Work slowly through Beast Academy with a young non-reader?

[mckittre]

My kid will turn 6 in a few weeks. He's not advanced in everything, but he is in science and math. He looked over my shoulder at the sample bits of Beast 3A today, and wanted to work through it with me, and then said he wanted more. He can't read, and I don't think he could work through the math all by himself, even if he could. But he likes puzzles and challenges, and working through things with me, talking through strategies. I don't think he really wants or needs a whole K-2 math curriculum. So I was thinking about getting Beast 3A, and just planning to work on it slowly, together, as he has interest, with me reading aloud and covering any missing pieces as we need.

 

Does that make sense?

 

It seems like it might not be a bad starting point, even if we end up setting it aside for awhile. He's picked up so much math without us ever doing more than chatting about it, so I'm much more interested in having challenging puzzle math around for when he wants it, rather than worksheets of computations.

[Pegs]

I'd love to hear how you go with this, if you decide to go on with 3A. Has your DS taken the pre-test?

 

Do you have the Kitchen Table Math books? They might provide suggestions on how to cover those missing pieces as you encounter them. :)

[OneStepAtATime]

I think that is a fabulous idea!

[1053]

.

[Kerileanne99]

He should try the pre-test. Anyway, I say no. Let him keep absorbing math through osmosis, while working on his reading. Check how his arithmetic is going, and find some other source of puzzles.

Definitely the pretest:)

Honestly, I have a BA-loving kiddo that is very young...and the guides are wonderful and are wonderfully misleading as to how difficult the challenges can be! I would really hate to him turned off to BA and the possibilities for later.

You didn't really mention where he is as far as math goes. It sounds as though (correct me if I am wrong!) that you want to give him deeper, broader exposure to a wider variety of math concepts/challenges and puzzles but outside of the traditional, linear path? If so, there are lots of really fun materials that can do this without being quite so dependent upon solid mastery of arithmetic.

I highly recommend the Penrose the Mathematical Cat books by Theoni Pappas. You can read the short (usually 2 page) chapters to him and work through the math. There is the newest offering, a book full of Puzzles from Penrose that sounds like what you are looking for. They are fun:)

 

ETA: I can't see the harm in buying 3A to read together if he just has his heart set on it! It may be that flame that triggers him:) I just think that if you are just wanting to give him challenges and puzzles, there are other ways to go about it for now?

[blondeviolin]

I'd look at MEP first. It's puzzle-y and "fun." But it's developmentally appropriate too.

[desertflower]

I know what you mean op. We just read RS4K prelevel 1 chemistry to my 6 and 4 1/2 yo. They loved it. Keep wanting to build molecules. So as a disclaimer I'm going to say I have not btdt. But just bought 3A just to read to them. At this point in time we are not going to do the problems. I just want exposure. We have read to them mathstart books, Annos books, the Sir Cumference series and will read the penrose cat one (I forgot we had that until someone upthread mentioned it lol).

 

Just my opinion.

[Dmmetler]

I'm not going to say not to-because I probably would have done the same thing if it had been out. But I am going to point out that "cute" really stops when you hit about 6th grade level material. And it can be extremely hard to be 7 and still want/need "cute", but suddenly have everything be the sort of stuff designed to appeal to middle schoolers or higher who are too sophisticated for "cute".  So, if you can get the sort of puzzles and problem solving he wants now with living books (and things like Math is CATegorical and MathStart are good early readers, too-Penrose is an awesome read-aloud), but save BA for a year or two, when some of the math will still be new, and when most of his other subjects have started to diverge from "cute", I'd really suggest doing so. Not because he can't understand the math now, but because a 7-8-9 yr old is still a kid. And sometimes, it's really, really hard for accelerated kids to find materials that both take their academic side seriously and support that kid side. BA is probably about the best program I've seen for doing that.

