fastforward Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm thinking about bringing my 12 year old back home after 2 years of private school. One reason why she went to private school after being HSed up until 6th grade was because I was not meeting her needs in science, and to a lesser extent in math. I'm tentatively thinking of a high school plan, but finding that I'll need to outsource most of the classes and I'm wondering if it might be better to keep her in a private school. Has anyone faced this dilemma and have some wisdom to share? My specific worries right now are that college level writing and the feedback from peers won't be met, that a rigorous, interactive, lab-based science will be hard to find, and that if I find high quality classes, it will be just as expensive as the private school bill we incurred with some of the headaches that private school has brought to my daughter and our family. Thanks in advance if you have advice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I know people who outsource everything, using online and local providers. A friend of mine has her kids taking 22 online classes total. I like the flexibility of outsourcing some and doing the rest myself. Juggling the time slots and deadlines of a full schedule of outsourcing would drive me crazy, but I realize that parents who send their kids to the classroom are already doing this to some extent. I outsource history/lit for the discussion and a teacher who knows those subjects better than I do, and we outsource foreign languages because I don't have the time to function at the level I want. We also do dual enrollment for IT and foreign languages. I'm comfortable doing the rest myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you homeschool and outsource, you get to pick each of the providers. It is an a la carte menu. With a private school, you will get some wonderful teachers you would have picked, but you also will get some whose instruction is not worth crossing the street. I had the same thoughts as you. My freshman needed to get out of my basement this year, so we enrolled her in a small Christian high school. The quality of the instruction is all over the place. Some (a couple) of her teachers seem good; several are either unengaged or incompetent. For social reasons, I am glad we sent her to school this year, but it kills me to be paying tuition for bad teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you homeschool and outsource, you get to pick each of the providers. It is an a la carte menu. With a private school, you will get some wonderful teachers you would have picked, but you also will get some whose instruction is not worth crossing the street. I had the same thoughts as you. My freshman needed to get out of my basement this year, so we enrolled her in a small Christian high school. The quality of the instruction is all over the place. Some (a couple) of her teachers seem good; several are either unengaged or incompetent. For social reasons, I am glad we sent her to school this year, but it kills me to be paying tuition for bad teaching. my son goes to a public charter which I pay taxes for and it is the same, all over the place - welcome to the world of after-schooling (much of it actaully gets done during summer break) - saving the money for his college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (This is a bit embarrassing to admit because even I know it's over the top, but it is what works for us): T is enrolled in: Landry Academy English IV which uses MCT and Lightning Lit 8 materials (we used to do MCT at home) Writing With Skill 1 at WTM Academy American History using Joy Hakim's History of US Complete Edition over 2 years with Guinevere's Gifted Group (G3 Online) Biomes of the World (Athena's Advanced Academy) Ancient Greeks (Currclick -- 4 Little Penguins) Spanish 2 at Landry Academy Latin 1 at Landry Academy At-Your-Own-Pace Algebra 1 at Virtual Homeschool Group UC Scout's at-your-own-pace Biology 1 Locally sourced robotics and theater fun classes. Violin and voice lessons She also does a local choir class, church choir, tennis with a team, speed roller skating with a team and a different theater group in the evening. I do supervise/teach the at-your-own-pace classes and I do keep a planner with all classes and all assignments for T. I am the one who watches the clock and tells her to log in (or I set the kitchen timer if I have to go out). I think that level of support will fade over the next 2 years until she keeps her own planner and sets her own alarms (but she's 11 and still too spacey to do this herself). She's very busy but she does like this level of activity. When she's had a less set schedule, she complains about being bored. We chose this route this year because she loves outside classes, I found relatively inexpensive options and we both don't mind a packed schedule. We don't have any option geared to gifted or advanced kids in driving distance that works with GW's absolutely non-negotiable school schedule. So this is what we came up with. There are some low cost options available for outside classes. Landry is very, very inexpensive but only if you buy a year in advance. This is a high risk strategy for a first time user, but once you're comfortable buying in advance you can pay as little as $70 for a semester. Landry is very upfront about their Evangelical world view. That affects some classes more than others and you may or may not be able to use a particular class. You