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I have a nonverbal child who is using ASL to communicate. Many words in ASL are fingerspelled. How do young children learn to sign, read, spell and do phonics if they use ASL? 

 

How do I get my nonverbal child to sound words out if they are nonverbal once he becomes of age to read? How would I check comprehension orally?

 

My non verbal is 2.5yrs and has been diagnosed with Autism spectrum disorder and several speech therapist say he has severe apraxia but say he is 1) too young to be diagnosed 2) doesn;t make enough sounds to be diagnosed. He gets ABA and hours of SPEECh therapy. We made no movement in speech therapy for a long time. So I immersed him in sign language with deaf mentors and ASL all over the house. I talk and sign at the same time. 

 

My 5.5yrs old son has pdd-nos with articulation issues. 

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I have a 13 yr old who is a nonvocal communicator. He communicates with a speech generating device and some sign. His communication is not, however, anywhere near that of a child his age. Years behind in fact. I asked these same questions several years ago on another homeschooling forum I frequent. Although there was no one with specific experience, I was encouraged to look into materials geared toward children who are deaf. We have not reached the educational stage where this would be necessary for him (we are still working on ABC recognition) but I think it is an excellent idea. 

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Summary is here: http://gradworks.umi...62/3562020.html


Full text is here: http://academiccommo...issertation.pdf.


 

 

Crimson had this somewhere. I am going to read these carefully. Let's put our heads together and see what we can develop. 

 

Is your son getting ABA therapy or speech therapy? Is he in regular school or are you homeschooling him? 

 

I am planning to homeschool my son because it will be a fight to get any kind of instruction done in ASL or even get an interpreter since he is not officially deaf. Just non vocal. 

 

How many signs does your son have at this point? 

 

My son is not fingerspelling but he can sign spontaneously without prompting: eat, more, video/movie, book, car, cat, dog, potty, hurt, outside, bulldozer, mom, dad, grape, cookie, night night, oh no, yummy, yes, no, happy, crying, up, down, ball, book, monkey,  water (finger to mouth), mouse, diaper, change ..maybe more that I cant think of right off the bat. 

 

Our ABA program is teaching him sign. Plus his speech therapists uses sign as well. I make sure signing is in his IEP. 

 

Should my son never speak or be intelligible then at least he would have a community of deaf/hoh people to communicate with. That is my reason for pushing ASL as much as possible for him. My main concern is not that he voices but that he has some kind of language/communication skills which can affect reading later on. 

 

I am not pushing voicing because when we do he gets mad, upset, screams, cries and throws things at people or hits himself or bites himself. He is making more sounds now though and occasionally I might hear "more" when prompted. 

 

Is your speech communicating device in pictures? I would assume so since he is not reading correct? My son is not able to match 2d pictures with 3 d objects yet. so pecs is out of the question right now or any voice generating machine for that matter. 

 

 

I wonder if combining montessori materials with asl possible cued speech might help with the reading?

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I have a nonverbal child who is using ASL to communicate. Many words in ASL are fingerspelled. How do young children learn to sign, read, spell and do phonics if they use ASL?

 

I've been reading up on teaching reading to the deaf/hard-of-hearing in recent weeks, and there's a lot of good information on the Gallaudet website: http://vl2.gallaudet.edu/research/research-briefs/

 

There's a program called Visual Phonics but the manufacturer doesn't make it easy to purchase the materials (you have to attend a workshop with a certified trainer and unfortunately it doesn't seem like there are a lot of those): http://seethesound.org/

 

A hearing child who is non-verbal because of LD's (like autism) is presumably going to have somewhat different challenges learning to read than a D/HoH child who only has the physical disability. But there are definitely overlaps between the two groups, especially when ASL is being used to circumvent difficulties with spoken English.

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How are deaf people taught to read?
My first experience in reading was being read to. To me it's not obvious how this is done for those who can't hear. Eventually I learned to read phonetically. Where the A in apple made an AAA sound, followed by P making a PUH sound, and eventually letters to make up a word. Also how do you teach adjectives, or intangible words such
This is actually a quite complex question, not because reading is so hard for deaf children, but because educational methodologies for the d/Deaf vary widely. Some deaf children are taught ASL. Others are taught orally. A smattering of deaf children are taught a smashup of the two. 

Since it's also important to understand how deaf people read, I'll also delve into the cognitive mechanics of language processing in deaf children and adults. First, here's my story.

My Story.

As I've mentioned several times on Quora, I was born profoundly deaf. That means no hearing: nada, zilch, zippo. I'm probably one of the few people who knows what absolute silence sounds like. 

Some more context is necessary here. I started learning sign language when I was six months old. Specifically, I learned Signed Exact English (SEE) which incorporates the same grammar and syntax as English with a heavy emphasis on fingerspelling.  I'd sign a sentence like this (parentheses denote the signs): "(I) (see) (the) (baby) (cry)(ing)." Fingerspelling is forming individual letters with hand shapes.[1]  So, even before I learned how to read, I understood the concept of letters. In a way, I think that was an advantage when I started reading.

My mom read to me, just like many other children. She would sign with the book propped upon her lap and she'd give me some time to look at the book first and then start signing. I could shift my attention between her and the book. Actually, my mom told me that she had a great time and so did I. 

Also, my parents always had the TV closed captions turned on. (Closed captions are the textual display of spoken dialogue.) So, from a very young age, I knew there were things like letters, sentences and words. 

Even to this day, it's not clear how I learned to read. My mom told me that one day she found  me at three, watching the Smurfs. When she asked me, "Do you understand what's going on?" I said, "Yes, I do," then I told her, more or less, what the Smurfs were saying. I'd also take the books that my parents kept around for my older sister and read them. 

I think that, through fingerspelling, my mother signing stories to me, and the closed captions, somehow I realized that the printed word meant the same thing as signs and fingerspelled words. 

To this day, I don't read phonetically despite the fact that I have a cochlear implant (CI) and can "hear." I look at the beginning and end of the word and can generally predict what the word will be. This reading style has affected how I parse text and write. For example, I can skip around paragraphs, looking for a word fairly quickly. I also never make homonym errors that a lot of hearing people make. (I never mix up you're and your.). But unusual word spellings stumps me occasionally (e.g. anecdote). 

Studies of How the Deaf Read. 

