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help me advise a mom who needs to homeschool but doesn't think she can


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She has homeschooled before (kids are currently in school) but she is going to need to homeschool next year because they can no longer afford private school and public is not an option.  She will have 2 middle schoolers and one high school age child.  These kids fight like cats and dogs and mom doesn't like to be around them.  They complain about school until they wear her down.  It sounds to me like she needs to change herself and work on her kids attitude but they is sometimes easier said than done.  I am going to recommend some outside accountability like co-ops or something because I have found older kids do well with that.  She seems quite down about it all, and I feel for her. 

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Sometimes, not always but sometimes, I end up disagreeing when a person insists that "public school is not an option. " With only this sparse information to go on, my thoughts are that if intense family therapy does not effect a serious overhaul of everyone's attitudes and behaviors, homeschooling would be a serious mistake for this family.

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Family counseling.  Before attempting homeschooling.  If she already has a sense of dread and the kids are not excited about it this is not going to work well.  Middle School and High School are challenging levels to deal with.  If she isn't excited and they aren't either, and the kids don't get along, it could turn into a total nightmare.

 

On the other hand, if the kids are all really pumped about homeschooling, then maybe on-line classes and co-ops might keep them moving forward and her not be so down about the whole thing.  They should still do family counseling, though, and make sure everyone is on the same page with expectations and hopefully develop a healthier family dynamic.

 

I agree with Orthodox6, though, public school isn't automatically evil.  It can actually be an excellent option or at least certainly very workable.  Is the area just really, really bad?  Or does she have a strong philosophical/religious reason for avoiding ps?  Hard to tell from your post, OP.  I realize that there ARE some ps systems that are just so abysmal I would never consider putting my kids in.  Has she actually sat in on classes in the local ps?  Talked with other parents (that aren't biased against ps in general?).

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I have a hard time believing that anyone that "doesn't like to be around her kids", "doesn't think she can homeschool", and "gets worn down by their complaining about school" (not direct quotes, but the jist of what you are saying about this mom) should be encouraged to homeschool. I mean, it's hard enough to homeschool when you are totally jazzed about it. This IS hard. The truth IS that not everyone can/should do it. So, I would honestly advise her to look into public school.

 

Of course, I'm not sure what "religious conviction about not using public schools" means. It could be an absolute NO GO like a religion that forbids public school attendance or public schools that do not allow her children to observe religious practices important to them. Those situations exist, so I don't want to discount the possibility. But usually it just means a vague feeling that if they were to homeschool they would be able to fit in bible study easier, or pressure from a largely homeschooling religious peer-group, or fear about common core being a conspiracy to create atheists. Touring a public school, sitting in on a class, and talking to real public school families might ease that. Had she ever gone through those steps before deciding public wasn't an option?

 

Unless the kids want to homeschool strongly enough to change their attitudes 100%, and be not only greatly responsible for their studies but also pleasant to each other while doing it. You mentioned they WANT to come back home, and If you think that desire to homeschool, and their self-wills, are strong enough to change their attitudes, and depending on moms personal energy level at the moment to help them along with that, she may be able to do a trial period at home with them. But family dynamics are very, very, hard to change. They would gave to be pretty committed. And family counciling would be a really good idea to give them the tools to change.

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She has a religious conviction about not using public schools.  All of the children would like to homeschool again.  It sounds like their bickering with each other and complaining bother her more than the kids. 

 

If you feel moved to advise her, I'd start there. You might say that God doesn't want her to tear down whatever relationship they have by being in a position she resents. Or God doesn't want her kids to be afraid to live their faith in public. Or whatever you can think of that God might say. The point is, if you feel like you have to help her out (which is awkward and invasive imo, unless she's asking, and you haven't implied she is), I'd help her embrace the most practical option - the one that's going to serve her family best.

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The basic problems is she doesn't like to hear the kids fight and complain. Nothing major, but it gets on her nerves.

Noise gets me down but I am predominantly sensory avoiding. How independent are her kids?

 

I could put my boys in different rooms for schoolwork and that cut down the noise a lot. We could spend the day at the library studying. My boys use separate tables and library is too quiet to talk :)

Could she hire a tutor for those subjects her kids might give her the most whine/rebellion?