 

 

[desertflower]

I'm not going to say not to-because I probably would have done the same thing if it had been out. But I am going to point out that "cute" really stops when you hit about 6th grade level material. And it can be extremely hard to be 7 and still want/need "cute", but suddenly have everything be the sort of stuff designed to appeal to middle schoolers or higher who are too sophisticated for "cute".  So, if you can get the sort of puzzles and problem solving he wants now with living books (and things like Math is CATegorical and MathStart are good early readers, too-Penrose is an awesome read-aloud), but save BA for a year or two, when some of the math will still be new, and when most of his other subjects have started to diverge from "cute", I'd really suggest doing so. Not because he can't understand the math now, but because a 7-8-9 yr old is still a kid. And sometimes, it's really, really hard for accelerated kids to find materials that both take their academic side seriously and support that kid side. BA is probably about the best program I've seen for doing that.

 

This is definitely something to ponder about.  Is there any reason why we can't read this to them now and then a year from now? 

[Dmmetler]

This is definitely something to ponder about.  Is there any reason why we can't read this to them now and then a year from now? 

 

It depends on your child. Some kids are fine repeating content. Others aren't (or are fine for some and not for others). even if they really could get more later. My DD is in the latter group, where she may choose to repeat something on her own, but having something assigned that she's already, in her mind, done and completed? Not going to be well received.

 

I would never, with an AL, operate under the assumption that "They won't remember it 2 years from now anyway". Because they may not remember where they left their shoes or that they've left the water running in the bathtub, but they can remember the exact solution of a puzzle that they saw before you even realized they could read, four years prior, and can defeat the purpose.  

[Kerileanne99]

This is definitely something to ponder about. Is there any reason why we can't read this to them now and then a year from now?

Not Ddmeter, but thought I would chime in as this is more or less what I did...I had ordered BA 3A and 3B when Alex was not yet 4. That being said she had already learned skip counting, multiplication tables and was reading well above any level she needed for Beast. We did 3A as a buddy-read. I thought we would wait on the problems but she was adamant. And literally would make herself sick because she lacked the physical skills and patience to work through them. It was awful. But obviously that will be kid dependent and there is a big difference between a 3-year old and a 6-year old. There was not a single math concept that really was above what she could do, but BA offers so much more! 3A is very approachable as it is angles, skip counting, fairly straight forward concepts. But they do ramp up!

After 3A I hid the others I ordered until she found them about 6-8 months later. She remembered them and begged:) I let her read them, or read them with me and it was a much better fit. We still struggle with frustration though! We are doing Beast behind what she does in regular math and it is still a challenge.

 

One other thing: I worry constantly about what Ddmeter calls 'the cuteness factor'. Alex turned five in December and still very, very much wants fun and cute. I don't expect that to change for a long time and we are fast exhausting that world:(. It isn't that I can't manufacture cute, but it is exhausting and lots of extra work.

I would say that there isn't anything wrong with reading the guides, and they will get more out of them as you read them again. They are fun, cute, and colorful. And if reading the guides is what ignites a love of math for your child or fills a need right now then go for it! We LOVE them. But there were unintended consequences:)

 

The other thing to consider is pacing. I now have a kid you has outpaced the slooooowww publishing schedule. When I ordered them I was certain this wasn't a possibility! Nope.

[WinsomeCreek]

I would never, with an AL, operate under the assumption that "They won't remember it 2 years from now anyway". Because they may not remember where they left their shoes or that they've left the water running in the bathtub, but they can remember the exact solution of a puzzle that they saw before you even realized they could read, four years prior, and can defeat the purpose.

Big smiles this morning from this gem.

 

Why not read the comics together now. Use other resources for the 'work' and return to the workbooks later? Just so you know, kids can learn to read from math books. 😉

[Kerileanne99]

 

I would never, with an AL, operate under the assumption that "They won't remember it 2 years from now anyway". Because they may not remember where they left their shoes or that they've left the water running in the bathtub, but they can remember the exact solution of a puzzle that they saw before you even realized they could read, four years prior, and can defeat the purpose.

Lol, I thought this was just some strange Alex quirk:)

The things she remember both blow me away and routinely drive me insane!