I perused a few scholarly articles about how the deaf read. A few observations that intrigued me are:

  • ASL users sometimes confuse written words with similar signs - one interesting factoid that I found was that deaf children would sometimes confuse the written word's meaning if the signs were similar (e.g. vote and tea).[2] It's very similar to how hearing children (and adults) confuse its andit's.
  • ASL fluency as a predictor of reading level: several studies have shown that the deaf students who were the most proficient in ASL, not the ones who received the most oral training, were the better readers.[2]
  • Reading levels of Deaf children of Deaf parents - many Deaf children of Deaf parents (DoDs) tend to be better readers than deaf children of hearing parents.[3]

These observation suggest that deaf children, instead of learning phonetically, can "map" words with ASL signs. Deaf children with good signing skills (not all of them have that) can match up the word, "where" with the sign "where." With such children, the best teaching approach would be similar to mine: signing as one reads. 

Of course, not all deaf children know how to sign. Some of them are orally trained (taught only speech, without ASL). Depending on their hearing level, they could learn to read phonetically or through lip-reading. This method's success may be highly dependent on the child's hearing level and language proficiency. Moreover, there has been a new approach of teaching deaf children (it's  unclear if they're orally or sign-trained) visual phonetics.[4]

On a personal note, these studies track with my experiences. As I read, I can easily translate words into images and ideas, suggesting that I'm not wedded to phonetics. Sometimes when i'm having difficulty deciding what word to choose, I'll sign to myself. In short, I see words in a more conceptual way, just like ASL is a highly conceptual language. 

The Reality of Deafness and Reading.

All the above being said, some deaf people struggle to read at grade level. I suspect it's not because of their deafness per se, but the inadequacy of their educational environment. 

The key advantage that DoDs have is that they are in an environment with immediate access to a visual language. Deaf parents will sign to their children from birth. The child will learn ASL as naturally as a hearing child learns the spoken language. These parents can easily sign as they teach the child to read. 

For deaf children of hearing parents, however, the process is more difficult. If there is no early intervention--and sometimes there isn't--the deaf child is left marooned without language. If a child doesn't get access to a language during these critical developmental years, the damage is irreparable. A friend of mine wasn't even diagnosed with a severe hearing loss until she was two and half. She always struggled with learning, reading and other issues because of that delay. Sometimes, for some children with severe hearing loss (without a CI), oral training is kind of a waste of time and may result in language delays that affect one's reading proficiency. 

In short, how a deaf child learns how to read depends on their first language (ASL, SEE or spoken English). 

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist, linguist or an educational professional. In fact, if any of these weigh in, you may want to listen to them as well. These experiences and opinions are mine and mine alone. 
________


[2]: Lyuba Azbel, "How do the deaf read?"  http://psych.nyu.edu/pelli/docs/...
[3]: Goldin-Meadow & Mayberry, "How Do Profoundly Deaf Children Learn to Read?" Learning Disabilities Research & Pracice (16)4 222-29 full text here:http://idiom.ucsd.edu/~rmayberry...
[4]: Teaching method helps deaf children learn to read
  
 
 
 
It's the same with Deaf children who use American Sign Language (ASL). We are read to in ASL, and we learn to connect letters & words with ASL. Unlike hearing people, Deaf people learn best visually. That means we learn letters and words by visual memory and associating it with its corresponding ASL sign and/or image. Adjectives/intangible words are also taught the same way, albeit without using a corresponding image. It's picked up by context.

I attended schools for the deaf in Maryland & DC, and learned ASL  as a toddler. The teachers in my schools all were fluent in ASL and they  used ASL to teach me and other Deaf students written English and  reading English.  It wasn't labeled as such back then, but their  approach was very similar to "teaching English as a second language"  and/or "bilingual method."

Historically, hearing educators have stubbornly tried using phonetics/sounds to teach Deaf children to read/write, with uneven results, which is why bilingualism is so important in educating Deaf children. ASL is the key to full visual communication and educational access for Deaf children.

My children are  also learning to read and write under similar methodologies and it  really does work. They attend a bilingual-bicultural school for the deaf and have used ASL their entire lives, like me. They are now 7 and 5, and by the way, they don't wear hearing aids or cochlear implants, either.

If you want to check out a bilingual-bicultural school for the deaf, check out schools such as California School for the Deaf, Fremont; Indiana School for the Deaf; Maryland School for the Deaf, Frederick; Texas School for the Deaf...to name a few.
  
 
 
 
I learned to speak American Sign Language (ASL)  as a toddler. The teachers in my schools all were fluent in ASL and they  used ASL to teach me and other Deaf students written English and  reading English.  It wasn't labeled as such back then, but their  approach was very similar to "teaching English as a second language"  and/or "bilingual method." My teachers didn't use phonetics with me and other Deaf students, and we learned by visual memory and associating the letters with ASL alphabet and/or signs, as well as pictures/images. When I read, I look at the words and in my mind, it calls up either an image or a meaning and then I put it all together to create the big picture (or the whole picture).
 
Deaf children like myself and my Deaf children are read to in ASL, and we learn to connect letters & words with ASL. Unlike hearing people, Deaf people learn best visually. That means we learn letters and words by visual memory and associating it with its corresponding ASL sign and/or image. Adjectives/intangible words are also taught the same way, albeit without using a corresponding image. It's picked up by context.

Historically, hearing educators have stubbornly tried using phonetics/sounds to teach Deaf children to read/write, with uneven results, which is why bilingualism is so important in educating Deaf children. ASL is the key to full visual communication and educational access for Deaf children.

My children are  also learning to read and write under similar methodologies and it  really does work. As long as teachers teach *visually,* Deaf students will do well. I have to say that in watching my Deaf children learning to read (they're 8 and 6 now), my oldest did need to sign the words to understand what he was reading while trying to learn how to read.  But now that he's more comfortable with reading, he doesn't need to sign the words (the ones he already knows) anymore. And it's the same for me...as a fluent reader, I don't sign the words while reading. It's just quick flash of image or meaning for me now as I read.
  
 

 

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Summary is here: http://gradworks.umi...62/3562020.html

Full text is here: http://academiccommo...issertation.pdf.

 
 
Crimson had this somewhere. I am going to read these carefully. Let's put our heads together and see what we can develop.  << Love this idea!!! Checking out the links as well.
 
Is your son getting ABA therapy or speech therapy? Is he in regular school or are you homeschooling him? 
 
