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s/o Helping and supporting *very* passionate kids


Greta
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How do you help and support a child who is so passionate about her chosen field that:

 

1. As a 15 year old high school freshman she already feels trapped and frustrated because the majority of her coursework is in other subject areas, and she has several more years of this ahead of her before she can start to "specialize"? (She wishes that she could be done with school and working already!)

 

2. Her interest is focused on a particular sub-field of her chosen field, and we can find no one in our small city who can help her with these very specific skills, and this reduces her to tears, on a regular basis!

 

She is just so different from the way I was at her age that sometimes I feel like I'm floundering here and don't know how to help her.

 

With regard to number 1, she knows that she has to just "suck it up" (her words) but knowing and doing are two different things. Originally, I had not considered community college, and was just planning on the traditional 4-year route. But now I am thinking that she should consider getting her associate's degree in her field (which is art, by the way) at the same time that she finishes her high school diploma. That way she can take more classes in areas that she's interested in, and feel like she's making some real progress toward her chosen career (graphic arts, digital arts, graphic design, whatever the proper term is). What do you think?

 

With regard to number 2, this is probably too much specialization at her age, but what can you say to a child who knows what she wants, with her whole being? I've even talked to my husband about planning our family vacation this year around a place where she could get a few private lessons in this very specific style of drawing. She was unenthusiastic about the idea because while she would enjoy that very much, a week or two later we'd be back in the current situation where she feels like she desperately wants to improve her skills, but has no one to help her. So she thinks she would be wasting our money. I don't feel that way - I think even a week or two without the tears would be worth every penny!

 

She's very talented, but she looks at the work of people who do this for a living, and she feels very inadequate by comparison. I try to reassure her that she's only 15, they've been practicing a lot longer, she will build her skills with time and practice, etc. but it's no comfort to her. She wants to be that good right now, and she wants to be doing that work right now. I just didn't have anywhere near that passion or drive at her age, or possibly ever in my life, so I don't know how to help her.

 

This turned out a lot longer than I intended. If anyone read all of that, then thank you! :)

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Something to consider for her sub-speciality is an online mentor. The internet is a wonderful thing these days! My middle ds, when he went through his severe herpetology stage for which there was NOTHING local that could feed his passion, found a teaching assistant, biology student who worked in the herp lab at the University of Michigan who would Skype with him, and mentor projects long distance. This helped ds a lot.

 

Eventually we found a local DNR officer who took an interest which was great.

 

Is she homeschooling? If so, hop over the high school board. There are a lot of us over there that have had a student specialize during high school, and we've found unique ways to provide the core, and interweave the passions with that core, making electives in particular revolve around the passion or include it in some way.

 

As for too young? Nah....I was four when I began crying myself to sleep at night because I wasn't taking piano lessons yet. It never waned. I have a BA in piano performance, and one in music education, and am working on a master's slowly but surely in musicology though occasionally I vacillate and think I should switch to music therapy. For some kids, that kind of passion is practically inbred in their genes, LOL! I was one of those. All four of my kids fall into that category so yikes, that has been a challenge for certain!

 

Just so you know, self confidence issues and sometimes even depression can go hand in hand with some of this. You need to watch for that. My parents were pretty wise to get some intervention once when I basically stopped eating and tried practicing 8 hours per day while mentally beating myself up for not achieving perfection on a particular piece of music. Yah....I needed some help seeing reality and embracing it. So, definitely intervene if you need to, but encourage her that you really, really want to support her interests and do not consider it money down a hole to pay for whatever services you can get for her. Kids need to know that their parents do not resent the costs. If it's prohibitive, then explain why and look at other options. When I had a full music studio, I did offer some scholarships, and once allowed a woman to clean my house for four straight years in exchange for piano lessons for her very talented daughter. She even started dinner for me, and often baked a dessert on piano days. It was a win-win for us, and her daughter ended up majoring in music education is a very talented high school band director so it was a very satisfying outcome. Ask around about things like that. Be honest about your needs. Some people will help. Some won't. It doesn't hurt to be up front, and get creative with solutions.

 

Again though, Skype is a wonderful thing and you might find someone long distance who can help with the mentoring process.

 

Also, if art is her thing, you could also funnel some of the energy into art history so she has a background for her passion. The Great Courses has many lovely lecture series on the subject. My artistic boy adored Masterpieces of the Louvre, How to Look at and Understand Great Art, The Italian Renaissance, etc. Some of those courses are on sale right now. If you homeschool, you can cobble them together for credit too. Check with a good community college to because the one an hour from our house offered a wonderful summer two week art camp for budding artists that was run by the instructors and was VERY affordable. Signing up for something like that could give her something to really look forward to and help her feel like progress is on the horizon.

 

Remind her that the hive says that those who do art for a living. generally have degrees so post high school training, and a LOT of experience that no 15 year old can have. Remind her that it's not as if Leonardo da Vinci, Monet, or Van Gogh were famous and making a living at art at 15 regardless of their genius. It takes time. Cultivating patience is very, very important. Raw talent takes time to develop.

 

If you are commuting distance to a city such as Detroit, Chicago, etc., also check into their activities. The DIA has had for years drawing in the galleries which students could participate in and guaranteed some one on one instruction from a local, known artist. Ds did that several times and they charged nothing more than general admission which for him as a student was less than 8 dollars. We kept the cost low by eating before we left, taking a snack to eat in the car, and parking where it was free and hiking down to the museum. There are many, many art institutes that run free and low cost activities for students.

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Even if she works towards improving her skills she still would need a degree to actually get a job.  We have an entire department of Graphic Artists in my company and all of them have at least a BA.  If they didn't they would not have been considered for employment.  An associates degree is also an option but it could limit employment options after graduation.

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Poor DD! It's very cool that she has such passion. Has she researched the field? That would be a good step to understanding the breadth of skills really needed. Help her understand that graphic design is a highly competitive field, even for talented artists, and the more secondary skills she has, the more likely she is to find work in her passion.Some thoughts...

 

1. Math: Graphic designers are often asked to create displays that visually represent mathematical - esp. statistical - information. She needs decent math skills, and a good high school statistics course would be useful. Maybe she will be an independent artist - she will need good math skills to do business taxes.  