[Dmmetler]

One other thing: I worry constantly about what Ddmeter calls 'the cuteness factor'. Alex turned five in December and still very, very much wants fun and cute. I don't expect that to change for a long time and we are fast exhausting that world:(. It isn't that I can't manufacture cute, but it is exhausting and lots of extra work.

I would say that there isn't anything wrong with reading the guides, and they will get more out of them as you read them again. They are fun, cute, and colorful. And if reading the guides is what ignites a love of math for your child or fills a need right now then go for it! We LOVE them. But there were unintended consequences:)

 

 

Stickers...lots and lots of stickers...That's been what's gotten us through the last few years. Plus a few online supplement things that allow you to list the level and year group separately, so she gets cute cartoony animals giving her high school math questions.

[desertflower]

It depends on your child. Some kids are fine repeating content. Others aren't (or are fine for some and not for others). even if they really could get more later. My DD is in the latter group, where she may choose to repeat something on her own, but having something assigned that she's already, in her mind, done and completed? Not going to be well received.

 

I would never, with an AL, operate under the assumption that "They won't remember it 2 years from now anyway". Because they may not remember where they left their shoes or that they've left the water running in the bathtub, but they can remember the exact solution of a puzzle that they saw before you even realized they could read, four years prior, and can defeat the purpose.  

 

Thank you dmmetler and Kerileanne99  this is food for thought.  I have no intention of doing the problems right now because my 4 1/2 dd is not at that level of math yet.  Is this in the guide?  Are the problems in the guide as well?  I read some samples online and just thought the guide would be a fun read like Sir Circumference.  We read to them before bed.  When it comes to academics my dd is very much into comic book style books.  One of my intentions is for them to love reading and hopefully they can pick up something along the way.  :)  Like they did with molecules from the RS4K chemistry book.  Now they want to build water, fire, and poisonous gas molecules.  lol 

 

You are correct in that he probably can remember how to solve a problem in the future.  hmmmmmmmm.

[desertflower]

I guess my question is a moot point.  I ordered it 2 or 3 days ago anyhow.  I guess I'll find out soon.  Thank you for all the advices. 

 

Anyone else for it?  lol 

[Kerileanne99]

Thank you dmmetler and Kerileanne99 this is food for thought. I have no intention of doing the problems right now because my 4 1/2 dd is not at that level of math yet. Is this in the guide? Are the problems in the guide as well? I read some samples online and just thought the guide would be a fun read like Sir Circumference. We read to them before bed. When it comes to academics my dd is very much into comic book style books. One of my intentions is for them to love reading and hopefully they can pick up something along the way. :) Like they did with molecules from the RS4K chemistry book. Now they want to build water, fire, and poisonous gas molecules. lol

 

You are correct in that he probably can remember how to solve a problem in the future. hmmmmmmmm.

Ooh, and fun:)

Have you seen the Bedtime Math books? They are very cute and would be perfect for kids at different levels to do together. There are 4 levels of problems after a short funny paragraph or two. Problems range from easy logic and addition/subtraction to 'stumper' problems with more challenge.

There are two books, and we went through those...but I highly recommend signing up for the free email. You get a daily set, usually based on some current event or science topic. And the bonus problems are a bit harder:)

Loads of fun!

[desertflower]

Ooh, and fun:)

Have you seen the Bedtime Math books? They are very cute and would be perfect for kids at different levels to do together. There are 4 levels of problems after a short funny paragraph or two. Problems range from easy logic and addition/subtraction to 'stumper' problems with more challenge.

There are two books, and we went through those...but I highly recommend signing up for the free email. You get a daily set, usually based on some current event or science topic. And the bonus problems are a bit harder:)

Loads of fun!

 

Oh no!  I didn't know that!  Thank you!  :) 

 

Have to go buy ballet tights now.........will sign up tonight.  :)

[mckittre]

Thank you for all the thoughts.  

