strategies for paying attention in kindergarten

[Tsuga]

My daughter is... Active. Hyper. Chatty. Intense.

 

She needs to pay more attention in class. The teacher has two kids with IEPs already. I want to help her out with simple ideas. She did not say this explicitly--I noticed accommodations at two desks without realizing it was for an IEP and said, "Oh that would be helpful!" And she said that the school psych needed to help with that, then realized she'd slipped and said "bit this is about your daughter..." I mention this because I know the teacher has a lot to deal with already. She is not lazy.

 

Anyway, she's open. I would like to try things before calling the school psych. Circle time, transitions and lines are hardest. Any ideas?

[regentrude]

Exercise before school. It is unreasonable to expect kindergarteners to sit still and pay attention for the amount of time that is required in schools in this country.

We walked to school, and that helped my kids sit and focus better.

[SKL]

I agree with the exercise.  Also I used to remind my kids on the way to school of some basic behaviors, such as "remember to put down your pencil and listen to the teacher when she is talking."

 

She may just grow out of this IMO.  In my day, KG was half a day, and that included a nap and snack and recess etc.  Kids sat in the front of the room during the short lessons, with nothing to do except watch the teacher / answer her questions.  Amazingly we learned to read etc.  We were given one worksheet at a time and didn't have our own crayons, pencils, books, etc.  Nothing to do except either pinch the kid next to us or obey the teacher.  If today's kids can't manage KG well, it's because it isn't really KG anymore.

 

This makes me wonder if you could do anything to simplify the environment from your end.  Like make sure your child only has the bare minimum supplies and accessories, plain clothes, hair tied back, etc.  Not sure if that would make any difference or not.  :)

 

When my kid (then almost 6) started having issues in 1st grade, I also cut her sugar as that had a noticeable effect on her.  I increased protein and reduced carbs in her breakfast.  I'm really not sure if that made any difference at all.  She was also doing some therapies for some physical issues that impacted attention / behavior.  Ultimately, though, the issue was the age-inappropriate expectations, and I afterschooled to make up for what she missed in school.

[Library Momma]

I know some students use a squishy cushion to sit on during class similar to this:

 

https://funandfunction.com/15-wiggle-cushion.html

 

Normally they are used for IEPs but often the school has a few extra floating around and teachers can suggest them at their discretion for other students they think will benefit.  I have a friend whose son's second grade teacher did this and it worked wonders.  If the school doesn't have one to spare perhaps you can purchase one and send it in.

 

I would also have the teacher keep an eye on who your daughter gravitates towards during circle time or when standing in line.  Simply separating her from a particular student or two during that time can also make a difference.

 

 

 

 

[Tsuga]

Thanks to all. To clarify a few things:

 

Regarding exercise, the children get three recesses per day here, plus sport after school, plus outdoor time running around after school. I will ask my partner to let her run around more before school.

 

 

I know some students use a squishy cushion to sit on during class similar to this:

 

Haha. We have that. It does nothing towards her energy level, and as for its presence--that would be a bad idea in the classroom. However, I do appreciate the suggestion. She needs fewer distractions.

 

 

I would also have the teacher keep an eye on who your daughter gravitates towards during circle time or when standing in line.

 

She does. They are all ordered very carefully by the teacher. Teacher used to allow some choice, but due to the classroom make-up (including my kid) it has gotten to the point where now she actually has to have them all line up in exactly the same way every day. She does not want to do this but due to about four kids (only 20 in the class), she has to make careful arrangements to space them out. I was aware of this early on in the year. She did this on day two and then progressed to a single order every time.

 

 

Like make sure your child only has the bare minimum supplies and accessories, plain clothes, hair tied back, etc.

 

What else would she have, though?  She is not playing with things. She is talking to herself, talking across tables to anybody, and drawing with her pencil on herself.

 

She is friends with the whole class. There is nobody she will not talk to, although that would be cool.

 

 

I also cut her sugar as that had a noticeable effect on her.  I increased protein and reduced carbs in her breakfast

 

I beg my partner to do this but I'm not in charge of breakfast. His kids eat sugar cereals for breakfast. I will have to push this. I will boil and peel the eggs ahead of time.

 

Maybe I can get a letter from the school psychologist after all. His children are normal, so he doesn't get the fuss. Well, his boy can be off at times, but then, he's a boy and a summer birthday so he gets a free pass. Nice to be a boy!

 

 

Meet the need behind the conversing, whether that is intellectual, social, or something else.

 

The need is to be the center of attention, be fully stimulated, and in charge at all times. I might have to send her off to Buckingham Palace. :)

 

 

Transitions are up to the teacher. She knows how to cue the behavior she wants....ask your child if she is cooperating. Have her show you the routine.

 

Teacher is not having trouble with most of the children. My child knows she is not cooperating. When I ask her why it is because she forgets. She forgets because she is thinking about other things. What I need is for a way to help her think about the right things.

 

At home I clap very loudly, sing a song over their voices until they join in (VERY LOUDLY, almost yelling, otherwise they don't hear it), or just leave without them and have them run after me. I have tried:

 

-preparing for transitions with conversation;

-singing transitions;

-physically assisted transitions;

-warning transitions with natural consequences;

-child-led transitions;

-1-2-3 magic transitions;

-gentle silent transitions.

