Word Guessing in Reading

[TheAttachedMama]

Hi There,

 

I have an 8 year old who has a REALLY, REALLY bad word guessing habit.  He also skips and inserts words enough that it stands in the way of comprehension.  This habit is standing in the way of him progressing in reading.  He usually (most often) guesses based on the first letter of the word.  (example walked confused with wanted).   Sometimes he guesses based on the shape of the word (they confused with then).  And sometimes he guesses based on picture clues.  

 

If you had a child who did this, what helped?    I'm just looking for different perspectives and ideas.  :)

 

P.S.

(Right now, he is about on the "Frog and Toad" level of reading.)  

[OneStepAtATime]

Get an evaluation through a neuropsychologist.  These are classic signs of dyslexia.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

And maybe read some books like The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.

 

Also, How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl.

 

The Learning Abled website by Sandy Cook could help, too.

 

Also, skim this website (you don't have to buy her system).

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

You might also consider getting an eye exam through a developmental optometrist.  There are some vision issues that are not based on visual acuity and therefore may not show up in a standard eye exam.

[OneStepAtATime]

One more thing.  The sooner the better.  If he does have a learning issue/difference, the longer you wait for answers the more solidly his bad reading habits become ingrained and the further behind he will get.  Also, it could affect self-esteem and make it harder for him to want to learn.  The older a child gets, the more resistant they may be to going back to basics, too, which is frequently required.  The inefficient way of reading has to be unlearned and a better way put in place.   The older they are when they start the harder it can be to do so.  Plus, whatever the issue, an evaluation may also uncover amazing strengths that are not yet being tapped.  It could put your child on a much more productive path, not just in reading, but in life in general.

 

FWIW, this board is peppered with parents who waited to get solid answers from a professional and regret it.

 

Hugs and best wishes.  And cheers to you, Mom, for coming here to ask questions and seek answers.  I failed to do so in any meaningful way for way too long.

[Heathermomster]

Maybe check out this thread too..

[rachelpants]

I'm on my phone, so I'll be brief. You know that we struggle with this as well and I have a couple of therories.....

 

While I'm not sure "why" kids guess I think if they get in the habit, that it is *really* hard to break (you know this). My DS doesn't seem to care if he gets a word wrong (he told me thar he can always go back and fix it).

 

I think that the reason Dancing Bears is so successful is because it forces the kids to read through each word (via the cursor for all 3 levels). Also, if they get a word wrong they have to repeat it until corrected (once during the original lesson and then again the next day). I also think that maybe starting at the beginning and working through the progression of sounds helps as well. Also, it is mostly word lists, that make guessing from context impossible.

 

That said, I'm trying the uppercase Blend Phonics in (in a Dancing Bears fashion, using the tip of a pencil to track words instead of the cursor).

 

If he is still having problems by the end of Blend Phonics, I might seek an evaluation of some sort. :-/

 

P.s....This is a hopeful thread:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/529301-helpfluency/?do=findComment&comment=6142477

[Crimson Wife]

No suggestions, but {{{hugs}}} My little one does that because it's easier for her to guess than to decode letter-by-letter and then blend it back together again. We're in the middle of district testing and trying to figure out the best plan to move forward.

[rachelpants]

P.s.s....

I'm 100% banking all of my current efforts on this 1 post by ElizabethB

 

"My how to tutor materials teach all the phonics you need to sound out anything up to a 12th grade level, you can go through it in 2 hours or a month depending on the pace of the student, a student taught with traditional phonics and no sight words can learn it all in a few hours.

 

It is designed for someone making the exact errors your daughter is making, I have worked with hundreds of remedial students over the last 21 years.

 

A few of my students have underlying speech or vision problems as well, but most don't.

 

An older student will take much longer to remediate because the guessing habits have been ingrained for years. Older students take months of stopping reading and may take a year or more to fully remediate, and most still have a degree of guessing habits. A younger student can be completely retrained when you stop outside reading and use nonsense words and syllables to force them to sound out every sound from L to R."

[LaughingCat]

The notched cursor from Dancing Bears.  Also described in I See Sam somewhere I believe (found it).

Also doing Dancing Bears Fast Track itself helped my DD a  lot with this.

 

ElizabethB's site is a good one to start with too.

[Ottakee]

The notched cursor from Dancing Bears.  Also described in I See Sam somewhere I believe (found it).

Also doing Dancing Bears Fast Track itself helped my DD a  lot with this.

 

ElizabethB's site is a good one to start with too.

My first suggestion was going to be the notched card with Dancing Bears and/or the I See Sam readers.  With the I See Sam readers the child can NOT read the pictures or guess by the first letter as they use Nan and Nat and other words that look similar but would change the meaning of the story.  Very helpful.

 

If that doesnt' help then the vision therapy eval might be in order.

[TheAttachedMama]

My first suggestion was going to be the notched card with Dancing Bears and/or the I See Sam readers.  With the I See Sam readers the child can NOT read the pictures or guess by the first letter as they use Nan and Nat and other words that look similar but would change the meaning of the story.  Very helpful.

 

If that doesnt' help then the vision therapy eval might be in order.

 

Thanks!   We have been doing the notched card off and on for awhile now with the I See Sam Readers and Dancing Bears.   However, EVERY time I put the notched card away he reverts back to guessing.  It is especially bad when we aren't doing "reading".  Like if he is reading a word problem in math for example.

 

Also, I am sort of jadded feeling about vision therapy.   We did that already.  Spent HUNDREDS of dollars with a COVD doctor and didn't see much improvement.   I sort of feel like we were "taken" by this therapy.    His handwritting got better, but that might have just been due to time more than therapy.  Its hard to tell. 

[Ottakee]

Thanks!   We have been doing the notched card off and on for awhile now with the I See Sam Readers and Dancing Bears.   However, EVERY time I put the notched card away he reverts back to guessing.  It is especially bad when we aren't doing "reading".  Like if he is reading a word problem in math for example.

 

Also, I am sort of jadded feeling about vision therapy.   We did that already.  Spent HUNDREDS of dollars with a COVD doctor and didn't see much improvement.   I sort of feel like we were "taken" by this therapy.    His handwritting got better, but that might have just been due to time more than therapy.  Its hard to tell. 

I would use the notched card ALL of the time for now for ALL reading.

 

Sorry vision therapy didn't help.  It didn't do much for my daughter but for my nephew it was LIFE CHANGING.  He went from hardly reading as a 5th grader to well above grade level and now in 9th grade with a college level reading.  The difference for him was amazing.  It was so sad to see an obviously very bright young man not able to read as well as a K student----or my daughter who has an IQ in the 50s as she was several years ahead of him.  Now after vision therapy he is doing great.

[TheAttachedMama]

Get an evaluation through a neuropsychologist.  These are classic signs of dyslexia.

