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There is a discussion going on today on the yahoo group hs2coll and I wanted to make sure that the information was relayed here as well.

 

A member posted today on the yahoo group that her highly qualified son was rejected from the U of Virginia.  The family did not award letter grades for the "homebrewed" classes, but the son did have letter grades ( a 4.0) from community college classes. 

 

The admissions officer at U of Virginia told the family when they called about the rejection that they "didn't have enough grades on the transcript."  Now the admissions officer did not directly state that was the reason for the rejection, but clearly he wondered why the homeschooled classes were simply listed as Pass/Fail.

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Yes, some colleges do not accept pass/fail, but want letter grades for inclusion in the GPA.

 

That's why you want to tailor each transcript you send out specifically for the school receiving it, so that it has everything they want on it, in a format that is easiest for them to find what they are looking for.

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Wow. I can understand P/F for very subjective courses, but it seems anyone could come up with letter grades for math and science.

 

I did put letter grades on my son's transcript, just because that is the custom in my state and therefore expected by the local universities to which he applied, but 100% of them were mommy grades so I wondered how much weight they'd carry. The grades did match his PSAT/SAT scores, which I'm guessing is the only reason grades would be considered in many homeschoolers' situations, anyway. In other words, if he'd had low-to-average SAT scores and a full slate of A plusses for his courses that would have surely caused some doubt.

 

 

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Yes, some colleges do not accept pass/fail, but want letter grades for inclusion in the GPA.

 

That's why you want to tailor each transcript you send out specifically for the school receiving it, so that it has everything they want on it, in a format that is easiest for them to find what they are looking for.

 

I am not sure you can send out different transcripts if the colleges on your list all participate in the Common Application.  If I remember correctly, as the guidance counselor, I could only upload one transcript on the Common Application and that was sent out to all of the colleges.

 

Imo, the best way to address this issue is to assign letter grades.  Those adcoms who want to discount/ignore them can do so. 

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I am not sure you can send out different transcripts if the colleges on your list all participate in the Common Application.  If I remember correctly, as the guidance counselor, I could only upload one transcript on the Common Application and that was sent out to all of the colleges.

 

That's true. The best you can do is to look carefully at what the specific schools want that you are applying to via the Common App, and tailor as best you can to be inclusive of all the schools.

 

And definitely, assign letter grades. It's not that hard to do, especially if families have their students take an ACT or SAT test as a sort of overall "confirmation" of the family's homeschool grading. Or have the student take a few SAT Subject tests.

 

About 5-6 years ago on this Board, there were a number of folk who assigned no letter grades at all on the transcript -- every credit was just pass/fail. But things have changed, and to do that now is definitely "dancing on the edge" for admission to a lot of colleges. While I don't think most colleges mind seeing pass/fail for the PE credits, all academic subjects should have a grade assigned.

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Wow. I can understand P/F for very subjective courses, but it seems anyone could come up with letter grades for math and science.

 

I did put letter grades on my son's transcript, just because that is the custom in my state and therefore expected by the local universities to which he applied, but 100% of them were mommy grades so I wondered how much weight they'd carry. The grades did match his PSAT/SAT scores, which I'm guessing is the only reason grades would be considered in many homeschoolers' situations, anyway. In other words, if he'd had low-to-average SAT scores and a full slate of A plusses for his courses that would have surely caused some doubt.

The decision could have been more of a philosophical reason rather than the family not being able to come up with a way to assign letter grades. 

 

Originally, I was not going to assign letter grades to any of the subjects studied at home (which was the vast majority, including math and science) because I think letter grades are only useful for comparing students that attend the same high school, and I thought it was "silly" to assign a grade in a homeschooling setting.  After reading some threads on here and hs2coll last year, I changed my mind. 

 

Some colleges assign merit awards based ,not only on test scores, but also GPA.  Some will also assign a letter grade of C or D when no grade is listed on the transcript.

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The admissions officer at U of Virginia told the family when they called about the rejection that they "didn't have enough grades on the transcript."  Now the admissions officer did not directly state that was the reason for the rejection, but clearly he wondered why the homeschooled classes were simply listed as Pass/Fail.

 

I've chatted with one of the UVA recruiters, and they're fine with mommy grades (i.e. A, B, C, etc.) as long as they are consistent with other scores and outside grades.  I know of probably a dozen homeschooled kids who either went or are going to UVA, and there were no problems getting admitted.  All had parent-assigned grades, some more than others.