 

2. Language arts: graphic arts is all about communicating ideas, not just making pretty graphics. Strong language arts abilities enhance communication abilities. A background in things like mythology, fables, and historical events - cultural literacy - is useful in choosing the right symbols to convey an idea or market a product. (As an engineer, I often went to one of our graphic designers with a concept and expected him or her to be able to conceive of the symbols and relationships that accurately presented the concept and created the right impression.)

 

3. Science: A strong science background could be an entre to doing graphics related to marketing technology products or supporting research.

 

4. Business/marketing - I assume she wants to make a profession of graphic design? Then it would be wise to take some high school level courses to understand how businesses operate. Beautiful artwork alone will not be enough, you need to understand the a businesses needs and goals.

 

5. Resources for her - no warm body locally, but are there any Internet groups she could join? People who dabble in graphic design either for fun or professionally and share ideas? Any online classes?

 

6. A wild thought - is there a small store or business in your area that she thinks has a terrible logo? A charitable organization? A youth club? Approach them and ask if they would like her to craft something new - for free. Have her work with the business or group to understand the image they want to present to learn how to take that input and translate it into graphics.Good luck!

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Look at classes like Coursera, MIT open course, Saylor.org, some of these might have art classes. 

 

We're in a similar boat with ds' interest, no time or $ to put toward furthering his interest. He's going to college in the fall, a year earlier than planned, but he's ready to move on. If he changes his mind, he's got options at the college. 

 

I gave ds basically free reign on the Internet several years ago, he has found sources to help him that I could never have found - and I have good google skills. Youtube has so much good stuff. 

 

The component missing from ds's interest has been feedback from professionals. It's just an consequence of where we live and our budget. I've made sure he has free to pursue his interests and guarded those as if he were involved in outside commitments. It's allowed him to add knowledge, explore, and take ownership of his interest. 

 

As far as a teenager knowing what they want, ds has been pretty set on his interest since about 15 the other since about 12. Years of other interests have led to this point, so it wasn't simply out of the blue at those ages. Thinking back to my childhood, I knew what I wanted to do at that age. I blew it off because no one was supporting me and I came to think it was just a foolish dream of a child. 30+ years later, I'm still interested in the same thing. 

 

I remind ds that these interests (which could lead to a lifestyle and a career) are not set in stone. While they are good goals, they will require a lot of work and he may change his mind, that's okay too. We discuss alternatives and what those might look like. IOW, I make sure he knows it's okay to explore these options seriously, but if he decides they aren't right for him at any step of the process, that's okay. They are HIS goals, not mine. 

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Faith, thank you so much! The online mentor is a fantastic idea. Plus, somehow it just helps so much to talk to someone who went through this herself, and has passionate kids too. Really, I can't thank you enough for your post!

 

Just so you know, self confidence issues and sometimes even depression can go hand in hand with some of this. You need to watch for that.

I appreciate you mentioning this, because I have been a bit worried about it. The combination of the intense passion and perfectionism, an extremely sensitive and introverted personality, and teenage hormones is a lot for her to deal with.

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Even if she works towards improving her skills she still would need a degree to actually get a job. We have an entire department of Graphic Artists in my company and all of them have at least a BA. If they didn't they would not have been considered for employment. An associates degree is also an option but it could limit employment options after graduation.

Thank you so much for posting this, because it confirms what I suspected. I'm sorry I wasn't clear, but I meant only getting the AA degree as a step toward a BA - something that could get her started earier, but NOT as the end of her education. It still might not be the best idea, though. I honestly don't know!

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Poor DD! It's very cool that she has such passion. Has she researched the field? That would be a good step to understanding the breadth of skills really needed. Help her understand that graphic design is a highly competitive field, even for talented artists, and the more secondary skills she has, the more likely she is to find work in her passion.Some thoughts...

 

1. Math: Graphic designers are often asked to create displays that visually represent mathematical - esp. statistical - information. She needs decent math skills, and a good high school statistics course would be useful. Maybe she will be an independent artist - she will need good math skills to do business taxes.

 

2. Language arts: graphic arts is all about communicating ideas, not just making pretty graphics. Strong language arts abilities enhance communication abilities. A background in things like mythology, fables, and historical events - cultural literacy - is useful in choosing the right symbols to convey an idea or market a product. (As an engineer, I often went to one of our graphic designers with a concept and expected him or her to be able to conceive of the symbols and relationships that accurately presented the concept and created the right impression.)

 

3. Science: A strong science background could be an entre to doing graphics related to marketing technology products or supporting research.

 

4. Business/marketing - I assume she wants to make a profession of graphic design? Then it would be wise to take some high school level courses to understand how businesses operate. Beautiful artwork alone will not be enough, you need to understand the a businesses needs and goals.

 

5. Resources for her - no warm body locally, but are there any Internet groups she could join? People who dabble in graphic design either for fun or professionally and share ideas? Any online classes?

 

6. A wild thought - is there a small store or business in your area that she thinks has a terrible logo? A charitable organization? A youth club? Approach them and ask if they would like her to craft something new - for free. Have her work with the business or group to understand the image they want to present to learn how to take that input and translate it into graphics.Good luck!

This is WONDERFUL! I'm going to print it out and give it to her. Thank you!

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Look at classes like Coursera, MIT open course, Saylor.org, some of these might have art classes.

Thank you, I'll look into those!

 

As far as a teenager knowing what they want, ds has been pretty set on his interest since about 15 the other since about 12. Years of other interests have led to this point, so it wasn't simply out of the blue at those ages. Thinking back to my childhood, I knew what I wanted to do at that age. I blew it off because no one was supporting me and I came to think it was just a foolish dream of a child. 30+ years later, I'm still interested in the same thing.

 

I remind ds that these interests (which could lead to a lifestyle and a career) are not set in stone. While they are good goals, they will require a lot of work and he may change his mind, that's okay too. We discuss alternatives and what those might look like. IOW, I make sure he knows it's okay to explore these options seriously, but if he decides they aren't right for him at any step of the process, that's okay. They are HIS goals, not mine.

