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A strange application question....


Joan in GE
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I know this will sound strange but it is a 'just in case' type of situation....

 

One of the requirements for people coming in with a foreign diploma over here, is that they can prove that they would be accepted with this diploma in any university in their country.  Of course, the second part "any university" cannot completely apply in the US as spots are competitive...

 

But if I needed to produce an acceptance letter in a fairly short turn around time, dd would need to apply to a 'university',

big enough to have lots of majors possible,

but not so difficult that she would have trouble getting in,

rolling admissions so we wouldn't have to wait for another year to apply

it could be anywhere in the US because she actually wouldn't go there, just prove that she could be admitted.

 

Could anyone propose such a university?

 

I should have asked this before she took the SAT the other day so we could have her scores sent there but we're a bit surprised by the other admission changes and are having to suddenly change the game plan...

 

....Even though she'll have probably 7 AP's and some SAT II's...she has no sports (apart from a once a week type thing for gym), no work on the side, no creative theater or anything (because there is no weight given to such activities on applications here), and hasn't started any NGO's :-)...

 

 

Thanks!

Joan

 

 

 

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Pretty much any non-flagship state university would be pretty happy to get a kid with that profile.

 

I was just trying to do a multi-quote response...to answer everyone at once...When you say a 'non-flagship' state university, I don't know what that means...well I have some idea of good state universities...but not sure how to tell what is non-flagship...

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You are in Germany right? There is no need to apply to a US school to show that she could gain admission. Germany is very familiar with US high school graduates. DAAD has a website that states the requirements.

 

https://www.daad.de/deutschland/nach-deutschland/voraussetzungen/en/6017-admission-requirements/?id=250&ebene=4

 

Ok, we're not in Germany but close enough...

 

First - that is very interesting! They make it really easy for Americans...knowing what to ask for SAT's etc...They don't even know what they are here in CH or at least don't request any info about them...When I showed her brothers just now, they got all excited!

 

The reason I was asking about an American university is that they say here that you need to prove that you could have entry in your country (ETA - maybe for us, not sure yet, just want to be ready if so)...So since she'll have a diploma, it would need to be accepted in the US, not in Germany.

 

But your link is very helpful! I had no idea it would be so easy if things don't work out here. At least it's not as far away as North America :-)

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Penn State

 

I had thought of Penn State since I'm from that state but I thought it would be hard to get into...Doesn't it have a good reputation?  I'd also like the least paperwork possible too if that exists in the US...when I read everything people have to submit it sounds overwhelming:-)

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Has your daughter been on the radar of any US schools, because of her US tests? If so, she may have received offers to apply for free with minimal application requirements.

 

If not, I would look for a list of schools with no application fees (I really think there is such a list.) On that list, I would look for a state school with rolling admissions that does not use the common ap. Then I would check that there were no crazy homeschool requirements.

 

Good luck.

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Waving madly and sending hugs, Joan!

 

Take, for instance, Massachusetts, my state. The "flagship" is University of Massachusetts in the town of Amherst (usually refered to as UMass Amherst). This is the hardest to get into, in theory, and is the one that is the one the state thinks of as being the main UMass. There is also a UMass Boston, a UMass Dartmouth (much smaller), and a UMass Lowell (known for technology). There are also "state colleges. One has recently been upgraded to a university. (My sister got her masters in teaching there.) Salem State University, in Salem, Mass. You could check that out.

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I was just trying to do a multi-quote response...to answer everyone at once...When you say a 'non-flagship' state university, I don't know what that means...well I have some idea of good state universities...but not sure how to tell what is non-flagship...

 

If you look at state schools, there are those which are nationally recognized as leaders, and those which are considered "regional" schools, which are leaders regionally, and then those which may have a few great areas but which are not producing the kind of research and high GRE test scores you would see at a "flagship".

 

Examples of flagships in my area: Oregon State University, University of Oregon, University of Washington, Washington State (<- Snobby UW and UO, in the 

 

Non-flagships (some of which have top programs, but which generally cater to undergraduates): Evergreen State College (this is a four year), Eastern WA U, Western WA U, Central WA U, Eastern O U, Oregon Institute of Technology, Portland State, OHSU (highly regarded but not the flagship).

 

Some of these can be more selective than the flagship depending on your major. But generally it's easier to get in statistically speaking. However the people who go are often not less qualified. Most people I knew applied to two regional colleges, one flagship, and one private (this was before the common app). Everyone who got in to the regional colleges got into the flagship as well, same aid, too. But we chose different colleges. Many of us (including our class valedictorian and salutatorian) chose regional colleges to avoid the fraternity/sorority/party atmosphere of the flagship schools.