 

As for his math skills, I'll try the pretest. He knows all the concepts, and is quite good at mental arithmetic, but simply hasn't ever been taught standard algorithms or multiplication tables. So he can do something like 205-173, but will do it in his head as 200-170-3+5. And while something like 34x4, or a sixth of a minute, or 3 x 1.5 is fairly easy, 6x7 is harder, since he hasn't memorized it but will do it as 7x10 /2 +7. 

 

The thing he seemed most interested in when we looked at the sample pages wasn't so much the cuteness (he doesn't really need cute -- happy to watch college chemistry lectures on you tube), but the problems. He wouldn't stop until he'd gotten all the shapes right. He really liked the weights as well, wanted to give the answers before I read them, and was excited to go and figure out the number larger than 14 that couldn't be made with 5s and 6s. If it matters, he's a very focused kid for his age. 

 

He did Annos hat tricks last year. We have Penrose, but he's only occasionally interested. We'll work on reading too, but I don't think it's reasonable or fair to hold him back in math and science (he's always teaching chemistry to random adults, and is well above kindergarten level in both), by the fact that he's still sounding out simple words and has the handwriting of a 4yo. 

 

desertflower -- I can't help but add a few of my favorite chem resources, since my kid is a chemistry fanatic right now. The "compound" section of ptable.com is wonderful for building molecules. My son likes "molecule challenges" where we challenge eachother to build acids, or explosives, or antibiotics, or molecules of every color of the rainbow, or stinky molecules...  We then use that site to help/check ourselves. He can now describe to you why certain acids are stronger than others, why certain things are more or less toxic or stable, etc.. I also think he's watched everything on the periodic table of videos and their molecular videos, and played most of the phet chemistry simulations

 

 

[desertflower]

Thank you for all the thoughts.  

 

As for his math skills, I'll try the pretest. He knows all the concepts, and is quite good at mental arithmetic, but simply hasn't ever been taught standard algorithms or multiplication tables. So he can do something like 205-173, but will do it in his head as 200-170-3+5. And while something like 34x4, or a sixth of a minute, or 3 x 1.5 is fairly easy, 6x7 is harder, since he hasn't memorized it but will do it as 7x10 /2 +7. 

 

The thing he seemed most interested in when we looked at the sample pages wasn't so much the cuteness (he doesn't really need cute -- happy to watch college chemistry lectures on you tube), but the problems. He wouldn't stop until he'd gotten all the shapes right. He really liked the weights as well, wanted to give the answers before I read them, and was excited to go and figure out the number larger than 14 that couldn't be made with 5s and 6s. If it matters, he's a very focused kid for his age. 

 

He did Annos hat tricks last year. We have Penrose, but he's only occasionally interested. We'll work on reading too, but I don't think it's reasonable or fair to hold him back in math and science (he's always teaching chemistry to random adults, and is well above kindergarten level in both), by the fact that he's still sounding out simple words and has the handwriting of a 4yo. 

 

desertflower -- I can't help but add a few of my favorite chem resources, since my kid is a chemistry fanatic right now. The "compound" section of ptable.com is wonderful for building molecules. My son likes "molecule challenges" where we challenge eachother to build acids, or explosives, or antibiotics, or molecules of every color of the rainbow, or stinky molecules...  We then use that site to help/check ourselves. He can now describe to you why certain acids are stronger than others, why certain things are more or less toxic or stable, etc.. I also think he's watched everything on the periodic table of videos and their molecular videos, and played most of the phet chemistry simulations

 

Thank you for the info OP!  I will definitely look into it.  I didn't know about those videos or websites.  Is there a particular inorganic/organic model set you like?  I have to buy for 3 because my 2 year likes to build with them.  I have an organic molecule kit.  But I think it's only got 50 items in it.  Not enough for 3 kids.  lol  Plus, I didn't realize chlorine or the other metals weren't going to be in it.  So, I guess I have to buy an inorganic molecular kit.  I guess that makes sense.  lol  It's been a while since I had organic chemistry

 

Your child sounds very advance with regard to math.  Good job!  :) 

 

[Kerileanne99]

Thank you for all the thoughts.