need to read the syllabus and know the textbook they use before you sign up. CurrClick is also very reasonable, but you have to do even more due diligence about the classes you sign up for. The other providers I listed charge about $450/year for the class, sometime that rate is their early registration price. You may need to buy books, although sometimes they use online resources or your library will have them. UC Scout is $40/year. VHSG is free. All in all, I paid about 1/2 the tuition of our local Catholic school for all of T's academic classes (including robotics/theater and choir class but not including classes in the evening and private music lessons). If you think this path will work for you, go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For us, the flexibility of outsourcing some and teaching some things at home is a clear winner. However, I don't feel the need to outsource a lot and that could make a big difference. I love teaching science. I love doing labs. Dh was just asking me this weekend if the lab in our basement would go away when the kids graduate. :lol: I think you have to decide how much you are willing to teach and let your kids do independently. We choose each year what subjects are going to be more and less intense, where the focus will lie. We wouldn't have this control in a private school. You may not want that control. We don't spend outrageous amounts of money on homeschooling. Certainly FAR, FAR less than we would spend on a cheap private school. Even our most expensive years with dual enrollment or online APs have not come close to the price of a private school and have offered a quality education with greater flexibility. I think you have to decide how much you would outsource, and then decide if there a benefit. Benefits may include cost, flexibility, time together as a family, ability to direct your students path. Weight those against the things that are negatives to you. College prep writing instruction and feedback from peers is definitely available to homeschoolers in online classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 What state do u live in? In pa they have to let us participate in extracurriculars but our school district actually allows us to take classes. For my 17 year old she takes band and English at the school and she does TT for math. We do gov and german at home and she is taking dual enrollment at local college - one course each semester. Outsourcing what u need to and doing what u love at home is the way to go when it comes to high school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 We don't spend outrageous amounts of money on homeschooling. Certainly FAR, FAR less than we would spend on a cheap private school. Even our most expensive years with dual enrollment or online APs have not come close to the price of a private school and have offered a quality education with greater flexibility. I agree. Locally the tuition, books, and fees for private school runs $8000-30,000 locally. All of them also have activity fees for any sports or clubs. The lower end is an established Christian school that would not meet my needs academically. To get what I want, we'd be on the higher end if that was affordable (which it isn't). For 2014-2015 I budgeted $2000 for both teens -- that includes outside/online/dual enrollment classes and books. We went a few hundred over that with an expensive college book/online code and having to purchase a few more books than I expected. Next year I'll have only one, and it will be more like $1500 for one kid because we're outsourcing more than I have in the past, but I'm still doing math, science, and health at home using materials I already have. The following year will be less, probably $1000. So still far less than private school with some flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm thinking about bringing my 12 year old back home after 2 years of private school. One reason why she went to private school after being HSed up until 6th grade was because I was not meeting her needs in science, and to a lesser extent in math. I'm tentatively thinking of a high school plan, but finding that I'll need to outsource most of the classes and I'm wondering if it might be better to keep her in a private school. Has anyone faced this dilemma and have some wisdom to share? My specific worries right now are that college level writing and the feedback from peers won't be met, that a rigorous, interactive, lab-based science will be hard to find, and that if I find high quality classes, it will be just as expensive as the private school bill we incurred with some of the headaches that private school has brought to my daughter and our family. Thanks in advance if you have advice. :) "Feedback from peers"...I don't understand why that is important. All you really said is that you think your dd needs help with math and science...only two classes. Most homeschoolers find themselves capable of teaching everything else at home. And you might be overestimating the need for "college-level writing" before high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I know people who outsource everything, using online and local providers. A friend of mine has her kids taking 22 online classes total. lf. Twenty-two classes in the same school year? Calculating the cost of tuition and books for that crosses my eyeballs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Twenty-two classes in the same school year? Calculating the cost of tuition