 

What is your state of record in the United States? Like the last place you lived, or place of birth on the passport? We can tell you which universities are quality, state-recognized, but also which have many spots and would be unlikely to reject any moderately qualified applicant.

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Rutgers U in NJ has rolling admissions and an easy application process.  You even self report your grades in the application. No need to send in a transcript.  The New Brunswick campus is the main one with the most majors while the other campuses have less choices but not as competitive to get into.  She'll still be considered accepted at Rutgers no matter which campus she gets accepted into.

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Do you actually need to have an acceptance or do you need to show what is required for acceptance (ie pick a good university, show the list of college prep courses they require, and then pull last year's class profile to show what SAT scores are admitted). 

 

It seems like this requirement is designed for most other countries' admissions policies when tend to be based on an entrance exam score that is universally accepted at all national unis.  The US admissions system is so different and competition for spots not universally determined that it is hard to compare.

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Penn State

That's exactly what I was going to say. Twenty years ago, they only wanted stats for regular admission, no extracurriculars, and iirc, when I checked not long ago, it didn't appear to have changed. Their honors program is hard to get into, but the general school? I don't think it's too difficult. University Park campus is more selective, but they have so many branch campuses that I don't think it's too hard to get into one of them. They have like 40,000 undergrads; I'd think a student with good SATs and grades and classes would have no problem getting an acceptance.

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Old Dominion University in Virginia.  I *think* they have rolling admissions (which aren't that rigorous, so she'd probably be a shoe-in), and so you would get your acceptance letter promptly.  Online application process, so you can fill it out tonight, if need be.

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Has your daughter been on the radar of any US schools, because of her US tests? If so, she may have received offers to apply for free with minimal application requirements.

 

If not, I would look for a list of schools with no application fees (I really think there is such a list.) On that list, I would look for a state school with rolling admissions that does not use the common ap. Then I would check that there were no crazy homeschool requirements.

 

Good luck.

 

We'd been deleting them and unsubscribing since I had thought US schools were irrelevant for dd....now I'm sorry about that...Looking for no application fees is a good idea and didn't know before this thread that such situations existed! Thank you!

 

Multiquote is not working these days for me so I'll have to answer others separately...

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Waving madly and sending hugs, Joan!

 

Take, for instance, Massachusetts, my state.  The "flagship" is University of Massachusetts in the town of Amherst (usually refered to as UMass Amherst).  This is the hardest to get into, in theory, and is the one that is the one the state thinks of as being the main UMass.  There is also a UMass Boston, a UMass Dartmouth (much smaller), and a UMass Lowell (known for technology). There are also "state colleges".  These are significantly easier to get into, at least in theory, and easier to get through, in theory.  One has recently been upgraded to a university.  (My sister got her masters in teaching there.)  Salem State University, in Salem, Mass.  You could check that out.  The one tricky bit is that Massachusetts is sticky about homeschoolers who don't have official paperwork from someone.  You are probably better off looking for a different state's "branch" university.

 

Hugs and waving to you too, Nan!!

 

Thank you for the flagship info as well as the Seek and find states that are very homeschool friendly! It's a good idea...

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Loyola U in Chicago.  Rolling admissions and free online application.  

 

reefgazer

Posted Today, 06:32 AM

Old Dominion University in Virginia.  I *think* they have rolling admissions (which aren't that rigorous, so she'd probably be a shoe-in), and so you would get your acceptance letter promptly.  Online application process, so you can fill it out tonight, if need be.

 
happypamama

Posted Today, 04:29 AM

That's exactly what I was going to say. Twenty years ago, they only wanted stats for regular admission, no extracurriculars, and iirc, when I checked not long ago, it didn't appear to have changed. Their honors program is hard to get into, but the general school? I don't think it's too difficult. University Park campus is more selective, but they have so many branch campuses that I don't think it's too hard to get into one of them. They have like 40,000 undergrads; I'd think a student with good SATs and grades and classes would have no problem getting an acceptance.
 
 
Caroline

Posted Today, 02:30 AM

Kennesaw State in Georgia

 

mamato4

Posted Today, 12:19 AM

Rutgers U in NJ has rolling admissions and an easy application process.  You even self report your grades in the application. No need to send in a transcript.  The New Brunswick campus is the main one with the most majors while the other campuses have less choices but not as competitive to get into.  She'll still be considered accepted at Rutgers no matter which campus she gets accepted into.

 

 

Joan:

Hoping my crude attempt at Multiquote will work this time, just wanted to thank you for the options...esp Rutgers - finding an easier branch!