He has been in speech therapy for 12 years (started at 12 months). We just added in ABA a little over a year ago and it has been an amazing addition to his program. He also has OT weekly. He spent 7 years in public school in 2 wonderful schools (PreK/K and elementary) we brought him home two years ago this month with the district's blessing. The next class he would have been placed in was inappropriate for him. We always knew  one day he would need more than the district could offer.  We have a wonderful relationship with our district (my dh teaches spec ed here). They were (and are) thrilled with what we are doing with him. It is very out of the box. His ABA work and therapy make up the bulk of his schooling. We work on ABCs, 123s, simple acedemics etc but we are focusing more on training as much independence and daily living skills at this point. 
 
I am planning to homeschool my son because it will be a fight to get any kind of instruction done in ASL or even get an interpreter since he is not officially deaf. Just non vocal. 
 
How many signs does your son have at this point? 
 
He has about 15 - 20 sign approximations. Due to fine motor issues, motor planning delays and processing delays, sign is not easy for him at all. We started hand over hand teaching him at about 18 months old. He was 6 before he was able to form his first sign (drink - which for him is a fist tapping his mouth) He loves sign and really wants to learn. We teach them as they come up in our day. His device is his main means of communication so we tend to concentrate on that. 
 
My son is not fingerspelling but he can sign spontaneously without prompting: eat, more, video/movie, book, car, cat, dog, potty, hurt, outside, bulldozer, mom, dad, grape, cookie, night night, oh no, yummy, yes, no, happy, crying, up, down, ball, book, monkey,  water (finger to mouth), mouse, diaper, change ..maybe more that I cant think of right off the bat. 
 
Sounds like he is doing great! He can tell you a lot. 
 
Our ABA program is teaching him sign. Plus his speech therapists uses sign as well. I make sure signing is in his IEP.
 
We were blessed to have an aid fluent in sign in his first school. For his second school the district purchased the entire signingtime series for his teachers and aids to learn. 
 
Should my son never speak or be intelligible then at least he would have a community of deaf/hoh people to communicate with. That is my reason for pushing ASL as much as possible for him. My main concern is not that he voices but that he has some kind of language/communication skills which can affect reading later on. 
 
I am not pushing voicing because when we do he gets mad, upset, screams, cries and throws things at people or hits himself or bites himself. He is making more sounds now though and occasionally I might hear "more" when prompted. 
 
Ds has several word approximations which he just began using in the last year or so. Interestingly, they are all names, no objects. There are about 6 or 7 he uses. With the exception of 'mamama' and 'dadada' only the people closest to him know who is talking about. 
 
Is your speech communicating device in pictures? I would assume so since he is not reading correct? My son is not able to match 2d pictures with 3 d objects yet. so pecs is out of the question right now or any voice generating machine for that matter. 
 
Yes - it is picture based. He is using a DynaVox device. Currently the V+. He started with the DV4. We have about 2 years until insurance will pay for another one. We'll be getting him the T10 which is built on a tablet. His current device is a bit heavy for him to carry although he does. The T10 he can wear without issue. 
 
Let me encourage you not to discount the use of PECS or a device. When his slp first brought up the idea years ago everyone in the clinic thought she (and we) were crazy. It took a year for ds to learn to distinguish between only two choices (cup and toy) He then moved up to identifying animals, foods, colors etc.  Today - he is the child they bring up at every meeting when someone says there are children that shouldn't have devices. He is exceeding all expectations. He is beginning to express his feelings, use two and three word requests, tell people his name and ask them their name. Everyone is blown away with what he does on his device. He knows it is his voice and he owns it.   We also use PECS but they are for picture scheduling. Ds will use them for communication if he thinks we don't get what he wants with his device.  He loves water. There are at least 5 areas on his device that have water on them in some form. He will run through every one (and all his signs - water, bath, wash). If he doesn't get to play in water (by our choice at that moment) we will have a water PEC in our face within seconds :) We LOVE it. This kid has fought to find his 'voice' and it is a joy to watch unfold.
 
Yup - I'm a bit passionate about the subject    :thumbup: 
 
His first PECS were virtual pictures of his actual toys / items. We also put them on his device. Today he uses boardmaker PECS and the Dynasyms on his device. 
 
I have seen videos of reading instruction using devices. The children are working on sight words and use their device to 'say' the word. We are not in that arena yet. 
 
 
I wonder if combining montessori materials with asl possible cued speech might help with the reading?
 
We use montessori items with him in day to day learning. My only experience with cued speech is a cousin who is deaf. She learned asl and cued speech many. many years ago. 
 
Well - that ended up being a bit of a novel. I'd love to see where this process goes. It has been a question lurking in my mind for years. Ds loves books. I would love nothing more than to know he can read them for himself (even if it is just to himself)

 

 

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  • ASL fluency as a predictor of reading level: several studies have shown that the deaf students who were the most proficient in ASL, not the ones who received the most oral training, were the better readers.[2]

 

From what I've read, it's a bit more nuanced than this. The individual's proficiency in his/her primary language predicts reading ability. For a child deaf from birth whose primary language is ASL, that would be proficiency in ASL. For someone like my daughter with acquired hearing loss whose primary language is spoken English, it would be proficiency in that language. There are a bunch of studies on Cued Speech (something I will be learning) showing that CS helps with reading proficiency in D/HoH kids. I don't personally think there is one "correct" answer to the controversy over ASL vs. spoken English for D/HoH kids because each kid is going to have his/her own unique set of circumstances. I do think that strengthening the child's proficiency in whichever primary language seems most appropriate for him/her is crucial.

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What I have done is hired a deaf man to come and teach our whole family sign language so he is completely immersed in sign language. Husband and I sign to each other especially in noise areas or in movies or church. I sign to the kids as much as possible. My older kids balk and balk. But I keep doing it. 

 

I was thinking that immersing him in it, he will pick it up like a deaf child and he has. Our deaf tutor is amazed just how far he has come. In the beginning he made no signs/gestures/no pointing and never paid anyone attention. Just bumbled around, not looking at people, or what we were looking at. Not showing any attention to what we are doing. Now he sees my son and I actually having a conversation in sign about whatever. 

 

I basically sign as I talk, YOu know how with hearing kids we are are to talk constantly to them when they are babies and for example when we are out shopping.. "Lets see we need some eggs and flour to make so and so a cake. I wonder where the cake mix is etc?" Well I do the same while signing and talking outloud. I wish I can do more but I get stuck with vocabulary so then I just fingerspell it. 