We've had similar talks. I knew from a pretty young age that science was my favorite subject, and that has never changed. But I did change my mind about which particular field of science I wanted to go into. I guess that's why I'm hesitant to allow her to specialize too much at such a young age. I want her to keep her options open, and to build a broad foundation, if that makes sense. But I also want to encourage and support her particular interests. Hopefully we can find the right balance!

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

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I agree with finding mentoring. ONe thing that has helped my DD quite a bit was becoming involved in professional/serious hobbyist communities online. Since she was 7 at the time we started that, I'd subscribe and send my explanation to the moderators, and then we "share" an account. This led to connecting with people who, after seeing her participate in discussions, were willing to mentor and work with her, and to her, slowly, becoming "known" in that world as a kid who WAS interested and focused. You can also usually do student memberships to professional organizations with documentation-if you have to register with your state or with a cover school, a copy of whatever confirmation you get of registration usually does the trick. Going to conferences and professional group meetings is a lifesaver for my DD>

 

The other thing I'd suggest is finding a place to use her skills. A non-profit, for example, usually isn't going to turn down a volunteer to help make their newsletters/websites look better, because often they can't afford to hire a pro. And sometimes, through such groups, you can actually connect with mentors in other areas (for example, through DD's herp advocacy group, DD's gotten help in website design, blogging, photography, marketing, etc-because guess what these folks do as their day jobs?)

 

I understand having the kid who wants to specialize ASAP. My comment is that my DD doesn't want to do early entry to college-she wants to go straight to a PhD, do not pass high school, masters, or bachelor's! What I'm trying to stress is that this time, right now, is a gift, and it's up to her how to divide it. It's not a case of "I have to wait ALL THESE YEARS", but a case of "I have all these years to develop my skills and interests and explore before I'm locked in to one path".

 

 

 

 

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I agree with finding mentoring. ONe thing that has helped my DD quite a bit was becoming involved in professional/serious hobbyist communities online. Since she was 7 at the time we started that, I'd subscribe and send my explanation to the moderators, and then we "share" an account. This led to connecting with people who, after seeing her participate in discussions, were willing to mentor and work with her, and to her, slowly, becoming "known" in that world as a kid who WAS interested and focused. You can also usually do student memberships to professional organizations with documentation-if you have to register with your state or with a cover school, a copy of whatever confirmation you get of registration usually does the trick. Going to conferences and professional group meetings is a lifesaver for my DD>

 

The other thing I'd suggest is finding a place to use her skills. A non-profit, for example, usually isn't going to turn down a volunteer to help make their newsletters/websites look better, because often they can't afford to hire a pro. And sometimes, through such groups, you can actually connect with mentors in other areas (for example, through DD's herp advocacy group, DD's gotten help in website design, blogging, photography, marketing, etc-because guess what these folks do as their day jobs?)

 

I understand having the kid who wants to specialize ASAP. My comment is that my DD doesn't want to do early entry to college-she wants to go straight to a PhD, do not pass high school, masters, or bachelor's! What I'm trying to stress is that this time, right now, is a gift, and it's up to her how to divide it. It's not a case of "I have to wait ALL THESE YEARS", but a case of "I have all these years to develop my skills and interests and explore before I'm locked in to one path".

Thank you for all of this! The bolded is an especially good and needed perspective change.

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For my DD, I am preparing her academically for college and a business oriented career. I have let her know that she needs to keep her education balanced, but as long as she does the minimum she is free to study art the rest of the time. 

 

There are excellent online art lessons that you might try to access.  Also, for an older child I would consider summer vacations or camps where she can be with other artists. Let your DD know that the connections she makes will last well past the vacation.  There is a wonderful institute in Gatlinburg, but it does mostly classes during the school year.  If there are museums or galleries within driving distance, consider working out a plan for mentorship in a year's time when she is old enough to drive.  We have a thriving artist community about 45 minutes away from here that we will take advantage of as soon as DD is old enough.  Your state probably has an artists' guild of some sort (ours has several regional ones).  Get plugged into the culture now so you can help your DD make those connections.

 

My DD is showing at an arts and crafts fair this weekend.  It is $45 for a small booth.  I will offer some knit items, but I am betting DD's paintings will be what sells. And, if we don't make money, it is still a learning experience and a way for her to get her work seen by fellow artisans who may be future contacts. 

 

Given the number of adults who don't understand computers (still) your graphic arts DD could probably start a business and be making $ now.  Local print shops and sign shops all use computer based systems now.  Have her research some existing companies and see how they do it and what services they offer. 

 

 

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  I've even talked to my husband about planning our family vacation this year around a place where she could get a few private lessons in this very specific style of drawing. She was unenthusiastic about the idea because while she would enjoy that very much, a week or two later we'd be back in the current situation where she feels like she desperately wants to improve her skills, but has no one to help her. So she thinks she would be wasting our money.  

 

I wonder if there's some fear involved here? Dreams can be scary up close, and planning your vacation around it might be making it into an even bigger deal in her mind, like everyone will have expectations for her to learn and improve so much with these few lessons. 

 

Please note that I am not at all saying you implied anything of that nature, just that it seems like a very typical fear for a teen to have. 

 

Maybe don't argue the point with her, but then just say, oh, we've decided to go there anyway, it's such a cool place and we want to do x, y, and z. Then you could bring it up again closer to the time you would have to schedule lessons: as we're going anyway, you want to go ahead and do this? It's not a waste of money if you have funny - we'll be on vacation! 

 

That's assuming the destination does indeed have a few other things going for it, lol. 

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Originally, I had not considered community college, and was just planning on the traditional 4-year route. But now I am thinking that she should consider getting her associate's degree in her field (which is art, by the way) at the same time that she finishes her high school diploma. That way she can take more classes in areas that she's interested in, and feel like she's making some real progress toward her chosen career (graphic arts, digital arts, graphic design, whatever the proper term is). What do you think?

 

 

My daughter started taking one art class per semester at the community college when she was 10 1/2, and now at twelve she is still at the community college and has plans to continue with classes until ... well, I guess until she graduates.  My son started a 3D graphics class a few months before his tenth birthday.  For both children the community college environment has been encouraging and confidence building, and both enjoy being in classrooms with people like them (taller and older but still interested in the same subjects).  I've dabbled in online classes but the community college offers physicality; being physically present with other students and being able to ask questions of a live teacher has meant a lot.