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Okay, I found it. Looks like its a combination of a US Diploma and AP Tests. Individual universities have their own requirements, and certain AP Tests are excluded entirely.

 

http://vweb.swissuniversities.ch/fr/services/admission-a-luniversite/pays/etats-unis/?tx_felogin_pi1%5Bforgot%5D=1&cHash=2cf4bcad96aa32b75723b4764e43eded

 

JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst

Posted Today, 03:57 AM

Do you actually need to have an acceptance or do you need to show what is required for acceptance (ie pick a good university, show the list of college prep courses they require, and then pull last year's class profile to show what SAT scores are admitted). 

 

It seems like this requirement is designed for most other countries' admissions policies when tend to be based on an entrance exam score that is universally accepted at all national unis.  The US admissions system is so different and competition for spots not universally determined that it is hard to compare.

 
Joan:
Yeah - that cut and paste worked last post so hopefully this time too...
 
Lawyer Mom - the part that is hidden in that link - if you look under Conditions gĂƒÂ©nĂƒÂ©rales
 
you'll see this (I've made a replacement with abbreviations to try to not be so easy to find on searches)

Sur demande de l' U CH, il incombera aux candidats et candidates d'apporter la preuve

  • qu'une place d'ĂƒÂ©tudes leur est attribuĂƒÂ©e dans ce pays et,

Now it does say "sur demande" meaning maybe they will ask...But since things keep changing, we just ran into the problem for dd first choice school (actually not an official "university" but a "haute ecole") requiring that she have her diploma "in hand" before she can apply, which is the case for her second choice as well, I worry that in the future, things will become even harder...esp since we are not coming from a "typical" background...Ds3 got in with the requirements you linked, but recently they changed a requirement which isn't even listed on the page you link...They can get away with that because it says that universities can have their own requirements...

 

So "Jumped In"...I agree that it would typically be for other countries...it is just the unusualness of our situation (I do not know anyone else in the country that has done what we did for ds3 and hope to do for dd) that makes me nervous. Seeing my dd studying so hard thinking she'll get in, then having the door suddenly closed in her face with the "diploma in hand" requirement made it very clear the power they have with their "yearly" conditions that can change and you don't even know what they are until January of the year you are applying for....So for example, the school ds3 went to, suddenly posts that you have to have two consecutive years of continuous math and physics....The math part, no problem. But dd had wanted to do AP Physics. Since PAH wasn't doing it since the test had changed, dd suddenly had to do AP Chem. We didn't even know that it would 'close' that school door! Just like that. And you don't even find out about it until it is too late to have any hope. Now since she didn't do Physics this year, she would have to do two more years of physics. But then she would have to be doing more math and then more of everything because it is this summary type of program where you have to have a certain percent of everything....

Anyway, have to run!

 

Thank you all for your help!! 

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There really is no such thing as a US diploma that qualifies you for any university in the US. Unlike many countries we don't have a national diploma and we don't have national universities. Even US schools recognize the limitations of a US Diploma. Look at the UCs with their A-G course requirements and mandatory SAT subject tests.

 

Switzerland knows the limitations of a US diploma, which is why it is necessary but not sufficient for admission.

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Typed my last post before yours posted.

 

I'm impressed you've successfully jumped through all these hurdles before. The changing requirements would drive me batty.

 

I would keep Germany in mind as a back up plan. At the very least you have DAAD available to answer questions. From what I saw as an exchange student, if you meet the requirements, admissions are very straight forward and not competitive. Of course I'm assuming German language abilities....

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Typed my last post before yours posted.

 

I'm impressed you've successfully jumped through all these hurdles before. The changing requirements would drive me batty.

 

I would keep Germany in mind as a back up plan. At the very least you have DAAD available to answer questions. From what I saw as an exchange student, if you meet the requirements, admissions are very straight forward and not competitive. Of course I'm assuming German language abilities....

 

 

She did her German AP and this past year did Goethe online which didn't turn out to be so good as she didn't learn that much...I think it is a mismatch between American goals and German goals and order of topics...She's just starting B2 level according to them but was an au pair in Germany for 6 weeks.  So what level did you have when you went?

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Joan, do you think it would work to apply to one of the universities in Europe that have courses in English? If she got into one of Louvain's English language taught programs, would that work? Their deadline is Mar 1, so you could still do it. I know there are more, Louvain just popped into my head.

 

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Texas A&M has admit above a certain SAT score.  They offered  ds admission based on that before he even completed the rest of the application.

 

I was curious about Nan's question too...but I don't think you are from Texas so it must be for any American then?

 

I was just looking at their admissions policy and "admit" does look easy actually....

