Elisabet1 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I mentioned my son before. He is 20, in college. Has some special issues, traumatic brain injury (from birth) and high functioning autism spectrum disorder. He lost some of his funding this spring due to his grades in big major not being good. He was a computer science major. Under the condition that he raises his grades, he can have his financial aid reinstated next fall. So we are paying in the meantime. Problem is, he registered for what is equal to 18 semester hours. He is retaking a computer science class he previously got an F in. He is taking second semester Japanese (he got a C in the first semester), Interpreting Literature (he is actually a great reader and writer), and American Government. And there is a 2 credit computer science class too. I am worried. I told him I am worried. I think I might feel better if he dropped one thing. Or he took a very different class, like art. I looked up the reviews for the profs for the English and the Government class. Both got good reviews. But the English professor, while he got good reviews, it said he was a hard grader, and everyone said they learned a ton in his class, he was a great teacher, but a hard grader so do not come to this class expecting to skate by at all, ever. I do believe my son is more interested in English than government, but it would seem to me that this would point to that in a semester where your entire future rides on these grades (we cannot continue to pay for this, we are paying in one semester what we could have afford in one year, so no way can we keep this up for a long time, especially when he is not making the grades), that perhaps a hard grader is not what someone should be taking. On the other hand, perhaps he should give up on the computer science class he is re-taking? He loves computer science and really wants to take it. But the prof has straight out told him that half the students flunk his classes. He says his plan is to start the semester, see what the classes are like, and drop what is the hardest. I am using rate my professor to see what others have to say about these professors. I am not sure what to do! I feel like I give advice, but what if I am wrong? He is out with his dad now so hopefully, someone can give good advice that I can pass on to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 At the schools our dc attend, to get a refund for a class, it has to be dropped in the first week or two. Not really enough time for him to see if he's going to be ok grade wise. So if there is any hope of getting any money back, I'd withdraw ASAP. I'd never encourage a kid who is struggling academically to take on an 18 credit hour load. He needs to back up to just regular full time status and master that workload. Retaking the class he failed is probably a good idea because that material is still kind of fresh. Maybe Japanese if he'll need foreign language credits because he's more likely to forget material if he waits until fall to take it. Don't bother w the 2 credit hour computer science class right now because if he can't handle this term he likely will change majors and perhaps won't need that class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Why on Earth did he sign up for 18 hours??? And why did his advisor sign off on this, considering his poor performance in the previous semester? If a student with poor grades showed me his schedule during advising, I would strongly discourage him from taking more than, say 14 hours, possibly even only the 12 necessary for full time student status. If you want a refund, he would have to drop the course within the first week - not enough time to see how hard it is going to be. Keep in mind the deadline by which dropped courses do not show on the transcript; at our school, that is around the 6 week mark. As for which courses to drop, I would let the student make the call, since he needs to be engaged in his classwork. he should retake the course he failed NOW, because he may still remember at least some of the material. But I would not discourage him from taking a course in a subject he loves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Do you know that you know their complete policy on refunds and drops? If not, look online in the college's catalog. Ours will not refund full tuition once the classes are started. After a certain date (census date), all dropped classes show on the transcript. After another date, they are Withdraw - Passing or Withdraw - Failing. And then at a final point you cannot drop, you can only get your earned grade. Further, our state only allows 6 dropped classes in total for one's entire state schools college career. (I don't remember what happens after that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Agreeing with previous posters. How many hours must he take to be "in good standing" during this probationary semester? The minimum number required seems best. Reviews from those "rate a professor" websites are so skewed as to be nearly meaningless. Here's hoping that all goes well for bim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 12 credits is full time, so no refund for going from 18 to 12. I am just feeling that starting with so much, trying to put effort in to all 18 credits, and then dropping one or two only means he just let everything suffer until he drops something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 12 credits is full time, so no refund for going from 18 to 12. I am just feeling that starting with so much, trying to put effort in to all 18 credits, and then dropping one or two only means he just let everything suffer until he drops something. I completely agree. A struggling student should not be attempting 18 hours, period. What kind of advising system do they have on place