 

As for his math skills, I'll try the pretest. He knows all the concepts, and is quite good at mental arithmetic, but simply hasn't ever been taught standard algorithms or multiplication tables. So he can do something like 205-173, but will do it in his head as 200-170-3+5. And while something like 34x4, or a sixth of a minute, or 3 x 1.5 is fairly easy, 6x7 is harder, since he hasn't memorized it but will do it as 7x10 /2 +7.

 

The thing he seemed most interested in when we looked at the sample pages wasn't so much the cuteness (he doesn't really need cute -- happy to watch college chemistry lectures on you tube), but the problems. He wouldn't stop until he'd gotten all the shapes right. He really liked the weights as well, wanted to give the answers before I read them, and was excited to go and figure out the number larger than 14 that couldn't be made with 5s and 6s. If it matters, he's a very focused kid for his age.

 

He did Annos hat tricks last year. We have Penrose, but he's only occasionally interested. We'll work on reading too, but I don't think it's reasonable or fair to hold him back in math and science (he's always teaching chemistry to random adults, and is well above kindergarten level in both), by the fact that he's still sounding out simple words and has the handwriting of a 4yo.

 

desertflower -- I can't help but add a few of my favorite chem resources, since my kid is a chemistry fanatic right now. The "compound" section of ptable.com is wonderful for building molecules. My son likes "molecule challenges" where we challenge eachother to build acids, or explosives, or antibiotics, or molecules of every color of the rainbow, or stinky molecules... We then use that site to help/check ourselves. He can now describe to you why certain acids are stronger than others, why certain things are more or less toxic or stable, etc.. I also think he's watched everything on the periodic table of videos and their molecular videos, and played most of the phet chemistry simulations

One other thing:

After all is said and done with regard to advice: you know your child better than anyone else. If I had listened to much of the well-meaning advice I recieved when I initially panicked over what to do math-wise for my dd5, I am convinced I long ago would have stifled her love of math and science:)

I still panic--sometimes daily I think as I struggle to come up with the next thing. But I have learned to take all the awesome advice I can gather in this forum and filter it through my knowledge of MY child, lol.

Good luck, and I hope you find a way to match his passions, with Beast or anything else. This board is no stranger to wildly asynchronistic kiddos!

[mathnerd]

but I don't think it's reasonable or fair to hold him back in math and science (he's always teaching chemistry to random adults, and is well above kindergarten level in both), by the fact that he's still sounding out simple words and has the handwriting of a 4yo. 

 

Sorry, I did not read the whole thread. The bolded section above has been my philosophy with my son's math education all through. I feel that if the child's intellect is ready and able to handle advanced math, then, there is no need to hold him back due to issues like handwriting. I started BA early as a buddy math program in conjunction with other math programs that we were doing. I scribed for my child. I read aloud the parts with complex vocabulary and explained what those words meant. I handed a dry erase marker and white board to DS and he was more comfortable working out the problems on it than on the practice book at age 5. To date, BA has motivated him and enthralled him more than any other math curriculum (we have used tons of them including many online options). He loves the challenge problems.

 

 

I would say that you should go ahead and start BA if your child is very motivated. 

 

PS: Some other resources that your child might like are "Balance Bender", "Balance math" and "math analogies" books from critical thinking co.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You  might also like something like Kitchen Table Math.  Basically it's filled with ideas for teaching various concepts including game suggestions.  If I recall correctly, anything in book one could be done with a non reader.

 

 

[boscopup]

I used it with a first grader that wasn't reading yet. It went very well until we got to the perfect squares section in 3B, and then we set it aside for a bit. Really not a big deal.

 

We were also using CLE 200 at the same time, so we went through BA very slowly.

 

My son had passed the pre-test with flying colors. The only thing he didn't know going in was subtraction with regrouping, but I taught him that in one week with MM before starting.

 

For us, BA is a fun supplement, not our main curriculum. I am purposely having this child go through CLE at a fairly normal pace (but a grade ahead). My oldest started Prealgebra in 4th, but I'm pacing this child a bit to give him more practice and repetition. It's good for him. He's a different kid.