 

Thanks so much for your kind replies.   IF I did decide to go down this path, what would be my first step?  Would I talk to my regular pediatrician first and get a referral? 

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks so much for your kind replies.   IF I did decide to go down this path, what would be my first step?  Would I talk to my regular pediatrician first and get a referral? 

I guess that would depend on your insurance and your ped.  Our pediatrician, while incredibly nice, was utterly useless for any help in this area.  In fact, when we finally found someone that could do a more accurate diagnosis based on more current scientific research, she was really surprised at the results.  She now comes to me for more information and resources to recommend to other patients.  She just wasn't given any useful info on this in med school.

 

If your insurance requires a referral then you may need to go through your ped, though, so see if you can find out if an eval might be covered.  And your pediatrician may actually have a clue so they could be a valuable resource.

 

 My first suggestion?  Read.  Do research.  Come at this with some background knowledge so you can ask questions that will hopefully get you useful answers.  And you can hopefully also tell when someone is telling you things that don't make sense.  There are, sadly, a lot of medical and educational professionals that are truly clueless regarding this topic.  

 

And best wishes....

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, and some are very fearful of getting a label stuck on their child that could negatively affect them later in life.  My husband, who is dyslexic and dysgraphic, has a terrible time in school.  His nephew had an even worse time.  DH absolutely did not want a label on our kids.  He never wanted to even consider that they might have a learning issue like dyslexia.  He preferred to think of it as a "quirk" or just being a bit defiant.  We waited years.  Too many years.  And have been playing catch up ever since.  Our very bright children suffered needlessly as material got harder and they slipped further behind.  

 

A private eval through a neuro-psychologist is just that...private.  You share the info only with those you wish to.  It can give you valuable answers and possible better options and paths to pursue for educating your child but you don't have to share the results with anyone if you choose not to.

 

Also, getting an evaluation may place you in a position to advocate for accommodations for your child, such as with standardized testing.  This isn't cheating.  It is leveling the playing field, giving a very bright child the ability to show more of their capabilities instead of being hampered by their weaker areas.  

 

But do research first.  Read up.  Definitely read books like The Mislabeled Child, as mentioned upthread.  The book isn't perfect and some info is a bit outdated now but it will help you to ask better questions and maybe get a clearer picture of all the many things that may be tripping your child up.  I highly recommend it.  There could be many things causing difficulties but if you can get solid answers a great many of those things can be dealt with and your child will have a much greater chance of not just surviving the educational process but actually thriving, now and later in life.

 

Other resources that might help if dyslexia becomes a strong possibility:

 

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss

[TheAttachedMama]

Thanks again for your replies.   I'm not so much worried about a "label" per se.   What I am worried about is getting caught in the never ending "therapy" trap.   It is hard for me to explain, but I think it is very easy if you have a child with some sort of learn disability to caught in a never ending cycle of therapies, evaluations, office visits, etc.   As a parent, it can feel like being stuck on a hampster wheel!  

 

When my son was 4, I had a friend who suggested I take him in for a sensory processing evaluation.    He did have symptoms.  So we talked with our pediatrician who sent us to an OT who specialized in sensory issues.  And she diagnosed him with SPD.   Then, we went through sensory occupational therapy which costs us $150 a week!   (We are not rich people, so this was incredibly hard for us to pay for.)   It involved lots of swinging and homework on my part.   (Which I did willingly!  I wanted to help my son.)    We did the OT for about 6 months.

 

Then, we switched to another OT that worked better with our insurance.   We did OT with her for about 20 weeks.  About half way thorugh,  she recommended vision therapy in addition to his occupational therapy.  She noticed that Marcus wasn't tracking very well with his eyes.   So we took him to a COVD doctor for an evaluation.   They found tracking and convergence insufficiency issues and he went through several vision therapy sessions along with his occupational therapy.   (He wasn't reading much at this point yet.   Just completed level 1 of AAR.) 

 

THEN, they recommended that he go to Physical therapy because he wasn't able to peddle a bike or catch a ball.  So we took him in for a PT evaluation.  After they did they evaluation, they said he needed PT.  We couldn't afford it after all of this other therapy, so we did nothing.  :(  

 

BUT, a little while later---something happened.  One day he just learned to pedal a bike and catch a ball himself....with absolutely no therapy.  Which got me thinking....did he just need more time than most kids to develop?   After all of that OT things did improve slightly, but was that due to time or the expensive therapy?   After all of that vision therapy and OT, his handwriting did improve slightly.   But was that due to time and patience and practice....or all of the therapy?   I guess we are very leery of taking him in for MORE evaluations.   I almost feel like they always find something when they are looking for something.   Part of me wonders if his reading might be like everything else with him....he just needs more time to develop than some kids.    But I am torn because I don't want to do him a disservice by not taking him in.   

 

So, truthfully, that is my hesitation with taking him in for an evaluation.  I don't want to get caught in a "never ending" therapy loop again.   I want to make sure this isn't something we can't solve on our own at home BEFORE I start seeking more evaluations and therapy.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Totally get the fear of the never ending therapy loop.  That can be financially and emotionally draining and you are right, sometimes it isn't clear at all if the therapy or just more time may have made the difference, especially with a very young child.

 

The reason I would encourage an eval through a neuropsychologist is to confirm the details of where your child's issues may be, as well as strengths, but once you get those details, you can choose your own path for addressing the information.  In other words, this is not so you have to immediately start more therapies.  It is just to have better answers for what may be happening.

 

For instance, when the kids finally got decent private evals (we had a few that were utterly useless through the school), I found out that DS has phenomenal strengths in auditory learning, but does even better if coupled with something colorful and visual.  I mean extreme strengths in this area.  However, if he was dealing with a resource that was only black and white with no color and no auditory component, his comprehension dropped like a stone.  I mean almost no comprehension or retention whatsoever. Honestly this partly explained why his grades in kinder and 1st were top of the class but dropped considerably in 2nd when much of the material no longer had an auditory or color component.  There were other reasons, too, such as undiagnosed dysgraphia, but the lack of color and auditory reinforcement definitely made an impact.  We just didn't know why he was struggling until after the evals.  

 

DD, on the other hand, does not do well with only auditory components and it makes not one whit of difference if something is colorful or not.  In fact, sometimes color confuses her.  Yet she is very visually oriented and paints quite well in color.  

 

The evals also clearly showed that both children are dyslexic but because of different underlying strengths and weaknesses they did not present the same way.  Those evals were so, so helpful.  We were able to seek out materials that were more targeted to help them at home with their weak areas while also tapping their strengths.  No therapies, just understanding better which programs to seek out.  Programs such as Barton and LiPS that could be done at home (and for a fraction of the cost of hiring a dyslexia tutor).  The detailed knowledge we got in those evals has definitely helped me in seeking materials to homeschool with.  

 

Honestly, what you are describing sounds very much like dyslexia.  Have you read any of the resources mentioned on this thread regarding dyslexia?