 

IMHO the problem was the pass/fail.  Most schools don't like that because they can't compare it to anything.

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The decision could have been more of a philosophical reason rather than the family not being able to come up with a way to assign letter grades. 

 

Originally, I was not going to assign letter grades to any of the subjects studied at home (which was the vast majority, including math and science) because I think letter grades are only useful for comparing students that attend the same high school, and I thought it was "silly" to assign a grade in a homeschooling setting.  After reading some threads on here and hs2coll last year, I changed my mind. 

 

Some colleges assign merit awards based ,not only on test scores, but also GPA.  Some will also assign a letter grade of C or D when no grade is listed on the transcript.

 

You know what, I totally forgot that I spent a year fretting about this very issue and thinking the same as you did. A quick search yields all my posts on it. LOL (Talk about brain fog!!)

 

My thinking back then was that it wasn't even fair to give grades to a homeschooler if he was held to the curricula's standard, across the board, and not allowed the public school fudging that is sometimes possible. I'm thinking of strategies such as grading on a curve, or allowing non-subjected-related work to count as extra credit to bring up the grade.

 

For example, I remember students in my algebra class receiving extra credit for silly stunts on the day of the big game -- the algebra teacher was the football coach -- or students in a science class being allowed to make a poster about some irrelevant school data to make up for bombing a quiz. If that's how some schools carry out their business, why should my son's B remain a B? Not fair.

 

I decided that my school is very rigorous and his competition would therefore be other students from truly rigorous schools. I wasn't going to fail to record what he truly did, for my own school's records and for honesty in feedback toward him; neither would I allow him to raise his grade by any means other than revisiting and actually mastering the material. This worked out fine for this particular student.

 

Anyway. Wonder what else I've forgotten lately. Raising teens is hard. LOL

 

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Yes. I sent her a private email early this morning telling her that i thought the grades were the issue. There is an individual who posts not to give grades. My research did not match that advice. I didnt weight grades but i thibk i will from now on.

 

Scholarships definitely play off gpa.

 

She is maddening.  Unfortunately, she worked in some capacity in an admissions office and reminds us all constantly of that fact. Despite the fact that she has ZERO experience with the realities of homeschooling, some on the list seem to view her as some kind of expert. 

 

I just hope the reason this particular family didn't issue grades was not because they were following this person's advice.

 

 

 

 

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I think it is very important for homeschoolers to give colleges what they are used to seeing.  Speak to them in their own language, and their language includes letter grades.

 

If the letter grades do not match test scores or grades from outside coursework, then that's a problem, but if they do, they should be listed--with confidence.

 

(I know a family who has a student who is top tier material.  Brilliant, with amazing coursework, test scores, outside grades, and extracurriculars.  The family decided not to give grades for the home based coursework.  The student applied to several top tier schools and didn't get in to a single one.  He is going to a state university (not top tier).  I don't know if grades would have helped, but I am sure that they wouldn't have hurt.)

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Yes. I sent her a private email early this morning telling her that i thought the grades were the issue. There is an individual who posts not to give grades. My research did not match that advice. I didnt weight grades but i thibk i will from now on.

 

Scholarships definitely play off gpa.

 

This is one of the issues I have followed on here and it seemed like the common advice was to not weight the grades, do you see that as changing?

 

We could use some of that weight about now.

 

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Finally not on my phone. :)

 

B/c many schools weight. It is worth giving both. Let the university decide what to do with the info. Some schools re-weight. Some don't. If you give both, it is there. If you don't and they accept weighted grades and don't re-weight, your student is a disadvantage. I am no longer convinced that there is a downside to weighing. Just include both.

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Finally not on my phone. :)

 

B/c many schools weight. It is worth giving both. Let the university decide what to do with the info. Some schools re-weight. Some don't. If you give both, it is there. If you don't and they accept weighted grades and don't re-weight, your student is a disadvantage. I am no longer convinced that there is a downside to weighing. Just include both.

 

Gladly :D

 

I had left mine unweighted as our ps with about 2800 students does not weight them.

 

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I've been working under the impression that the order of preference for homeschool grades is: university course for credit, CC/DE, high school courses taken at a b&m school, accredited online courses, unaccredited online courses, mommy grades, pass/fail, no grade.