 

It turns out that my older one just wants to be in control and the little one doesn't give a rodent's behind. None of these work for us. Loud noises followed by enforced punishment and/or I just leave or pick up their things without their consent "works" in that we transition. These are not appropriate for a group, or any non-emergent situation.

 

 

She may just grow out of this IMO.

 

To some extent, yes, and I have emphasized this with the teacher--that I realize it's a personality thing, that it's also developmental.

 

But for the time being I want to help her succeed and help her teacher in the classroom.

 

Maybe being a teacher's helper would be good.

 

This kid has gone on a 10 mile hike and when we came home, she wanted to ride a bike. She has skied three miles uphill at the age of 4. After swim class, she usually wants to work out with me. I understand because I am the same. I could run for hours. The idea of getting energy out is... not realistic. :) She has to learn to focus.

[mathnerd]

Swim class isnt particularly strenuous. Swimming laps is helpful

This is true. My child is particularly energetic and we call him the energizer bunny. He has serious sleep issues when he does not burn off his energy.

 

My advise is to get in very rigorous, "structured" exercise for an hour with a coach in the form of a sport (in addition to recess, school PE). Attending classes, free form playing, biking in the park etc were insufficient for my child. He is enrolled in structured sports - he trains with a coach each evening for an hour - we alternate between 2 sports. As an example - one of them is swimming laps in a swim team - he is required to swim 40-50 laps each evening with monthly goals on improvement of speed/technique and he is in another sport (again with a coach with a schedule). As a parent, I was unable to provide the level of physical exercise he needed and hence we outsourced.

 

From my experience, it is OK to save the rigorous exercise for after school if that is what your schedule allows - my child seems to reap the same benefits from exercising after school. 

[SKL]

My kid also needs to do a lot of vigorous exercise.  We do at least one sport per day, sometimes 2 or even 3.  Of course this makes other things such as homework and bedtime harder to manage, but it really is necessary for us.

 

We don't do exercise in the morning (other than the walk/run to the school bus) because we don't have the discipline to get up that early.  It probably would help though.

[Tsuga]

---

 

This entire post is so incredibly insulting and condescending, aside from the question of calling my child a whore of any kind, that I will for the first time in my entire life ignore someone on the internet. Holy crap. You win, you officially are the worst person I have met on the Internet in the 20 years I've been on it. Revel in it, you just called a five year old a whore. That has got to be some kind of accomplishment for you.

 

 

 

For the rest of you, my kids do their own dishes, make their own breakfast, do 1.5 hours of sport a night, plus an instrument, and other intellectual enrichment. I have posted about this on the board. Aside from two foreign languages (so reading in three languages), a sport, advanced math, outdoor time, chess/robotics/art class, before-school crosswords and hangman, not to mention chores including putting away their own laundry, making their own breakfast and part of lunch, helping with dinner, clearing their own places and also cleaning the kitchen once a week plus cleaning another room of the house, cleaning their own rooms, no, quite frankly, there is NOT more we are doing to do. We have discipline that I work extremely hard at and I am totally aware of how to do it--my children are very active. And that's awesome.

 

I did not ask how to stimulate my kids more outside of school because our family is doing quite well in most aspects. But that is fine. It's understandable not to have read my post history. So to clarify--my child is not a "ho" of any kind, my child has a ton of intellectual stimulation, we play a lot of sports (though not before school), and I am a mature mother who has a well-developed discipline plan. That plan has been developed based on my kids whom I know. Traditional stuff doesn't work because my kids aren't traditional. Obviously.

 

We have ONE issue right  now which is a FIVE YEAR OLD getting distracted in a SEVEN HOUR IMMERSION CLASS.

 

Yes it's a problem, no it is not a disorder which would in any way justify misogynistic insults.

 

Yes she is active. Yes we have to go beyond easy discipline. No, that does not mean there is something wrong with her. It is just her.

 

I am looking for tools, not personal attacks.

[regentrude]

Aside from two foreign languages (so reading in three languages), a sport, advanced math, outdoor time, chess/robotics/art class, before-school crosswords and hangman, not to mention chores including putting away their own laundry, making their own breakfast and part of lunch, helping with dinner, clearing their own places and also cleaning the kitchen once a week plus cleaning another room of the house, cleaning their own rooms, no, quite frankly, there is NOT more we are doing to do.

 

 

We have ONE issue right  now which is a FIVE YEAR OLD getting distracted in a SEVEN HOUR IMMERSION CLASS.

 

I think it is entirely normal for a 5 year old to get distracted in a long class. I honestly do not think it is reasonable to expect the contrary.

 

With all the enrichment and stimulation going on in her life, she is also probably simply bored at school. But I don't think there are remedies for that either - school is incredibly boring for a bright child.

 

[LaughingCat]

For the rest of you, my kids do their own dishes, make their own breakfast, do 1.5 hours of sport a night, plus an instrument, and other intellectual enrichment. I have posted about this on the board. Aside from two foreign languages (so reading in three languages), a sport, advanced math, outdoor time, chess/robotics/art class, not to mention chores including putting away their own laundry, making their own breakfast and part of lunch, helping with dinner, clearing their own places and also cleaning the kitchen once a week plus cleaning another room of the house, cleaning their own rooms, no, quite frankly, there is NOT more we are doing to do. We have discipline that I work extremely hard at and I am totally aware of how to do it--my children are very active. And that's awesome.

