Jump to content

Menu

Looking ahead: gifted Christian youth


Xahm
 Share

Recommended Posts

I've debated a lot about whether to attempt to ask this question because it can be easily misinterpreted, but I've decided to trust and give it a try.

 

My kids are very little, but from what we are observing and from their family background, they are likely to be well above average in intellectual ability, possibly 'just bright' but also possibly very gifted. Both my husband and I are gifted enough that it has created great opportunities but also great difficulties in our youths. Thanks to my husband's experiences with school I'm researching homeschooling to be ready as needed, and based on my experiences I'm worried about what to do with spiritual growth.  I was, and am, devoutly Christian, but growing up all of my intellectual peers were secular and my age-peer group at church, while a fun group with great people, was just not able to relate deeply with me much of the time. My faith benefited from being challenged by my secular classmates and being the "junior teacher" at youth group, but I was very, very lonely. Among the other young people at church I felt I had to tone down my abilities a lot to avoid being seen as arrogant or just being completely misunderstood and ignored. It seemed natural to try to find Christian adults to discuss things with, but I generally heard back "wow, I never thought about that" or "Girls your age shouldn't be worrying about such things" or "you just need to pray for more faith (even if I wasn't feeling a lack of faith)." I could talk with my family, but that was it. I spent a lot of time sitting in the youth room wondering "if I smash my fist through the wall, will they all just shut up long enough for the pain to be worth it?" My answer was always no, but remembering the feelings that led me to ask that makes me want to find something better for my kids, if they do turn out to need it.

 

My question is this: Are there resources for gifted Christian youth and places for them to come together with like-minded peers? The internet was not easily available to me as a teen, but I expect that there are possibilities there. We live in a largish city, so it seems like there should be opportunities to meet in person, but this is tricky because there is the unfair connotation of being "elite" in an area of life (faith), where elitism is unacceptable.  If this doesn't exist, I feel strongly enough about it to try to form it, even if my kids turn out to not need it, but I have no idea where to start and wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel unnecessarily.

 

I really hope I've communicated this well and don't sound like the world's worst parent or Christian. I'm doing well now, but there's a lot of past pain in this for me, so if I have come across poorly, please be very gentle.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never heard of a Christian youth group specifically just for gifted kids, but there's no particular reason to assume it will be a problem. The youth group I was part of had a mix of all interests and intellects. It sounds like the adults involved were very unhelpful, and some of that may vary by denomination--I know that members of some Christian denominations seem more likely to view questioning=doubting and thus to be discouraged, while others seem more likely to accept questioning as natural! and others to encourage questioning as a means to greater understanding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My family is Christian.  We also have a group of profoundly gifted people we have networked with.  Some of these people are devout Christians, others are Jewish and other religions.  One of the best things we have done is to talk to our kids about their faith and shared that idea that this group has different faiths.  

 

There are Christians who frown on me for working outside the home.  I have discussed that with my girls.  We talk about how we all have gifts and intellect is one of Mom's gifts.  I feel a responsibility to use that and my kids are aware.  My girls feel that responsibility for their intellect as well.  

 

Sadly, I too have had issues with Christians- never with Christ or the Bible, but with Christians. I feel that many Christians are their own worst enemy.  My family is very science based.  We embrace true science, teach evolution, discuss merits of string theory, believe that the earth is 4.54 billion years old, etc.  We discuss all of that regularly and we do not feel it is contradicting anything in the Bible.  In my opinion, some Christians can be hard to deal with because they stop listening after the word science comes out.  The best thing I have done is to speak frankly about this with my children.  We have taken them to apologetic discussions at church, which turned out to be less intellectual than I would have liked, but at least had open discussion of doubts, various viewpoints etc.  It was more of a starting point for home discussion.  I know this isn't truly your question- just discussing where we felt we needed to go with our children

 

As far as groups- that is likely going to be very hard.  It may depend on how "gifted" your children are.  For children moderately gifted there may be some groups that would be Christian that would be easy to form.  However if profoundly gifted, it may be extremely difficult as there are so few to start with.  Are you involved with Davidson, PGR, SENG or other organizations that can help you find people near you- not that they would know religions.  

 

My children are active in their youth groups, but that certainly does not consist of their intellectual peers.  However we have learned to separate it out.  They have their PG friends, sports friends, math club friends church friends etc.  It would be nice to have some combinations but I do not see that happening here.  I wish you luck!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your children may or may not be gifted when they are older.  It's too young to decide.