 

Hugs and best wishes...

[TheAttachedMama]

Yes, I have been reading information on dyslexia all weekend!  :)  LOL

My child sounds very much like the child described in PitterPatter's thread here (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/539358-dds-dyslexicright-confused/)

 

Just to give the group a bit more of his "history"

He has always been a good communicator.  He started making signs very early (at 6 months) and starting talking very early too (9 months).   He didn't start string words together into phrases until he was 2 years old.   He has no speech impediments, and he is very articulate.   He is very good at narrating and storytelling.  He has an enormous vocabulary, and if you read him something he will remember it forever.   (He loves listening to me read aloud, and he loves listening to audiobooks.)  

 

He started to recognize letters and learned all of their basic sounds by 4 years old.  We started him on AAR Pre-Level 1 and then AAR level 1 when he was 5.   THAT is when I started to notice him having problems.   It took him a long while to learn how to blend all of those sounds into words despite the very specific instruction provided in AAR.   He can rhyme and isolate sounds at the beginning, middle, and end of words.  He can run through all of the phonogram cards in AAR very well.  He did struggle with understanding syllables and still stumbles on that concept now even though I have taught it quite a bit. 

 

He seems to stumble over high frequency words that I *know* he knows when reading.  (As an example, he will suddenly get held up on 'had' for some reason even though he has read it a million times before successfully.  Its almost like his mind get stuck!)   Sometimes when reading he seems to get stuck on what sound to say even though I know he knows the sound.   Like he will come to the word "ball" and keep saying the short e sound or something completely out of left field.  Usually I just give him the sound and we move on.   But occasionally I have asked him questions trying to see if I can figure out why this problem happens.   I will ask him if he can see the letter at the start of that word and he will say yes and give me its name.   Then, I ask him why he was making the short e sound.  "Did it look like an e for a second."  "No," he will say.  "I don't know why I do that." 

 

We then tried some other things to supplement AAR to see if a different teaching procedure would help.  We dabbled in OPTR for awhile, ETC, IEW PAL, etc. etc.  We finally came back to AAR because it seems to be the most effective even though he was making slow progress. 

 

As far as writing goes, He still reverses letters from time to time even though we have done HWT and daily copywork for nearly 2 years.  

He is a pretty decent speller.   We are on level 2 of AAS and he can usually spell most of the words he has been taught.   Spelling seems easier for him than reading.  Sometimes he can spell words that he then (a moment later) can't read.   (I always wonder, "How can he spell a word that he can't read?")  

 

I started to suspect that AAR was causing some bad habits in his reading this summer.   AAR uses word cards as a review method, and I think he started reading these words by sight in an attempt to 'master' them.   So I blame those word cards for starting his guessing habit!  :)  I switched him over to the "I See Sam" readers and he started to make LEAPS and BOUNDS in his reading.   He went from about an early kindergarten level to a late first grade reading level in just a few months.   We started in on set 6 of the I see Sam books, and then started to try to read some of the Sonlight grade 2 books.  (Things like Frog and Toad and Little Bear.)

 

His reading has improved a TON.  A TON since we started using the I See Sam books, but his reading is still very choppy.   He still gets stuck on high frequency words sometimes.  And he still has this really deeply ingrained guessing habit.  

 

I am going to give my son the Miller test that Elizabeth linked to in Pitter Patter's thread.   I suspect that he still attempts to read by 'word shape' or beginning letter or context clues a lot of the time.   So I am going to use that test to see if that is true or not.

[TheAttachedMama]

One more question.....

 

I found out that my insurance doesn't need a referral to see a specialist.   SO---what is my next step?   How do I find a good doctor to do an evaluation?  I'm going to ask around in my local homeschool group.   But I just wonder how one goes about finding a good doctor to do an evaluation.  

[OneStepAtATime]

First, guessing and missing sight words is incredibly common with dyslexics.  Those poor reading habits are going to have to be unlearned and that may take a lot of time, patience and the removal of all outside reading sources except for controlled text until the habits are unlearned and better ones learned.  That is where programs like Barton and Wilson and other OG based systems can be a real help.  They do this systematically.  No guess work on the part of the parent/tutor.  

 

As for finding a good doctor, that's tough.  You might check with your pediatrician but definitely network around.  Ask the homeschool group, do searches on-line, etc.  Then start calling.  Talk to the receptionist, see how much they actually do in an eval.  Not all evals are created equal so if you are going to spend the money and the time it would be helpful to make certain they are covering a lot of bases.  Read up on learning challenges and take notes on things you would like to ask if they test for.  Also ask how long the tests usually run.  A two hour test obviously won't cover as much as a 5 hour, for instance.  Compare apples to apples as much as you can.

 

I realize that a multi-hour test for a child may seem awful and intimidating.  It really depends on the tester.  The good ones can make it work out with most kids.  For instance, the testers we used through the school had one of my kids in tears within half an hour.  The test results didn't reflect anything useful.  The tests were a waste.  However, the private evaluator we finally used had the kids (separate days) for about 7 hours (8am - 3pm?) but she took breaks with them, played with them, kept the flow smooth, not intimidating, and just really made an effort to connect with them and help them feel comfortable and engaged.  They both actually came out of the evals smiling.  DS even took home a tomato plant she gave him because he admired her tomatoes so much.  I found her through a friend who was also getting her twins evaluated.  My pediatrician, unfortunately, had no useful suggestions.

[Crimson Wife]

One more question.....

 

I found out that my insurance doesn't need a referral to see a specialist.   SO---what is my next step?   How do I find a good doctor to do an evaluation?  I'm going to ask around in my local homeschool group.   But I just wonder how one goes about finding a good doctor to do an evaluation.  

 

Susan Barton may have a list of good dyslexia testers in your area if you request the info from her website.

[TheAttachedMama]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just wanted to give an update on how things are going. 

 

(Also to vent a bit because I am feeling SO, SO, SO discouraged and tired with teaching reading.  I really do feel like quitting....)

 

So---since I last posted here is what I have been doing:

 

I decided to try and break him from the guessing / word skipping habit by moving him off of sentences, paragraphs and books for awhile.   That way he can't use context clues to predict words in sentences.   I also decided to pull out the ol' dancing bears cursor so that he would be forced to read through the word and say each sound. 

 

I gave him a couple of the tests that were linked in other threads.   I gave him the Miller Word Identification test and according to that he isn't reading using the "whole" word method.   HOWEVER, I still suspect that he is.   I think that test is biased towards kids who have been taught using sight word lists.   And, You see, I have never taught him common sight words.  He has always been taught using some type of phonics approach and read through phonics readers.   (I See Sam, All About Reading, etc.)   So he hasn't been exposed to those common sight words more often than the words most kids have to decode. 

 

So, then I gave him the "New Elizabethian" test, and he struggled with that.   I think mostly because he isn't very good at breaking words into syllables.   AND because the test showed some gaps in his phonics knowledge. 