 

Now we'll wait for the SAT score...

 

ETD

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Texas A&M Admissions closed in December, so that one wouldn't work as well. I thought the academic admit (sat scores and school rank of top 25%) was instate. You all made me curious and I couldn't find anything online that stated that, so I've edited post for more than typos this time.

 

How about Auburn in Alabama? Or perhaps University of Alabama? I think they both have rolling admissions and since they don't(last time I checked) required an essay or anything, could be pretty straight forward admission process. If a nonflagship state school would work, you could probably get fast turnaround. Here in Texas, a smaller school like Texas A&M Corpus Christi similar to what Nan in Mass mentioned, as an example.

http://admissions.tamucc.edu/freshman/homeschool.html

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Re: German language ability. Germany has very set requirements for university language ability. There are two tests you can take. The DAAD website has the specifics.

 

https://www.daad.de/deutschland/nach-deutschland/voraussetzungen/en/6221-german-language/

 

As an exchange student I was exempt from the requirements. They wanted as many Americans as they could get to increase the number of Germans who could participate in the reciprocal exchange.

 

I think the AP test would be good preparation for the University language tests. The test is aimed at a B2/C1 level. It has reading comprehension, listening comprehension, writing and speaking components.

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I started doing my homework yesterday but it doesn't look very systematic....it seems there are some difficulties of one kind or another but I'm also having trouble thinking clearly...

 

At the same time I'm comparing these vastly different systems..European and American...There is so much flexibility in the American system...you can surely find a school somewhere which will fit..usually for a price...Then the European system, esp here where once you have the right CH exam, there is none of the question mark of being accepted...But the exams are fairly lock step, and you have to do them in two years or something I think for Germany...here I think too but have to check. So if you fail then you are stuck..It not like the AP's where you can do them again the next year for just one subject, etc...or just switch subjects...I feel overwhelmed when I'm looking at all these different universities, trying to sort through different deadlines, requirements, etc. And all the different application formats....I am getting a better feeling for what people are facing in the US...

 

Probably the worst problem I see in looking at the apps is the LOR's...Do they have to come from a teacher and can it come from online class teachers? If not, people who know her best here tend to write in French so this will be an effort to find and do...Do all schools require an LOR? No one does here in CH....No essay here either...

 
I started with some schools given with more info from you ladies or that had something esp attractive so I didn't have to search myself...free or low cost app, ease of app, HS friendly, good or rolling deadline
 
The schools where you can preview the app without having an account are very handy..."admit" is looking very tempting...
 
Loyola - free but have to have downpayment in May - rolling adm best by April 6 - online app -  LOR seems to have to come from teacher? Looked like a good possibility...
Maine - $40 -Feb 15 best, tho can later - may want to interview HS candidates (which kind of worried me), LOR has to be from outside the family (maybe that's common?) 
Penn State - $50- rolling but priority Jan 31
Rutgers - $75 - rolling - schools match - online app - looked like a good possibility..
Old Dominion - can't find app price - April 1 best...online app
U AL - no essay
U AZ - $65 - May 1st deadline - not sure about the science requirements..it says test scores only valuable for one...so how do homeschoolers get validated?
Texas - "admit" but deadline in Dec...
Kenneshaw -$60 - Priority Nov May 8
stared looking at OHSU but then remembered I should look for HE friendly states...(I feel so scatterbrained at the moment)
 
so then HE friendly states: 
  • States requiring no notice include Alaska, Connecticut, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, Oklahoma and Texas.
  • States with low regulation (parental notification only) include Alabama, Arizona, California, Delaware, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Washington D.C., Wisconsin and Wyoming

I think I need to make a proper grid with all the variables in order with the most priority....

 

I have to get to bed but I'm really glad for all your help...

Joan

 

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Joan - You are in Switzerland. I can almost guarentee that Maine will not require an interview. Ditto with other schools. I think at most, they will set up a phone or skype interview. I think your daughter, because she has high "provability" from her testing and is English speaking and is living in another country, is going to be VERY attractive to colleges here in the US. Try not to worry. I think you should have your daughter apply to a few universities with paper applications - U. of Maine, Missouri Western State University, U. of Alabama, and maybe something in Arizona. Print out and fill out by hand the paper app. Mail that, your transcript, a cover letter, a check, and a "school profile" (a letter from you explaining where you live and why that is unique (language opportunities, cultural opportunities), that English is the language spoken at home, the structure of your homeschool, what tests your daughter has taken, what outside classes your daughter has taken, that you have used The Well Trained Mind curriculum (don't go into detatils), and a few adjectives about your daughter (hard working, lively, friendly, or whatever). Try to keep that short, not more than a page. Include copies of any language proficiency tests or any other tests she has official sheets for. In the cover letter, say that SAT and other test scores will be arriving from the test companies, and that a letter of recommendation will also be arriving seperately. Send it off. Then find a non-family member to send a letter of recommendation. If it shows up in French or German, so be it. Give the person cover letters and self-addressed stamped envelopes to make it easy for them. In the cover letter, put your daughter's name and birthday and the information that this is a college letter of recommendation for her so if the language isn't English, the uni will know what it is. I think you should do this right now, while many students are still applying. Applications in the US have been moving earlier and earlier and you don't want the colleges to run out of room.