 

 

I know that post was written from frustration and it sounds like you have an incredibly busy and together family so this is probably out in left field - but your rebuttal to the exercise suggestions is focused on what your family as a whole is doing not what your K'er is specifically doing.    It might be worth listing out to yourself exactly what she does on her own vs. just swept up in the family activities.   Just meant as food for thought because I know I sometimes look at the whole and miss the outlier 

[Mrs. Tharp]

Can they give her more responsibility at school? How about special jobs where she assists the teacher or takes things to the office? That would be a movement break, some heavy work & some mental stimulation all in one.

[Tsuga]

I know that post was written from frustration and it sounds like you have an incredibly busy and together family so this is probably out in left field - but your rebuttal to the exercise suggestions is focused on what your family as a whole is doing not what your K'er is specifically doing. It might be worth listing out to yourself exactly what she does on her own vs. just swept up in the family activities. Just meant as food for thought because I know I sometimes look at the whole and miss the outlier

What I listed was only her.

 

In this post.

 

I have a calendar for her alone--for all of our kids.

 

When I am writing in this thread, it is about her--about her immersion, keeping up in her first foreign language, chess club, robotics, swim, free-play, music, art class, weekend activities, before-school language games, her own five pages of homework, that is all her. Like most families in our area, when at her sister's activities, she is doing the homework or at the park running around. Pretty much the only time she is not really active she is in a social free-play environment which is with a loving grandparent.

 

And as for the attack, I am happy for suggestions in the classroom. But suggestions that my kid has ADD (she does not, and it has never been suggested by anyone at ant activity or classroom), that we are not providing an enriching environment, and rude epithets, yeah that is not what I was looking for.

 

Exercise before school and protein we will certainly try.

 

I just wish I had more tools, real tools to help her concentrate in class.

[Arcadia]

 

What else would she have, though?  She is not playing with things. She is talking to herself, talking across tables to anybody, and drawing with her pencil on herself.

 

I have two energizer bunnies and exercise didn't help.  Seating arrangements help a lot as certain seats in the classroom are just more distracting. Can she doodle in class instead of drawing on herself?  For transitions, the teacher did the loud booming "eyes on me" routine.  Lots of daydreamers in older boy's kindergarten classroom of 20 kids. 

[LaughingCat]

What I listed was only her.

 

In this post.

 

I have a calendar for her alone--for all of our kids.

 

When I am writing in this thread, it is about her--about her immersion, keeping up in her first foreign language, chess club, robotics, swim, free-play, music, art class, weekend activities, before-school language games, her own five pages of homework, that is all her. Like most families in our area, when at her sister's activities, she is doing the homework or at the park running around. Pretty much the only time she is not really active she is in a social free-play environment which is with a loving grandparent.

 

Then the only thing I have to add is -if you are counting 1.5 hours sports because she is at her sister's activities and running around while waiting - then in my experience that does not wear my high activity child out.  For my kids - the one doing the activity is worn out - the one running around playing at the park (even if she's going, going, going the whole time) is not.    I would have to actually ask my child to do multiple high energy activities in a row to wear her out (race/run to tree and back/run around the park, do soccer drills etc ).

[MBM]

  :) She has to learn to focus.

 

The ability to focus can be developed but it can take a little while before you notice a change. Dan Goleman's book Focus explains what's going on in the brain of someone who has trouble focusing. It also explains why it's important to develop it. If you could get something started with your daughter, she'd have a really wonderful tool that would serve her well throughout life. For a 5 year old, 5 minutes per day would be fine to start with and you could break it up, too. Some schools that use mindfulness techniques to help develop focus, have the kids do 2" of mindful breathing three times throughout the school day. Over time this has a big impact. Here's Dan's book and two of his articles.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Focus-The-Hidden-Driver-Excellence-ebook/dp/B00BATG220

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-goleman/the-four-basic-moves-to-s_b_4058294.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-goleman/7-ways-to-sharpen-your-fo_b_4282640.html

 

 

Your daughter is also only five and I imagine having fun and enjoying the social aspect of school. As time goes on, I am sure she will learn how things work in the classroom. She is still just a little one.

 

Dan Siegel's books for younger kids might also be helpful. He has a new one out about warm disciplining which looks interesting. Not saying that you're not warm, just that he sometimes has some unique ways of working with kids.

 

ETA Goldie Hawn's MindUP mindfulness program for kids might be helpful. She developed it with Dan Siegel.

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

 

We have ONE issue right  now which is a FIVE YEAR OLD getting distracted in a SEVEN HOUR IMMERSION CLASS.

 

 

If you have one problem with your child's life, and that problem is

 

A. developmentally inappropriate for a five-year-old in the first place, and

B. entirely unnecessary,

 

why not just pull the child from the program and then have no issues?

 

This is not meant to be sarcastic or school-bashing. If an educational opportunity is a good fit for a child, and the child AND her parents like it, I choose to have zero opinion. But when that's obviously not the case even though everybody involved wishes it were....

 

I had five-year-olds who were too smart and creative for institutional school so they didn't go and we were all happy. A zillion of us on these boards can tell that identical story.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think it is entirely normal for a 5 year old to get distracted in a long class. I honestly do not think it is reasonable to expect the contrary.