 

Based on that assumption I plan on giving mommy grades for the high school courses.  If I don't weight them I will indicate on the transcript that all grades are unweighted.

 

I wouldn't omit grades or give only pass/fail for the courses I teach.  That, IMHO, would be like saying I hadn't bother to assess (in whatever manner I deemed appropriate) if my child/student had actually comprehended and completed the work.

 

I do think, based on what I've read and conversations with admissions departments, that most admissions professionals are quite familiar with homeschooling and "mommy grades" and will assess them as they are wont to do.  My assigning a grade assists them in there assessment, a pass/fail mark would be of no assistance at all.  However, I think you have to be realistic about having grades and test scores match.  There are plenty of students who are not good standardized test takers who do well in a class.  It is possible to have a good grade and an AP or SAT subject score that seem low.  If you have a student that doesn't test well I think it would be worth commenting on that fact in your counselor letter if you feel the need.  I'd hate to low ball my kids' grades because they did better in class than on a test.

 

 

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Finally not on my phone. :)

 

B/c many schools weight. It is worth giving both. Let the university decide what to do with the info. Some schools re-weight. Some don't. If you give both, it is there. If you don't and they accept weighted grades and don't re-weight, your student is a disadvantage. I am no longer convinced that there is a downside to weighing. Just include both.

How would this look on a transcript? I'm trying to picture it and can't.

 

We've always included a transcript key and a statement that grades are unweighted. Would this not serve the same purpose? Looks like I may need to take another look at how we do things here.

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I can't get my head around this.  Can't you just give all A's?  It means nothing.  And how would you give a grade for something like AoPS olympiad geometry?  25 hours per week and my ds can still get only half on his own, the other half he gets help with, so it is not even all his work.  Personally, I would give him an A+ with honors.  And then my ds's history class is just listening, watching movies, discussing.  Well, I'll give him an A for that too.  He is doing the work;  there is just not much work.  Wouldn't give him honors though.  I got all As in high school, but seems like if I gave my ds all A's it would look like padding. 

 

The whole thing is just odd.

 

Ruth in NZ

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I can't get my head around this. Can't you just give all A's? It means nothing. And how would you give a grade for something like AoPS olympiad geometry? 25 hours per week and my ds can still get only half on his own, the other half he gets help with, so it is not even all his work. Personally, I would give him an A+ with honors. And then my ds's history class is just listening, watching movies, discussing. Well, I'll give him an A for that too. He is doing the work; there is just not much work. Wouldn't give him honors though. I got all As in high school, but seems like if I gave my ds all A's it would look like padding.

 

The whole thing is just odd.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I could have given my son all As, but he didn't earn all As and his transcript reflects that. I purposely chose set grading criteria for each class up front to help alleviate the mommy bias.

 

I'm not a huge fan of grades, Ds is not motivated by them in the least, but his GPA earned his a decent scholarship. Not every student is an A student, to present him as such would have been dishonest to me.

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I can't wrap my head around this. I think the term "mommy grades" started as a term that non-homeschoolers use about homeschoolers' grades. Is it "mommy school". Followed by "mommy high school"? We work hard, do our research and tailor curricula to our children. Why would WE ever call them "mommy grades". I know OP was just using this tongue in cheek, but I see many many referring to their own grades as such online and in-person and find it maddening.

 

We can teach , and we can grade. Our grades count. I have never understood why parents would choose not to grade. I do think it is important to explain how grades are achieved in the school profile. Feel sort of angry on behalf of this family and sad for their rejection. Sorry for the soapbox rant.

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I can't get my head around this.  Can't you just give all A's?  It means nothing.  And how would you give a grade for something like AoPS olympiad geometry?  25 hours per week and my ds can still get only half on his own, the other half he gets help with, so it is not even all his work.  Personally, I would give him an A+ with honors.  And then my ds's history class is just listening, watching movies, discussing.  Well, I'll give him an A for that too.  He is doing the work;  there is just not much work.  Wouldn't give him honors though.  I got all As in high school, but seems like if I gave my ds all A's it would look like padding. 

 

The whole thing is just odd.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

We gave our kids all As because we made them do things over until they were right.  But we also had SAT subject tests and APs in almost every subject to back up our grades.