that they even ALLOW him to sign up for so many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Why on Earth did he sign up for 18 hours??? And why did his advisor sign off on this, considering his poor performance in the previous semester? If a student with poor grades showed me his schedule during advising, I would strongly discourage him from taking more than, say 14 hours, possibly even only the 12 necessary for full time student status. :iagree: Honestly, it doesn't sound like he's being advised well at this school. I would drop for the refund whatever makes sense. And then I'd be checking in with this kid several times a week and make sure he is taking advantage of any helpful resources he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 I completely agree. A struggling student should not be attempting 18 hours, period. What kind of advising system do they have on place that they even ALLOW him to sign up for so many? He has a mentor. I am unsure how much use my son is making of things. I do have a regret. I love my son and he is great and sweet and wonderful. But now in hind site, I realize that perhaps heading straight off to 4 yr college away from home was not the best idea. His mentor is a well liked person. But I am not sure how much use of him my son has taken, or how much interest the mentor has taken in my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 So, setting aside the emotion on this and the consternation that he was allowed to sign up for that many classes, where are you now? 1) You need to know the facts re. the school's policies: what are the waypoints on the academic calendar for drops and how they are listed on the transcript. You, the parent, must KNOW these things. Don't count on his word or his understanding. The online catalog is your best friend, and trumps anything an advisor has told him. (We know this from sad experience.) 2) Once you know this and can lay out the facts before him and your husband, you can talk with him. He has said he intends to drop, he just wants to check the look and feel of the classes. I don't find that unreasonable if he really means it and if there isn't a high cost for the opportunity in homework for the extra classes. Can you all talk and help him set a specific timetable for the drops and a contract for "if-thens?" 3) As a family we've found it very useful to lay out spreadsheets for cost projections, GPAs, anything quantifiable. It helps decision-making tremendously. (Not that we still haven't had some oops moments...) He needs to know that the stakes are too high and the gamble is not in his favor should he not be serious about dropping some of those hours. He cannot afford to not get that FinAid reinstated! You have my empathy, Elisabet -- right there with ya with college age younglings. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 OP: I remember a previous thread about your DS. I believe he is in way over his head and that not only your money is going down the drain, but, more importantly, his self esteem is taking a horrible beating. I believe the best thing you can do to help him would be to pay for some serious and thorough career counseling for him, ASAP. They may offer that in a large university near to your home. Possibly he could cope with 12 credits and complete the courses successfully, but more than that, including 2 CS courses, is probably more than he can be successful with. GL to you and to your DS! ETA: If they use grading rubrics that is probably a good thing for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Don't assume that an art class will be an easy A. And I agree with others that it is too much for a struggling student. What is the reason he did so poorly before? Didn't attend classes? Didn't study between classes (3 hours for every hour spent in class)? I'd make sure to address & correct the reasons for his past failure. Would he be willing to move home and go to community college for a while? If you are paying anyway, having him at home where you can have more supervision and give more support might be worthwhile. And the credits might cost less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Don't assume that an art class will be an easy A. And I agree with others that it is too much for a struggling student. What is the reason he did so poorly before? Didn't attend classes? Didn't study between classes (3 hours for every hour spent in class)? I'd make sure to address & correct the reasons for his past failure. Would he be willing to move home and go to community college for a while? If you are paying anyway, having him at home where you can have more supervision and give more support might be worthwhile. And the credits might cost less. :iagree: I've spent six years total in college, and the low-level art class I took was one of the hardest classes I had during that whole six years. It is HARD to crank out art projects on a regular basis when you're tired from so much studying. And inevitably, at least part of your grade is dependent on your level of talent. OP, from what I remember from your previous posts, your son's issue seems to be more a lack of self-discipline than anything else. He should probably just wait until he has a syllabus from each class and pick those classes with the lightest workload. Don't go by reviews about whether or not a professor is a hard grader, because a lot of those come from kids fresh out of high school who expect to get easy As in everything and blame the professors when they actually have to put in a little work here and there. I would really encourage your son to take some time off from college, though. It seems pretty obvious that he's not ready, and he'll get so much more out of it when he's ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 :iagree: I've spent six years total in