and books for that crosses my eyeballs! Yes, but for multiple kids, it's a lot cheaper than private school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We haven't gone the private school route, but I would hazard a guess that outsourcing classes might well be cheaper and less aggravating than dealing with the constant pressure to volunteer/donate/pay for some special thing or activity that can come with private schools, not to mention potential for needing to buy uniforms or to "keep up with the Jones" in terms of activities, clothes, etc. We outsource a lot, but that's because I have been fortunate enough to find very low-cost options that still give us what we are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We outsource. I cannot be everywhere at once! I have five kids and right now we juggle 15 outside classes/tutors among the four oldest. We spend about a third of what it would cost to send them to the local private school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We outsource far more than I had expected because I can no longer keep up with advanced work in nearly every subject. Also, one of my son's favorite parts of his outsourced classes has been the discussions with classmates. It is still cheaper and more flexible for us than a private school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thank you for all of the replies. Another reason that I sent her to school was because things weren't getting done because I was mentally burned out. I have 2 other children who are still at home with me, but I am far more relaxed with them. I started becoming too relaxed with my 12 year old and my accountability was terrible. An answer to that was to send her to school, but only private school. I know myself so I'll have to rely on outsourcing to keep my daughter and I honest, and to make sure she is reaching our shared goals. Private school has been pretty good, but it isn't perfect. The first year went quite smoothly. Her main issue was adjusting socially, but academically, she wasn't really challenged much. This year has been the year of "this is how we are, get used to it" from the school. She has one teacher who probably should have retired 5 years ago, and my daughter will likely have to endure this person next year, which is stressful for both her and us. The school's tuition is stretching us very thin during a time when we are entertaining the option of a move and having to pay the increased cost of my other children's activities. It definitely would help us to have that money back in our hands right now. Public school is not something we are willing to consider. It also doesn't help that I still have a homeschooling mentality and the school doesn't see that as the great thing it is. :-D On a recent trip to visit the area where we want to move, I took my daughter out of school for a week and I naturally incorporated learning into our travels. I tried to work with my daughter's teachers on how to maximize her academics while she was out in the "world's classroom", and I got crickets. Shouldn't have been surprising, but it became crystal clear that they are only concerned with what *they* teach her, not her overall success as a learner. Duh, that's my job, but silly me was thinking of their well-touted partnership. In my heart, I think she would be much more challenged at home, as she is mostly coasting by at school earning great grades but not delving deeper, if that makes sense. We just don't have the science resources she craves like materials and having a lab partner, even if that lab partner isn't doing their share of the work. (She just likes the interaction.) We don't have the peer group in our current area, and we would have to build it up in our new place where we know no one at all. We don't have that daily escape that seems to help her sometimes when she has had the 10th fight of the day with her youngest sister. Most of all, what if homeschooling ultimately fails her and she regrets our educational choices for her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 In the end, there isn't a perfect solution (for any of us!) As someone with older teens/young adults, I can assure you that no matter what route you choose, there will be things that occur in the future that make you "what if" yourself later. :-) It sounds like you are thinking through the pros and cons...I hope you can find a solution that works for you. I've got one in public school (5th grade) this year. My first time to put a kid in public elementary. Yeah, the education is just okay, though the grades are great. But she's happy. At this point, that is working for me. :-) I've got a homeschooled high school junior as well, and I am definitely outsourcing. She's certainly well-prepared academically; I wouldn't say that the lack of a classroom lab has held her back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 In the end, there isn't a perfect solution (for any of us!) As someone with older teens/young adults, I can assure you that no matter what route you choose, there will be things that occur in the future that make you "what if" yourself later. :-) It sounds like you are thinking through the pros and cons...I hope you can find a solution that works for you. I've got one in public school (5th grade) this year. My first time to put a kid in public elementary. Yeah, the education is just okay, though the grades are great. But she's happy. At this point, that is working for me. :-) I've got a homeschooled high