 

Our deaf tutor is teaching us how to make facial expressions and exaggerating them. This is really helping my son because he needs to read facial expressions and learn how to focus on faces. Of course he would rather look at objects spin but in order to connect with us he has to look at our faces. This has been good for him. He can read me much better now. 

 

 

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Following.  We also have a nonverbal child with autism.  His ABA therapists have been working with him on using his device and he's great at scanning through it to make requests.  We also discovered very recently that all our work on his letters has sunk in and he's able to label them all correctly.  I just wish I had a systematic program for teaching that I could use.  I feel like I'm kind of flailing around.

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My son was accepted into CEID in berkeley but turned it down because they said they would not support us in learning ASL just SEE. It was a strange visit. Our deaf tutor and the director really got into it. 

Anyways, I think more people speak ASL than SEE anyways so I figured again if he never speaks vocally then he can at least sign with deaf/hoh people. Those will be his friends. At least he will have someone to speak to. 

 

I met some other parents who had kids with apraxia recently and the school district keeps throwing them Ipads and unfortunately the 6yrs old kid hates it and threw it and broke it. He says he wants to talk to a person not a machine. The school kicked him out. They would not provide him with an interpreter. Sigh 

 

My son has been diagnosed with autism and some speech therapists now think severe apraxia as well. 

 

I was thinking PEcs and a voice generating machine but then the ABA therapists said those often get lost or broken as the years go on especially when they move into group homes in adulthood and kind of a pain to carry around. I just can;t see my kiddo right now carrying around any kind of machine. The last machine he carried my cell phone he tried tossing in the toilet and I have no idea what he did to my Kindle.Yikes.

 

With these expensive voice generating machines, what happens if they get stolen, lost or broken? Who replaces? How much do they cost? 

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I've been reading up on teaching reading to the deaf/hard-of-hearing in recent weeks, and there's a lot of good information on the Gallaudet website: http://vl2.gallaudet.edu/research/research-briefs/

 

There's a program called Visual Phonics but the manufacturer doesn't make it easy to purchase the materials (you have to attend a workshop with a certified trainer and unfortunately it doesn't seem like there are a lot of those): http://seethesound.org/

 

 

 

A google search for Visual Phonics brings up some really good videos. Very interested to learn more of this. 

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I am going to do everything in my power to get my hands on Visual Phonics. Since I have deaf connections and one of my deaf mentors went to Gallaudet I might just be able to get my hands on it.

 

I will try and open doors for the rest of us. 

 

With your autistic or apraxia or speech delayed children, run to the nearest deaf center and learn ASL. I regret not doing this with my 5yrs. Five years of temper tantrums and aggression could have been thwarted had I started with signs with him in the first place. I finally see him trying to communicate with the younger one now that both of them have some signs in place and they do ABA on each other. Five years of intensive speech and people still don't understand him because of his articulations issues. Hearing kids think he is wierd or talks like a baby but we go to Club Saturdays at Deaf Community Center in San Leandro and he says he has friends now. "They talk like me" he says and he is happy. So am I. (His friends are deaf so the articulation is not clear just like him). 

 

By the way sign approximations are normal for young kids. One finger to the mouth for water instead of the three fingers. Common among regular deaf kids. Just make sure the signs are consistent. Slowly have ABA shape it to the right way. 

 

Tyler at STE Consultants in Berkeley is our clinical director and he is really up on this sign language stuff. He has been amazed at how fast my son is progressing compared to other kids not using sign as much. 

 

So my son signs "Want mommy. Want grapes" So I need to get off and get that for him.  

 

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With these expensive voice generating machines, what happens if they get stolen, lost or broken? Who replaces? How much do they cost? 

 

In 8 years we have never even come close to losing it and we take it everywhere. I will admit, sending it to school was a bit nerve wracking at first but we adapted. In all his years he had it at school it was never damaged or lost by them. As a matter of fact - the district chose to pay the warranty on it every year so they didn't have to buy a second one for him to use at school. Now that he's home we renew the warranty on it every year so any damage is covered. Dedicated speech generating devices are VERY expensive. Ds' is in the $7000 range. Insurance covers it. These days there are many, many options for apps on Ipads and other tablets. A much less expensive route to go.

 

I did contact our insurance when we got the first one to see if we could purchase a rider for ds' equipment (he has other expensive DME). We were told it would be covered under our homeowners (or car insur if damaged/destroyed in an accident). 

 

No doubt there will be issues to contend with as he ages but we'll cross those bridges when we come to them.

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Yes almost two and half. He has never babbled. like bababa. mamama. 

I never heard him say mama, dada. 

 

He doesn;t "sing", hum or anything like that. Just straight silence. Watching him is like watching a black and white movie with no sound except for the objects that make noise. 

 

Recently in terms of the last two weeks, he is making more sound effects with cars crashing. That has been a first. \\

 

Trying to get him to make animal sounds. Moving slowly in that department. Even got two dogs so he can make the sounds ruff ruff. Not yet.

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How does the public respond to your child carrying a voice generating machine? Has it been positive? Does he use it to talk to storekeepers, cashiers, Target, Walmart etc.....How about the kids in his class? How were they with it? 

 

This can always be another communication option for him.

 

Right now ASL is good because there are a lot of people who do speak it because it is considered a foreign language and we have seen a lot of deaf people in our community ie cashiers at grocery stores, on BART, at In and Out etc. 

 

Right now it may very well be possible my little one will talk but intelligibility will be questionable and his intelligence won't match his speech level. According to people with kids with apraxia it takes about 15 yrs of speech therapy at least and even then questionable intelligibility. On youtube some kids sounded like alien speech. I could understand the deaf people I am working with better than some of those kids.  

 

Regardless I am not waiting around for the speech to come around in case it nevers and I am caught with my pants down broken hearted and lost. 

 

I will find all ways to communicate with him at this point. Anything that stops the headbanging and the hand biting which has decreased immensely since he started signing. He does like Talking Tom and signs video to watch the videos and signs cat for Talking Tom. I am not sure if he has ever seen a cat before and made the connection for the sign and the real animal yet. But he signs Monkey to watch Curious George. Phew that took a long time for us to figure out because I never taught him monkey directly. He must have picked that up between all the lessons and signing amongst the family. My daughter was able to figure that one out.

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Following.  We also have a nonverbal child with autism.  His ABA therapists have been working with him on using his device and he's great at scanning through it to make requests.  We also discovered very recently that all our work on his letters has sunk in and he's able to label them all correctly.  I just wish I had a systematic program for teaching that I could use.  I feel like I'm kind of flailing around.