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The basic problems is she doesn't like to hear the kids fight and complain. Nothing major, but it gets on her nerves.

Argh, I can't seem to multi-quote!

 

Above you wrote that the kids " fight like cats and dogs " and " complain about school until they wear her down". I'm not certain why you'd not consider these issues as major. It seems that very little schooling will happen in the circumstances that you describe.

 

As others have said, encourage them to try family counseling and to investigate the local public schools.

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She has asked my advice and I am quoting they fight like cats and dogs but nothing major.  I did ask her; she said that one will tease the other or do something that irritates the other and they start name calling, yelling, tattling, etc.  Nothing major to her she said is physically fighting or cussing etc, although once in a while they will smack each other.  She said she really feels like it is her attitude that is affecting everyone else and that minor things set her off which feeds the kids attitude.  I'm thinking she might need her own counseling to help herself (maybe a bit of depression involved)

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I assume she will have a decent budget because they are not paying private school tuition. She should look at the budget carefully to work into it stress relief for her. 

 

A cleaning service, a gym membership, a weekly trip to the coffee shop etc. whatever she can "pay" herself with to make it a little less stressful. 

 

I would budget to upgrade internet and get laptops so if they are doing online schools there is not bickering over that. 

 

I would also divide and conquer. One kid in one room. She should start looking at her house now to plan for that. She should also plan outings to get the kids out of the house at least one or two at a time; it breaks up the boring day. 

 

She should invest in good headphones and turn up good tunes when the whining gets intense!

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She has homeschooled before (kids are currently in school) but she is going to need to homeschool next year because they can no longer afford private school and public is not an option.  She will have 2 middle schoolers and one high school age child.  These kids fight like cats and dogs and mom doesn't like to be around them.  They complain about school until they wear her down.  It sounds to me like she needs to change herself and work on her kids attitude but they is sometimes easier said than done.  I am going to recommend some outside accountability like co-ops or something because I have found older kids do well with that.  She seems quite down about it all, and I feel for her. 

 

Counseling is a good idea.

 

Taking at face value that public school is not an option for religious reasons, though it's pretty hard to imagine what brand of Christianity would have this as not an option versus not the preferred delivery of content to my kids but I can't afford better:

 

1. Outsource at least some of the work to tutors.

 

2. Have the kids do their work in separate rooms until they are done, then she grades it.

 

3. Make the kids each take a sport to get their energy out, which involves a minimum of 2 hours per day of practice, all simultaneous, so she can have alone time before dinner.

 

4. Maybe hiring another homeschooling mom would be cheaper than private school.

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Let's assume that she is going ahead with this regardless, (WILL NOT consider public school) and then the question is how best to support her in her choice she's already made.

 

Okay.

I do think counselling for her would be very, very valuable.

I think some parenting education for her would be valuable.  To be honest, I'm a little worried to hear that two middle-schoolers and a high-schooler bicker more than my 7, 5 and 2.  I'm not sure if I should be terrified about what's coming for us, or if she's lacking some coping skills.  The book "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk" might be helpful for her.  Also, by the same authors, the book "Siblings Without Rivalry."  I'm pretty sure this one is critical for her.  Immediately.  The book "How to Have a New Kid by Friday" by Kevin Leman might also be a good place for her to start.   Oh, and the book "Boundaries" for her.  I'm guessing that her religious conviction is Christian?  If it's a different religion, Boundaries may not sit well.

 

And, I have a suggestion for curriculum to do with her kids, especially given that she's got budget now that she doesn't have tuition: "The Peacemaker" by Ken Sande.  Or, depending, she could opt for "The Young Peacemaker" by Corlette Sande.  It's on Biblical conflict resolution, and it sounds like it might be a useful skillset for her children to have in the coming years.

 

Some encouragement to set family expectations about how they treat one another is going to be important.  Does she have those skills?  If not, direct her in where to go learn them.  At those ages, she could call a family meeting, set out the problems with the family dynamics, and ask the kids to problem-solve it.  And then hold them to it.

 

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OP, I see from your blog that you sent your dc to school after hsing. Perhaps you could be helpful to your friend by discussing pros and cons. Perhaps have her read your book.