school junior as well, and I am definitely outsourcing. She's certainly well-prepared academically; I wouldn't say that the lack of a classroom lab has held her back. I definitely don't think the lack of the lab will hold her back, necessarily, but as a science focused child, it would certainly be a great aid in our learning toolbox. Also, after she has experienced it, I think it might be hard for her to go back to not having the access to the fancy microscopes and equipment that she has worked with at the school. Once she gets to 10th grade and dual enrollment because a possibility, this goes out of the window, but it's still something I think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 This year has been the year of "this is how we are, get used to it" from the school. I'm going to go out on a very strong limb here and say that this was true last year, as well; and it will be true next year and the next. When I questioned an English teacher because she is doing all grading and no teaching, the teacher suggested that I needed to come in for a meeting with her and the head of the English department so that they could tell me "what you can expect from our department for the rest of X's time in our school." Yeah-- they just want to tell me what they are going to do and how I need to readjust my expectations; they absolutely will not entertain the possibility that I might be right. As for having a homeschool approach, I get that as well; it has certainly been an issue for me with this child and this school. I have homeschooled high school classes, APs and everything--I have a 100% "5" rate in my classroom, so educating a child is not a mystery to me. I've seen behind the curtain, I always say, and perhaps the teachers and administration pick up on my "what you do doesn't scare me" mentality. I don't bow and scrape and defer; I question instead. And that has not made me very popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Depending on where you live may find a university model school or a place for her to go take classes. They offer all the social events a teen would want and can attract outstanding teachers. We have many teachers who are also teaching college classes, and others who are experts in their field but prefer working with motivated kids. Of course these classes ususally cost a little more, but it is nothing compared to private school tuition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Our situation was different, in that we had been homeschooling all along. However, there came a point with my son at which the question came down to brick-and-mortar school or full-time outsourcing. After a lot of discussion, we opted for the outsourcing. Budget was a huge concern for us either way. It would have been necessary for me to return to work full time and for us to devote my entire salary (given that I don't make a lot after 20 years out of the workforce) to paying tuition if we had decided to try private school. We also could not afford to pay full freight for a whole bunch of online classes and still have me home and available to supervise, making sure the work was actually getting done. We already knew that my son could take classes through Florida Virtual School for free. He'd taken one or two a year for the past few years. So, the initial plan was to just enroll him in all of his classes through FLVS. However, I wasn't sure the math and science classes would be good fits for him. We ended up deciding to sign him up for chemistry and algebra II through ALEKS.com. I had already planned labs to go with the chemistry class I had designed, and we just required that my son complete a certain number of those or have me approve alternate/substitute activities. It was an adjustment for all of us, but it worked out. Looking back, I think if we had been able to find the absolutely right fit in terms of private school and had been able to afford the tuition, it might have been good, too. But having my son at home allowed him the scheduling flexibility to do things he would not have been able to manage if he had been required to be in a classroom seven hours a day and do homework and the other things that being in school requires. Doing his classes online allowed him time and flexibility to log a lot of community service hours and throw himself into dancing. When an interesting project/volunteer opportunity came up at the science museum or the theatre, he had daytime availability and could go participate. When his dance studio needed an assistant teacher for the elementary tap classes that met in the early afternoon before the other high schoolers could get there, he was available to take that gig. Working at him own pace and/or making up assignments evenings and weekends when he had time, he could arrange his schedule to make room for the 15-20 hours a week he wanted to spend at the dance studio. It was the right choice for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We just don't have the science resources she craves like materials and having a lab partner, even if that lab partner isn't doing their share of the work. (She just likes the interaction.) We don't have the peer group in our current area, and we would have to build it up in our new place where we know no one at all. We don't have that daily escape that seems to help her sometimes when she has had the 10th fight of the day with her youngest sister. Most of all, what if homeschooling ultimately fails her and she regrets our educational