 

Your children may or may not want intellectual friends over normal friends.  It's up to them to decide when they get there.  

 

There is no way to create the group you want your kids to be involved with.  You will waste your time creating it NOW.  

 

They will chose their friends when they are older, not you.  

 

 

It seems you are thinking and worrying about issues from your past being your children's issues.  Don't do that to them.  let them grow up.  Let them pick friends.  If they need more intellectual peers you will be able to find it THEN.  A group meeting now may not exist in years to come.  In this day and age, it's easy to meet one's needs online for friendship and intellectual discussions.  I would encourage you to focus on enjoying them while they are young.  

 

 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I an misunderstanding you Tess in the burbs

 

First of all, I am not sure how one would lose giftedness.  

 

Second, when children are elementary age it may be necessary to help them find intellectual peers.  If they are moderately gifted they might find some within their own school or neighborhood.  If they are profoundly gifted chances are small.  Depending on the child they may crave the intellectual stimulation.  My son would have had an extremely rough time if we hadn't sought out intellectual peers.  We were fortunate to meet another family 2 miles away looking for the same thing.  It depends on the kids.  But I do not believe you should just "let it go." Elementary kids might just need the help of their parents here.  Intellectual peers are a true blessing.  The first time my daughter found one was in middle school.  We hadn't even realized she needed it.  She was moved to tears when it happened.

 

When my children were in elementary I did start a group of gifted parents. My kids loved it- I think you can create a group- it may fail or thrive, but you won't know til you try.  There are many successful groups.  Christian and gifted might be a little specific, but it may work.

 

Then bottom line is that it depends on the child's desires for socialization, intellectual stimulation, spiritual stimulation and the level of giftedness.  I think it is very individualized.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get what Tess in the Burbs is saying: my kids are a toddler and a preschooler, so I don't KNOW that they are gifted.  I may be just borrowing trouble. However, I can't just not think about it. Of course they will choose their own friends, as did I. However, for many, many years, I will be the one driving them to the places where they will find their friends and even choosing what those places are.  If there are places where they will be likely to connect with people who can "get" them, I'm going to be taking them there.

 

I'm so grateful for this board and that many know of resources I wouldn't even think to look for. I'm kind of hoping someone say "oh my denomination has a program like that starting for six year olds" or something like that.  Probably a pipe dream.

 

Thanks for all the good advice here. A group of gifted parents would be helpful for these young ages. The kids may or may not be gifted, but the chances for understanding are higher. It's nice to be around other families that don't get worried about their own kids when my children do something early. Plus my husband and I would enjoy the company. 

 

The apologetics/debate route is also something I will bear in mind, but as related to Kathy G's post, those groups can be (at least from my experience as a youth) "this is why evolution is wrong" groups, and constantly being told you must not be a Christian, or at least a good enough Christian, because you accept the claims of science, gets very wearing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

American Christianity as a whole, tends to be intellectually dumbed down in my experience. It's just a reflection of the reality in American education and American culture at large.  I suggest you look into various Classical Forms of education as some will lean more heavily on more substantial content, like the greatest writings of Christendom along with other great philosophies and their writings. The Circe Institute might be a good place to start.

 

I think the problem is less about giftedness in individuals and more about the sinking standards and changing definition of education over the last 150 years.  ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s the biggest reason I chose homeschooling. Once you explore the options of various Classical Education models and content and some of the other approaches to homeschooling,  itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s hard to take the modern American education system seriously anymore. The typical non-gifted student is capable of far more than current system demands-by a whole lot.  

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion, it is not necessary to find a group of peers who would be both Christian and Intellectually gifted. They can belong to secular groups and Christian groups as they are not mutually exclusive. Forming a group, running a group and recruiting people to commit to that group is not easy if you are going to also homeschool (BTDT).

 

So, in your shoes, I would find peer groups that are secular (because they are already established and available - e.g. through DYS, Lego Leagues, Chess clubs, Math Circles, Math Olympiad teams, Musical Ensembles etc etc) and encourage my child to find peers amongst his intellectual equals there. And then, you could simultaneously involve your children in religious groups of your choice where they go to make friends, participate (volunteering, crafts etc.), socialize etc. 