 

It sounds as though this woman's family had already decided to hs and you are trying to support her. But it might be more supportive to show her that there can be choices.

 

I agree with all the suggestions for counseling and visiting the ps.

 

If this is a strongly patriarchal situation, I would steer clear, unless that was my particular background too.

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I've been thinking about this thread all day, with such a sinking feeling of dread for this woman.

 

My focus would be in helping her see that she has rights, too. What is this "she has to homeschool." She doesn't have to put that on herself or allow her husband to put it on her, either.

 

If she has somehow to managed to raise children who do not like each other, and she doesn't even like them, that's bad. She loses her Mother of the Year trophy and they all need help. But mothers are imperfect. Whatever the family's view of school, it feels as if she's being punished. She "must" homeschool, even though she doesn't want to and it's going to royally suck. Why is her husband allowing this? Why does she not see herself as deserving a better life than to be imprisoned at home with hateful children, even her own?

 

I agree with Alessandra that if they have a legalistic situation with a patriarchy-type dad in charge (miserable mom, kids constantly bickering with each other and challenging parents) you might want to extricate yourself from this conversation with her. Too many paradigms to address at once, yet they are all connected.

 

Your testimony of sending your own dc to school goes farthest in this scenario, probably. You believe(d) in homeschooling, your children and family needed something else, nobody exploded or started doing drugs...good for her to know.

 

We all have options. I say I am homeschooling against my will sometimes, because our local public schools stink and I can't afford private schools, but I'm not truly being forced to do anything. I'm just not getting my way in some respects, but I doggedly continue because it's what I really believe and really want. She just as doggedly does NOT want to, so somebody should say, "You don't have to homeschool."

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She knows my story, and it is actually one reason she put her children into private school, but now they can't afford it.  (BTW, mine go to private school as well, but I am not against public school)  I have tried to stress the importance of relationship with her children above all. 

I also don't think it is completely abnormal for these ages kids to bicker.  I have kids ages 9 to 18 at home, and they can really get into it a lot. 

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I would hesitate to steer her in any direction. She feels pushed into HSing. She doesn't need to feel pushed out of it. She NEEDS to be pushed into making her own decision based upon what she knows about her own family and what is best for all, not any one member.

 

Help her talk through all of her options.  What would PS look like *if* they did go?  Could she supplement the income to make the private school doable again? If they homeschool, what sorts of boundaries need to be laid in order to have a peaceful home?  Would her dh help defend those boundaries?  

 

 

There are many options. Maybe an online program would help keep the kids accountable to someone besides mom, thus reducing a certain amount of arguing/whining with mom. Maybe separating the kids during the day will help?  Maybe one or two kids go to school?  Could they afford to send one to private? It ain't about doing the same thing for each kid...it's about how to arrange this puzzle so that each family member is respected and cared for.

 

 

You should not try to convince her one way or another.  There are probably factors that she isn't telling you.  It would help her to talk out ALL of the possibilities, knowing they are all OK (no wrong choice here!), and have someone support her in whatever she decides.

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:iagree:

 

I think they need to set up a summer Getting Along camp before the school year starts, or she'll be tearing her hair out.

 

Oh, do tell!  How would one go about this?  I think most families could use a refresher now and again.

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Has she contacted the school to ask if her family can be eligible for financial assistance?

 

Yes.  They are on scholarships now.  She could go back to work part time (if they make too much money they will be bumped from scholarship, but she doesn't have the education to make enough money to pay full tuition) to help.  She also said to me that she wants to get a handle on her kids attitudes and behaviors even if they were to stay in school because they do still live together and will have a whole summer together.

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Oh, do tell!  How would one go about this?  I think most families could use a refresher now and again.

 

Having been at school, they now see themselves as belonging to different classes; and amongst themselves, they are probably getting some power or self-esteem with the put-downs and winning. So anything she can do that teaches them and then rewards them for teamwork and kindness should lead to improvement.

 

She knows them best--what would they enjoy? I would think she might want to include...