choices for her? Landry has 2 day science intensives for middle and high school level sciences. they cost between $100-$250 depending on when you enroll. Early enrollment is much, much cheaper. T's been to the middle school intensive and liked it. They did do a lab report using a form that I thought was appropriate for middle school. Our local natural history museum also offers labs to homeschoolers. T's done a few dissections this year because we're studying biology. They also offer high school physics labs that we'll use later on. These classes cost $15 for a one hour dissection class and $25 (I think) for a 2 hour physics lab. They're high quality classes with an enthusiastic, well prepared instructor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We are outsourcing four classes for DD this year because the time needed to care for one 92 year old parent who lives with us, and to care for a 91 year old parent now in hospice at a negligent nursing home occupies much of my time. This is our first time to use a commercial venture. Quality is a mixed bag. (All are from the same online provider.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 IMO the big benefit of homeschooling (including outsourcing whenever necessary or desired) is the ability to custom-fit the education to your student's academic needs and interests. What isn't available locally may be available on-line, though I would think about how much in-person vs on-line matters for your student if local in-person options are limited. From what little you have said about the school, it doesn't sound like a great fit and doesn't sound like it's worth the cost in your situation. I would explore whether the high school has the same pitfalls you've experienced in the lower grades (FWIW, around here, I've seen differences among elementary, middle and high schools at the same private school) and I'd explore other private possibilities, as not all schools are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 In my heart, I think she would be much more challenged at home, as she is mostly coasting by at school earning great grades but not delving deeper, if that makes sense. We just don't have the science resources she craves like materials and having a lab partner, even if that lab partner isn't doing their share of the work. (She just likes the interaction.) We don't have the peer group in our current area, and we would have to build it up in our new place where we know no one at all. We don't have that daily escape that seems to help her sometimes when she has had the 10th fight of the day with her youngest sister. Most of all, what if homeschooling ultimately fails her and she regrets our educational choices for her? :grouphug: Take a deep breath. I know where you are is stressful right now, but the good news is part of that stress is due to a really good thing: you do have choices. My son was homeschooled from 4th-8th grade. Due to an injury, he no longer had his core group of friends from swimming, so he decided to attend the public high school his siblings went to. He decided at the end of 1st semester freshman year to come home for English and history. In our state, that means he's officially a homeschooler even if he was still taking a majority of his classes at the school for second semester. I didn't even bother to look for accredited classes for English and history as I had done it with an older child and swore I'd never do it again. For 10th grade he did Spanish 2 and part of Adv. Alg.2 couple of electives at the school. The rest of it was mine except for AP English Language at PAHS. That outsourced AP class was really the turning point for my son academically. He couldn't sleep through class, do half the homework, and walk away with "A's" like the public school and he couldn't argue his way out of work like he could with me. He'd never had a teacher of that caliber (I'm crabby) and his fellow students were as bright and often even brighter than Sailor Dude. He had to work his backside off and he loved it! For me, outsourced classes that push my student to do more than I could get them to do, are worth the sacrifice on our budget. Dh is very generous with the educational budget, but my car is 16 yo and my great room couch and chair have chenille covers. Also, I spent 8 hours a day all summer to prepare for chemistry and AP European History for 10th grade. That was just two classes. Sailor Dude wants to discuss everything and I have to know the material in order to do that and to make a genuine assessment. It's the way I have to teach. Now, I like to focus on 1 or 2 classes that are my strength and then turn the rest over to someone more competent. There's no right or wrong way to do outsourcing. If you can teach all of the classes well all the way through, then do it. If you can't for academic or relationship reasons, then outsource. I could never have done some of the classes I have taught ds if I had younger kids at home. OP, follow your gut instinct, which sounds like trying to give your dd challenge while being accountable to someone other than you. Best wishes for happy resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 You all have such thoughtful responses, plus I'm getting some additional ideas for resources that I was unaware of. I still need time to sit back and absorb everything, and of course, pray about it. Thank you so much. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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