 

That is what *I* would do, anyway. : )

 

Lots of hugs,

Nan

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My dd might be applying to Swiz universities as well, and I really don't think your scenario will actually happen... I'm sure they now a bit about US applications, and if you have the required AP exams, a high school diploma, I think you would be fine. A recommendation letter is something I would advice. I don't think you should worry, and if I were you I wouldn't apply to US universities to have a document that shows your dd would be allowed entry in us colleges, but that's just me.

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My dd might be applying to S universities as well, and I really don't think your scenario will actually happen... I'm sure they now a bit about US applications, and if you have the required AP exams, a high school diploma, I think you would be fine. A recommendation letter is something I would advice. I don't think you should worry, and if I were you I wouldn't apply to US universities to have a document that shows your dd would be allowed entry in us colleges, but that's just me.

 

Hi Ariana,

 

I'm very curious about your recommendation about having a recommendation letter for a Swiss university as I've not seen that anywhere.  Are you from here or have experience applying or your children applying here? I'd like very much to discuss privately if so to see what more you know, esp if they applied as HE and will write a PM...

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I think your daughter, because she has high "provability" from her testing and is English speaking and is living in another country, is going to be VERY attractive to colleges here in the US. Try not to worry. I think you should have your daughter apply to a few universities with paper applications - U. of Maine, Missouri Western State University, U. of Alabama, and maybe something in Arizona. Print out and fill out by hand the paper app. Mail that, your transcript, a cover letter, a check, and a "school profile" (a letter from you explaining where you live and why that is unique (language opportunities, cultural opportunities), that English is the language spoken at home, the structure of your homeschool, what tests your daughter has taken, what outside classes your daughter has taken, that you have used The Well Trained Mind curriculum (don't go into detatils), and a few adjectives about your daughter (hard working, lively, friendly, or whatever). Try to keep that short, not more than a page. Include copies of any language proficiency tests or any other tests she has official sheets for. In the cover letter, say that SAT and other test scores will be arriving from the test companies, and that a letter of recommendation will also be arriving seperately. Send it off. Then find a non-family member to send a letter of recommendation. If it shows up in French or German, so be it. Give the person cover letters and self-addressed stamped envelopes to make it easy for them. In the cover letter, put your daughter's name and birthday and the information that this is a college letter of recommendation for her so if the language isn't English, the uni will know what it is. I think you should do this right now, while many students are still applying. Applications in the US have been moving earlier and earlier and you don't want the colleges to run out of room.

 

Nan you are so kind!  And thank you so much Joan HomeEd!

 

I was going to do the combination of your and Joan HE's ideas...

 

High accept rates combined with HE friendly states to have the least paperwork requirement...And then check in the B T to make sure it's a school accepted by them...

 

I'm being paged by the cook but hope to get on it soon!

 

Many hugs to you too, :-)

Joan

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  • 2 months later...

an update :-)....

 

Dd has gotten some acceptance letters (dependent on passing AP's in May) - not for the program she really wants to attend, but for some 'interim' work which might turn into her career choice!  :hurray:

 

For people interested in applying here from Canada for example, it is clear on at least one website (for a public university and a program recognized by the school)

 

that you need to prove acceptance so

 

I am very grateful for all the efforts of those who answered which has helped me see an easy path !!!  :001_smile:

 

and so that I am prepared should the program where she will apply next year choose to have that view for the US.

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

You probably won't believe that I'm still agonizing over this - today's the last day to apply and dd has one more app to finish.

 

Anyway, for this one, at first I thought it sufficient to just show she would have the same exams to apply to a similar school. But as I kept rereading the directions inside the application (they don't divulge everything on the public pages), it seemed like they were insisting that a student should have proof....

 

So then I thought, well, if there are US unis which do admit, why don't I just explain that, and show her SAT scores which would show that she could be admitted to more than just the easiest schools.....as then she would fall into the category of not needing to supply proof :-)

 

So a special thank you to all who helped me understand the possibilities!

 

ETD

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