kids don't take 4 years to go through the stage she describes, but understanding the stage can help you see where your kids are in it.

[Gil]

Hm, I can't think of any threads on copywork specifically off the top of my head, other than the great posts on how 8filltheHeart teaches her kids writing, in a very systematic way beginning with lots of copywork.  She has a series of posts from some years ago where she describes this.  If I can find a link, I'll post it here.  

 

ETA: found it.  starts on post #33 (although the whole thread is interesting)

Thanks a lot for this. I'm sure it'll be very helpful.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/239259-bringing-karens-mention-of-essay-writing-to-a-new-thread/?hl=%20bringing%20%20karen#39;s

 

Have you listened to SWB's audio lecture on elementary writing? 

Ya know, someone mentioned SWB upthread and you did just now and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what that stands for. I can't stand the acronyms for the writing programs, I can never figure them out/rememeber them and some of them are painfully similar. If the true is same of the math acronyms, I never noticed.

 

It's great, and it helped me to formulate a philosophy for teaching writing.  I think figuring out how you want to teach something, and what is important, and what are the natural stages you can expect a kid to go through, is half the battle.  You've done it for math, you can do it for writing too.  Well, at least one of us is optimistic. I'm not so sure. SWB's audio lecture is great. Now, you will likely find that your kids don't take 4 years to go through the stage she describes, but understanding the stage can help you see where your kids are in it.

 

Honestly I haven't done any real research into writing instruction, this is sort of new territory for us. I've been meaning to do grammar and writing instruction/curriculum with the boys for almost 2 years now and we never really got anywhere with it. We did a lot of oral reports last year because they were easier, were getting done consistently, helped the boys get their words out and my mom thinks that the boys are just darling when they present with a display board. :rolleyes:

 

These compositions we've been doing lately are sort of our first foray into writing and they aren't carefully guided or anything. I do discuss the theme and help them brainstorm topic sentences through out the week, but I'm pretty hands off with their writing (Wont scribe for them, resist spelling anything for them, etc) because 1--they aren't in a hurry so should do it themselves and 2--I want them to be independent as much as possible in writing. Not sure if thats the best way, but its my personal preference and natural inclination.

 

I had intended to share a composition from each boy but didn't get around to typing and sharing anything from Buddy. I'll probably get around to him tomorrow, so if you would all be so kind as to come back then, it'd be massively appreciated.

 

[Tsuga]

As a "first foray" I revise my expectations. I would guess that with no writing other than basic spelling and reading and one-sentence answers, the child writing the composition would be eight or nine. But then, I have girls.

 

The grade level I gave was assuming intentional instruction from grade 1 on.

[quark]

Have you listened to SWB's audio lecture on elementary writing? 

Ya know, someone mentioned SWB upthread and you did just now and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what that stands for. I can't stand the acronyms for the writing programs, I can never figure them out/rememeber them and some of them are painfully similar. If the true is same of the math acronyms, I never noticed.

 

SWB is Susan Wise Bauer! :001_smile:

[Starr]

SWB is Susan Wise Bauer! :001_smile:

 

Peace Hill Press  Click on the bottom of this page.

[Chrysalis Academy]

so sorry for assuming everybody would know who SWB is!  Yes, it is our gracious host Susan WIse Bauer, and here is a link to the download of the audio lecture I was referring to:

 

http://peacehillpress.com/index.php?p=product&id=127

 

Good luck, Gil! You will figure this out, I have every confidence.  

[Gil]

I woke up this morning and the first thing that popped into my head was "Susan Wise Bauer"--spelling and all. I couldn't figure out why I had some womans name in my head, then I realized who she was and that SWB=Susan Wise Bauer.

 

Last night, because of the theme of this thread, I immediately took the W to be 'writing' or 'write' and was trying to fill in the S and the B.

 

I think that means I've been on these boards too long so yeah, never ponder WTM-board acronyms before going to be bed. It does funny stuff to you.

[Chrysalis Academy]

:lol:  I love how memory works.  Or doesn't, quite.  The older I get the more first-hand experience I get with this phenomena!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Gil, I love the content of what Pal wrote.  He's obviously thought about it and has some concrete examples from his life.  And he's obviously from a loving family.