 

So, dual enrollment might be a consideration.  It wouldn't hurt to ask for a tour of the community college and meet someone in the graphics department.  Even if the two of you decide classes aren't an option at least you could get information about required classes, degree requirements and job availability after graduation.

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I wonder if there's some fear involved here? Dreams can be scary up close, and planning your vacation around it might be making it into an even bigger deal in her mind, like everyone will have expectations for her to learn and improve so much with these few lessons.

 

Please note that I am not at all saying you implied anything of that nature, just that it seems like a very typical fear for a teen to have.

 

Maybe don't argue the point with her, but then just say, oh, we've decided to go there anyway, it's such a cool place and we want to do x, y, and z. Then you could bring it up again closer to the time you would have to schedule lessons: as we're going anyway, you want to go ahead and do this? It's not a waste of money if you have funny - we'll be on vacation!

 

That's assuming the destination does indeed have a few other things going for it, lol.

Thank you, this is such a great insight. I didn't think about that possibility at all, but I can absolutely see how she might be thinking that way (even if she doesn't consciously realize it). I appreciate your advice!

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My daughter started taking one art class per semester at the community college when she was 10 1/2, and now at twelve she is still at the community college and has plans to continue with classes until ... well, I guess until she graduates. My son started a 3D graphics class a few months before his tenth birthday. For both children the community college environment has been encouraging and confidence building, and both enjoy being in classrooms with people like them (taller and older but still interested in the same subjects). I've dabbled in online classes but the community college offers physicality; being physically present with other students and being able to ask questions of a live teacher has meant a lot.

 

So, dual enrollment might be a consideration. It wouldn't hurt to ask for a tour of the community college and meet someone in the graphics department. Even if the two of you decide classes aren't an option at least you could get information about required classes, degree requirements and job availability after graduation.

Oh, yay, this is very encouraging to hear about your kids' great experiences with CC. Thanks!

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My 11 year old could be this. I finally found a place that meets his needs about an hour away. I was looking up to two and a half hours away and am thrilled I found this. Their website mentioned nothing about the work they do that is my sons interest. It had only horribly outdated information and a class description that my son would have cried over. I knew they did more because I had been there many years ago. I finally just drove him there and he found someone and asked. It fits his needs and he is excited to get started.

 

Keep at it! Check out local universities in addition to CC.

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My 11 year old could be this. I finally found a place that meets his needs about an hour away. I was looking up to two and a half hours away and am thrilled I found this. Their website mentioned nothing about the work they do that is my sons interest. It had only horribly outdated information and a class description that my son would have cried over. I knew they did more because I had been there many years ago. I finally just drove him there and he found someone and asked. It fits his needs and he is excited to get started.

 

Keep at it! Check out local universities in addition to CC.

I'm so glad you found something for him! I'll keep searching. And yes it finally dawned on me that we have a whole university in this city, not just the CC. :) (I'm slow sometimes!)
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I just had to share that we got some fun news today.  Skye's art teacher emailed her to let her know there would be a special guest at the next class to teach them about her favorite form of art!  Yay!  So, if he's a local, we might have a potential local private tutor after all. (Though he may just be visiting from out of town, I have no idea.)

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My 11 year old could be this. I finally found a place that meets his needs about an hour away. I was looking up to two and a half hours away and am thrilled I found this. Their website mentioned nothing about the work they do that is my sons interest. 

 

Why are you people always keeping me in suspense? Tell us what his interest is already, lol! 

 

I just had to share that we got some fun news today.  Skye's art teacher emailed her to let her know there would be a special guest at the next class to teach them about her favorite form of art!  Yay!  So, if he's a local, we might have a potential local private tutor after all. (Though he may just be visiting from out of town, I have no idea.)

 

Awesome! Even if he's out of town, maybe he's not too far, and you could take her every other week or something. 

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Why are you people always keeping me in suspense? Tell us what his interest is already, lol! 

 

 

I did not because it really is not relevant. It is very uncommon for our area and very specialized. For some it would be common due to where they live. It could be anything. The leg work still has to be put in. The mileage is still an issue. The distance and resources still have to be dug for. A university is the best bet for many highly specific areas of interests all over the country. Even if they do not have anything for that specific area, they may have something close and probably have more resources in which to direct someone.

 

My advice for all looking for something very specific:

 

Find general resources near you

 

Look at their website, but show up in person to ask. Do not assume a website is up to date. Ask questions and see if they can point you to something even more specific. Make connections.

 

Look up related departments at universities and community colleges. Call or e-mail. Ask to set up an in person meeting. Ask more questions. Make connections.

 

If there is an amateur group near you, join. Make connections. 

 

Start searching near by areas that are within your comfort for driving. Call or go visit. Make connections. 

 

Expand even further. Call or go visit. Make connections. 

 

If my budget will allow this spring I plan to contact all places along our driving route that may have what my son is interested in. I plan to ask if my son can talk with someone who specializes in it. I am lucky that I will be able to divert our travels up to 4 hours each way to meet and talk with experts in the field he is interested in. And make connections. I found a place he really wants to go visit that is exactly what he wants, but it is too far from where we are going. I am going to try for it, but I think it would end up being a trip by itself.

 

I have found people tend to get excited about talking about their passions with others, especially young people.

 

Always follow up. Have your child send a thank you for taking time to talk to me e-mail and have them ask if they hear of anything interesting in that area if they will send it along. Make connections. Keep in touch.

 

Not easy and does require some $$, but mostly a lot of time.

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My youngest is like this. He's been drawing since he could hold a pencil. He's drawing a Superman logo right now, as I type, he's 7. Some days he can draw for 12+ hours a day. I just let him. We do math every weekday and he can read well and write his letters. I don't bother him too much with other subjects because he just loves to draw. We own a print shop and I could see him taking over.

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How do you help and support a child who is so passionate about her chosen field that:

 

1. As a 15 year old high school freshman she already feels trapped and frustrated because the majority of her coursework is in other subject areas, and she has several more years of this ahead of her before she can start to "specialize"? (She wishes that she could be done with school and working already!)