 

SO--I've been trying to go back and fill in those gaps using some reading materials we already own.   Our budget is tight, and I really can't afford to buy new materials at the moment.  Plus, We own all 4 levels of AAR, Dancing Bears fast track, and the first 7 levels of the I See Sam Readers.   So I am hoping that between all of that I should be able to do a pretty decent phonics review.  (Right?)

 

So, here has been the general process....

 

Phase 1:   I took out my copy of dancing bears fast track and started going through that with my son.   HOWEVER, I realized that that book was introducing new words sounds too quickly for my son.  It was too much of a 'fast track' for my son. :)  So, then.....

 

Phase 2:   I got out my copies of All About Reading and started going through all of those lessons again with the letter tiles on the board.   (He is too keyed in to context when reading and often predicts text when reading sentences and stories.   So we are ONLY using the letter tiles and word lists from AAR.)  I have him touch each tile and say its sound when blending the words.   He does really well with this and can decode pretty much any word he has been taught the sounds of.  (He struggles sometimes with breaking words into syllables.)   I was doing this for about 20 minutes per day and reviewed everything in AAR 2.    So then we got out the AAR 2 fluency sheets.  (We aren't doing the phrases or sentences....just the lists of words.)    I am using the cursor method that they use in dancing bears with these word sheets.  I am revealing only a single "sound" at a time.   He does well with this too.

 

Phase 3:   SO then, I decided to continue on doing just the phonics lessons in the remaining copies of AAR 3 and 4.   We do a 'pure' phonics lesson in the morning for about 20 minutes using the letter tiles and AAR word lists.   We aren't doing any of the readers in AAR.

 

Phase 4:So--at that point, I started to feel more confident.   (Maybe too confident???) And I decided to add in a 2nd reading lesson in the afternoon working through the Set 6 "I see Sam" readers.    I did this because those readers seemed to be really effective with my son in the past.   They are the single most helpful things I have used with him.

 

My son can read these pretty well IF (BIG IF) I use the cursor dancing bears style.   He is still trying to guess.  For example, sometimes he "reads" the next word when I haven't even uncovered it yet.   (grr.)

 

And--- if I try to have them read them without the cursor his reading falls apart.  He starts skipping, guessing, etc. etc. etc.   Anytime he guesses, I was pulling out the AAR tiles, spelling the word, and having him touch each letter and make its sound.  He hates this, but I'm not sure what else I can do to try to force him to read without so much blatant guessing.

 

The thing is....when I use the cursor his reading becomes technically more accurate, but his comprehension falls because the reading becomes more choppy because I struggle with moving the cursor fast enough.  (His comprehension is usually really, really good.) 

------------------

 

I also scheduled an appointment with the same developmental optomologist who saw him the first time to see if he still needs more vision therapy.  That apt won't happen until March.   I am doing this because his reading really seems to break down when I am not using the cursor which makes me think he is having some type of tracking issue. 

 

He is also still struggling with letter reversals in reading AND in writing (b and d, the number 6, etc.)   He does really well with spelling and sentence dictation.   It is just reading that he seems to struggle with the most. 

[PeterPan]

If an 8 yo can't break words into syllables, you need a CTOPP (test of phonological processing), not another vision exam.  That's a phonological issue and VT won't change it.  

[rachelpants]

I think it takes longer for hard core guessers to break the habit (according to what I read from ElizabethB,lol).

 

Have you tried having him read through words that are already divided into syllables....like the word lists in Webster's Speller? I'd be interested to know how he does with them.....my hunch is that he'd do well.

[rachelpants]

I forgot to add....

 

I had a hard time with the cursor as well. How does he do with following the pencil tip? Any better?

 

P.s.s. He can orally break words into syllables, right?

[TheAttachedMama]

If an 8 yo can't break words into syllables, you need a CTOPP (test of phonological processing), not another vision exam.  That's a phonological issue and VT won't change it.  

 

Thanks for your reply.  Just to clarify, trouble breaking words into syllables is just ONE of his problems.  I am really hoping that some more time with AAR and their syllable division rules/practice will help with that.   But only some more time will tell. 

 

I only mentioned the syllable issue because that seems to be the only issue he has when decoding words using the AAR letter tiles.   BUT, I suddenly move him to words on the page and he is having a lot more trouble. 

 

When a word is on the page, he suddenly tries to guess instead of taking the time to sound out the word.    He also skips words a lot.  I also notice that he skips sounds in words too.  I hear him trying to sound out a word over and over again and he keeps skipping a certain letter in the word so he can't decode the word.   (He just won't make the letter's sound.)  Once I underline the letter he suddenly "sees" it and can decode the word.   But it takes me underlining it or building it with tiles for hm to "see it" suddenly and make its sound.

 

Sometimes I **think** he also picks up letters from the line below or above.   For example, The other day he kept sounding out the word "popped" at "hopped".   He was getting really mad at me because I kept telling him to "try again".   He kept saying, "Its hopped! hopped!  hopped!"  

 

Finally I built the word with letter tiles and he had an "aha!" moment.   Then I noticed that the word directly below this word started with an "h".   I wonder if he was picking up that letter???   That is the reason why I was thinking that maybe some vision testing would be in order? 

 

He also tries to predict and guess based on context clue.  Again, sometimes he "reads" the next word before I've even uncovered it with the cursor.....so he can't even see the word.  

[TheAttachedMama]

I think it takes longer for hard core guessers to break the habit (according to what I read from ElizabethB,lol).

 

Have you tried having him read through words that are already divided into syllables....like the word lists in Webster's Speller? I'd be interested to know how he does with them.....my hunch is that he'd do well.

 

Yes, if the words are already broken into syllables, he can read them just fine.  

He can also orally break words into syllables and count syllables.  

[TheAttachedMama]

I forgot to add....

 

I had a hard time with the cursor as well. How does he do with following the pencil tip? Any better?

 

P.s.s. He can orally break words into syllables, right?

 

Sorry for the repeated replies, but I can't get multiquote to work!  

 

The pencil tip is SO, SO, SO much easier for ME to use.  BUT, my problem with the pencil tip is that I suspect he is attempting to read by 'sight'.   I suspect that because he often confuses similar looking words with each other.   And with the pencil tip, he can still look at the whole word and therefore I'm not sure if he is really reading through the word.

 

The pencil tip does seem to help him 'track' and that makes a world of difference.   Even holding a piece of folded paper under the line he is on makes a world of difference.   BUT, he sometimes confuses words like "stopped" with "spotted" and "they" with "then" and "wanted" with "walked".  (Those are the most common switches I can think that he makes.) 

[PeterPan]

Thanks for your reply.  Just to clarify, trouble breaking words into syllables is just ONE of his problems.  I am really hoping that some more time with AAR and their syllable division rules/practice will help with that.   But only some more time will tell. 