 

We didn't weight their grades because we heard that colleges just compute their own unweighted GPA anyway.  I don't know if that's true, but it's what I would do.  Otherwise, how on earth would you compare?  We did mark classes that required extra work as "Honors" on the transcript.

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How would this look on a transcript? I'm trying to picture it and can't.

 

We've always included a transcript key and a statement that grades are unweighted. Would this not serve the same purpose? Looks like I may need to take another look at how we do things here.

For example, our ds had more honors, AP, and post AP college credits than typical high school classes. (We used almost all college level materials.) His transcript gave his GPA as a 4.0. But, that means his diffEQ and modern physics classes received the same weight as the local high school's alg 1 and LESS weight than their honors alg 1.

 

I haven't thought about how I am going to weight. I have a couple of yrs before I need to make that decision. ;)

 

Fwiw, it didn't hurt our ds in hindsight b/c he is attending college on full scholarship, but there is one university that I do now wonder if we had address things differently if they would have offered him more scholarship $$.

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With regard to weighting grades, it is a good idea to check with the college. I hadn't planned on weighting as I had widely read that colleges don't want them and just un-weight them . In two information sessions at the two flagship large universites in Texas, both wanted weighted grades . If we had submitted unweighted, DS would have been at a disadvantage.

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I can't wrap my head around this. I think the term "mommy grades" started as a term that non-homeschoolers use about homeschoolers' grades. Is it "mommy school". Followed by "mommy high school"? We work hard, do our research and tailor curricula to our children. Why would WE ever call them "mommy grades". I know OP was just using this tongue in cheek, but I see many many referring to their own grades as such online and in-person and find it maddening.

 

We can teach , and we can grade. Our grades count. I have never understood why parents would choose not to grade. I do think it is important to explain how grades are achieved in the school profile. Feel sort of angry on behalf of this family and sad for their rejection. Sorry for the soapbox rant.

 

I am sorry if I offended anyone by using that term.  I was using the term more as a response to the attitude that somehow grades issued by us are not deemed worthy enough to put on the transcript.  That has been the constant mantra of a certain poster on the other list.

 

Here is her blog post on the subject matter.  I am sure that there are other individuals in other admissions office that have the same mindset.  (She has recently updated her #1 comment.  She used to be much more absolute in her responses.) 

 

http://www.gettheetocollege.com/p/five-things-every-homeschooler.html

 

I am posting this link only because I think it is beneficial to understand the mindset of some people in admissions offices so we can address some of their concerns in our school profiles. 

 

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I can't get my head around this.  Can't you just give all A's?  It means nothing.  And how would you give a grade for something like AoPS olympiad geometry?  25 hours per week and my ds can still get only half on his own, the other half he gets help with, so it is not even all his work.  Personally, I would give him an A+ with honors.  And then my ds's history class is just listening, watching movies, discussing.  Well, I'll give him an A for that too.  He is doing the work;  there is just not much work.  Wouldn't give him honors though.  I got all As in high school, but seems like if I gave my ds all A's it would look like padding. 

 

The whole thing is just odd.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Ruth, as you know we are nowhere near high school yet, but I'd like to toss out ideas around this.  FWIW, until this very thread I was leaning strongly toward no grades b/c one of the colleges I attended (New College in Florida, an honors college for the state system) gave no grades ... if one of my children does a subject, then they will have done it to a high standard.   I completely agree that it is odd. 

 

However, for some of us it looks like it will be necessary. 

 

RE the maths, I am recalling the Singapore system in which (I gather) it wouldn't be unusual for a child in secondary school who earns an A to be able to solve only 60% or so of problems presented.  Richard at AoPS might be able to offer advice for grading, but it seems to me that if your are listing this as a high school geometry course than the standards for that apply and the child clearly is earning an A.  It probably would be better to list at as honors, given the content, and there are syllabi for honors geometry that one could look at for a general idea of the standard of mastery.

 

I don't know about the history.  Perhaps one could reflect the nature of that course in the title?  Partly for this reason we are planning on having writing components of history all the way through, though I am certainly not saying you ought to do this with your ds -- the plan you have for him seems excellent both for his particular self and for navigating the uni system you plan to apply for. 