 

Michelle - which device is your son using?

 

Great news on knowing his letters!! I love when ds does something we didn't realize he could do. 

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Well I guess I will start moving his hands and fingers to make the alphabet and see where that takes us. I will add in numbers. 

 

Alphabet and numbers morning and night. Upon waking and before bed. I think I will take some books and start to sign them and fingerspell ones I do not know. He doesn;t look at books much but we can try. Or I can try and tell a sign story to him with exaggerated facial expressions and gestures. 

 

Our deaf tutor must think hearing people are so lame. We were playing charades with animals and he was so good at gesturing all the animals. The rest of us just got on all fours and crawled around. He showed how long the tusks were and how think and what part of the face it came out of. How thick the legs were how big the eyes and how the hair stood out etc. Eventually he told us to stop because we truly were bad at it. He started gesturing and we had to guess what animal and then he started teaching us to gesture with modeling. We just copied him exactly. There are some amazing deaf games and we are pretty lame at learning them. 

 

Right now during ABA, he doesnt get an object until he signs it. Once he signs it either hand over hand or prompting, he gets it. Over and over we go through the signs. SO instead of crying for me now, he signs Mommy. Yeah. He "said" mommy. 

 

We also teach our rescue dogs sign now so my son can give them commands. He signs and they do and he gives them treats. He loves it. 

 

He points to the dog's penis and signs Potty. He thinks it is hilarious. Now lets see if we can get him to use the potty when he signs it.

 

How old did your kids learn color and shapes? How old was it when your children were able to use PECs and Voice generating machine? 

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How did you train your son to use the machines? Did he put his fingers on the buttons himself? Did you guide him? How did you help him connect 3d objects to 2d pictures. I was thinking of making my own machine. You can get those books that make noises/sounds and take out the electronics and reprogram them with your own phrases or is that way too much work?

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Right now during ABA, he doesnt get an object until he signs it. Once he signs it either hand over hand or prompting, he gets it. Over and over we go through the signs. SO instead of crying for me now, he signs Mommy. Yeah. He "said" mommy. 

 

How old did your kids learn color and shapes? How old was it when your children were able to use PECs and Voice generating machine? 

 

This is the exact process we use but with his device. 

 

Perhaps I should note that ds has a rare chromosome syndrome diagnosis with a side order of autism. His dual diagnoses combined make his situation somewhat different. 

 

He began learning primary colors at about 5/6 I think. It was not a simple process by any means. Today he knows his primary colors and a few extras but it is still a work in progress. 

 

He got is first device right before his 6th birthday. We began working with it immediately but learning it it is an ongoing process. We are always adapting and adding new sections and folders of images as his needs dictate. For instance - he starting playing baseball with a special league last fall. We added a page with all he needed to say about baseball. He quickly learned to use it because it related to something he enjoyed. 

 

We can also hide buttons so if we're working on foods but only 15 of the 40 apply to him we'll hide the others and introduce them as needed. The same with clothing, school items, colors etc. Right now only numbers 1-5 are seen but the rest are there waiting for him to master 1-5 and then we'll expose more.

 

His main page now has 30 buttons that open new screens which may have buttons that open another screen and so on. He's come a long way from his original two static buttons. He actually shows us where things are on it at times :) He'll say things to us we didn't realize he knows. 

 

One of the reasons we aren't pushing sign to a great extent is that he is communicating a great deal with his device. If he can say it one way we don't need him to learn it another way. There are of course exceptions. We teach the sign for everyday. often used words (eat, drink, cold, bath, book, dog etc) He can say/request/identify all those things on his device but sometimes it's just easier to get his point across with his hands. Ds is a whole language communicator. He uses sign, his device, PECs, gestures and actions (handing us an empty cup) to communicate. 

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How did you train your son to use the machines? Did he put his fingers on the buttons himself? Did you guide him? How did you help him connect 3d objects to 2d pictures. I was thinking of making my own machine. You can get those books that make noises/sounds and take out the electronics and reprogram them with your own phrases or is that way too much work?

 

By using it, everywhere and anywhere a child would use his voice. By modeling language on it just as you model language for a speaking child (just as you are modeling with sign). The 3d to 2d connections comes with repetition, practice and lots of it. Ds is still learning this concept. Using preferred items to start with. OT worked on isolating his pointer and we did at home. We did a lot of hand over hand training (still do sometimes with new concepts). It is an ongoing process. I attend trainings and follow other families online that are using SG devices. I know the device. I can program it better than his slp because I have learned it and spent dedicated hours using it myself. It must be available, charged and on at all times. We also give him time to explore. He will run through screen after screen sometimes. To a casual observer it looks like a waste of time but believe me, he is learning. The next time you ask a question he'll end up on a screen you've never seen before because he's learning his device. It is for this reason we have stayed with DynaVox devices and not moved to an app on an Ipad (which were not an option when we started). We loved the Prentek device and seriously thought of getting one for his second and then realized we'd be asking him to learn a whole new language. 

 

 

There are much simpilier forms of AAC. GoTalk has several with different numbers of slots for pictures. There are single buttons that you can record a saying on. When ds was just starting in school they used a single button that said 'drink' so that he had a way of asking for a cup.

 

Mayer-Johnson, Super Duper Publications and Different Roads to Learning are just a few companies that offer various forms of AAC - from simple to more complex. 

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Michelle - which device is your son using?

 

Great news on knowing his letters!! I love when ds does something we didn't realize he could do.

He has an iPod with the ProLoquo2go app. We also got him a Gab'n'Go harness for it from safensoundmobile. It keeps the iPod right where he needs it and we don't have to worry about him losing it. It's worked out very nicely. I recently ordered a second refurbished iPod so we can always have one on the charger and ready to go.

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He has an iPod with the ProLoquo2go app. We also got him a Gab'n'Go harness for it from safensoundmobile. It keeps the iPod right where he needs it and we don't have to worry about him losing it. It's worked out very nicely. I recently ordered a second refurbished iPod so we can always have one on the charger and ready to go.

 

I have heard great things about ProLoquo2go. There are days I wish those were around when we started. I can not wait til we can move ds to a device the size of an Ipad. He will love having his device on him at all times. He tries now but it is a bit heavy. It's wonderful when they are right there with them.