 

My family is not religious, but my child has been tested as gifted and the isolation he feels originates from him being gifted. I have found great success in finding peers through involving him in 2 categories of activities - the highly intellectual activities that are super specialized and the recreational activities where the level of skills or intellectual abilities do not matter and are meant for having fun and socializing. My son enjoys interactions at all the groups and has friends who are a mixed bag - some are his intellectual peers, some are athletic. As an example, his math club buddy is a teen (DS is 7) and they have lengthy discussions on math, one of his other friends has severe speech delay and DS does all the talking when they play together, there are 10 highly gifted boys who belong with DS in a chess club and they play off against each other every weekend, one of his friends plays 5 kinds of sports and DS loves learning skills from him etc.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion, it is not necessary to find a group of peers who would be both Christian and Intellectually gifted. They can belong to secular groups and Christian groups as they are not mutually exclusive. Forming a group, running a group and recruiting people to commit to that group is not easy if you are going to also homeschool (BTDT).

 

So, in your shoes, I would find peer groups that are secular (because they are already established and available - e.g. through DYS, Lego Leagues, Chess clubs, Math Circles, Math Olympiad teams, Musical Ensembles etc etc) and encourage my child to find peers amongst his intellectual equals there. And then, you could simultaneously involve your children in religious groups of your choice where they go to make friends, participate (volunteering, crafts etc.), socialize etc. 

 

My family is not religious, but my child has been tested as gifted and the isolation he feels originates from him being gifted. I have found great success in finding peers through involving him in 2 categories of activities - the highly intellectual activities that are super specialized and the recreational activities where the level of skills or intellectual abilities do not matter and are meant for having fun and socializing. My son enjoys interactions at all the groups and has friends who are a mixed bag - some are his intellectual peers, some are athletic. As an example, his math club buddy is a teen (DS is 7) and they have lengthy discussions on math, one of his other friends has severe speech delay and DS does all the talking when they play together, there are 10 highly gifted boys who belong with DS in a chess club and they play off against each other every weekend, one of his friends plays 5 kinds of sports and DS loves learning skills from him etc.

Finding a group might not be necessary, but finding one good friend would be really helpful. When I started college and made my first Christian friend with whom I could have real discussions, my relief was palpable. That I found a group of them was even better.

I don't mean at all that I don't want my children to have only Christian friends or only gifted friends, but having at least one who is both would be great, and a group that is both, as hard as that may be to find, would make it easier to find that one.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gently stated, mama, I think you are overthinking this.  If you decide to homeschool at some point, then you can seek out like-minded peers for your kids, either to match their intellectual needs or their spiritual needs.  Like other posters, I don't know that you necessarily need both, particularly not a group of peers sharing both qualities.  I value heterogeneous groups, though, and I enjoy and embrace those who are different. (not that you don't...)

 

Circe is a great suggestion from a pp.  You can read up now and soak in the knowledge and philosophy.  I find it very inspirational, if not wholly attainable for me or my family.

 

I have a gifted child, and the answer to meeting his needs has been acceleration to keep him intellectually stimulated.  We also support his interests, which are varied and ever-changing.  He needs the space and time and support to explore interests or he wilts.  At the age of 12, he is not intellectually superior to my dh or me so we are able to have stimulating conversations as he desires.  He will likely begin college courses early.  I don't know.  One year at a time.

 

I think I understand your desire to help your kids avoid the issues you faced, but I don't know that they are likely to face the same ones or that you will be able to prevent this even if they do.  I also understand the desire to have a plan for the future, but the more I do that, the more I realize that my kids and my family and our needs and priorities change too quickly to plan too far ahead.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

xahm - I think I get where you are going with this. American Christianity tends to be quite experiential in worship style and beliefs. I had a clergyman once tell me "All that's important is that Jesus loves me this I know." He knew I have multiple graduate degrees in theology, but he saw it fit to denigrate all that anyways. 

 

And in youth groups, oh yes, don't you know that they are all supposed to be about funfunfun and if you talk about anything "hard" all the teens will run for the hills?  :001_rolleyes: Teens who want to talk theology and doctrine and gasp! metaphysics are Alien Spies. Or something.

 

For those who want to understand the finer points of Christian belief, it's frustrating. Especially so if they are bright and they naturally just have a need to Understand All The Things.