college, and the low-level art class I took was one of the hardest classes I had during that whole six years. It is HARD to crank out art projects on a regular basis when you're tired from so much studying. And inevitably, at least part of your grade is dependent on your level of talent. OP, from what I remember from your previous posts, your son's issue seems to be more a lack of self-discipline than anything else. He should probably just wait until he has a syllabus from each class and pick those classes with the lightest workload. Don't go by reviews about whether or not a professor is a hard grader, because a lot of those come from kids fresh out of high school who expect to get easy As in everything and blame the professors when they actually have to put in a little work here and there. I would really encourage your son to take some time off from college, though. It seems pretty obvious that he's not ready, and he'll get so much more out of it when he's ready. I think he would have been more willing to take the time off if he had not already been in the dorm and had a job and everything else. Since the new semester starts tomorrow, I realize maybe I should have, I don't know. I just feel like I am struggling on this topic. I feel like I am in all new territory and am unsure what I am doing here. His best grades came his first semester! And they have been going downhill ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think he would have been more willing to take the time off if he had not already been in the dorm and had a job and everything else. Since the new semester starts tomorrow, I realize maybe I should have, I don't know. I just feel like I am struggling on this topic. I feel like I am in all new territory and am unsure what I am doing here. His best grades came his first semester! And they have been going downhill ever since. Have you had a discussion with him about his work ethic? From what you wrote in another post, when you shared the prof's email, he did not attend all classes and did not submit all assignments. Until he is willing to change that, his grades won't improve, and dropping some courses is not going to help the underlying issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think he would have been more willing to take the time off if he had not already been in the dorm and had a job and everything else. Since the new semester starts tomorrow, I realize maybe I should have, I don't know. I just feel like I am struggling on this topic. I feel like I am in all new territory and am unsure what I am doing here. His best grades came his first semester! And they have been going downhill ever since. That was sort of what happened to me my first semester in college. I went to a little community college immediately after high school because I had a full scholarship, and I didn't do well. I had the intelligence, but not the maturity or self-discipline. I was burned out on school and needed a break, even though I didn't consciously realize that at the time, and I needed to grow up a bit. I left after that first semester and spent some time working, went into the Army for a while, and after all that when I went back to college at the University of MN Duluth, I did so much better. I knew what I wanted from school and had the maturity to put in the effort required to get it. If I had stayed at that first school, it would have been completely wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Have you had a discussion with him about his work ethic? From what you wrote in another post, when you shared the prof's email, he did not attend all classes and did not submit all assignments. Until he is willing to change that, his grades won't improve, and dropping a few select classes is not going to help the underlying issue. I keep talking to him about it. I had him watch the Superstar Student from Teaching Company. We got him set up with the study skills center. He is supposed to go there every day for s study session. However, when he showed me that one email, I noticed other emails asking him why he did not show that day. In the last couple visits with the doctor where he gets ADHD meds, I have felt disappointed. The doctor was very focused on his vaccinations last time rather than the actual adhd meds. He kept pushing the flu vaccination even though it was already January and my son got horribly sick from the flu shot the last time he had it. And then he barely touched on the adhd meds. The visit before, my son admitted to not sleeping at night, but then being tired during the day, so the doctor upped the adhd med dose! I never thought a good doctor would raise the dose for the purpose of helping a person stay awake. My son has actually been seeing the PA so next time, I am going to have him see the actual doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 He could check and see if the syllabi are online, either from the professor's page or if they have a common drive for students to access such materials. When in doubt, he could google the school and class name. I often try to find the syllabus online before I sign up for the class, so I have an idea of what to expect from each professor. Just another note: As an adult college student, I've been taking 12 hours a semester. With other life responsibilities 4 classes is about what I can handle. My son will start in the fall and that's about where I'm going to suggest he start as well as he'll need to solidify college study habits before he adds more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I almost always signed up for more with the intent to drop. When I went full time I paid one rate and there was a number of courses included in that one rate. So if I took 12 credits to 18 credits it was the same price. Classes filled up fast so if you are in a