 

For English, and papers in general, there are a variety of solutions but I must say I like the grading section in Michael Clay Thompson's "Classics in the Classroom".  Here's a key bit:

"If, in addition to good English, a paper also has a good essay structure, with a single thesis, a real introduction, an organized body developing the thesis, and a conclusion that pulls the paper together, then I begin to consider a grade of C or B.  To qualify for an A, a paper must have an accomplishment in the realm of ideas.  A paper in good English, written in correct MLA style, with an excellent essay structure, a cogent display of research, and an acceptably scholarly topic might receive a grade of 93 to 95.  I reserve the last five points as rewards for really wonderful papers; from 95 on, the points are tough to get."

 

It does seem to me that a homeschooling parent could do this level of grading.  Again, I do not see the grades as ideal and am not offering that MCT quote as the ideal way to grade papers -- just as a thought for beginning to approach the problem.  But grading may be necessary, and if it is, there may be some sane approaches to it.  

 

ETA: I don't think it would look like you were padding your child's transcript, given his outside-the-home math work and the writing samples he would submit. 

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Here is her blog post on the subject matter.  I am sure that there are other individuals in other admissions office that have the same mindset.  (She has recently updated her #1 comment.  She used to be much more absolute in her responses.) 

 

http://www.gettheetocollege.com/p/five-things-every-homeschooler.html

 

 

Thanks for posting that; she certainly does have some helpful things to offer. :) But her view is definitely limited to just 3 years as Asst. Admissions Director at a selective school, specializing in on-campus interviews (details from her Linked In profile). Short time of experience. One school. One policy. Not to mention, it's a job she is no longer doing (she's been a middle school teacher for the past 2 years). And as a side note: Regentrude's homeschooled DD was admitted to that SAME selective school on scholarship, and Regentrude DID include grades on the transcript sent to that very school. Clearly, that selective school has changed it's policy on transcripts with grades from homeschoolers.  ;)

 

To me, this highlights the importance of understanding the background/experience of those from whom we take advice. And to make sure we're doing all the research and talking to many people -- not basing decisions on one piece of advice from one person.

 

Just me, but in a case like this, I personally would be talking to local homeschoolers who had applied and successfully been admitted to colleges to find out what their process and records looked like. I'd be asking people on this board for their experiences in applying to the specific colleges my student wanted to apply to, so as to get a feel for timing, process, records, and what to emphasize in experiences for the essays. And I'd personally contacting the specific college admissions offices to understand exactly what THEY wanted.

 

I *sincerely* hope NO one makes a transcript or college decision solely on ONE thing *I* said in a post on this board! ;) Warmest regards, Lori D.

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She is maddening.  Unfortunately, she worked in some capacity in an admissions office and reminds us all constantly of that fact. Despite the fact that she has ZERO experience with the realities of homeschooling, some on the list seem to view her as some kind of expert. 

 

I just hope the reason this particular family didn't issue grades was not because they were following this person's advice.

 

There are several people who have the no grades from the family mantra.  Maybe we aren't visiting colleges that are at the tippy top level (actually I know we're not), but I've asked admissions officers and so far, no one had told me not to include grades simply because the course was done at home.  [sometimes I wonder what we homeschoolers think homeschooling is.  It doesn't have to be a full schedule of outsourced classes.   :confused1: ]

 

I've had one admissions officer (the person who reads all homeschoolers' applications for that school) recommend that we weight any college or AP courses.  Another admissions officer (again, also the person who read homeschooler applications) said that while they put gpa on their website and info briefs, it's only because they are required to.  She said that the weighting systems and grades vary too much by district and state for gpa to make much sense anyway.

 

I figure that a school can always unweight.  They can always ignore grades from homeschooled work.  I think that many only look at grades from core courses anyway.  What none of them can do is assign a grade if there isn't one there to begin with.

 

Does that mean that some admissions officer somewhere will roll their eyes at my kids' applications.  Quite possibly.  But then I roll my eyes at things done on college campuses all the time, so I guess we are even.

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There is a discussion going on today on the yahoo group hs2coll and I wanted to make sure that the information was relayed here as well.

 

A member posted today on the yahoo group that her highly qualified son was rejected from the U of Virginia.  The family did not award letter grades for the "homebrewed" classes, but the son did have letter grades ( a 4.0) from community college classes. 

 

The admissions officer at U of Virginia told the family when they called about the rejection that they "didn't have enough grades on the transcript."  Now the admissions officer did not directly state that was the reason for the rejection, but clearly he wondered why the homeschooled classes were simply listed as Pass/Fail.