 

If this turns out to be your kids, and their needs aren't being met where they are, I think it is okay to "accelerate" this area of knowledge as well. Poke around at what Bible Study classes are held at different churches, and see if there's a weeknight study that is "rigorous" and clicks with your kids. Seminaries and theology departments at universities sometimes have lectures open to the public. As for forming your own "club" with other similar kids, I think it could work if you set it up as a book club. Pick hard and obscure books like The Discarded Image or Everlasting Man and you'll be sure to limit the membership.  ;)

 

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that you just never know where your kids will find peers, including church groups.

 

DD13 is fairly accelerated in school subjects, but mostly in math. To the point where she never, ever mentions her school stuff in groups so that she can "fit in".

 

she joined a new small group at church this year of junior high kids that really studies the Bible and Christian stuff. They got to talking about school work and she figured out that two of the other kids in the group of six are also accelerated in math. Now she has two new friends to commiserate with about her "tough subjects"!

 

So you just never know...... Wait and give it a chance.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are very gifted it is unwise to further limit the pool of like minds by factoring in sex, religion or race.

 

Depends on your church - in mykids Sunday School class there are about 16 kids between 5 and 10, 5 of them have tested IQs well into the gifted range and another one is untested but there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really have any solutions to offer, but I completely understand the question.

 

I suspect your kids may have to do what all gifted kids do and find their intellectual peers in books. Sure, someday there will be an awesome graduate theology seminar, but until then make sure you have interesting theology books at home. Educate them about your faith, at a level that meets their intellectual needs. I don't know what your tradition is, but just as an example I have the Didache series which presents the Catholic faith at a fairly sophisticated level. They are textbooks, with lots of pictures. We are more Epsicopalian, but I still think they are a great resource.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on where you live, the library might be of a help. My son's theology interests have really grown as of the last two years. I have found our library carries many Biblical scholars and the books have been most helpful. The Teaching Company carries a nice selection of lectures as well. One of our pastors is very open to talking with him about his ideas. Most adults do tend to freak out, but Ds has been asked to speak at church regularly. It is not socialization in the sense he is hanging out with kids asking or discussing big questions. He has no outlets for that being PG in a rural area. His socialization started with MineCraft and now has moved on to Magic cards.

 

Socialization is a tricky thing. My son cannot share himself with people or kids intellectually. He has to find other means of connection. Most all of them circle around creative problem solving in a group setting. No one knows he is problem solving, but to be successful he has to.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My children attend a good Sunday School and have learnt a lot. I know you are basing what you think may trouble your children on what happened with you growing up - I was fortunate that I attended a teen Bible Study that was really mostly with people 17-24 when I was 13 years old and that meant that the discussions were more in depth than I would have received at that age. 

 

For me, my children's Christian faith and beliefs need to be given over to God. He is in control. That does not mean that I can do nothing however - I am their parent and I must teach them about God, but in the end their Christianity and their choices are up to God. That means that if they need more in depth studying of the Bible, if they need certain relationships to grow their faith and if they need to relate to people of higher or lower intelligence then God will see to it. He knows what they need and even if I look back at my own frustrations and the things that happened to me as a child and teenager and even though some of it was deeply hurtful and  what many would consider deeply damaging, I did not lose my faith in God - many of the people who taught me a lot about Christianity and faith were not deeply intellectual although as I said there were a number who were too.

 

It would be really nice to have a group where the hard questions could be discussed. However such a group would need to be run with a huge amount of prayer because especially on the internet, people do have different beliefs about certain things and in the end it comes down to what is really important. That is how Christians often hurt each other - by losing sight of what is truely important and following religious practices rather than forming a relationship with God and relationships with other people, arguing about things that destroy these relationships instead of building faith and hope in God.

 

I do not know of any such groups now, but if you do start one or find one, please let us know.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the OP brings up a good point and voiced many of my own concerns.  We recently joined a group for intellectually talented Christian kids, and it's been an *amazing* experience.  The woman who started it simply saw a need, couldn't find anything (book, website, group, *anything*) to address the needs of gifted Christian kids, so she started something to help meet their needs.  In the spirit of, "if you build it, they will come," I would encourage those who feel there is a need to start something.  The woman who started our group is very open to talking with others who want to start a group in their local area.  Feel free to message me if you are interested in contacting her.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the smartest guys I know got his PhD. in physics but then got called to be a Christian missionary in Asia. Last I heard he was living in Viet Nam and was loving the opportunity to spread the Gospel there.