 

I only mentioned the syllable issue because that seems to be the only issue he has when decoding words using the AAR letter tiles.   BUT, I suddenly move him to words on the page and he is having a lot more trouble. 

 

When a word is on the page, he suddenly tries to guess instead of taking the time to sound out the word.    He also skips words a lot.  I also notice that he skips sounds in words too.  I hear him trying to sound out a word over and over again and he keeps skipping a certain letter in the word so he can't decode the word.   (He just won't make the letter's sound.)  Once I underline the letter he suddenly "sees" it and can decode the word.   But it takes me underlining it or building it with tiles for hm to "see it" suddenly and make its sound.

 

Sometimes I **think** he also picks up letters from the line below or above.   For example, The other day he kept sounding out the word "popped" at "hopped".   He was getting really mad at me because I kept telling him to "try again".   He kept saying, "Its hopped! hopped!  hopped!"  

 

Finally I built the word with letter tiles and he had an "aha!" moment.   Then I noticed that the word directly below this word started with an "h".   I wonder if he was picking up that letter???   That is the reason why I was thinking that maybe some vision testing would be in order? 

 

He also tries to predict and guess based on context clue.  Again, sometimes he "reads" the next word before I've even uncovered it with the cursor.....so he can't even see the word.  

A 5 yo should be able to count syllables and a 6 yo should be able to delete them (elision).  Here's a chart.  http://www.readingrockets.org/article/development-phonological-skills  It's developmental, not that an instruction problem.  If he can't do normal developmental tasks in spite of normal instruction (which is what you've been giving) he needs evals.

 

I understand why you want to think it's *your* fault, like maybe if *you* were a better teacher it wouldn't be happening, but that just isn't the case.  Any child without a disability would have developed those skills by now.  The fact that he hasn't is your indication something is amiss.  And getting evals gets you the right words so you can connect with the proper materials.  AAS/AAR is *not* necessarily the program of choice for dyslexia.  It could be for some kids, especially after a foundation in another program, but other kids really, really need the more detailed approach of Barton, Wilson, something aimed directly at dyslexics.  I taught through SWR and AAS with my dd.  If I could make them work for my ds, I would be and wouldn't be spending the money on Barton.

 

Have you considered asking your ps for evals?  At this point, given what you're describing, even they should be able to catch it, mercy.

[Heathermomster]

This thread addresses everything that you are currently dealing with.  Start reading at message 19.

[LaughingCat]

Have you tried having him find the phonemes/syllables himself by looping under them with a pencil ala Abecedarian/Rewards?

Here is a sample of phoneme looping on page 3 for Abecedarian (it shows a straight line but we always did more of a curved one - thus 'looping') and syllable looping is in the samples for Rewards(you have to enter your email to get samples on the Sopris site)  [for any one who doesn't want to enter their address  here  is a description of Rewards -- on page 30 and 36 in the instructions it shows the looping --  basically you draw curved lines under each syllable - like a parenthesis turned sideways]

 

Or you could try having him control the cursor while you control the pencil?  So your pencil would show him the word he missed and he would have to be the one figuring out where to break it apart?  I like the looping better myself but it does means writing on the page.  

 

Also the Abecedarian error correction technique (I think there is a video of this too? posted on other threads?) is great for this too  -- where you say the sound for them "you said 'patting' with a 'p' here but this is a 't' - please try again". 
 

FWIW I completely understand why you think this might be vision -similar issues seemed like vision to me too but, for my DD, VT did not help with skipping words/lines/letters out of order.

[rachelpants]

FWIW I completely understand why you think this might be vision -similar issues seemed like vision to me too but, for my DD, VT did not help with skipping words/lines/letters out of order.

I'm curious if your DD is still having problems? If not, what do you think helped? :)

 

ETA:

Also, thanks for your post and links...very helpful...:)

[LaughingCat]

Yes, she is still having problems -- the problems are far less than they used to be but still there( while listening to her read aloud recently I even thought that someone who didn't know her might not realize she had a problem! first time ever that I have thought that!  ETA:She was reading The Lightning Thief). 

 

For mixing up letters within words (unrelated to guessing - she did this when speaking too):

LIPS

 

What has helped for guessing:

DB Fast Track -- cursor and mixed word practice (so that she had to decide what phoneme to use when -not rely on the 'days lesson' to tell her) 

Rewards Secondary -- syllable looping and very simple rules on how to split words into syllables

 

What has helped for skipping lines:

PACE exercise -- reading across the page by columns not left to right, innermost 2, next 2.... outermost 2  to a relatively constant rhythm (although the rhythm in itself was a lot of working up to for my DD).     I found a PACE manual used at a library sale -- it uses #'s in columns - I switched to the DB A power pages - and have been slowly shrinking the text smaller and smaller (note: I bought DB A for my younger but it has been wonderful for this! -- I could have used just the first pages of FT though)

 

For skipping words -- what helped me was having her read some sentences from a program ElizabethB recommended, where small words (the/a/of/by/and) were mixed in with nonsense words and seeing how immediately she sounded just like she did when reading much harder real words and how much decoding phonetics appeared to be visual issue. She read the nonsense words perfectly and missed the 'little words' instead.    She was further along than it sounds like your DS is at that point though.   If I were you, I would look at ElizabethB's nonsense word game for this.  Or if you have just a little bit of money - buy DB A.   I also think the PACE exercise helped with this as well - since it required relatively fast decoding of a number of small words (and DD is not a memorizer - so coming back around to the same sheet would not have helped her) -- but if your DS is struggling with early pages in DB FT then probably he is not ready for that. 

 

Also helped - that Abecedarian error correction technique -- I came to it late but it would have saved eons (seemingly!) of struggle/meltdown. 

[TheAttachedMama]

A 5 yo should be able to count syllables and a 6 yo should be able to delete them (elision).  Here's a chart.  http://www.readingrockets.org/article/development-phonological-skills  It's developmental, not that an instruction problem.  If he can't do normal developmental tasks in spite of normal instruction (which is what you've been giving) he needs evals.

 

I understand why you want to think it's *your* fault, like maybe if *you* were a better teacher it wouldn't be happening, but that just isn't the case.  Any child without a disability would have developed those skills by now.  The fact that he hasn't is your indication something is amiss.  And getting evals gets you the right words so you can connect with the proper materials.  AAS/AAR is *not* necessarily the program of choice for dyslexia.  It could be for some kids, especially after a foundation in another program, but other kids really, really need the more detailed approach of Barton, Wilson, something aimed directly at dyslexics.  I taught through SWR and AAS with my dd.  If I could make them work for my ds, I would be and wouldn't be spending the money on Barton.

 

Have you considered asking your ps for evals?  At this point, given what you're describing, even they should be able to catch it, mercy.