 

With all the enrichment and stimulation going on in her life, she is also probably simply bored at school. But I don't think there are remedies for that either - school is incredibly boring for a bright child.

 

 

Somehow I missed this post. If I had seen it I would have just hit "like" and not posted.

[Tsuga]

Then the only thing I have to add is -if you are counting 1.5 hours sports because she is at her sister's activities and running around while waiting - then in my experience that does not wear my high activity child out. For my kids - the one doing the activity is worn out - the one running around playing at the park (even if she's going, going, going the whole time) is not. I would have to actually ask my child to do multiple high energy activities in a row to wear her out (race/run to tree and back/run around the park, do soccer drills etc ).

No, when we get home, we leave the house and run in the park.

 

I concede that I am not running a boot camp with skill drills, running laps, and all the stuff that getting energy out entails. They play by playing tag, playing on the bats, and swings.

 

However there is an important trade off here, which is that at five, she needs time not to have someone telling her what to do. She has all of two hours for that.

 

The kids wake, go to school, then she has an after-school academic club, then we come home. Once per week we go straight to an activity. Other days are go outside to play while mom gets stuff done. 1 hr later, we go to sport for her or her sister, then academic lessons for her sister. During her sister's lesson she usually does homework so that she will be done and can play at home. Her sister does the same at her lesson. We go outdoors during the longer lesson and she climbs trees. So they both wait around for 30 minutes 2x / week while the other does sport (no there are no concurrent lessons) but that's it. The rest of the time she's outdoors or getting mental stimulation.

 

Then dinner, music practice, read alouds. Of course chores.

 

I can see fitting in drills before school for 20 minutes and again after school instead of homework or free play.

 

But let me ask you... Do you really think more structured, mom-directed play is a good idea? Doesn't she need time to... You know... Be five?

 

It seems sad to me to have her only free hour left filled with running laps.

[Tsuga]

@Tibbie... yes, kindergarten is no longer developmentally appropriate. I sent my first to a private kindergarten. I simply can't afford it any more and moreover, to get into the immersion class I needed to start her in K.

 

I agree that if school isn't working, then stop. But one hurdle, one difficulty, is not "school not working", you know? You wouldn't stop if you had to make adjustments homeschooling.

 

Nobody in the class is suffering. Generally it is a happy place. The teacher is loving and understanding. Her concern is for my daughter's social well-being. She is not unkind. She has helped in many ways.

 

For DD2, school is hard in one area. Okay. That's a challenge. But she loves the social input, she likes learning skills, and the school has a great future for her.

 

In principle, I agree with you and I would LOVE to be able to have one more year with this little one in a no/low academic environment. But this one year is really the hard year, then it gets easier.

 

And in fact our school is great. We have recess. We have coloring. We have fun activities. We have music class, art class, language. We have a public school system that surpasses many private schools around the country.

[LaughingCat]

It seems sad to me to have her only free hour left filled with running laps.

 

I wasn't trying to convince you to make your child spend an hour running laps! -- all I meant was what I said --  if you are counting running around playing as exercise that will get the bouncies out for a full day at school (the suggestion by others in this thread)  then in my experience, running around playing does not do it for my children.  They naturally move to their own energy level when playing.    What I have seen in my kids is it needs to be something where the child has to actually work - swimming laps, running soccer drills, running, even biking when they are little.  

 

And actually the only way I have consistently gotten my children to do these things  is to do them myself as well.   I am not sending my child out to run around the block  - I am out running around the block with them (they actually love this and request it - let's go for a run Mom! ... groan!)

 

Anyway, as others have said it could easily be that she is just bored -- bored won't be fixed by running laps!  Bored needs to be addressed by the teacher -- and unfortunately some teachers are better at than others.   

[Lawyer&Mom]

School is boring for a bright child, and I think kindergarten is the worst. School got much better once I learned to read, which for me was first grade. You may have to hang your hope on the fact that it gets better, especially if teachers are willing to steer a child towards higher level books.

[Tsuga]

 

 

And actually the only way I have consistently gotten my children to do these things  is to do them myself as well.

 

Yes, I do agree with you completely. Sorry, running laps was kind of shorthand for, "Mom decides and you do it, no creativity or real freedom here." I understand that she is not expending as much energy in free play. That is really where I'm thinking, what is the trade-off, and is it worth it.

 

 

 

School is boring for a bright child, and I think kindergarten is the worst.

 

I agree to some extent. However I should point out that in this case, she is bored even though it's an immersion environment, and she does not know the language. So even best case scenario, she's missing some of it (this is part of the immersion model at this stage). It's critical that she pay attention because she will learn new words every day and get words reinforced.

 

This is a huge reason I put her in this school. Add to the fact that it's a class of motivated parents, the Chinese culture, and on top of it that there can be leveled learning it should be okay.

 

Anyway learning to pay attention to boring things is pretty critical in life. I don't buy the "too smart to pay attention" model of development. I was that kid. Though, I was an early reader so I was less disruptive. My older daughter also doesn't pay attention but she is reading under the table so it's less of a problem. Also I don't have a problem with getting Cs if you know the material and are reading. I do have a problem if lack of attention is causing you to miss subject matter!