 

ETA - I LOVE that harness. It's going on my wish list for him when he get his new device. It's wonderful.

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happycc, I encourage you to look at a GoTalk device. They come in different sizes, from 4 pictures up to 20+, and they are very, very durable. You can find used ones on eBay cheaply. They are simple to program and create sheets for if you buy the software CD.

 

We sold my son's GoTalk20 when he became frustrated that it didn't have what he wanted to say. He moved on to an iPad with ProLoQuo2Go, which is a phenomenal app. We stashed the iPad in an Otterbox and never looked back.

 

I am not exaggerating when I say it was life changing for my son. He knew so much, and was far more intelligent than anyone knew, but he was stymied by the lack of desirable communication. His public school tried at first to insist on using paper PECS. No way. DS hated them and refused to use them except under significant duress. He wanted a voice.

 

He learned to connect symbols to real objects with food first, then toys. The ProLoQuo app and GoTalk both allow you to use a real photograph rather than an abstract symbol for tangible objects, so that helps make connections.

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We started him with an iPad and the app, but after a while his therapists asked us to consider the iPod for greater mobility. I was initially concerned about the screen size, but he's surprised us all with how well he's able to move through the screens to find what he wants.

 

His strengths have always been visual/perceptive. He has picked up new pictures on his device very quickly. It took a long time for him to grasp what he needed to do, but when it clicked, it really clicked. A huge amount of his therapy time is spent on him using his device and it's definitely paid off.

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I am not exaggerating when I say it was life changing for my son. He knew so much, and was far more intelligent than anyone knew, but he was stymied by the lack of desirable communication. His public school tried at first to insist on using paper PECS. No way. DS hated them and refused to use them except under significant duress. He wanted a voice.

 

 

 

:hurray:  Yes! a million times yes!

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I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your situation and story, but that's a fascinating idea to bring in a deaf tutor and go to great lengths to get him communicating.  One of the great ironies of apraxia is that there's usually a gap between their expressive and receptive language.  Not always, but often.  I think the program saying they wouldn't take you is also a statement that they couldn't facilitate you.  In a way, if you wanted the program otherwise and it was federally funded, I would have said ADA, make the IEP, require the person fluent in sign.  In fact, I've talked with someone (can't remember where?) who managed to require TWO fluent in sign, because language acquisition involves not only the direct language but language you overhear/see.  

 

Anyways, I think you're fabulous there.  If he has the ability to express via ASL, that's a method that people can facilitate anywhere he goes.  Awesome.  

 

You said apraxia, and from reading my posts you already know I'm going to say PROMPT.  Have you thought about moving to be near a PROMPT therapist?  In Cincinnati there is a deaf school that integrates apraxia, deaf, and hearing siblings into classes that mix speech and ASL.  Everyone gets their therapies and the mixed social experience.  I'm not sure they're able to handle autism on top of that.  I'm just saying there are places like that, that DO bring together apraxic and deaf children into a setting.  Ohio has an autism scholarship, so you'll get $20K a year for that once you get the IEP and apply.  And you can get PROMPT from an instructor, top of the line, someone who deals with it all day long and has lots of experience with severe cases.  And yes, I talked with someone who moved here from another state to use her.

 

Sounds like you're doing everything you know how to do!  Have you looked into Rapid Prompting?  It's different from PROMPT.  Rapid Prompting is a teaching method for non-verbal children.  Halo Soma is the name I think.  Look it up and see if it inspires you.  There are videos on her site and the book is quite good.  I talked with someone who used it successfully with her severely apraxic, non-verbal teen on the spectrum.  He was gifted btw.  You just never know what's inside.  

 

And yes, I agree with you that the ability to communicate affects behavior and their perception of themselves.  I would toss out to you that a highly experienced therapist (like ours in Cincinnati) has worked with children with autism enough that they know how to work it.  Funny things happen with PROMPT that you wouldn't expect.  If the dc is ready to express (has communicative intent), then in a weird way you're giving him what he wants.  Sometimes that inner desire to communicate (plus the savvy and experience of the therapist on how to get there) cause the kids to be willing to put up with some things, like hands on their faces, that they wouldn't otherwise.  So don't write it off.  But I agree that's torturous to put a dc into traditional flashcard and imitation-based speech therapy when they have a motor-planning disability that makes them UNABLE TO IMITATE.  Absolutely a dc could become frustrated or discouraged with that.  It's the hurdle bar that's always too high.  PROMPT eliminates that.  If you can get it, it's worth going for.  Since you have two kids, you might consider traveling (if you can't get it locally) and doing a 1-2 week intensive therapy.  So you'd have one hotel room expense and get double sessions of therapy for both kids every day for a week.  Just something to look into.  People who have to travel a long way do this and sometimes get surprising breakthroughs.  The therapist will teach you the techniques so you can carry them over at home.

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Happycc, you may want to do the Barton pretest and consider LIPS.  LIPS was golden, super awesome for my boy.  I think many kids with apraxia will have phonemic awareness issues.  Some still learn to read typically with just a little support and connection-making, and some get a dyslexia label.  If LOE didn't work out, then you probably ought to be considering Barton.  

 

Did your psych run a CTOPP?  They have it normed down to 4 now, so you can get an answer rather than wondering.

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OhElizabeth

thank you for your informative post. 

 

So here is our situation:

 

We have 8 kids and a grandchild and a blended family. I cannot up and leave the state due to legal court issues to live anywhere.

We were just gifted a house to help with our living situation but the house requires a lot of work before we can move it. We got it in November and now it is end of February We found mold and holely floors under bathroom tiles. 

 

So we are stuck here in the SF BAY AREA plus husband has been with his company 20yrs. If we move, we would never make enough to support our family. 

 

Anyways, I did got to Prompt institute website and emailed the person I needed to to get a therapist in my area. Hopefully someone close by. Waiting on reply.

 

One child gets 20hours of ABA and 3 hour of speech (two from hayward state and one from regional)and another gets 10hours of speech and one a hour of speech a week (independent study charter school district that requires me to drive to pleasanton)  

 

I also emailed visual phonics people and waiting for reply. Wait wait wait. 

 

In addition we get two hours a week of deaf mentorship with ASL acquisition plus we attend various deaf functions at DCARA in San Leandro, CA. Club Saturdays Sign and Dine etc.