Elizabeth, I think maybe you misunderstand.   He can count syllables orally.   (Example:  he can tell me how many syllables are in dinosaur or microphone or doggy for example.)   I just had him go through that chart and he can do all of those phonological skills that your chart links to.  Even the ones that are above his age.  He liked those 'puzzles' and thought they were fun and fairly easy.  He has actually been able to do those types of manipulations for several years now. 

 

However, he has trouble looking at a written or printed word and knowing where the syllables split...therefore decoding it.  (With the tiles.)   Example:  If he saw Caterpillar, he has trouble seeing where the syllables split.  So he might decode it as CATE-RPILL-AR   So first he would read the "a" as a long a sound which messes him up.  Then he would have trouble blending the r and p together because they aren't suppose to be blend together.  That isn't an exact word he has struggled with.  Just an idea of what type of thing he is doing.

 

And even though he can decode all of these words with tiles, again, he has problems with written words on the page.  (Unless the font is HUGE.)   Suddenly, when he sees a word on a page he starts skipping over sounds or picking up letters from the lines below, or skipping words, etc.   Sometimes he will skip entire phrases at the beginning of the sentence even.   Example:  The paragraphs starts out, "One day Frog walked to his garden."  And he starts with the word "Frog walked to his garden."   He won't catch his error even with prompting until I go back and underline the words he was skipping or ask him to physically point with his finger to the first word on the line.  (Pointing always helps him 'magically' see things he is skipping for some reason.) 

 

The strange problem I am having is that he does REALLY well with the tiles or words in isolation, but can't seem to do the same thing with words on a page. 

 

Also, I am currently doing the best that I can with the resources I can.   I would love to buy wilson or barton....but it isn't going to happen in the near future....so I am just trying my best with what we have to work with.  :)   But I will keep researching it and keeping my options open.  Thanks again for your reply and taking the time to share your knowledge.   I really do appreciate it, and am very thankful for it!    

 

[FairProspects]

Thanks for your reply.  Just to clarify, trouble breaking words into syllables is just ONE of his problems.  I am really hoping that some more time with AAR and their syllable division rules/practice will help with that.   But only some more time will tell. 

 

I only mentioned the syllable issue because that seems to be the only issue he has when decoding words using the AAR letter tiles.   BUT, I suddenly move him to words on the page and he is having a lot more trouble. 

 

When a word is on the page, he suddenly tries to guess instead of taking the time to sound out the word.    He also skips words a lot.  I also notice that he skips sounds in words too.  I hear him trying to sound out a word over and over again and he keeps skipping a certain letter in the word so he can't decode the word.   (He just won't make the letter's sound.)  Once I underline the letter he suddenly "sees" it and can decode the word.   But it takes me underlining it or building it with tiles for hm to "see it" suddenly and make its sound.

 

Sometimes I **think** he also picks up letters from the line below or above.   For example, The other day he kept sounding out the word "popped" at "hopped".   He was getting really mad at me because I kept telling him to "try again".   He kept saying, "Its hopped! hopped!  hopped!"  

 

Finally I built the word with letter tiles and he had an "aha!" moment.   Then I noticed that the word directly below this word started with an "h".   I wonder if he was picking up that letter???   That is the reason why I was thinking that maybe some vision testing would be in order? 

 

He also tries to predict and guess based on context clue.  Again, sometimes he "reads" the next word before I've even uncovered it with the cursor.....so he can't even see the word.  

 

This is *another* classic sign of dyslexia. It actually is "hopped" to him because his brain is recalling the wrong letter sound. If it is dyslexia, he CAN'T help it. You really need a CTOPP & a neuropsych eval. Fwiw, my stealth dyslexics do *awesome* with individual words on a page and fall apart with fluency. That doesn't make them any less dyslexic.

[TheAttachedMama]

Have you tried having him find the phonemes/syllables himself by looping under them with a pencil ala Abecedarian/Rewards?

Here is a sample of phoneme looping on page 3 for Abecedarian (it shows a straight line but we always did more of a curved one - thus 'looping') and syllable looping is in the samples for Rewards(you have to enter your email to get samples on the Sopris site)  [for any one who doesn't want to enter their address  here  is a description of Rewards -- on page 30 and 36 in the instructions it shows the looping --  basically you draw curved lines under each syllable - like a parenthesis turned sideways]

 

Or you could try having him control the cursor while you control the pencil?  So your pencil would show him the word he missed and he would have to be the one figuring out where to break it apart?  I like the looping better myself but it does means writing on the page.  

 

Also the Abecedarian error correction technique (I think there is a video of this too? posted on other threads?) is great for this too  -- where you say the sound for them "you said 'patting' with a 'p' here but this is a 't' - please try again". 

 

FWIW I completely understand why you think this might be vision -similar issues seemed like vision to me too but, for my DD, VT did not help with skipping words/lines/letters out of order.

 

Yes!  Thank you for the links.  Very helpful.  There is a big part of me who feels skeptical about VT.  So thanks for sharing your experience.

 

I will try it tomorrow.   But, I am nearly 100% positive that he could decode the words if he did that "looping" ahead of time.  I've never seen Abecedarian until now, but I have naturally been doing similar markings when he struggles with a word.  Anytime I (or he) marks a word it is like he suddenly can 'see it' and decode it just fine.   He stops skipping over letters or whatever he is doing that is tripping him up.   BUT then when he comes to the same word that isn't marked, he might suddenly struggle.

 

And, yes, to help him with longer words, I usually do either have to mark the word to show where the syllables start and end. 

 

But, how do you transition out of marking the words? 

 

Also, I have also been doing the error correction technique that you showed.   The guy who created the "I See Sam" books suggested something similar and that I what I have been doing. 

[TheAttachedMama]

This thread addresses everything that you are currently dealing with.  Start reading at message 19.

 

Thanks Heather!  That thread was very helpful.  That is actually the thread that gave me the idea to go back to word lists and more work with phonics and stop all reading.  Mabye I moved back to books too soon though.  

[rachelpants]

I wonder if you had him read through Websters Speller if it would help? I read here somewhere that ElizabethB said that some kids can pick up the pattern of reading multisyllabic words through reading Webster's if the rules of dividing the syllables don't come naturally. I also remember her saying that kids can gain reading levels through going through her phonics lessons more than once. I wonder if some kids just need more repetition and if different things stick at different times.

 

Honestly, I thought that once my DS had been through a phonics program that he would be "done" learning how to read. I no longer think that is the case ;). It will not surprise me if I have to finish Blend Phonics, then go through AAR, followed by ElizabethB's lessons rounded out by Websters Speller and then do Fast Track, lol. Oh boy. I wish I had better advice...hang in there! We had a rough day too....My DS decided to sound out several short-a words with the short e sound. Seriously? I think I'm developing an eye-twitch. Lol.

 

Laughing Cat....thanks a million for your posts :) ....good stuff!