[SKL]

All I can say is, I wish I could have back some of the time and emotional energy I spent worrying about this sort of thing when mine were 5.  Your daughter is bright and inquisitive and active - to me, all of those are excellent things for a 5yo to be, and it's likely they will work together for her when she *needs* to perform competently in school, in sports, etc.

 

I think sometimes teachers tell us about "issues" because they feel they need to say something.

 

I am curious now - does your daughter read?  If she hasn't started reading yet, is this because she is having difficulties, or because she hasn't been taught that far yet?  I am sorry if you have already answered this and I missed it.

[mathnerd]

I do have a problem if lack of attention is causing you to miss subject matter!

 

Well, part of the problem is that if the child has not expended energy, it is really hard to sit still and focus and pay attention. How many hours does your daughter sleep? Does she wake up feeling refreshed or tired in the mornings? I ask because on the days that my DS misses practice he does not sleep well and is not as centered at school on the following day. The other problem is the crowd control skill of the teacher. Even the "nice" teachers who are loving and understanding may not have the skills to control the child and the crowd effectively (I have volunteered in classrooms and some teachers are good at it and some are lousy at it). There is not much that can be done about it because it is personality dependent. 

 

Some things that can be done within her classroom that may help her talk less: to be allowed to bring in a free reading book of her choice, allowed to use legos or pattern blocks to build by herself, moved to a separate desk (most K classes have a common table to seat everyone), told to be seated in the front at circle time. These are what we did for my DS in class in addition to "differentiation in instruction". Ultimately we ended up leaving that school because none of it helped him, but these strategies may work for another child and there is no harm in trying them out. Good luck.

[regentrude]

. However I should point out that in this case, she is bored even though it's an immersion environment, and she does not know the language. So even best case scenario, she's missing some of it (this is part of the immersion model at this stage). It's critical that she pay attention because she will learn new words every day and get words reinforced.

 

But then it makes perfect sense that she would be bored.

Having to sit through 7 hours of instruction in a language one does not know would be hard for an adult.

It is very difficult to stay focused when you understand only part of what is going on, and it must be extremely difficult for a young child.

 

Imagine having to sit through 7 hours of people talking in Icelandic... I'd crawl the walls

[Tsuga]

All I can say is, I wish I could have back some of the time and emotional energy I spent worrying about this sort of thing when mine were 5.  Your daughter is bright and inquisitive and active - to me, all of those are excellent things for a 5yo to be, and it's likely they will work together for her when she *needs* to perform competently in school, in sports, etc.

 

I think sometimes teachers tell us about "issues" because they feel they need to say something.

 

I am curious now - does your daughter read?  If she hasn't started reading yet, is this because she is having difficulties, or because she hasn't been taught that far yet?  I am sorry if you have already answered this and I missed it.

 

I brought it up. The teacher raves about her, actually. But in pre-school they had to deal with behavior issues. So I specifically had this on a list of questions. "How is her behavior--does she pay attention? Is she respectful of other kids? Do you see her with a good friend?" Recently she missed a lot of questions on a recognition test. We did not reinforce the characters at home (too much drilling) so she just forgets them after they cover it in class. Teacher said skip math homework (she is at 2nd grade level and higher in some concepts so there's no point anyway) and focus on drilling language with your homework time so she can tune in. She also said paying attention in class is DD2's big challenge. Of course we are doing the first thing. The second is harder to deal with.

 

She does not read well. She reads CVC words and can read Bob books with ease, but with immersion we are focusing on characters. She is perfectly on track for reading for her age though.  I will teach her to read this summer. There are no cognition issues identified nor any that we would suspect based on performance. The teacher said she is eerily quick and reflective, and can read single words, but then just leaves the activity. "Okay, I can do that, moving on!" Which is reasonable. That's why she's in immersion school. To give her something to work at.

 

 

 

Having to sit through 7 hours of instruction in a language one does not know would be hard for an adult.

It is very difficult to stay focused when you understand only part of what is going on, and it must be extremely difficult for a young child.

 

Yeah, I know. I've done it. That's why I asked for help in strategies.

 

Sorry, the rest of this post was snarky.

 

Frankly it is frustrating to get all this "help" that is not pertinent to the question so I'm sorry I lost my patience.

 

I know immersion is hard. I know k is a lot for many five year olds. I know all this and I'm not really asking about that, and also, I have worked really hard to find a schedule that balances my kids' need for stimulation, exercise, and free time. So getting advice about all that, rather than specific strategies, is frustrating.

 

I know, I know, ask a question on the Internet, get a judgmental and totally irrelevant answer. :) I should really learn to phrase my questions in such a way that I avoid those answers.

 

But still, throughout the thread I've emphasized that I realize this is hard; she will grow out of it; but I want to find specific strategies to help her now.

 

I do appreciate your point of view. She's only been in one school in which she spoke the language, but it was an after-school program in which she spent all day at the park. They said she was extremely good at never stopping moving or talking. I wonder how she'd do if she were in a school where she did speak the language. I think that would be even more boring. I know I found it boring. Plus then her smart-ass comment side would come out and that is not a good side for school.

[regentrude]

.What I was looking for was tips on how to pay attention when it's hard... because it's hard.

 

The question about exercise is directly pertinent to your question, because that is one of the few things that can improve a young child's attention span. The question about intellectual stimulation also has a bearing on the ability of a child to tolerate boredom in school and is thus also directly relevant for your question.