position of getting first dibs you choose more than you plan to take because it's easier to drop within the first couple of weeks than it is to add. Dropping within a couple of weeks does not show up on your transcript, does not affect financial aid as long as you are still within the full time range, and it does not affect what you pay if your college operates the way I describe here. I did it because I needed to get a feel for the work load, instructor, or topics covered. I worked full time. Being real I could not handle 5 classes with insane work loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I always have my kids sign up for one more course than they are required to take. The terms of the scholarship require a load of 15 hours each semester. You can apply for a variance and my middle did that her first semester. There is usually one class that has a teacher that is not like what was described on ratemyprofessor or has a workload that is too heavy or just isn't what you thought it was. My kids always drop that one class at the end of the first week. As long as you drop by the census day, it won't show up on the transcript at all and won't count towards the 6 dropped classes limit. This semester my 19yo is taking all the classes she signed up for for the very first time. She did have to shift it a little because the 3 credit honors course that signed up for didn't have enough students to make and she had to sign up for a 1 credit honors course instead. She originally signed up for 18 hours and now has just 16 hours. Signing up for one more class than is necessary with the intention of dropping one has worked out well for my kids. The class that my kids have dropped has never been the one they thought it would be. Their school actually kind of encourages doing this for one class. They said in orientation that they considered the first week of any semester to be the trial period where you could drop and add freely. Your son should definitely drop at least one class. Eighteen hours is way too much for a struggling student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Art is hard, don't do that!! DD is an art major, and the classes are double time, along with very time intensive projects. Those would be even more difficult without a lot of art talent. I used to hard line not dropping classes, but have changed my tune after ds was in the wrong major and literally drowned in studies his freshman year. It would have been so much better to drop that calculus class he failed anyway.... and then had to go to two summer school classes to salvage his scholarship. It would have saved his GPA taking a huge hit to drop the class, then still do the other class(es) in summer school. Dd was minoring in Spanish this year, along with an art major. She was drowning in schoolwork. Upper level Spanish was the culprit. She had that panicked look, asked what I thought, I said "drop it, we don't need a repeat semester of too much work and no sleep." She will have to take a summer school class to keep the required number of credits for her scholarship, but at least the load is better. At 12 credit hours, she is still pulling some all nighters, but at least not regularly. So, I would get your ds to accurately access where he is at, and if it is determined he took on too much, then drop the class that is causing the most grief. Honestly, his academic success would rank over losing some tuition money. Don't be afraid of summer school, it is a lifesaver to get credit counts down during the fall and spring semesters. It is not a crime to not be able to do more than 12 credit hours at a time. A lot of students can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I understand you are paying, but he's 20. At some point, he has to make his life happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 If he's starting his 4th semester, and earned a C, two D's and an F in his major, here are things I'd want to know: o) Assuming he sticks with his major, often introductory courses are prerequisites for later classes, and prereqs often must be passed with a C or better. Does he have to re-take all three classes he got D's and Fs in, in order to make progress in his major? Often, at small schools, these are offered only once a year. If so, how many years is he going to take to graduate? He should have a tentative schedule for all the classes he is going to take from now to graduation -- what does that look like, and how long is it going to take? Is this matched up to the actual schedule of when classes are offered? Taking five or six years to graduate is going to be much more expensive that just missing one semester of scholarship. Even if he does graduate in five or six years, unless he turns it around, and gets A's in his upper division classes, it may be hard to find a job with such a low GPA, even in a good field like computer science. o) If he does switch majors, can he finish in four years total, or is that also putting him on the five/six year plan? o) If he's getting such low grades that he is now failing to make satisfactory academic progress for scholarships, is he also on academic probation? If so, is he also flirting with academic suspension? No matter how many classes he takes this semester, what grade does he need in each of them to get off of academic probation, and not get kicked out of school? o) Why is this an issue now? If he was getting poor grades in his first year, I'd want to put in corrective action plan immediately. It is his responsibility to get good advising. If he doesn't like his adviser, I'm sure he can switch, but he needs to take responsibility for this, and go to his adviser, and listen to what he or she has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 In the last couple visits with the doctor where he gets ADHD meds, I have