I didn't see that one, but pass-fail for many classes seems like a really bad idea. 

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I agree-the term "mommy grades" is awful.  It works on the assumption that homeschooling parents are push overs who are incapable of and unwilling to fairly assess their children's progress.

 

I think there are plenty of home schooling parents who do a very fair and rational job providing grades.  I think that many just assume that mom would always give an A to her little darling. 

 

So-I give my high school students grades.  Sometimes grades they don't like.  They will be on their transcript. 

 

So...if anyone finds one of those sweet, kind, mommy grading moms--my kids would appreciate your arranging a meet up so she can explain to me how that works... :001_smile:

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That is quite the blog post :-/  I'm surprised anyone listens to her (inexperienced, and quite young!)

 

What I took from my oldest's college app experience (and she was not exclusively homeschooled, but did have an unusual course that included independent homeschool, homeschool via a charter, public school, a foreign exchange year, and a dual enrollment year at a private college) is that colleges seem to like to compare apples to apples.  I got a little creative with some of the course names, and I think that was a bit confusing, and probably looked flaky.

 

I see no reason to avoid giving grades; the college is always free to disregard the grades, I suppose.  It's probably wise to have test scores, or a few dual enrollment (or other types of classes graded by an outside source) to serve as a source of validation for the grades given at home (though I don't think that's completely necessary...just may ease the way.)

 

I suppose there is nothing to stop a homeschool parent from giving undeserved "A"s, but that certainly would not serve the student well in the end.  I suspect it's a rare occurrence.  On the other hand, I am pretty casual in my approach to grading.  Subjects are approached with mastery as the goal, so an "A" makes sense when all is said and done.  I definitely don't do the 30%quizzes/30%tests/30%homework/10%whatever.  My kids are well prepared for academics outside the home, regardless.

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Threads like that one on HS2College make me want to curl up in a ball and cry...My kid is above average, but certainly not over-the-moon awesome.  We're limited by money, location, time, and did I mention money?  I feel like we're doing the best we can given our circumstances, but the more I read and hear, the more unsure I get.  Taking these tests out of the country is expensive, and we're even more limited to when we can take them.  APs, DE...all very expensive...tutors...I just don't know how my kid is going to get into college.

 

Money has me really depressed right now, I've been working on budgets -- and if we go home, there is really no money for any dual enrollment or extra-curricular activities beyond scouts -- assuming we want to live in a house and eat.  

 

Back on topic, I assign grades.  I weight grades.  I use what the public school back home does as a guides (since we'll be compared to other students from Stafford County, not the DoD's school here)..  I figured if they don't like them, they can ignore them.  I also write course syllabus, explaining how I grade and what the course covers/includes, course descriptions (short), and grades for assignments/projects.  I'll keep copies of their written essays/papers as well, and mid-term & finals for math/science classes, lab reports, etc.  When I'm done, each kid will have a pretty thorough portfolio of work -- and I should be able to create any number of required transcripts from that. It's exhausting, by the way.

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Threads like that one on HS2College make me want to curl up in a ball and cry...My kid is above average, but certainly not over-the-moon awesome. We're limited by money, location, time, and did I mention money? I feel like we're doing the best we can given our circumstances, but the more I read and hear, the more unsure I get. Taking these tests out of the country is expensive, and we're even more limited to when we can take them. APs, DE...all very expensive...tutors...I just don't know how my kid is going to get into college.

 

Money has me really depressed right now, I've been working on budgets -- and if we go home, there is really no money for any dual enrollment or extra-curricular activities beyond scouts -- assuming we want to live in a house and eat.

 

Back on topic, I assign grades. I weight grades. I use what the public school back home does as a guides (since we'll be compared to other students from Stafford County, not the DoD's school here).. I figured if they don't like them, they can ignore them. I also write course syllabus, explaining how I grade and what the course covers/includes, course descriptions (short), and grades for assignments/projects. I'll keep copies of their written essays/papers as well, and mid-term & finals for math/science classes, lab reports, etc. When I'm done, each kid will have a pretty thorough portfolio of work -- and I should be able to create any number of required transcripts from that. It's exhausting, by the way.