 

And lastly,  the point of some people's reply was that they believe there is no strategy that enables a 5 y/o to live up to a developmentally inappropriate goal and the tip would be to wait for maturity or change educational setting.

 

 

 

 

Edited in response to OP deleting part of post to which I replied

 

 

[SKL]

I did buy a listening therapy for my kid which probably helped some.  It was expensive and I don't know that your daughter needs this kind of help.  Anyway it's called The Listening Program and you can google it.

 

Another thing that causes issues in my kid which look like attention problems is retained primitive reflexes.  My daughter has done therapy for that.  I doubt that is your daughter's issue, though.

 

Finally my daughter has vision problems with effects that look like attention issues.  She had a couple rounds of vision therapy.  I don't know if you have any reason to look into that possibility.  Maybe do a little web research and decide if it's a concern for her.

 

A recommendation I received was to have my daughter read a short book/story and then orally tell what it was about.  Something about the retelling is supposed to help something in the mind integrate, and improve attention / performance.

 

Another recommendation is to periodically give your child multi-part, sequenced instructions so she gets used to listening to the whole instruction, remembering, and executing them in order.

 

There is a book I keep meaning to use with my kid:  "See It, Say It, Do It."  This is supposed to help kids get better about executing on what they are supposed to do.

 

I don't know if any of the above will be helpful to you, but I have tried them for my kid who was exhibiting "attention-like" issues.  My kid, like yours, definitely does NOT have ADHD, but teachers seem all too willing to think that she does.  (Or, they did when she was 5-6yo.)

[TranquilMind]

My daughter is... Active. Hyper. Chatty. Intense.

 

She needs to pay more attention in class. The teacher has two kids with IEPs already. I want to help her out with simple ideas. She did not say this explicitly--I noticed accommodations at two desks without realizing it was for an IEP and said, "Oh that would be helpful!" And she said that the school psych needed to help with that, then realized she'd slipped and said "bit this is about your daughter..." I mention this because I know the teacher has a lot to deal with already. She is not lazy.

 

Anyway, she's open. I would like to try things before calling the school psych. Circle time, transitions and lines are hardest. Any ideas?

Maybe she just is not ready and would benefit from another year with Mom? 

Geez, they sure expect a lot of young kids today. Too much, on the early end. 

[TranquilMind]

No, when we get home, we leave the house and run in the park.

 

I concede that I am not running a boot camp with skill drills, running laps, and all the stuff that getting energy out entails. They play by playing tag, playing on the bats, and swings.

 

However there is an important trade off here, which is that at five, she needs time not to have someone telling her what to do. She has all of two hours for that.

 

The kids wake, go to school, then she has an after-school academic club, then we come home. Once per week we go straight to an activity. Other days are go outside to play while mom gets stuff done. 1 hr later, we go to sport for her or her sister, then academic lessons for her sister. During her sister's lesson she usually does homework so that she will be done and can play at home. Her sister does the same at her lesson. We go outdoors during the longer lesson and she climbs trees. So they both wait around for 30 minutes 2x / week while the other does sport (no there are no concurrent lessons) but that's it. The rest of the time she's outdoors or getting mental stimulation.

 

Then dinner, music practice, read alouds. Of course chores.

 

I can see fitting in drills before school for 20 minutes and again after school instead of homework or free play.

 

But let me ask you... Do you really think more structured, mom-directed play is a good idea? Doesn't she need time to... You know... Be five?

 

It seems sad to me to have her only free hour left filled with running laps.

Yes.  She needs more time to "be five". 

 

That's probably your entire problem here.  Everything she is doing is developmentally completely normal, from what you have said. 

 

 

[Tsuga]

Maybe she just is not ready and would benefit from another year with Mom? 

Geez, they sure expect a lot of young kids today. Too much, on the early end. 

 

It would be nice.

 

We had a private school which had much better expectations. There are many reasons we can no longer attend that school. Certainly it would be nice if public school was free daycare from 3-6 and started at 7 like in some countries.

[Nart]

Why does your daughter need to pay more attention in class? Is she falling behind, is she not able to do the work, is she struggling? I get the sense that she does fine academically, so if she doesn't always pay attention then I wouldn't worry about it for a kindergartner.  I have an active kindergarten boy who I afterschool. I support the teacher by having him complete any work he doesn't finish at home, and will talk to him to tell him to follow rules, but it is up to the teacher to have strategies for circle time, transitions, and lining up.  I know my kid can be rambunctious. However, many, many kindergartners are still learning how to line up without touching someone or bumping into someone or facing the wrong way. The same thing for circle time and transitions. That's why the kids are in kindergarten. 

[LaughingCat]

Based on all you have said in this thread -- I personally would just give my DD quite a bit 'slack' for not being attentive in what would be a hard environment (not understanding the language) for anyone to be attentive for 8 hours much less a very smart very active kid -- as long as the teacher was also giving her the appropriate slack (i.e. not punishing her).

 

For specific activities that are ongoing issues - like standing in line - I would talk about and practice appropriate 'in line behavior' with her  (although this advice seems as obvious to me as you apparently felt the exercise/protein type advice was).

 

Not sure what other strategies you can use when you're not actually there - it's all on the teacher - and she's apparently not even using some strategies she's already using with a couple other children (although I see you said she is using a similar strategy for lining up - so maybe I just misread that part).   