 

She is not alone. Many kids in the arts feel this way. Getting her involved in any artists group will help her find people to commiserate with. Many artists struggle with this even as adults because you have to work a second job for years before you make it.

 

2. Her interest is focused on a particular sub-field of her chosen field, and we can find no one in our small city who can help her with these very specific skills, and this reduces her to tears, on a regular basis!

 

Okay well, there's passionate and there's 15. I was crying on a regular basis because I thought I wouldn't get to go to college. Make sure she eats healthy.

 

She is just so different from the way I was at her age that sometimes I feel like I'm floundering here and don't know how to help her.

 

With regard to number 1, she knows that she has to just "suck it up" (her words) but knowing and doing are two different things. Originally, I had not considered community college, and was just planning on the traditional 4-year route. But now I am thinking that she should consider getting her associate's degree in her field (which is art, by the way) at the same time that she finishes her high school diploma. That way she can take more classes in areas that she's interested in, and feel like she's making some real progress toward her chosen career (graphic arts, digital arts, graphic design, whatever the proper term is). What do you think?

 

I think getting an associate's in graphic design is a very wise choice. It is a fickle field and salaries can start low (though they also go high). Beginning with less debt and hard skills could be a great idea and would also allow her to build a strong portfolio if she feels she needs to go further.

 

With regard to number 2, this is probably too much specialization at her age, but what can you say to a child who knows what she wants, with her whole being?

 

I don't think it's too much specialization at 15. I think having her set a goal--you can continue to take courses X, Y, and Z so long as you are finishing A, B, and C, the latter being core high school courses, is reasonable. Like, high school is not an option. But yes you are growing up so lets get you to your passion.

 

I've even talked to my husband about planning our family vacation this year around a place where she could get a few private lessons in this very specific style of drawing. She was unenthusiastic about the idea because while she would enjoy that very much, a week or two later we'd be back in the current situation where she feels like she desperately wants to improve her skills, but has no one to help her. So she thinks she would be wasting our money. I don't feel that way - I think even a week or two without the tears would be worth every penny!

 

Would it be totally back, though? At least she'd see a light at the end of the tunnel and feel supported and develop some relationships.

 

I try to reassure her that she's only 15, they've been practicing a lot longer, she will build her skills with time and practice, etc. but it's no comfort to her. She wants to be that good right now, and she wants to be doing that work right now. I just didn't have anywhere near that passion or drive at her age, or possibly ever in my life, so I don't know how to help her.

 

She needs a real mentor because this to me is the only concerning thing here. She just needs to get over that and start producing and she also needs to learn not to compare like that, not just because of her age. What she is looking for is outside validation of her talent and she needs to find a voice she can have faith in herself to be able to sell herself. At 15 she is growing that.

I was very passionate at 15. One thing I think that was helpful was having adults other than my parents to coach me through. I could have used more coaching in my passion. I had plenty of time to write novellas. At our local school, many kids do annual and take a graphic design pre-professional track from age 16 on. So long as they finish their college-preparatory classes they can start working as soon as they want, and some do. Many win national awards but touring the school DSD said they stay for hours and hours after school doing this. It's pretty amazing.

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How do you help and support a child who is so passionate about her chosen field that:

 

1. As a 15 year old high school freshman she already feels trapped and frustrated because the majority of her coursework is in other subject areas, and she has several more years of this ahead of her before she can start to "specialize"? (She wishes that she could be done with school and working already!)

 

 

Continue your researches into a degree in England: see what they would need from her as far as a general education, and beyond that let her specialise.

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Thank you Jennifer and Katie! :)

 

She needs a real mentor because this to me is the only concerning thing here. She just needs to get over that and start producing and she also needs to learn not to compare like that, not just because of her age. What she is looking for is outside validation of her talent and she needs to find a voice she can have faith in herself to be able to sell herself. At 15 she is growing that.

Thank you so much for this insight. This is such a good point. She's gotten past the stage in her life where encouragement from Mom and Dad is enough.

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Continue your researches into a degree in England: see what they would need from her as far as a general education, and beyond that let her specialise.

Yes, we are definititely still looking into that, because she still has her heart set on it! I am trying to help her see that since her dream is to study in London, she needs to be doing x, y, z to maximize her chances of that dream becoming reality. She really can't give up on "gen ed" type courses yet, whether she goes to college in the US or the UK. I think knowing that helps a bit, though she still isn't exactly thrilled about it. :) Thank you, Laura, for this and also for all of your help in getting us on that road to figuring out how she might be able to go to school in the UK.

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Yes, we are definititely still looking into that, because she still has her heart set on it! I am trying to help her see that since her dream is to study in London, she needs to be doing x, y, z to maximize her chances of that dream becoming reality. She really can't give up on "gen ed" type courses yet, whether she goes to college in the US or the UK. I think knowing that helps a bit, though she still isn't exactly thrilled about it. :) Thank you, Laura, for this and also for all of your help in getting us on that road to figuring out how she might be able to go to school in the UK.

 

It's really hard.  Because Calvin was doing the IB, he wasn't able to specialise as early (16) as some people here do.  He had to carry on doing maths and biology until age 18.  I don't think that was a bad thing, but he got some poor marks on the way through.  Luckily for him, a lot of his grade was based on final exams, and he pulled the stops out once he had a particular university and course in view.

 

I think that firming up her ideal future might help: showing her exactly what she needs to do to be allowed to specialise in the way that she wants.  Perhaps visiting a nearby university that might work for her (if there is one) so that she can visualise what she is working towards - university visits made an enormous difference to Calvin.

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I just want to reiterate earlier statements that graphic design has a lot involved from other subjects, even if she doesn't understand that right now.  I've known someone who went to art school early after getting a GED so she could skip the other stuff.  She found she didn't have the math skills to hack graphic design.

 

That said, I think if she could show me she could study for and pass CLEP exams and test out of the general stuff, I'd let her get a GED and take art classes.  Once she has an AA a university won't care about that sort of thing.  Going for a 4-year degree instead of high school would be non-negotiable though.