 

Good luck!

[desertflower]

Thanks boscopup. Have fun with your soon to be newborn. :)

[LTBernard]

Stickers...lots and lots of stickers...That's been what's gotten us through the last few years. Plus a few online supplement things that allow you to list the level and year group separately, so she gets cute cartoony animals giving her high school math questions.

 

I would love to know what online things you are using that allow the level and year group to be separate.

[Dmmetler]

Mathletics lets you set it separately (as does Spellodrome, but she maxed it out pretty quickly) and Uzzingo let me leave her on the middle school interface when I moved her to high school (they removed the awards, though, which took away a lot of "cute").

[Greenmama2]

dmmetler had some excellent advice for the OP. I just popped in to agree with this:

Big smiles this morning from this gem.

Why not read the comics together now. Use other resources for the 'work' and return to the workbooks later? Just so you know, kids can learn to read from math books. 😉

 

We started BA3 when DD was 6.5 & not a strong reader (due to undiagnosed tracking issues). Taking turns to read the comic dialogue and having her read the questions aloud before attempting them was fabulous reading practice and at the time pretty much the only thing I could get her to read apart from Harry Potter.
 

[EndOfOrdinary]

My kid is not a math focused kid and BA didn't exist), though science has always been an outlet for his need for big ideas. If you have not yet discovered Thames and Kosmos, they are well worth the cash. The kits can be used, reused, combined, and in general allow for age appropriate roughness/fine motor, but very deep content. Since most are heavy duty plastic, your son can really beat them up much more heavily than high school kits.

 

We have some of the same physics kits Ds got around six and they still get regular use. Very much like academic Legos.

 

The cute thing tends to kick in when kids realize they are significantly advanced for their age. Ds could have cared less until about 8. He watches Magic School Bus now, but will use a high school chem book. He loves OddSquad, but has never used anything but a very flat, dry math book. He gains nothing from the shows other than feeling like a kid. It might not happen to your child, but be ready with some suggestions if you notice reluctance or depression setting in when social consciousness begins becoming important.

[mckittre]

So, the kid in question just broke his leg and is in a huge awkward cast. And his 6th birthday is coming up. And he decided on the way out of picking his sister up from preschool to double numbers in his head -- which he did completely correctly up to 16,384, and with I think only one small error that made his next two slightly off.  As he was doing it, he was talking about things like two 80s "making an extra hundred" so I think he's pretty close to regrouping even though he's not been taught it. 

Basically, I think his arithmetic is probably fine, and I'm REALLY going to need some indoor stuff to keep him occupied for the next couple months. I might just go for it.

 

 

We have some of the same physics kits Ds got around six and they still get regular use. Very much like academic Legos.

 Can you tell me which kits he loved best? My kid's 6th birthday is coming up in two weeks (and that broken leg...). His current passion is chemistry, but he likes all science. In fact, he spends probably hours a day building with his now outrageously large collection of molecular modeling kits, so "academic legos" are right up his alley.

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

All of the physics ones work together. So physics workshop, solar physics workshop, and physics pro all can be combined. We started with just workshop and then added solar. At the time we lived in Portland, OR so sun is hard to come by. If you are in a sunny place the solar one is great. The panel it gives you hooks to a motor so you can build various cars and transport that move. Lots of flare there. If you are considering building a collection, these are the most substantial.

 

We are using the Chem3000 right now. Definitely a top notch kit and if you are willing to do it with him (and have the $$$) it is very engaging and really fun. It is one you would need to be right there with, though. The chemicals and such. Physics he could do solo after only a very quick run through with you.

 

Electricity and magnetism was very engaging, but short. Ds blew through it. With a broken leg, I would say it would be even faster. We got the middle of the road one, and if I had to do it over would have sprung for the largest. I have a feeling that one would have lasted.

 

The wind turbine is neat. There is a chunk of reading in that one, but really great pictures. If he is willing, he could build it using the pictures and you could fill in the side educational bits as needed.