Lisa,

 

The current conversations on that loop really demonstrate why you need to filter all information through the prism of your own family's priorities and guide your child accordingly. The suggestion that a good strategy is to apply to only 4 extremely selective schools and if not accepted, take a gap yr and reapply to extremely selective schools is advice that filters through my prism and directly out the window. Why? b/c I believe 100s of universities in this country provide the opportunity to be well=educated and pursue goals, not just 10 or 20 schools out of thousands. People with that POV take my POV and filter it through their prism and direct it right into the trash can. ;) I think the idea that you have to have transcripts and experiences that only exist for the top .01% of breathing beings is equally absurd. While those goals are fine for those who want to pursue them, that sort of path should not be considered normal for the avg student or necessary for even those that are far outside the norm. Very ordinary kids with very ordinary transcripts/backgrounds succeed and SHINE as adults. Seriously. (And our non-ordinary kids can shine on very ordinary paths as well!!)

 

Just to encourage you, not one of my children has ever taken out a student loan. Not one of them has gone to a selective school (or an even slightly selective school.) All of them have gone a very affordable route. And all of my career bound children have shone brilliantly within their typical/avg college environment. And, my 2 that have graduated and have jobs are doing incredibly well for themselves.

 

FWIW, getting into an avg university is not at all difficult. If you eliminate the top schools and apply to avg U, admission and scholarship $$ for very avg kids is possible. Only our current college freshman had an application that looked like some of those being discussed on that loop. We couldn't and can't afford tuition/room/board/books/transportation costs for top schools (even though top schools believe we can!) Guess what---at his far below top 50 school, he is surrounded by top students in their honors program;he has professors who have become mentors; as a freshman, a professor has him training with a sr so he can take over his research role; he will be able to take grad level classes as a sophomore. It is all working out and he is very happy. And we didn't add extreme financial stress to our lives.

 

My older 2 took very avg high school loads (between 21-24 credits) and solidly high school/a handful of college level classes. Both went to school via very affordable routes and have great careers with great incomes. (If drama didn't sell news, there could be 1000s of articles about students who did NOT take student loans and went to inexpensive, lower ranked schools and now are solidly employed in their field. :) Far cry from huge debt and unemployed/underemployed. But that story isn't "news worthy." )

 

Don't fall prey to the notion that their futures depend on a very tunnel visioned path. Strong work ethic built upon a solid academic base will serve them well. Motivated students succeed b/c they work hard and are motivated.

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Don't fall prey to the notion that their futures depend on a very tunnel visioned path. Strong work ethic built upon a solid academic base will serve them well. Motivated students succeed b/c they work hard and are motivated.

 

:iagree:  

 

Also, don't fall prey to the "dream college".  Instead our kids should have a dream that is not dependent on which college they attend.

 

Also, don't fall prey to the belief that the lottery schools have a monopoly on the "smart" kids.  Read the book, The Price of Admissions for a glimpse of what goes on behind the closed doors of an admissions office.  (Having been privy to admissions from a recruited athlete perspective, the authors comments in that book are spot on.)

 

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In regard to "mommy grades". Sorry OP. I wanted to make sure you saw that I knew you were using the term tongue in cheek. I shouldn't have even brought it up...just feeling soapboxy . Anyway people are free to use whatever term they want, I'm being bossy. Thanks for bringing all of this up. It is really interesting.

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Sorry OP. I wanted to make sure you saw that I knew you were using the term tongue in cheek. I shouldn't have even brought it up...just feeling soapboxy . Anyway people are free to use whatever term they want, I'm being bossy.

 

No, you are not being bossy; you were right. I shouldn't have used that term even though I was using it tongue in cheek.

 

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Thanks for posting that; she certainly does have some helpful things to offer. :) But her view is definitely limited to just 3 years as Asst. Admissions Director at a selective school, specializing in on-campus interviews (details from her Linked In profile). Short time of experience. One school. One policy. Not to mention, it's a job she is no longer doing (she's been a middle school teacher for the past 2 years). And as a side note: Regentrude's homeschooled DD was admitted to that SAME selective school on scholarship, and Regentrude DID include grades on the transcript sent to that very school. Clearly, that selective school has changed it's policy on transcripts with grades from homeschoolers.  ;)

 

A more likely scenario is that this individual was not privy to the actual decision making process in the admissions office and that this school has not changed its policy at all. ;)

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A more likely scenario is that this individual was not privy to the actual decision making process in the admissions office and that this school has not changed its policy at all. ;)

 

I can not imagine it mattered much whether I included the mommy grades or not, as there was plenty of outside validation in the form of test scores and DE grades.