 

I went to college early.  In my 20's I regretted it, but the older I get the more happy I am with the whole program.  The fact is, being at an age where you feel like an adult, but are as powerless as a child is incredibly frustrating. Getting past that, having goals, having something to work for, might be a very good thing.  But I would insist on a few things first.  She'd need to CLEP out of her two most hated subjects so I could tell she really was intent on working towards a goal, and not just complaining about her assignments.  And secondly, I would have her agree that she would take business as a second major with art because I have the strong feeling that she's not going to like graphic design either.  She wants to be an artist.  And it's very possible to make very good money as an artist, but not if she doesn't have a good solid head for business.  And if I was wrong, and she did go into graphic design, it's incredibly probable that at some point she'd want to make more than $30-40K.  Maybe she'd want to start her own design firm.  Maybe she'd want a promotion to management.  Either way, she needs a head for business.

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How do you help and support a child who is so passionate about her chosen field that:

 

1. As a 15 year old high school freshman she already feels trapped and frustrated because the majority of her coursework is in other subject areas, and she has several more years of this ahead of her before she can start to "specialize"? (She wishes that she could be done with school and working already!)

 

2. Her interest is focused on a particular sub-field of her chosen field, and we can find no one in our small city who can help her with these very specific skills, and this reduces her to tears, on a regular basis!

 

She is just so different from the way I was at her age that sometimes I feel like I'm floundering here and don't know how to help her.

 

With regard to number 1, she knows that she has to just "suck it up" (her words) but knowing and doing are two different things. Originally, I had not considered community college, and was just planning on the traditional 4-year route. But now I am thinking that she should consider getting her associate's degree in her field (which is art, by the way) at the same time that she finishes her high school diploma. That way she can take more classes in areas that she's interested in, and feel like she's making some real progress toward her chosen career (graphic arts, digital arts, graphic design, whatever the proper term is). What do you think?

 

With regard to number 2, this is probably too much specialization at her age, but what can you say to a child who knows what she wants, with her whole being? I've even talked to my husband about planning our family vacation this year around a place where she could get a few private lessons in this very specific style of drawing. She was unenthusiastic about the idea because while she would enjoy that very much, a week or two later we'd be back in the current situation where she feels like she desperately wants to improve her skills, but has no one to help her. So she thinks she would be wasting our money. I don't feel that way - I think even a week or two without the tears would be worth every penny!

 

She's very talented, but she looks at the work of people who do this for a living, and she feels very inadequate by comparison. I try to reassure her that she's only 15, they've been practicing a lot longer, she will build her skills with time and practice, etc. but it's no comfort to her. She wants to be that good right now, and she wants to be doing that work right now. I just didn't have anywhere near that passion or drive at her age, or possibly ever in my life, so I don't know how to help her.

 

This turned out a lot longer than I intended. If anyone read all of that, then thank you! :)

 

I could have written all of this.  It's exactly my 15 year old daughter.  She is an artist who draws/paints anime and is making her own manga.  Is this what your daughter does as well?  She is teaching herself Japanese, she is interested is cosplay as well.

 

She can find no one with her interests.  We are a bit in hillbilly land, moving to FL from CT (8 years ago) where she would have had much more opportunities and probably more likely find people with the same interests.  It's just not happening down here in small town Bible Belt.

 

She gets very depressed and I keep telling her as she gets older she will find people who share her interests.  I've looked high and low for an instructor to help her hone her skills but have found nothing.  She took "art" classes a year ago and had more talent than the teacher and I'm not saying that to be rude, it was a fact. 

 

Anyway, everything you said hits home.  It's hard to support them when they feel like they aren't getting anywhere in their passion.  I provide all the art supplies/manga/books she wants and tell her to just practice, practice, practice.  I don't know what else to do.

 

 

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She found she didn't have the math skills to hack graphic design.

Wow, that's a bit of a surprise. What type/level of math skills are needed for graphic design? I will look into this more.

 

That said, I think if she could show me she could study for and pass CLEP exams and test out of the general stuff, I'd let her get a GED and take art classes. Once she has an AA a university won't care about that sort of thing. Going for a 4-year degree instead of high school would be non-negotiable though.

This (GED) is something I had not considered. Is that not a black mark on her record, not having a high school diploma?

 

I went to college early. In my 20's I regretted it, but the older I get the more happy I am with the whole program. The fact is, being at an age where you feel like an adult, but are as powerless as a child is incredibly frustrating. Getting past that, having goals, having something to work for, might be a very good thing. But I would insist on a few things first. She'd need to CLEP out of her two most hated subjects so I could tell she really was intent on working towards a goal, and not just complaining about her assignments. And secondly, I would have her agree that she would take business as a second major with art because I have the strong feeling that she's not going to like graphic design either. She wants to be an artist. And it's very possible to make very good money as an artist, but not if she doesn't have a good solid head for business. And if I was wrong, and she did go into graphic design, it's incredibly probable that at some point she'd want to make more than $30-40K. Maybe she'd want to start her own design firm. Maybe she'd want a promotion to management. Either way, she needs a head for business.

That's a very good idea about getting a business degree too! I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense! Thank you.

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I could have written all of this. It's exactly my 15 year old daughter. She is an artist who draws/paints anime and is making her own manga. Is this what your daughter does as well? She is teaching herself Japanese, she is interested is cosplay as well.

Yes! (Manga, anime, video game graphics, all that stuff) I was a little hesitant to say, because I think that people generally think that she'll outgrow this interest (maybe, but maybe not) or that it's not the kind of thing you can make a living at. I know that few people do, but I honestly think she has a shot. I wish we could get our daughters together!!! But we're in New Mexico. :(

 

I provide all the art supplies/manga/books she wants and tell her to just practice, practice, practice. I don't know what else to do.

I hear ya!

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Wow, that's a bit of a surprise. What type/level of math skills are needed for graphic design? I will look into this more.

 

 

This (GED) is something I had not considered. Is that not a black mark on her record, not having a high school diploma?

 

 

That's a very good idea about getting a business degree too! I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense! Thank you.