 

[Tsuga]

The strategies she uses with the SN kids require an aid, which those kids have. The props which they have require another adult to properly focus their use. You need a label for the aid and while I am okay with that if truly necessary for classroom function I'm trying to see what we can do ourselves.

 

There is no punishment in the classroom: they move from classroom leader (help lead) to self-choice (choose your free time / rotation) to teacher-choice (teacher chooses your free time/ rotation activity) to need to be alone to calm down. Rights and responsibilities. She has a clear chart so they can see where they are with respect to making decisions. Good decisions -> more responsibility. The teacher has emphasized that some children will take more work to get to self-responsibility and that improvement is the goal.

 

You could look at this as a punishment but I think it is a reasonable classroom management technique and not shaming or anything. Teacher is very kind, loving, and determined. She is very much a high expectations, hard work, group effort person. I think she is doing a good job. I want my daughter to work with her because it is a good ethic. It is the Chinese effort method but with more 

 

Today I finally gave her one technique which was to follow teacher with her mouth. Like lip-synch the teacher and nod along when teacher writes on the board. She said she got to self-choice two times! I have also started looking at books on mindfulness. Next week they will start the running around before school.

[kiwik]

Good luck. You may just have to wait until she is old enough to meet the expectations. Could you spend some time in the class and reassure yourself that she is quite normal? Also maybe next time wait until the teacher comes to you with a problem unless your child is behaving strangely at home. Normal problems 5 year olds have at school can generally be left to the teacher assuming you trust the teacher which in this case it seems you do.

[Tsuga]

 

 

Also maybe next time wait until the teacher comes to you with a problem unless your child is behaving strangely at home.

 

Yeah, that's a thought. But she came to me with a problem--"I'm not happy because teacher keeps telling me I need to listen but I don't listen and that's why I didn't do X on this test."

 

So that was more where I am coming from on this.

 

I understand that she's normal.

 

But normal does not mean, "Could not use specific behavioral tools to improve herself."

 

I can't be the only parent who tries to help their kid improve in school in spite of their being "good enough" for the teacher. I think the instinct is to assume that if there is a desire for improvement, there must be a judgment.

 

But we are "happy but never satisfied". She is who she is. We love her. Like all of us she is imperfect and has strengths and weaknesses. The goal is to work on weaknesses and bolster strengths.

 

Her teacher said she noticed that she's trying. So that is great.

[Kerileanne99]

You mentioned props, and I imagine they are specifically geared toward kids with IEPs...but would the teacher allow you to tie a stretchy rubber therapy band around the legs of your dd's chair? I have an extremely high-energy dd5 that this works wonders for. She simply needs to bounce to release the some energy, and it really helps her focus at those times when she is doing something that requires being seated:)

It is virtually silent, unobtrusive, and does not interfere with anything she is doing: yet she is able to bounce her feet up and down constantly.

I recently saw an entire 1st grade classroom outfitted so that bike pedals had been added under the desks of each child! Whenever the urge struck, a child can pedal away as they work! Obviously not a perfect thing as I am sure the kids could benefit from less time in desks, but still...how cool is that? Hubby is going to try to make one for my dd.

[Tsuga]

Interesting idea Kerileanne. Because it would be out of sight and out of her hands, she might. Are you talking about those bands that we use for weights, like workout bands? She might! Always hesitant to have something she could actually touch but a band might work.

 

My older daughter might benefit from that too. She has a 2 in attention / effort as well but because she knows the material and the teacher said she's not disruptive I don't care so much. The little one needs to learn.

 

Thanks for the tip!

[kiwik]

If your daughter is unhappy with the teacher asking her to pay attention you have an advantage over most. Hopefully she will be willing to try ideas rather than saying everything is fine and fighting you. I'm sure between you you can come up with some techniques.

[SKL]

I am not really sure how giving kids something to play with is going to improve attention.  I get how it will keep hyper kids in their seats and quiet, but are they actually listening actively?

[Arcadia]

I am not really sure how giving kids something to play with is going to improve attention. I get how it will keep hyper kids in their seats and quiet, but are they actually listening actively?

It is not much different from kids twirling their pencils, fidgeting with their hair, swinging their legs, wiggling on their bum, using a stress ball or just doodling.

It is likely easier for some kids to listen attentively when they do not need to expend energy to stop being in motion.

[Tsuga]

I am not really sure how giving kids something to play with is going to improve attention.  I get how it will keep hyper kids in their seats and quiet, but are they actually listening actively?

 

I think if it's with the feet, not in the hands, it could help. Just relieve a little stress like tapping your foot.

[MBM]

Your daughter sounds very creative. When a person's mind wanders, they are going into a creative state. Search on Google using mind wander creativity if you want to learn more. If she can learn to rein herself in at will so that she can focus, that would help her apply her ideas better.

 

I think your daughter would do really well in a forest school but since she's in her immersion school, try giving her a lot of access to nature when possible. Just playing outside and observing what's going on can be beneficial. When she has free time, you could try letting her gather things to turn into her creations. Maybe she could make some art like Andy Goldworthy or just build things out of stuff like toilet paper rolls, cardboard, etc. My two older kids spent a lot of time making things and now it's what they do for a living.