 

I am doing everything to find a community for my son to belong in presently and in the future should he never vocalizes. I am not sure at this point how much ACC is accepted by workforce people and society yet. Our ABA people have said that there is some kind of discrimination with those using ACC than ASL at this point. ASL is becoming more mainstream with Switched At Birth show happening nowadays. Plus ACC is ackward for kids to carry around in school yard or for kids really in love with water like mine is. ABA is going to work on vocalization after this six months of solidifying ASL skills. I just needed peace and quiet for awhile with all the screaming and yelling he was doing. With ASL things have decreased significantly. So once we feel more solid with ASL perhaps ABA will work on voicing but still working on making eye contact, joint attention etc. These two are pivotal skills for any kind of learning.  

 

Our ABA clinical director is rather surprised by how my son has improved because of the immersion of signs. I chose ASL because I feel SEE is just plain wrong. I mean how would we feel if some people say learning English is too hard and want to modify our language so it makes it easier for them. I would find that offensive. Basically SEE was developed by hearing people to make it easier for them to communicate with deaf people who already had a language of their own-ASL. Hearing people should just buck up and learn ASL and stop offending deaf people. I feel kids learning ASL right away will help them learn to communicate just fine in English and in ASL. I have deaf mentors who grew up having to learn SEE first and they suffered socially and academically. Then they went to an All deaf school and learned ASL and did much better. 

 

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Perhaps this is my own bias showing, but I disagree very strongly that ASL is always preferable to AAC for a hearing child. AAC devices provide a voice, in a native language. Anyone who speaks the language can understand. How many people know ASL well enough to carry on a conversation or quickly assess an emergency medical need? If a kid is living primarily in a hearing community, then I think having a voice is important. Obviously, the reverse would be true if you were mostly around Deaf people.

 

The key, I think, is speed. People become impatient with stutterers for the same reason they become impatient with AAC users. Too much lag time, and the conversation is no longer fluent. As for awkward to carry around...who doesn't have a smartphone or iPod? Lots of apps and some devices are that small. There's far more options than a 5lb Dynavox around the neck now.  Kids today text and chat online as easily or moreso than they do face-to-face conversations. Tech devices are ubiquitous.

 

I don't mean to come across as some sort of fanatic, happycc. I applaud you for being willing to take the path less traveled to help your son, and I hope you stumble across that magic solution that opens up the greatest possibilities for him, whether that's ASL or AAC, or plain old learning to speak with ABA therapy!  :)

 

 

I am doing everything to find a community for my son to belong in presently and in the future should he never vocalizes. I am not sure at this point how much ACC is accepted by workforce people and society yet. Our ABA people have said that there is some kind of discrimination with those using ACC than ASL at this point. ASL is becoming more mainstream with Switched At Birth show happening nowadays. Plus ACC is ackward for kids to carry around in school yard or for kids really in love with water like mine is. ABA is going to work on vocalization after this six months of solidifying ASL skills. I just needed peace and quiet for awhile with all the screaming and yelling he was doing. With ASL things have decreased significantly. So once we feel more solid with ASL perhaps ABA will work on voicing but still working on making eye contact, joint attention etc. These two are pivotal skills for any kind of learning.  

 

 

 

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I don't have a dog in the fight over ASL vs. AAC for hearing-but-nonverbal children. I think both can be good options and it really depends on the individual child's personal circumstances which to choose. And certainly learning to use one now does not preclude learning to use the other later on. It's not like there is some irreversible decision being made :-)

 

I do, however, strongly believe that a LOT of speech development can happen after the age of 2 (and even after the age of 5 for that matter). A teen with ASD who is nonverbal probably is going to stay that way. But the OP's children are far too young IMHO to know what level of speech they might have as adults. By the time they are grown the question of ASL vs. AAC may be totally moot.

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I think I am more pro ASL right now because we are so near California School of the Deaf in Fremont and everywhere we turn we see deaf people driving, holding jobs in the community, skiing, traveling, having kids and family. I go to Safeway and we have deaf cashier. I think a principal in our school district is deaf. There is a deaf dentist and doctor in Fremont. I have heard that the school district in Pleasanton incorporates American Sign Language in the school starting elementary school because there are tons of deaf people in that city. We have employment offices in our area for the deaf. They hold office jobs, social work etc.

I see more people signing and working than I do see people carrying ACC devices.  I do see ACC devices at our speech and language clinic with adults with aphasia. I also know that some school districts somewhere up North like near Mendocino refuses to teach deaf kids sign language and provide interpreters and instead give them Ipads because it is cheaper. I do know that the deaf uses cell phones, Ipads extensively to communicate with each other and with hearing people. 

 

I have no idea what the future holds. Perhaps my son will suddenly speak in sentences in 6 months. I have no idea. But in general ASL has made our lives easier. 

 

I do believe in the strength of total communication. Perhaps in due time my son will know how to use an Ipad and when we can afford one and use it to speak with. At this point, it is not happening. So it is good old signs for now and where I live many people know ASL or at least some basic signs. Closing the gap on the isolation that deaf people feel.

 

I can;t tell you how grateful our deaf friends and mentors have been that we are making the effort to learn their language and that there will be more citizens in the world who can speak their language. 

 

My Regional Center worker was doubtful at first but then realized at best when my son is vocal he will be bilingual in both ASL and English. A plus plus situation. 

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I do, however, strongly believe that a LOT of speech development can happen after the age of 2 (and even after the age of 5 for that matter). A teen with ASD who is nonverbal probably is going to stay that way. But the OP's children are far too young IMHO to know what level of speech they might have as adults. By the time they are grown the question of ASL vs. AAC may be totally moot.

 

Our neurodevelopmental pediatrician has always emphasized that neural plasticity with regards to language development is there up to about 12 years old.  He was overjoyed when our son began using purposeful sounds this year (he's six next month).  Just that little step forward was enough for him to give us a good prognosis for functional language down the road.

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ACC is just an assistive device for communication.

Whereas ASL is a 'Language'.

Which is not only used for communication, but is also for cognitive thinking.

So that people 'think in sign'.

With the signs being 'felt in the mind', without making the physical movement.

 

Where it really needs to highlighted, that at his age he will be able to learn think in Sign.

ACC at this stage, could rather be in an impediment to this?

How could an ACC find images to represent the words: might, rather, could, such, perhaps ?

 

Though this is where learning to sign Letters is crucial.

So that it can be understood how words like the above mentioned are formed, can be understood.

 

With being able to sign letters, phonemic awareness can then be developed.