 

Certain denominations have a very rich intellectual tradition and they can be found across the theological spectrum: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and some of the mainline Protestant denominations like Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. From what I've read of Martin Luther's and John Calvin's writings, I think they would be pretty disappointed in the anti-intellectualism strain found in many of the modern Protestant churches. I may not agree theologically with Luther or Calvin, but I respect them as Christian intellectuals. They were brilliant theologians even if I disagree with their arguments.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

xahm - I think I get where you are going with this. American Christianity tends to be quite experiential in worship style and beliefs. I had a clergyman once tell me "All that's important is that Jesus loves me this I know." He knew I have multiple graduate degrees in theology, but he saw it fit to denigrate all that anyways. 

 

And in youth groups, oh yes, don't you know that they are all supposed to be about funfunfun and if you talk about anything "hard" all the teens will run for the hills?  :001_rolleyes: Teens who want to talk theology and doctrine and gasp! metaphysics are Alien Spies. Or something.

 

For those who want to understand the finer points of Christian belief, it's frustrating. Especially so if they are bright and they naturally just have a need to Understand All The Things.

 

If this turns out to be your kids, and their needs aren't being met where they are, I think it is okay to "accelerate" this area of knowledge as well. Poke around at what Bible Study classes are held at different churches, and see if there's a weeknight study that is "rigorous" and clicks with your kids. Seminaries and theology departments at universities sometimes have lectures open to the public. As for forming your own "club" with other similar kids, I think it could work if you set it up as a book club. Pick hard and obscure books like The Discarded Image or Everlasting Man and you'll be sure to limit the membership.  ;)

 

Like X 1000.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your encouragement and reassurances. So many of you have found workable solutions in a variety of ways, and that helps me trust that if we get to the place where we need something like that, we will be able to find or form what our children need.  I can't believe I hadn't thought of some of them, like checking out local seminaries for lecture series. 

Our path ahead will surely have bumps, probably not the exact bumps we are expecting, but your words have helped me gain more confidence in navigating them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally identify with your concerns. I was a gifted Christian teen who felt isolated/lonely for quite a while as a kid/teen. My best periods were when I had a "kindred spirit" gifted best friend with whom I could discuss everything, including shared faith. I had a friend like that from 8th-10th and then my freshman year of college.

 

At my church Sunday School was repetitious and basic and many of my same-age peers were disinterested in deeper spiritual discussions. Youth group was actually deeper most of the time. One bright spot was my youth leader in 8th/9th was himself gifted. He started an additional, more intense Bible study that kind of self-selected down to 4-5 very bright or gifted, passionate teens. It required actual study/thought/written responses each week so many wouldn't commit to the "homework." Those who remained flourished. It was the first time I felt intellectually challenged in a spiritual setting and it was thrilling. After he moved away (military) I didn't really experience that again until Christian college, where I encountered a few classmates and professors with whom I really clicked.

 

In some ways attending Christan school had some unfortunate consequences. Apathetic teens or even teachers can turn Bible classes into a purely academic exercise, which then led to less meaningful study/discussion and more fill in the blanks and memorize this for the multiple choice test. Being passionate about studying and understanding Scripture was just one more thing that made me a nerd or goody-goody or teacher's pet to my classmates. Combating that attitude for years was difficult and discouraging.

 

One thing I wish I'd known about and had access to was church history and commentaries and books on theology. It seems so silly to me now how little I knew about what was out there, given that I was a voracious reader on a wide variety of topics, but I really encountered little of this until college, when I was giddy with wonder. Until then, most Bible teaching I encountered was topical, three points and a poem, workbooks, touchy-feely experiential stuff. As an adult I moved to a denomination that I think is more intellectual in some of its approaches to Christianity and I've found more intellectual peers with similar interests and passions.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's an important and valid question.    It doesn't really impact the homeschool-or-not question, as being in a ps or even a church school doesn't really solve the problem.  But it's one a lot of  us have had to deal with.    As a mom with older kids (20, 18, 14, and 11), I've had to deal with it a lot. Here are a few thoughts, in no particular order.

 

1.  Some years are easier than others.  A 6th grader in a 6th-8th grade class is far better off than an 8th grader in a 6th-8th class.   Even worse is when they are the ONLY 8th grader in a 6th-8th class!    At that point, there wasn't much my oldest could do but accept that it was one hour per week.  I have never forced my kids to go to youth group, in part for this reason.