[LaughingCat]

Rewards has you start out with words in word lists, and then move to a mix of word lists and reading (it is a relatively short program ~12 weeks if I am remembering right).     When using it during reading, I never had her do the marking ahead of time - I had her do it when she missed a word by guessing and/or by adding/subtracting/moving letters.   The transition happened relatively naturally.  It did not 'cure' the issue but made a huge jump in her ability to read words. 

 

I will add that the simple rules of syllabification that Rewards used were key for DD -- during reading she needs something simple because there's no working memory left to be working her way through a long list of rules ( I did add 2 simple rules to their very short method).  But if your DS has no problem remembering the rules then that may not be an issue.

 

[TheAttachedMama]

For those mentioning getting him an evaluation---I am still unclear about my first steps in the process.  How do I find a good evaluator?  Do I call my pediatrician for a recommendations?  What type of credentials do I want the person to have?   I tried asking around my local home school community, and the 'titles' of the evaluators range from "certified dyslexia tutor" to an "M.D." etc.   How do I find someone good?

 

Someone local sent me to the "Dyslexia Institutes of Americas" website for evaluation information.   Would that be a good source?

 

Also seems a lot of the people giving out these 'titles' have a monetary motivation in making the diagnosis.  (A lot of them are tudors who then sell you their service.) 

[PeterPan]

Definitely agree with your questioning!  Learning Ally has lists that seem pretty extensive even if they are self-referred.  What you're looking for is some kind of psych (ed psych, neuropsych, whatever, typically a neuropsych) who will run a test of phonological processing like the CTOPP.  By going to a psych you get the whole enchilada (learning disorders plus anything else going on).  They'll usually talk with you for a few minutes on the phone, which will give you a chance to see if they're homeschool-friendly (or at least neutral), if you think they'll be helpful, etc.  

 

Your real problem is that most private psychs don't accept insurance.  If you have insurance, that may drive the direction you need to go first.  You may need some kind of referral for insurance purposes.  

[pitterpatter]

I realize this is blind leading the blind here, but I think this is a very real possibility. I started DD on AAR 3 at the beginning of the month. We complete one lesson per day (sometimes I move a word page to the second, lighter day). I didn't buy the readers, but we use all of the games, cards, and word lists (phrases and sentences too). I use a notched cursor on the green cards the first time I present them. I flash them the next day (but encourage her to read them slowly and carefully). Whatever she gets correct goes in the mastered section (we will not look at these again, as I don't want her to turn them into sight words). Anything she gets wrong or significantly pauses on immediately gets the notched card treatment again. (I cover up the sentences that are sometimes underneath the words until after she has read the word.) I flash any missed words the next day and do the same as I just mentioned. Some games I use the notched card on. Those I don't, I require her to use her finger to sound out everything left-to-right regardless of whether she knows the words. She tries to cheat sometimes, but I make her sound them out. Often she'll bobble the phonograms when blending these words slowly, so I'm convinced it's worth sounding them out. I used a notched card on all of the word lists, phrases and sentences just as described in Dancing Bears. Anything that's bobbled immediately gets the slower phonogram-by-phonogram treatment. I like the phrases/sentence because they include built-in review of previously taught phonograms. I also use the leap words, but have her sound them out as described in AAR. We do not use them as sight words.

 

First day lessons (first day a new phonogram is introduced) can be intense, but I think I'm seeing progress. I plan to proceed with the pre-described method all of the way through AAR 3 and AAR 4. I don't expect to complete the books until April-May. By then, I'll feel confident that I've made the best effort I can to remediate and fill gaps. We'll figure out what's next then.

 

PS - I'm considering buying some reading guide strips that block out text above and below at some point. I'm not sure whether they'll help when she goes back to reading books, but I notice she is not skipping/adding words anymore when reading sentences with a notched card. She's not missing endings like -s, -ed, -ly either, unless I'm too slow with moving the cursor. I can't imagine her reading with a notched card forever (seems like that would be so slow), but it's helping her now. Her accuracy is much, much better.

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=1&category=266

 

 

Thanks Heather!  That thread was very helpful.  That is actually the thread that gave me the idea to go back to word lists and more work with phonics and stop all reading.  Mabye I moved back to books too soon though.  

 

[pitterpatter]

I'm having a hard time with this too. People have suggested finding someone who is homeschool-friendly. I don't have a homeschool support network outside of the Net. I haven't done it yet, but I'm thinking about creating a thread asking for referrals in the general area we live. Would be nice if there was an outgoing thread where people could post reviews of a sort...what they liked about a specific place, what they did not. Would they recommend it or go someplace else.

 

 

For those mentioning getting him an evaluation---I am still unclear about my first steps in the process.  How do I find a good evaluator?  Do I call my pediatrician for a recommendations?  What type of credentials do I want the person to have?   I tried asking around my local home school community, and the 'titles' of the evaluators range from "certified dyslexia tutor" to an "M.D." etc.   How do I find someone good?

 

Someone local sent me to the "Dyslexia Institutes of Americas" website for evaluation information.   Would that be a good source?

 

Also seems a lot of the people giving out these 'titles' have a monetary motivation in making the diagnosis.  (A lot of them are tudors who then sell you their service.) 

 

[PeterPan]

I'm having a hard time with this too. People have suggested finding someone who is homeschool-friendly. I don't have a homeschool support network outside of the Net. I haven't done it yet, but I'm thinking about creating a thread asking for referrals in the general area we live. Would be nice if there was an outgoing thread where people could post reviews of a sort...what they liked about a specific place, what they did not. Would they recommend it or go someplace else.

When you call psychs, you'll usually end up leaving a message and they call you back.  When they call back, you'll talk about your situation.  After they've talked with you a bit, ask them upfront if they've worked with homeschoolers and if they're comfortable with it.  Some will be *enthusiastic* about homeschoolers and some are gonna hedge or downright be opposed.  That's all you can do is just talk with 'em.  

 

Our first psych was enthusiastic about homeschoolers.  Our 2nd psych also has worked with a lot of homeschoolers, but he isn't actually crazy for homeschooling and had this line about "don't you just want to be a mom?" and recommending tutors and all this junk.  I figure it's because he deals with a lot of serious LDs and that was just his experience, that sometimes you really need to ask for  help.  And it wasn't all homeschooling he was opposed to, just not being willing to bring in tutors and help when you need it.  

 

In the end, I liked them both.  If it had been a psych who was *opposed* to homeschooling, and those psychs do exist, that would have been  a problem.  They're the ones who look at social problems, behavioral problems, your suspected ASD, whatever, and tell you it's because you homeschool and to put them in school.  Not helpful.  But you just talk with the psych and ask them upfront and decide for yourself about 'em.

[Crimson Wife]

If you're looking to build a paper trail for getting accommodations, you want a licensed neuropsychologist, educational psychologist, developmental pediatrician, pediatric neurologist, or child psychiatrist.

 

An educational therapist or tutor might be able to do the assessments but legally they cannot diagnose.