 

Here's a link to a forum discussing math needed in graphic design.  The names of the software have changed somewhat since 2008, but the math skills haven't.  http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/forum/graphic-design/general/35401-math-in-graphic-design

 

About half the kids that went to that early college program with me never bothered with a high school diploma.  Who even asks about high school once you have a college degree?  No one unless she joins the military or FBI.  And being an artist makes that unlikely, so what record are you trying to protect?  Jobs don't care as long as she finishes the college degree.  Now a university might, but generally community colleges don't, and universities don't care if you have an associate's degree OR have taken a year's worth of classes to prove you are capable of the work and aren't just a cut up trying to avoid responsibility.

 

The thing about graphic design is that it won't give her the freedom she's craving, she'll still be working for clients, to their standards, compromising her vision to meet their needs.  And she'll need to have a decent understanding of history, literature, pop culture, and maybe even psychology to understand the symbols she'll be working with. My thought is that if she's that frustrated with her other work being work that she's not passionate about, she's going to be similarly frustrated with graphic design. She probably will be happiest as an artist.  Luckily, with the internet it's much easier to make a good living as an artist now, but she must have a good understanding of not only art, business, and probably a decent understanding of web design.  Of course with Wordpress it's fairly easy to build a decent website now, but taking a class in wordpress (even just a weekend continuing ed class) might be on my list of requirements for her too. Along with the agreement that she will follow any additional requirements you come up with for her if you learn she might need something else in the future.

 

Um if you're thinking of offering this path to her, you should know she doesn't have to slog through a whole textbook to pass a CLEP exam. I would get her a CLEP prep book, which will have sample exam questions, and a membership to one of those sites like SpeedyPrep (I think there are several of them), so she can study for them quickly.  Some here may scoff at that, but if you're going for the degree and not the education, it is a decent option.

 

I would also make sure she's eating at least 100 grams of carbs and at least a tablespoon of healthy fats every day and also getting enough exercise and sunshine.  Something simple like walking a dog twice a day and having a buttered baked potato at dinner can do wonders for bad moods.

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Yes! (Manga, anime, video game graphics, all that stuff) I was a little hesitant to say, because I think that people generally think that she'll outgrow this interest (maybe, but maybe not) or that it's not the kind of thing you can make a living at. I know that few people do, but I honestly think she has a shot. I wish we could get our daughters together!!! But we're in New Mexico. :(

 

 

I hear ya!

 

Ahhh, now video game artists can make a fair bit of money. Not sure she should want to give that up if it interests her.

 

http://www.gameindustrycareerguide.com/video-game-artist-salary/

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I actually do not have a kid exactly like this.  My kids do have passions that they follow, but they aren't self motivated and super directed about them yet.  They're a little younger too. 

 

BUT, I was going to say, for kids interested in graphic arts, there is a free online 3D modeling drawing/animator tool called Blender.  There are 8 million free online resources for

 

Here is a short animated film made entirely in Blender ...

 

This is a free college level class as an introduction to blender ...

http://gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html

 

Here is the Blender website with the blender software download.

http://www.blender.org/

 

There are also many, many free tutorials on youtube.  Andrew Price's channel is my favorite.

 

I am actually teaching a group of late tweeners/teens a class on Blender right now and it's going awesome!  Just thought it's something I would suggest as a fantastic and free resource for interested kids.  The tool is NOT easy out of the box.  It has applied math skills and many of the concepts will apply to other tools (including engineering modeling which is my background, I was a software engineer in a past life with an art/engineering bent).  It does take some patience and motivation to get the basics under your belt.  My son actually self taught himself many of the basics and is getting around pretty well now.   You can just use it to create art and drawings too.  It is not just an animation tool.

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Yes! (Manga, anime, video game graphics, all that stuff) I was a little hesitant to say, because I think that people generally think that she'll outgrow this interest (maybe, but maybe not) or that it's not the kind of thing you can make a living at. I know that few people do, but I honestly think she has a shot. I wish we could get our daughters together!!! But we're in New Mexico. :(

 

 

I hear ya!

 

If your daughter is on fb she can add mine.  Message me if she's interested.  My daughter isn't too active on there but I'm trying to get her to find like-minded people online since she has no one in real life who share her interests.  She also has an Instragram that's open.  She's Caitie_cat13, she posts her art on there.

 

I also think she's probably not going to make a living at this, but I have to encourage her to follow her dreams.  I think it may change over time into advertising/marketing or just some type of graphic art.  Who knows?  It's my job to support and encourage and it's her job to direct her path in life.

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Here's a link to a forum discussing math needed in graphic design. The names of the software have changed somewhat since 2008, but the math skills haven't. http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/forum/graphic-design/general/35401-math-in-graphic-design

Thanks!

 

About half the kids that went to that early college program with me never bothered with a high school diploma. Who even asks about high school once you have a college degree? No one unless she joins the military or FBI. And being an artist makes that unlikely, so what record are you trying to protect? Jobs don't care as long as she finishes the college degree. Now a university might, but generally community colleges don't, and universities don't care if you have an associate's degree OR have taken a year's worth of classes to prove you are capable of the work and aren't just a cut up trying to avoid responsibility.

I guess my personal experience (the way I did it) is coloring my perception. I'll look at the requirements for some of the universities we've considered for admission of transfer students (I've only been looking at requirements for freshmen). If she can really get into a school she would want to attend without a diploma, then it's certainly an option.

 

The thing about graphic design is that it won't give her the freedom she's craving, she'll still be working for clients, to their standards, compromising her vision to meet their needs. And she'll need to have a decent understanding of history, literature, pop culture, and maybe even psychology to understand the symbols she'll be working with. My thought is that if she's that frustrated with her other work being work that she's not passionate about, she's going to be similarly frustrated with graphic design. She probably will be happiest as an artist. Luckily, with the internet it's much easier to make a good living as an artist now, but she must have a good understanding of not only art, business, and probably a decent understanding of web design. Of course with Wordpress it's fairly easy to build a decent website now, but taking a class in wordpress (even just a weekend continuing ed class) might be on my list of requirements for her too. Along with the agreement that she will follow any additional requirements you come up with for her if you learn she might need something else in the future.

Hmmm, thank you for this. I will give this some thought.