 

Your daughter is also working on getting to know and interacting with her classmates. I think it's great that she is friends with everyone. She'll learn eventually what she needs to do to get along with her teacher but one idea that might help her along would be to write down or make a pictograph on an index card the three top behaviors she needs to work on. Get her input and have her do it with you so that way she'll feel more like a part of the solution. I'd also tell her that we all have things to work on, even adults, and thinking about them helps us make changes so we can live better lives. Then, put the index card where she'll see it easily and it will remind her. Every now and then, review the index card with her and ask her how she's done. Don't chastise when she flubs (she will). Just tell her that maybe the next time she'll remember. Give her a small compliment her when she tells you things like she was talking to a friend but remembered she had to not talk. When she can stop for a moment and think about what she's doing, that is being mindful.

 

Btw, my youngest went to an immersion school and it was a great experience. They absorb the language like sponges. My ideal would be an immersion forest school until about age seven. :)

[Tsuga]

I would love to do a forest school. In fact she was in a really nice pre-school. But this is public school--we can't afford more private, so oh well.

 

 

 

 They absorb the language like sponges. My ideal would be an immersion forest school until about age seven

 

Mine too! In fact that is what we got with our German immersion pre-school program. DD1 went through K and as an Oct. birthday she was nearly seven when she left. Well, maybe not "forest" school but certainly a school that valued outdoor time. DD1 is an April b-day and we moved before she got to K. :( So DD1 got about 1.5 more years of that experience, but then she gets less immersion now (long story).

 

Thanks for the ideas!

[Kerileanne99]

Interesting idea Kerileanne. Because it would be out of sight and out of her hands, she might. Are you talking about those bands that we use for weights, like workout bands? She might! Always hesitant to have something she could actually touch but a band might work.

 

My older daughter might benefit from that too. She has a 2 in attention / effort as well but because she knows the material and the teacher said she's not disruptive I don't care so much. The little one needs to learn.

 

Thanks for the tip!

Yes, that sort of stretchy rubber tubing. It comes in different strengths, but I like it to be as firm as possible. It just helps her burn a bit of excess energy as she works in a way that doesn't interfere with what she is doing and isn't distracting:)

Who knows, the teacher might be willing to let all the kids try it as it is is a relatively inexpensive option...

[aug17girl]

With my oldest we had lots of discussions at home about the importance of listening in class and not interrupting the class.  There were lots of discussion about how talking in class keeps other kids from learning.  We talked about alternative things he could do instead of shouting out and socializing.  I found that he seemed to have a pent-up need to talk and socialize when he got home as he started to be quieter at school so I got to hear even more long monologues than usual. 

 

We did also used rewards at home and asked teacher to verbally praise and/or write in his agenda when he did well.  Focusing on the positive seemed to help.  But ultimately, these are all blunt tools, and we didn't find any quick fixes. 

[Daria]

I agree with you that 7 hours of immersion is a lot for a 5 year old, but at the same time, you've chosen to put her in an afterschool academic club, and chess lessons, and a musical instrument, and formal sports.  

 

It sounds like she's meeting her needs for control, and freedom in the classroom, in part because she doesn't have time for those things after school.  Have you considered just letting her "be 5" from dismissal until bedtime?  Maybe a few minutes of homework (the stuff assigned by school, not stuff you add on), and then hours to play and make her own decisions, and develop her imagination?  

[Tsuga]

 

 

It sounds like she's meeting her needs for control, and freedom in the classroom, in part because she doesn't have time for those things after school.  Have you considered just letting her "be 5" from dismissal until bedtime?

 

Yes, I have. The after-school clubs are because I work. So that one hour is not negotiable. She could be in free-play. That would cost twice what all the kids' activities cost together as it's through the school district, we aren't poor enough for a subsidy, and you have to pay for the whole thing, not by the hour. Needless to say that is a sacrifice I just have to ask her to make. I have taken out two clubs and she is with a sitter. That doubles her monthly after-school care cost but I'm doing it.

 

As for the rest--she begs for it. When we don't have it, she hangs on me and whines, begs, pleads, bribes, and threatens to run away: to have another language, another instrument, and another sport on top of what she has. Things I have said no to THIS FEBRUARY (and obviously she knows what commitment is by this point): Girl Scouts, drama club, choir, guitar lessons (but not giving up violin), soccer, gymnastics, ballet, French, and German.

 

I agree she has a lot. I did a lot at her age and what I remember is that my mom didn't "let me do anything"! Amazing.

 

And she cried when I took her out of the clubs to be with the sitter (drama and art). What can I say? She doesn't mind creative activities. She does fine for an hour. She does fine with hands-on things. They aren't too structured. What she does not do well with is following instructions without a specific output. 

 

 

I don't do well with that myself, either.  :blushing:

 

[kiwik]

Juggling work and school is hard. I wish we had access to after school clubs that didn't require me to finish work in time to take them.

 

Remember though barring actual issues which she doesn't seem to have, she will be able to concentrate better each year. This year may just be extra hard and this time of the year must be hard in the North. It is hard here too but for the opposite reasons.

[SKL]

Yeah, Kiwik, that is a good point about the time of year.  My eldest is seriously  depressed about the weather and short days and always being cold and never being allowed to go out for recess.  Blah!  I could see some kids getting pretty antsy in the classroom.