[rbk mama]

If you are anywhere near Michigan, we found the University of Michigan dyslexia help center to be very thorough and helpful in their evaluation (but not cheap! :tongue_smilie: ).  I think the exact dept has changed names, but their website is http://dyslexiahelp.umich.edu/ .  Their website is a nice resource on its own. 

 

You can find a provider in your state here: https://eida.org/ida-accredited-provider-directory/

 

You've probably already seen this on the Barton website, but her videos on spotting dyslexia are very helpful.  They are worth watching.  It sounds like you're probably beyond those, though, and need more specific guidance. 

 

[Also wanted to thank the OP -and others - for being so specific in your posts -- so helpful for others in similar situations!  I have a 13yo dyslexic/dysgraphic DS, and am suspecting 7yo DD is also mildly dyslexic.... I can relate to so much of what others have mentioned here!!]

[TheAttachedMama]

I've talked to my husband about the eval thing last night.   Our current plan is to still have his eyes tested by a developmental optometrist to make sure he isn't having any tracking issues or convergence insufficiency.  (He was diagnosed with those awhile back.)   Our current apt is in March.   We feel like it won't hurt to have that type of information under our belt.

 

THEN, after we get that information, we are probably going to get him evaluated by a neuropsychologist.   I'm just doing a google search and calling around I guess.  (I'm doing this just in case he does need a paper trail at a later date for standardized testing, etc. etc.  )    In the mean time, I am going to keep working with him at home with word lists and phonics review. 

 

I realize this is blind leading the blind here, but I think this is a very real possibility. I started DD on AAR 3 at the beginning of the month. We complete one lesson per day (sometimes I move a word page to the second, lighter day). I didn't buy the readers, but we use all of the games, cards, and word lists (phrases and sentences too). I use a notched cursor on the green cards the first time I present them. I flash them the next day (but encourage her to read them slowly and carefully). Whatever she gets correct goes in the mastered section (we will not look at these again, as I don't want her to turn them into sight words). Anything she gets wrong or significantly pauses on immediately gets the notched card treatment again. (I cover up the sentences that are sometimes underneath the words until after she has read the word.) I flash any missed words the next day and do the same as I just mentioned. Some games I use the notched card on. Those I don't, I require her to use her finger to sound out everything left-to-right regardless of whether she knows the words. She tries to cheat sometimes, but I make her sound them out. Often she'll bobble the phonograms when blending these words slowly, so I'm convinced it's worth sounding them out. I used a notched card on all of the word lists, phrases and sentences just as described in Dancing Bears. Anything that's bobbled immediately gets the slower phonogram-by-phonogram treatment. I like the phrases/sentence because they include built-in review of previously taught phonograms. I also use the leap words, but have her sound them out as described in AAR. We do not use them as sight words.

 

First day lessons (first day a new phonogram is introduced) can be intense, but I think I'm seeing progress. I plan to proceed with the pre-described method all of the way through AAR 3 and AAR 4. I don't expect to complete the books until April-May. By then, I'll feel confident that I've made the best effort I can to remediate and fill gaps. We'll figure out what's next then.

 

PS - I'm considering buying some reading guide strips that block out text above and below at some point. I'm not sure whether they'll help when she goes back to reading books, but I notice she is not skipping/adding words anymore when reading sentences with a notched card. She's not missing endings like -s, -ed, -ly either, unless I'm too slow with moving the cursor. I can't imagine her reading with a notched card forever (seems like that would be so slow), but it's helping her now. Her accuracy is much, much better.

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=1&category=266

:)

It is like you are reading my mind because I am doing nearly the EXACT same thing with AAR.   EXACT.  

 

My son has this FREAKY good memory.  He can remember the phonograms after only seeing/hearing them once....and he retains it.   He is also pretty good at doing various phonetic manipulations in words.     BUT, he still struggles with reading even though he knows the sounds the words make.   Knowing the sounds isn't the total answer with him.  There is something else going on. Just this morning, he read the word 'west' as "sweet" because he switched the order of the letters around while reading.  With the tiles, being able to TOUCH them seems to help him a lot.  (And I hate those stupid tiles! But they really seem to help him.)

And the DB cursor seems to help him a lot too because it re-enforces the order he needs to say the sounds. 

 

And, I was even looking at those exact same reading strip guides on rainbow resources.  ;)   We may 'graduate' to those eventually after the cursor. 

 

Also, thank you for starting your previous thread.   It was so, so, so helpful to read.  I would love it if you would keep updating with how things are going and what you are finding effective.   I will do the same!!

[PeterPan]

Sounds like a plan!  The neuropsych will have a wait, so you might like to find one and get the appt made now.  Then you just if vision takes care of it entirely.  :)

[ElizabethB]

I would try the dyslexie font as well as all uppercase and see if either of those help, try both in various font sizes.

 

It does sound like some things my students with underlying vision problems do, the underlying vision problem make guessing easier than sounding out the word even if phonics was well taught.

 

Try similar word lists and see if accuracy and WPM speed are different with the different fonts and font sizes.

 

My student with an underlying vision problem read 10 WPM faster with 36 point font than 12 point font.  Also, she was more accurate with dyslexie font and more accurate with a blue overlay.  She also could read faster and more accurately with this, best with blue but green also helped:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Guided-Reading-Strips-Colored-Overlays/dp/B00E4U48XM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424760145&sr=8-1&keywords=reading+guide

 

The things on my how to tutor page helped as well even before therapy, over learning the basics helps reduce guessing as well, and most students with vision problems have trouble dividing syllables on their own unless they have a lot of practice, the syllable division exercises and something like Megawords for more syllable division practice are helpful.

 

http://thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

[TheAttachedMama]

Thank you so much ElizabethB for replying.   I have been reading all of your old posts, so I am so thankful for a personal reply from you regarding my own problem.   Your expertise is invaluable....and I am very grateful for it.  

 

ETA:  What is the dyslexia font? 

I would try the dyslexie font as well as all uppercase and see if either of those help, try both in various font sizes.

 

It does sound like some things my students with underlying vision problems do, the underlying vision problem make guessing easier than sounding out the word even if phonics was well taught.

 

Try similar word lists and see if accuracy and WPM speed are different with the different fonts and font sizes.

 

My student with an underlying vision problem read 10 WPM faster with 36 point font than 12 point font.  Also, she was more accurate with dyslexie font and more accurate with a blue overlay.  She also could read faster and more accurately with this, best with blue but green also helped:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Guided-Reading-Strips-Colored-Overlays/dp/B00E4U48XM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424760145&sr=8-1&keywords=reading+guide

 

The things on my how to tutor page helped as well even before therapy, over learning the basics helps reduce guessing as well, and most students with vision problems have trouble dividing syllables on their own unless they have a lot of practice, the syllable division exercises and something like Megawords for more syllable division practice are helpful.

 

http://thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html