 

Um if you're thinking of offering this path to her, you should know she doesn't have to slog through a whole textbook to pass a CLEP exam. I would get her a CLEP prep book, which will have sample exam questions, and a membership to one of those sites like SpeedyPrep (I think there are several of them), so she can study for them quickly. Some here may scoff at that, but if you're going for the degree and not the education, it is a decent option.

Sounds good to me. :)

 

I would also make sure she's eating at least 100 grams of carbs and at least a tablespoon of healthy fats every day and also getting enough exercise and sunshine. Something simple like walking a dog twice a day and having a buttered baked potato at dinner can do wonders for bad moods.

Thanks, I definitely think that a bit more exercise and fresh air would do her a lot of good! She's getting plenty of carbs, though -- probably too many in my opinion but I try not to push my diet on her. :)

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Ahhh, now video game artists can make a fair bit of money. Not sure she should want to give that up if it interests her.

 

http://www.gameindustrycareerguide.com/video-game-artist-salary/

It interests her, a great deal! She wants to do the art side of it, though, not so much the programming side. Is graphic arts the right way to get her there? I know there are some colleges that offer degree programs specifically in video game design. Personally, I'd be a little hesitant in case it doesn't work out or she changes her mind. I don't know how useful that degree would be in other fields. But if I'm wrong, please feel free to enlighten me!

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I actually do not have a kid exactly like this. My kids do have passions that they follow, but they aren't self motivated and super directed about them yet. They're a little younger too.

 

BUT, I was going to say, for kids interested in graphic arts, there is a free online 3D modeling drawing/animator tool called Blender. There are 8 million free online resources for

 

Here is a short animated film made entirely in Blender ...

 

This is a free college level class as an introduction to blender ...

http://gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html

 

Here is the Blender website with the blender software download.

http://www.blender.org/

 

There are also many, many free tutorials on youtube. Andrew Price's channel is my favorite.

 

I am actually teaching a group of late tweeners/teens a class on Blender right now and it's going awesome! Just thought it's something I would suggest as a fantastic and free resource for interested kids. The tool is NOT easy out of the box. It has applied math skills and many of the concepts will apply to other tools (including engineering modeling which is my background, I was a software engineer in a past life with an art/engineering bent). It does take some patience and motivation to get the basics under your belt. My son actually self taught himself many of the basics and is getting around pretty well now. You can just use it to create art and drawings too. It is not just an animation tool.

 

Thank you so much for all of this!

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If your daughter is on fb she can add mine. Message me if she's interested. My daughter isn't too active on there but I'm trying to get her to find like-minded people online since she has no one in real life who share her interests. She also has an Instragram that's open. She's Caitie_cat13, she posts her art on there.

 

I also think she's probably not going to make a living at this, but I have to encourage her to follow her dreams. I think it may change over time into advertising/marketing or just some type of graphic art. Who knows? It's my job to support and encourage and it's her job to direct her path in life.

I'm afraid my daughter doesn't like social media, so she doesn't have a fb account or anything. Do you think your dd would have any interest in emailing mine? (I'll give you her email by PM if you think that would work.)

 

I know exactly what you mean about being unsure if her dream will work out, but wanting to support it at the same time. I want her to be realistic, but I also want her to do what she loves.

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My dd14 draws a lot of manga, uh, stuff, lol, and watches lots of anime. Her sister is less into anime but they are both big into fandoms of various kinds. 

 

Online, I know they are on tumblr and DeviantArt all the time. Oh, and Pottermore and other fan sites. 

 

Their only real-life opportunities to indulge these interests (for fun and companionship, not so much learning) is attending Mecha Con and Comic Con once a year. We are lucky to have it locally, but it's worth a few hours drive if you can afford to make a weekend of it. It's far from cheap, but they get to cosplay and attend panels and meet people even weirder than they are, they love it. The pro panels are really good for telling the cold, hard truth about working in comics, manga, anime, video game design, and anything within the entertainment/arts industries. It's nice to have it come from someone else. 

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Oh, and the pros are also great for saying how MUCH you need to know in order to be good at these jobs. Like one very well-known guy, I think the one who did Gargoyles, hit hard on the fact that you need to read widely, delve into art, just really immerse yourself in the greats. He said something like, everyone imitates to some extent. You need to have the knowledge to imitate Shakespeare directly, not imitate the guy who imitates Shakespeare. 

 

And the teens get to see that, yeah, most of these people whose jobs I would kill to have, they have an education beyond their specialty and they have extensive training and so forth. I'm sure some people dive in and make a success, but the big names definitely tend to have a deep knowledge of, and appreciation for, the classics of literature, art, etc. 

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Thanks katilac! Yeah, my daughter spends many, many hours on DeviantArt, and also watching YouTube videos of a freelance artist whom she really admires. She has attended a couple of small, local cons, and one big one in Dallas, but it was so big and crowded that we weren't able to actually do much (the lines to attend every event/panel were ridiculous!).

 

That is a really interesting point about being well-read and having a broad knowledge base for art inspiration. I will definitely pass that along to her.

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I didn't realise that her interests were verging into animation.  Dundee has a thriving animation industry (the dreaded GTA is out of Dundee) and would be a lot cheaper than London.....  It's not the most attractive city, but I could be her emergency contact if she ended up there.....  This is their entry requirements page.  

 

The article I linked above also mentioned Bournemouth, which might be more to your taste as a location.  Here's their US page.

 

 

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This could be us with my younger daughter (now 12 in 6th grade) in a couple of years.  Right now she's learning well from a few online drawing partners and a teacher at a local gallery who's taken her under her wing, but I can see having to slog through a general high school curricula might get her down.

 

 

GL, we're in the US and our eldest is at university in the UK.  PM me if you're interested in the application process story.  The short version is: I actually think it's easier for US students than UK (US students pay more; so the universities have an incentive to take them!  :laugh: )

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GL, we're in the US and our eldest is at university in the UK.  PM me if you're interested in the application process story.  The short version is: I actually think it's easier for US students than UK (US students pay more; so the universities have an incentive to take them!  :laugh: )

 

Yes - there's an incentive there...  I've heard some stories off the record....

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