Let's be reasonable here: if a student gets a perfect on the literature subject SAT2, the college will have no problem accepting the mom-assigned A in English. Ditto for other subjects. If the outside test scores and DE grades paint the picture of a very strong student, it is reasonable for the college to accept high mom assigned grades for home taught courses. College admissions may be a very strange black box, but I would assume admissions officials have some common sense.

 

Now, I can see colleges questioning or disregarding mom assigned grades if there is an obvious discrepancy between high grades and poor test scores or poor DE grades, or if there is a lack of outside validation entirely.

 

I can not imagine any college penalizing a student for providing parent assigned grades in addition to outside evaluations - that makes absolutely no sense. OTOH, I know that some schools specifically require homeschoolers to submit a transcript with grades for ALL courses.

 

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Just in case there was any question about the grades I assigned in my son's home-based classes, I put the following clarification in my school profile:

 

All home-based courses were taught to mastery, meaning that assessment was done only after Student had mastered the material through discussion and practice. Because meeting expectations was not optional—and expectations were to produce excellent quality work—Student's grades in his home-based courses are uniformly high.

 

His ACT scores reflect the As I gave him, and the grades in his outside courses were mostly As, with some Bs, and one C+.

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I personally know of several test-disconnect ps high school students. That is high grades and very average test scores. I don't know what admission officers do then. I do feel that if you have solid course descriptions and a good explanation of how you grade, give then the grade they earned. You don't need to have perfect SAT 2 scores (obviously nice if you do) to have an A in that subject. And for that A to be well-earned.

 

Otherwise, we should all just submit test scores and why bother with a transcript at all. Just kidding. A little.

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I personally know of several test-disconnect ps high school students. That is high grades and very average test scores. I don't know what admission officers do then. I do feel that if you have solid course descriptions and a good explanation of how you grade, give then the grade they earned. You don't need to have perfect SAT 2 scores (obviously nice if you do) to have an A in that subject. And for that A to be well-earned.

 

Of course you are right - but I also think that admissions officials are probably not always well educated about homeschooling and may regard a discrepancy between parent assigned grades and test scores differently than they would regard a discrepancy between school assigned grades and test scores. So, while a grade from a public school is accepted as "valid", they may still suspect that grade from a parent is biased - even if that is completely unjustified.

I'd be happy to see proof to the contrary.

 

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Of course you are right - but I also think that admissions officials are probably not always well educated about homeschooling and may regard a discrepancy between parent assigned grades and test scores differently than they would regard a discrepancy between school assigned grades and test scores. So, while a grade from a public school is accepted as "valid", they may still suspect that grade from a parent is biased - even if that is completely unjustified.

I'd be happy to see proof to the contrary.

 

I think it's quite possible that colleges know that they have to take grades from certain schools with a grain of salt. That is the point of the school profiles. There used to be a database of US high schools with data on demographics, course offerings and percent of graduates attending 2 and 4 year colleges.

 

Of course that info is much less applicable to homeschoolers.

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We are quite a ways away from high school, but I am reading this thread with great interest.  I have always assumed that we would just grade pass/fail in high school, as I could not -- and in fact still cannot -- quite wrap my mind around idea that college admissions officers would pay any attention whatsoever to homeschool grades.  It just makes no sense to me at all.  

 

Course descriptions, work samples, and outside scores -- absolutely.   But grades for a class of one, with an individualized curriculum and taught to mastery?  I just find it genuinely baffling that colleges would even want these, let alone actually factor them into the decisionmaking process.  

 

That said, clearly I will need to stay informed about this issue, because my instincts are way off.  I have also made a note of this language, which I like a lot:

 

Just in case there was any question about the grades I assigned in my son's home-based classes, I put the following clarification in my school profile:

 

All home-based courses were taught to mastery, meaning that assessment was done only after Student had mastered the material through discussion and practice. Because meeting expectations was not optional—and expectations were to produce excellent quality work—Student's grades in his home-based courses are uniformly high.

 

His ACT scores reflect the As I gave him, and the grades in his outside courses were mostly As, with some Bs, and one C+.

 


 
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