Where the difference between: la,le,li,lo,lu  can be clearly felt.

 

With fluent sign language, a word is concieved of as a fluid series of movements.

In the same way, that when you say the word; 'but'?

Your oro-facial muscles produce this as a fluid motor movement. Not: b-u-t, with distinct motor movements for each letter.

 

While you introduced this as 'using ASL to communicate'.

The other side of this, is using ASL as a language for cognitive thinking.

So that it is not only used to give reply?

But also to consider and form a reply.

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What does the crystal ball say about a child with BOTH autism and apraxia? Speech in 6 months?

 

Yes I learned that ASL stimulates the language portions of the brain according to MRI the Broca and Wernicke and that it makes reading easier later on rather than plain old gestures or other forms of communications. 

 

So lets get back to teaching them how to read......

 

Have not heard back from Visual Phonics

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What does the crystal ball say about a child with BOTH autism and apraxia? Speech in 6 months?

 

Yes I learned that ASL stimulates the language portions of the brain according to MRI the Broca and Wernicke and that it makes reading easier later on rather than plain old gestures or other forms of communications. 

 

So lets get back to teaching them how to read......

 

Have not heard back from Visual Phonics

I'm not meaning to be blunt, but fat chance.  Developmental delay, yes you get that shazam, 6 months.  Apraxia is motor planning, not a developmental delay.  Every. single. sound. my ds has he has because we have physically moved his mouth and done the prompts over and over (and over and over) to build automaticity.  It's not a developmental delay and waiting makes NO difference.

 

That's why it's SO important to know exactly what you're dealing with.  You can pin your hope on what worked out for someone else, but if what they were dealing with isn't what you're dealing with, it won't matter.  

 

And don't worry, I've cried a little over that one.  You'll meet people who were told apraxia (by someone is not an apraxia specialist) and then shazam.  But then you dig in and find out there are other delays going on, that it was a delay, not apraxia.  Merely not having speech is NOT apraxia.  Apraxia is characterized by specific motor planning problems.  You elicit the motor planning problems and demonstrate the praxis.  

 

So no, waiting changes nothing if it's apraxia.  I'm not meaning to be blunt, just honest.  And conversely, change and improvement is not dependent on time alone either with apraxia.  When you intervene EARLY and aggressively, you may see dramatic, surprising progress.  That's because it's a motor planning problem.  If the communicative intent is there and there is no delay, you may be surprised what could happen with extremely effective therapy.  Our PROMPT therapist (who is an instructor, top level) has had kids come in non-verbal at age 5, do a week of intensive, and get breakthroughs.  

 

Things like omega 3 and nutrition support that process btw.  It's not like it's one or the other.  But really, *if* it's apraxia, you want to move up the priority ladder effective speech therapy if at all possible.  We paused our ST to learn to read, because frankly he didn't seem to have energy to do both.  We're in it for the longhaul and that's just how it is (forward and backward).  

 

So whatever.  I love what you're doing with ASL.  I just think getting a therapy that is known to be effective with an SLP who has experience a track record is your best way of knowing what breakthroughs can be gotten.  And yes, people move to get PROMPT.  Not saying it's practical, just what people do.  Or they travel to do intensive.  If it's apraxia, it would be worth it.

 

You can google Deborah Hayden and PROMPT and watch her 45 minute workshop on PROMPT btw and see how/why it works.  

 

Just for your trivia, a major autism school Columbus just got ALL their SLPs trained on PROMPT, every single one.  It is THE most effective treatment for apraxia.  Just because an autism place doesn't have their therapists trained yet doesn't mean it doesn't matter or that they're effective.  Remember, they make money irrespective of whether your child makes progress.  To get trained in PROMPT requires multiple courses and a certification process ($$$).  PROMPT is under 15 years old.  So what you'll see is loci of training, where someone becomes an instructor and then does workshops in their state, resulting in pockets of training.  But the word IS getting out and people ARE getting trained.  

 

It's something I feel sort of passionate about, because it's so miraculous with my son.  Even in a single session you'll see before and after.

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ACC is just an assistive device for communication.
Whereas ASL is a 'Language'.
Which is not only used for communication, but is also for cognitive thinking.
So that people 'think in sign'.
With the signs being 'felt in the mind', without making the physical movement.
 
Where it really needs to highlighted, that at his age he will be able to learn think in Sign.
ACC at this stage, could rather be in an impediment to this?
How could an ACC find images to represent the words: might, rather, could, such, perhaps ?

 

 

Many (if not most) hearing parents of hearing-but-nonverbal children would prefer spoken English to be the child's primary language rather than ASL. AAC would be a tool to facilitate the development of spoken English as the primary language. The child may lack the motor control to express himself/herself verbally but that doesn't mean the child isn't receptively learning spoken English.

 

I would like my daughter to become fluent in ASL but as a second language rather than primary. The Deaf activists can rant about the politics of giving spoken English primacy over ASL and I do think they have a point when it comes to children who are deaf from birth. But it's a different situation with children whose hearing is within the typical range, and those with acquired hearing loss.

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SafenSound Mobile posted a link to this on their FB wall.  I need to look through all the materials, but this may be the systematic AAC program I've been looking for. https://aaclanguagelab.com/

 

 

That looks very interesting. I just sent off an e-mail asking them if the system will work well with devices other than PRC. I attended a PRC LAMP (Language Acquisition Through Motor Planning) training. It was very good but we were not able to transfer the ideas completely as my son's device is set up differently than the PRC devices. We did gain some helpful ideas though. 

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The deaf community is very powerful and strong. It is well connected and they take care of each other very well. They gave made amazing advancements in being able to living independently. I honestly would feel my son would be better cared for in the deaf community than in the hearing community. There are a lot of bias and prejudice among the hearing saying that vocalization is better and superior. What matters is communication....my 5yrs old is teased regularly by the hearing community for his speech articulation despite years of speech. I'm hoping my younger son's life will be easier in the deaf community.

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Sigh.  Me too.  But it would be so worth it to have a systematic literacy program all laid out for me.  I spent most of yesterday afternoon going through various reading programs and trying to see if I could translate them to his ProLoquo app.  It was very frustrating.

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My friend has a son who is nonverbal but understands everything. He isn't deaf but uses signs to communicate. He goes to school and gets lessons. He can sign to answer questions or type using a talker that predicts what he is typing. I have had him read and I can tell when he is reading by the sounds he is making and I ask him to tell me if he needed help with a word.

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