  • a daily group effort to memorize Bible verses on peacemaking and loving one another;
  • a written agreement that covers how they're going to treat each other, perhaps as part of a family mission statement--maybe even made into one of those cute chalkboard thingies you see on Pinterest--posted prominently in the house;
  • cooking a "family favorite" favorite dessert together;
  • assigning everyone a "secret buddy" to do three nice things for the person;
  • field-day type team-building activities (neighborhood scavenger hunt? three-legged races? etc.)--upper elementary and middle schoolers often like this a lot;
  • group evaluations for chores like cleaning up after dinner (practice nicely choosing who does what and giving one another assistance and feedback);
  • developing a procedure to handle disagreements civilly, and for preventing them in the first place (e.g., My aunt with twins had a food-sharing rule: one cuts, the other chooses);
  • taking a silly family picture (or 10) and then a serious/traditional one;
  • a non-competitive board game (for younger kids, Hi-Ho Cherry-O against the bird; Google for others);
  • connections to the family beyond the household, such as Skyping with or writing letters to  grandparents to ask for suggestions for family harmony;
  • setting up a coin jar--maybe name-calling costs 20% of your allowance or something--with a charity to donate it to when it's full, or some other immediate consequence for whatever bugs her the most.

A week or two of weekday mornings like this, maybe finished with a cookout to celebrate, might improve the tone so that she is not dreading getting them seated at the same table to work. The kids might also have their own ideas to add.

 

At our house, June is Good Habits month, and everybody has something to work on. We really try not to make it feel punitive. (With one child, we don't have squabbling; a lot of the specific suggestions above come from my work with other groups of kids.)

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What is the least expensive, acceptable quality online or umbrella program (as in the high school student can consider college as a choice after using the program)?  Could/would they get along with a program if it is religion-affiliated?  Don't know whether religious or non-religious might cost less.  She then could work part-time, depending upon the hours and upon the reliability of the children (who don't sound too reliable at this point).

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I've been thinking about this thread all day, with such a sinking feeling of dread for this woman.

 

My focus would be in helping her see that she has rights, too. What is this "she has to homeschool." She doesn't have to put that on herself or allow her husband to put it on her, either.

 

 

I read your entire reply, but wanted to comment on this. 

 

I see a lot of assuming in the thread, that because mom said "religious convictions" it points to the husband wanting/making her do this. I do want to throw out there that unless the OP knows her very well, the mom may be saying this for other reasons.

I've been known to throw out the "religious conviction" card myself... when, in reality, our decision to homeschool has little to do with that. The real reasons why public/private schools aren't an option for us, with two of our three kids, are entirely too complex and personal for me to want to get into often, or at all, with people I know in real life.

 

OP, I'm going to answer your thread at face value and try not to read into, too much, to any comments your friend has given directly. I'm going to assume that this much is true: she absolutely has to homeschool and there are no other valid option for her family. Reasons really do not matter to me - family dynamics are complex enough without internet people trying to understand those anonymous dynamics going on only one or two vague comments directly from the source.

Homeschooling wasn't something I wanted to do with my oldest. Still isn't, really. Long ago, however, I decided that I needed to practice what I preach. I am fond of telling my daughter that while we can't always control WHAT happens in our lives, we ALWAYS have the ability to control, on some level, how we feel about those things, or at least how we react to those things in our life that are seemingly out of our control. 

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Oh, do tell!  How would one go about this?  I think most families could use a refresher now and again.

 

You reconnect. Have a "staycation" (vacation at home). Put fun things on the agenda, plan experiences that are enjoyable, take the time to wander, get lost, explore, find your groove. With kids, that means take the time to help others be patient, or ideally learn to appreciate another's groove. Take the time to help the kids identify and solve conflicts the moment they arise. Be part of the same team in all things. Family X goes to see a ballgame. Family X goes camping for the weekend. Family X goes to the city to see how they mint coins. Family X digs weeds in the garden (because that's mom's groove, until that is, they get distracted with collecting bugs, digging for treasures, or compiling a time capsule). It's work, it's not vacation for mom. She's got to be on-call 24/7 to reinforce a different kind of relationship - one based on mutual affection and enjoyment being with each other rather than one based on roles in the family.