felt disappointed. The doctor was very focused on his vaccinations last time rather than the actual adhd meds. He kept pushing the flu vaccination even though it was already January and my son got horribly sick from the flu shot the last time he had it. And then he barely touched on the adhd meds. The visit before, my son admitted to not sleeping at night, but then being tired during the day, so the doctor upped the adhd med dose! I never thought a good doctor would raise the dose for the purpose of helping a person stay awake. My son has actually been seeing the PA so next time, I am going to have him see the actual doctor. With his multiple issues, have you tried a psychiatrist? This is likely beyond the scope of a general practice PA or MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Is it possible his advisor is trying to drown him in classes? I had a horrible advisor my freshman year in college. It was very clear he did not like me during an initial meeting with me and 3 other girls that were coming in as freshman. He made a very humiliating comment to me in front of everyone. After the meeting we met with him separately to discuss our first semester schedule. I remember him asking me if I was in the right major due to math grades. I told him I was willing to work hard to prove that I could do it. He loaded me down with 18 credit hours. I think it was Comp 1, Bio 202, Spanish 301, Spanish 302, Bio Lab, Calculus and a Genetics course. I freaked out! I knew I also had to work to help pay for room and board. I had no idea how I was going to accomplish it. I put too much faith in the advisor. Instead of just adjusting my schedule I quickly changed majors. I met 2 other people who had the same advisor, and he had done the same things to them. Just a thought. Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 With his multiple issues, have you tried a psychiatrist? This is likely beyond the scope of a general practice PA or MD. We have had good psychiatrists. But they keep dropping our insurance. Now we just cannot find any. The very very few that are on our insurance have long waiting lists and are a distance away. There is one in town. But he gets awful reviews. So I did not even want to mess with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Is it possible his advisor is trying to drown him in classes? I had a horrible advisor my freshman year in college. It was very clear he did not like me during an initial meeting with me and 3 other girls that were coming in as freshman. He made a very humiliating comment to me in front of everyone. After the meeting we met with him separately to discuss our first semester schedule. I remember him asking me if I was in the right major due to math grades. I told him I was willing to work hard to prove that I could do it. He loaded me down with 18 credit hours. I think it was Comp 1, Bio 202, Spanish 301, Spanish 302, Bio Lab, Calculus and a Genetics course. I freaked out! I knew I also had to work to help pay for room and board. I had no idea how I was going to accomplish it. I put too much faith in the advisor. Instead of just adjusting my schedule I quickly changed majors. I met 2 other people who had the same advisor, and he had done the same things to them. Just a thought. Kelly His advisor is a mentor, so not in the major. So he is not trying to squeeze my son out. I suspect he just signs off on registering and from what I can see, my son registers online after that and can put in whatever he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 If he's starting his 4th semester, and earned a C, two D's and an F in his major, here are things I'd want to know: o) Assuming he sticks with his major, often introductory courses are prerequisites for later classes, and prereqs often must be passed with a C or better. Does he have to re-take all three classes he got D's and Fs in, in order to make progress in his major? Often, at small schools, these are offered only once a year. If so, how many years is he going to take to graduate? He should have a tentative schedule for all the classes he is going to take from now to graduation -- what does that look like, and how long is it going to take? Is this matched up to the actual schedule of when classes are offered? Taking five or six years to graduate is going to be much more expensive that just missing one semester of scholarship. Even if he does graduate in five or six years, unless he turns it around, and gets A's in his upper division classes, it may be hard to find a job with such a low GPA, even in a good field like computer science. o) If he does switch majors, can he finish in four years total, or is that also putting him on the five/six year plan? o) If he's getting such low grades that he is now failing to make satisfactory academic progress for scholarships, is he also on academic probation? If so, is he also flirting with academic suspension? No matter how many classes he takes this semester, what grade does he need in each of them to get off of academic probation, and not get kicked out of school? o) Why is this an issue now? If he was getting poor grades in his first year, I'd want to put in corrective action plan immediately. It is his responsibility to get good advising. If he doesn't like his adviser, I'm sure he can switch, but he needs to take responsibility for this, and go to his adviser, and listen to what he or she has to say. His best semester was his first. Then it went downhill in the spring. The fall was his second chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 At a lot of schools, the student is free to ignore their advisor after the initial consultation and can add, drop, or whatever without their consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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