[desertflower]

So, the kid in question just broke his leg and is in a huge awkward cast. And his 6th birthday is coming up. And he decided on the way out of picking his sister up from preschool to double numbers in his head -- which he did completely correctly up to 16,384, and with I think only one small error that made his next two slightly off. As he was doing it, he was talking about things like two 80s "making an extra hundred" so I think he's pretty close to regrouping even though he's not been taught it.

Basically, I think his arithmetic is probably fine, and I'm REALLY going to need some indoor stuff to keep him occupied for the next couple months. I might just go for it.

 

 

Can you tell me which kits he loved best? My kid's 6th birthday is coming up in two weeks (and that broken leg...). His current passion is chemistry, but he likes all science. In fact, he spends probably hours a day building with his now outrageously large collection of molecular modeling kits, so "academic legos" are right up his alley.

Which molecular modeling kits do you like?

[mckittre]

Which molecular modeling kits do you like?

 

We have Molymod kits. Lots and lots of Molymod kits. I think two organic student sets, an inorganic student set, and an instructor organic/inorganic set, and a buckyball. Excessive, but our school district's homeschool program will pay for it, and he loves nothing more.

 

Molymod Game:

Often, the adults in our family play Bananagrams after dinner. So today, my husband and son invented "atom grams" -- sort of a bananagrams-ish boggle-ish molecule building game. In which you start out with ten random atoms (hydrogens and bonds are free), then build molecules until all the "holes" are filled in your atoms. A finished person says "add!" and everyone draws another atom. Game ends when someone builds 8 molecules, and points are given for each non-hydrogen atom in real molecules (as determined by our internet references). My son managed to beat everyone else, all four times we played (I was close!). Can't think of any other game that we have where a 5yo has a fair shake, and it was actually quite fun. We learned quite a bit as well, by looking up and reading about some of the lucky guess molecules (ones we weren't sure were real but turned out to be).

[desertflower]

Thank you. We have one Molymod kit. I was hoping I would not have to buy individual kits. Oh well.

 

Sounds like a cool game!

[mckittre]

Thought I should update to say how it worked out for us. Got the 3A book, only did the first lesson or two before several months of travel. Then, got home and he was interested to dive into it in earnest again. 

 

He's not quite 6.5 now. He loved the geometry section. We spent a long time on it, and when he got stuck, we'd step out of the book and trade off making eachother puzzles of the same type, then he'd go back. He ended up managing most of the double star problems in the end, and was proud of that. Now we're doing the skip counting.

 

So, we're going through it very slowly, and I'm reading everything out loud (we read the guide sections lots of times), but he's doing the math himself. And something seems to be sticking. We've been done with the "polyominos" for a while, but yesterday morning he sat up in bed announcing he wanted to figure out how many possible hexominos there were, and whether it was possible to make them with dominos, L-triominos, straight triominos, or none of those. And proceeded to make some hexominos and use some of the Beast techniques to prove his answer. 

 

I still think he might not pass the pre-test, because he doesn't do ANY work on paper, and doesn't know official techniques like regrouping, though he's perfectly happy to do complicated subtraction in his head in his own way. But he loves puzzles, and we trade verbal math puzzles of all types as just a fun activity. So it's perfect for him. I think he'd never get to "fluent" if I made him try, but he gets lots of practice with facts in solving puzzles and is starting to memorize some stuff. 

 

I guess I'll keep reading BA aloud for awhile. 

 

Also, does anyone have a good resource for logic puzzles? I'd just love to see a huge list of different types to jog my own brain into thinking of more. Stuff like "if you and your sister each ate a quarter of the muffin batch, and daddy ate 5, and there was just one left for me, how many muffins did I make?" or "magic function" where I'll think of something like (x-3)/2 and he'll ask me numbers, I'll spit out the answers until he can guess what operations I was doing. Or "if I have 15 cabbages and twice as many are red as green, how many are red?" "or if you run twice as fast as your friend, and you each run twice as fast downhill as up, and your friend takes 20 seconds to run down the hill, how long do you have to wait at the top if you both run down then up?"