 

We did this years ago and it worked out so well we still do it. We just call it "unschooling" and our field trips have been replaced by personal research projects. It's not easy though. If mom wants it to work well, she may have to rethink her own role in the family, as well as the value of her existent family dynamic. Making these paradigm shifts are hard because we're naturally blind to certain things, certain ideas, and sometimes those are the very things that would work best. But perhaps she can do it for a summer, and that reconnection would be good for them all anyway.

 

Family is good. It should be valued. I think many of us tend to forget that until we can't have it.

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It is easy to say she needs to change herself. And maybe she does. But, all my children get along, except that one (my daughter) who got along with none of the others. She caused constant fights here. Now that she is gone, there is so much peace. Maybe it is one of her children causing issues? It is so complex.

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I read your entire reply, but wanted to comment on this.

 

I see a lot of assuming in the thread, that because mom said "religious convictions" it points to the husband wanting/making her do this. I do want to throw out there that unless the OP knows her very well, the mom may be saying this for other reasons.

I've been known to throw out the "religious conviction" card myself... when, in reality, our decision to homeschool has little to do with that. The real reasons why public/private schools aren't an option for us, with two of our three kids, are entirely too complex and personal for me to want to get into often, or at all, with people I know in real life.

 

OP, I'm going to answer your thread at face value and try not to read into, too much, to any comments your friend has given directly. I'm going to assume that this much is true: she absolutely has to homeschool and there are no other valid option for her family. Reasons really do not matter to me - family dynamics are complex enough without internet people trying to understand those anonymous dynamics going on only one or two vague comments directly from the source.

Homeschooling wasn't something I wanted to do with my oldest. Still isn't, really. Long ago, however, I decided that I needed to practice what I preach. I am fond of telling my daughter that while we can't always control WHAT happens in our lives, we ALWAYS have the ability to control, on some level, how we feel about those things, or at least how we react to those things in our life that are seemingly out of our control.

I don't assume it's the husband. I said she shouldn't feel she has to put it on herself, first, or let him... I put her first because I totally agree with you that most homeschool moms are doing what we want to do, however we explain it to others.

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It is not her husband. Just just has strong beliefs about not sending them to public school. It was even a stretch to send them to private school. Thanks for the ideas.

I still think counseling, even for her own sake, is a good idea. A good counselor can help someone assess his or her problems and find a personal solution. The kids, as well, may benefit from a third-party's assistance in managing relationships.

 

My oldest is a pre-teen, but I don't think it's unusual for older teens to bicker and fight with each other and parents. They are still trying to find their 'adult' self which means testing boundaries and questioning authority.

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Given the updates. she really needs help wrangling the kids (teens). She wants to homeschool but finds it miserable b/c the kids misbehave,  Is that right?

 

 

What does she do when the kids act up?

 

What does dad do when the kids act up?

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I haven't read the thread, but for the behavior problems, she could implement a token system. Each day they get three tokens. Anytime there is sass or nonsense, she puts out her hand and asks for a token, which is to be handed over immediately without discussion or lecturing. Three strikes, you're out. Whatever out is - it could mean you talk to your dad when he comes home, no screen time or loss of other privileges, more chores, whatever. But the system works. It sounds like a kindergarten system, I know, but it's so helpful for these ages. I used it for a few months when my son was giving me attitude. It gave us accountability since he answered to his dad and it prevented me from letting go of my emotions when he would give me attitude. At the time, direction or corrections from me seemed to just grate on his nerves, but his dad helped him to understand that even though he's growing up into a man, I am still his mama and deserve respect. It really helped our relationship.

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I think homeschooling is hard enough when you WANT to do it, I think it would be a recipe for disaster if she went into it with dread. Grumbling, flighting teens and tweens - which sound like they don't respect her authority at all - then no - I would not advise her to homeschool. At all. Ever.

 

Perhaps she could pull a couple from private school and leave some.

 

Or get a job at the school if possible.

 

Or find a cheaper private school.

 

Or, public school. It sounds like the tone of their home is a bit of a mess, and unless something drastically changed homeschooling wouldn't be a good, healthy fit. Opposition or not - sometimes you have to have to pick something and they seem to be out of options.

 

But, unless something drastically changed, I would NOT advise her to homeschool.

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