 

2.  My kids have always known that they could ask any question to their dad or to me.   Most of their real spiritual formation came in this way, not though youth group.  It was just a fact of life.

 

3.  We had really good results with Awana, for the most part. However, one group they were in was really bad for my 2nd, in jr high.   You might have to look around a bit to find a group that will be a good fit.   (If your area has teen Awana groups, that is.)    The same might hold true for youth groups, as well--you might have to find a youth group somewhere different from your own church.  It's not ideal, but if the kids and the teaching are a better fit for your kids, it might be worth it.

 

4.  This is just what I've seen in my experience, but around me, the churches that are better able to handle this are the Reformed ones or Orthodox ones.  (Some are better than others, of course, but I seem to see more thoughtful discussions taking place there.)   

 

5.  One thing that has helped us is that our church is somewhat flexible about some things.  I have been able to bring my kids to adult Sunday school occasionally, eg, when there was a topic I thought they'd be interested in, and the year they were seniors (and the only senior in their class, too), I just let them go to adult classes.  Nobody said anything.  Some churches let kids do things like help teach Sunday school, too.    The year my oldest was a junior, she taught kids second hour (was the primary teacher, though she did have a very solid helper) second hour.  She was able to put up with not much benefit from first hour Sunday school because she knew that 2nd hour, she'd be challenged and be able to really serve.  

 

6.  I'm not a homeschool snob, but we did consistently find that the homeschooled kids around us were more serious about Christian things and more willing to discuss them in more depth than most of the other kids around us.  When we did Awana and such, one of the things I looked for was how many homeschooled kids were in the group.  It was a better fit for intellectual and spiritual reasons, not just social ones, for us if there were about 10% or more in a group.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree that this can be a real issue. I'm a Mormon, not a mainstream Christian, but there's definitely an issue of dodging the anti-intellectualism that a lot of church goers have. (Although in my perception, it's less in Mormonism than in most Christian denominations, as one of our apostles was a pioneer in open-heart surgery and another was a physicist. There are still some anti-science people, but the vast majority can deal with both science and religion being truth. So you could always send your kids to the Mormon youth programs. :D)

 

I would suggest that the best way to deal with this is to live somewhere close to a university of the denomination of your choice (or attend a congregation near a university). Most of the academia of a religion tend to be a little more reasonable about science and intellect than the mainstream masses, and thus one would assume their kids would be more open to these things. Barring that, try living in a high tech area, where the IQ of the population is higher overall, which would increase the chances of finding other gifted kids in your congregation.

 

I think this is not an unreasonable worry. I always wanted to talk deeper theology and got super bored of the superficial comprehension questions my Sunday School teachers would ask. Even the early morning seminary classes all Mormons attend during high school weren't deep enough for me. During high school, I sought out all kinds of online anti-Mormon message boards just so I could have someone to combat against. Deeper intellectual teaching at home may be a good way to combat this. Demand more from your kids (and yourself). Family book club sounds like a great plan.

 

Another option when they hit older teens is to just pull them into the adult program. I was so bored of the youth program for the last two years. I was so happy to join the adults halfway through my senior year.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are borrowing trouble. In fact, based on past posts, I think borrowing trouble is a personality trait of yours and maybe something you should try to work on. Life is hard enough, ya know? I'm not a gentle person, so I'm sorry if that comes off as harsh, but I think parenting/homeschooling/life in general might be easier for you if you could focus on the problems in front of you/a maximum year ahead. Honestly, that comes from a place of love and from a fellow inherent trouble-borrower. Work on this.

 

I do relate to not having intellectual peers within my church group as a child, however. I agree with other posters that it is a denominational problem. My husband, particularly, came from a Christian denomination that was aggressively anti-intelectual. I will not name names publicly, but you can PM me if this is something you need to discuss in particulars. My youth church wasn't as aggressive about it, but there was a mild yet general opinion that science, non-bible colleges, ect, were faith-risking endeavors and "regular, homespun" people were better Christians. It WAS painful for both of us, as if the choice to study, to go to university, ect would be leaving our faith. It made us live dual lives with a church-self and out-of-church self for many years. But I repeat, this is a denominational issue. Many denominations have rich intellectual backgrounds, and attract intellectual parishioners. If you are not currently in a church-family like that, it might be worthwhile considering finding one either in a new denomination, or just a new church within yours. For your OWN benefit, not for the possible problems your maybe-intellectual, maybe-struggling-socially, future children might have. I am honestly not that intellectual, and whenever we get a new member that ISNT a doctor or a professor of theology/history I yell "hallelujah, someone I can discuss Taylor Swift with." ;)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are borrowing trouble. In fact, based on past posts, I think borrowing trouble is a personality trait of yours and maybe something you should try to work on. Life is hard enough, ya know? I'm not a gentle person, so I'm sorry if that comes off as harsh, but I think parenting/homeschooling/life in general might be easier for you if you could focus on the problems in front of you/a maximum year ahead. Honestly, that comes from a place of love and from a fellow inherent trouble-borrower. Work on this.

 

Thanks for your concern. I know that worrying about things is part of my personality and have known if for a long time. When I was an adolescent, I "dealt with it" by having minor panic attacks. Now I deal with it by discussing it either with real life friends or online. Those discussions help me reframe things so I no longer see the issue as a problem. So when I come here occasionally with a concern, please don't picture me at home being worried to death. I've got a good life and not too many problems, really. My husband just works too much for me to be able to use him as a sounding board all the time and while caring for toddlers is very rewarding in many ways, it is good and healthy for me to think about other things. Maybe I should post more often about more mundane things so I give people a better picture of myself. Want to commiserate with me about a toddler who would rather cuddle in my bed than sleep in her own? (I've actually got that one covered. My kids are easy at the stage they are in, but they do like to push limits as cutely as possible)

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your concern. I know that worrying about things is part of my personality and have known if for a long time. When I was an adolescent, I "dealt with it" by having minor panic attacks. Now I deal with it by discussing it either with real life friends or online. Those discussions help me reframe things so I no longer see the issue as a problem. So when I come here occasionally with a concern, please don't picture me at home being worried to death. I've got a good life and not too many problems, really. My husband just works too much for me to be able to use him as a sounding board all the time and while caring for toddlers is very rewarding in many ways, it is good and healthy for me to think about other things. Maybe I should post more often about more mundane things so I give people a better picture of myself. Want to commiserate with me about a toddler who would rather cuddle in my bed than sleep in her own? (I've actually got that one covered. My kids are easy at the stage they are in, but they do like to push limits as cutely as possible)

 

I can totally relate to this. I don't frequent this board that much, so I don't know what your overall presence in this context is like.

 

Borrowing trouble can be reframed as borrowing solutions ahead of time in case you need them (not to disregard the PP's advice since it seems to be BTDT and heartfelt). Thankfully, I am in a situation where I'm finding more IRL people to be able to talk to about concerns and the troubles I borrow.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP, I get what you're saying. I agree what others said about certain denominations being more intellectual-friendly. The book club suggestion is a good one as well. Have you heard of BioLogos? I enjoy reading through the articles there. They sometimes do a "book club" where they give you a schedule and a free book if you decide to lead a local club: http://biologos.org/resources/book-club/lost-world-of-genesis-one

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP, your post struck a chord with me and helped me reflect on my own experience. Thanks for sharing this.

 

I have no solutions! As an academically strong student myself, I found it quite lonely at times. Still do in some circles. Some Christian environments are just more life-giving for intellectuals than others.

 

Honestly, I have found the WTM forums to be one of the best places for encouragement for me as a person of faith who is homeschooling some very bright kids. (That's not to say I'm a hermit, but I'm just careful about who I engage in what types of conversations.) I have learned so much from people who post on this board in particular -- parents who are also trying to find peers with similar interests, faith-based or otherwise, for their gifted kids. They inspire me to think creatively about this and keep me grounded. Because of them, I realize I'm not the only one dealing with this and take comfort in that. I think that there are a lot of similarities between a mama looking for peers for her kid who dreams in numbers or who is obsessed with birds ... or who is going to need to explore their faith at a much deeper level than the average child might.

 

And these forums give me hope, as you mentioned, that there may be more online options for our kids as they grow up. 

 

I hear you that when I post here, it's usually about challenges that I have few IRL friends to discuss with. I suppose if someone were reading my various posts they could draw conclusions about my personality traits or neuroses, but they definitely would not be getting the whole picture. As you said, I do have other real life little challenges (how can I get my dishwasher fixed?) and joys (my super-shy dd9 just performed in a piano competition and won!). Not stuff I bring here because I *can* chat about it with my friends and family. I keep bringing the harder stuff here because people here get it.

 

:grouphug:  It's a roller coaster. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hello Everyone.

 

I am brand new to this forum (and this raising gifted kids thing, though Hubby and I are both gifted). I actually joined this forum because the OP is just about describing my life to a TEE. We have two young sons aged two and five, who we haven't tested but strongly suspect are gifted. We are just about finished our first year of homeschooling, and we have to accelerate our son for the second year in a row because he is bored to tears. I'm just an odd duck any way you cut it, so I have had some very lonely periods in my life, and I don't want want my sons to be as lonely as I was if it can be helped. I would love to be involved in group like the OP suggests!

 

We just left a reformed baptist church because while the theology was sound, intelligent women were looked down upon because apparently women were only supposed to focus on cooking, cleaning and child rearing. I was actually ostracized at the end for being so different and for my refusal to conform with their ideas of what the perfect wife/mother should look like. Really sad situation. Anyway, I'm feeling very lonely right now because the one or two gifted people I've managed to find in our city, aren't Christians and so I don't really have anyone besides my husband that really get the whole me and that I can discuss theology with. At a doctors appointment for DS5 this week, I asked if there was much for gifted kids in our city, and the doctor told me that no, there's not much of anything (even secular). Wondering if maybe we should consider moving to a new city...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Everyone.

 

I am brand new to this forum (and this raising gifted kids thing, though Hubby and I are both gifted). I actually joined this forum because the OP is just about describing my life to a TEE. We have two young sons aged two and five, who we haven't tested but strongly suspect are gifted. We are just about finished our first year of homeschooling, and we have to accelerate our son for the second year in a row because he is bored to tears. I'm just an odd duck any way you cut it, so I have had some very lonely periods in my life, and I don't want want my sons to be as lonely as I was if it can be helped. I would love to be involved in group like the OP suggests!

 

We just left a reformed baptist church because while the theology was sound, intelligent women were looked down upon because apparently women were only supposed to focus on cooking, cleaning and child rearing. I was actually ostracized at the end for being so different and for my refusal to conform with their ideas of what the perfect wife/mother should look like. Really sad situation. Anyway, I'm feeling very lonely right now because the one or two gifted people I've managed to find in our city, aren't Christians and so I don't really have anyone besides my husband that really get the whole me and that I can discuss theology with. At a doctors appointment for DS5 this week, I asked if there was much for gifted kids in our city, and the doctor told me that no, there's not much of anything (even secular). Wondering if maybe we should consider moving to a new city...

Maybe visit this place.  Never been to this church, but I know that not all Reformed Evangelical Protestant churches are remotely similar to what you describe.  I am one of at least ten females at my church that hold either a BSEE, physics, or CS degree.  Besides the veterinarian and GP there are a handful of nurses and school teachers.  At the moment, I can only think of maybe 5 women that do not have a 4 year degree.  Even the women in our Crown Club all have degrees, teachers mostly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Everyone.

 

I am brand new to this forum (and this raising gifted kids thing, though Hubby and I are both gifted). I actually joined this forum because the OP is just about describing my life to a TEE. We have two young sons aged two and five, who we haven't tested but strongly suspect are gifted. We are just about finished our first year of homeschooling, and we have to accelerate our son for the second year in a row because he is bored to tears. I'm just an odd duck any way you cut it, so I have had some very lonely periods in my life, and I don't want want my sons to be as lonely as I was if it can be helped. I would love to be involved in group like the OP suggests!

 

We just left a reformed baptist church because while the theology was sound, intelligent women were looked down upon because apparently women were only supposed to focus on cooking, cleaning and child rearing. I was actually ostracized at the end for being so different and for my refusal to conform with their ideas of what the perfect wife/mother should look like. Really sad situation. Anyway, I'm feeling very lonely right now because the one or two gifted people I've managed to find in our city, aren't Christians and so I don't really have anyone besides my husband that really get the whole me and that I can discuss theology with. At a doctors appointment for DS5 this week, I asked if there was much for gifted kids in our city, and the doctor told me that no, there's not much of anything (even secular). Wondering if maybe we should consider moving to a new city...

. I liked your post because I'm glad you are here, not because I like your situation. I hope you can find something for your son that the doc doesn't know about. I'd write more but I'm writing on my phone now.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...