He says that the hardest part is figuring out how to solve the problem, and if he knows how, then it's "too easy," so it's really variety of type I'm looking for. I need to keep the numbers easy enough for mental math, but the concepts can be tricky.

[Dmmetler]

Creative thinking company or Prufrock Press both have good collections of logic puzzles.

[Julie of KY]

My kids have loved:

Balance Benders (Creative Thinking press)

Detective Club and More Detective Club (Prufrock press)

Logic Safari and other logic books from Prufrock press

Chocolate Caper (Prufrock press)

Zaccaro's Primary grades challenge math (I'm not sure if that's really the title)

 

[displace]

Dream box is a fun algebraic puzzler app. Sort of. It is fun!

[Tsuga]

I'd wait.

 

Not because he can't but because it's a combination of multiplication-fact-learning and algebraic thinking that is not aimed at 6.5 year olds. I don't mean intellectually. Some kids are natural puzzlers. I mean, the whole context. You want it to be fun for him, not hard.

 

Salamander math has a ton of math puzzles for every level that your son may like.

 

I think if you have to go very slowly, it means your son still needs some other basic skills that lead up to BA, and it will be less fun for him.

 

That said I would never discourage a child from attacking a puzzle book, so if he's eagerly devouring those puzzles, more power to him. I personally would spend more time on spatio-temporal activities to build that innate number sense and lots and lots of puzzling with + / - operations (even very complicated ones) before going to multiplication. BA was intended to teach accelerated third graders. There are children who are in "accelerated third grade" at the age of five, three, even two! But for the "run of the mill genius" at an IQ of 130-145 or so, that is less likely to be the case, and there are so many resources out there to exercise that basic number sense and algebraic thinking I don't see the point.

 

Good luck. My daughter has done BA 3B this year (7-8) and LOVES it. "Mom, it is actually like doing something!"

[Miss Tick]

Depending on how much digging you are in the mood for, you could read through the MEP lesson plans and dig out different puzzles. You may want to pick a section to print, like year 3 lessons 1-30 so you can physically flip through them, but if you find some and want more you could skim them online and just print pages you are interested in. It may not be worth your time, however it is free for printing and you can basically hand pick problems of interest.

[mckittre]

 

That said I would never discourage a child from attacking a puzzle book, so if he's eagerly devouring those puzzles, more power to him. I personally would spend more time on spatio-temporal activities to build that innate number sense and lots and lots of puzzling with + / - operations (even very complicated ones) before going to multiplication. BA was intended to teach accelerated third graders. There are children who are in "accelerated third grade" at the age of five, three, even two! But for the "run of the mill genius" at an IQ of 130-145 or so, that is less likely to be the case, and there are so many resources out there to exercise that basic number sense and algebraic thinking I don't see the point.

 

I'm not expecting any sort of pace, since math is optional in his world. We only do it when he wants to. And who am I to say he shouldn't spend an extra couple weeks making up his own polyomino problems?  He's nearly 6.5 now. Would be going into first grade in the fall, by age. Not that different from 7. It would not be kind to take the book he has away from him now, though I don't have to offer to buy him more of them.

 

But I don't know. I don't have any reason to suspect this kid is any kind of genius, not even a "run of the mill genius." I have no idea what most geeky kids know at 6, so it would be presumptuous of me to try and rate mine in comparison.

 

But I do wonder how you could prevent any kid from knowing about multiplication? Multiplication and division are pretty obvious things to do with numbers, and I can't imagine answering a preschooler's math questions without mentioning the concept. It seems very unlikely a kid could reach age 6, or the point of being able to do complicated addition/subtraction without being quite familiar with simple multiplication? Or maybe I'm missing your point.

[SeaConquest]

For what it's worth, my 6.5 year old and I did the skip counting chapter, and he loved it. He already had multiplication exposure in Singapore, but liked the BA chapter much more. And he's not some sort of math prodigy either.

[mckittre]

Thanks for all the puzzle book ideas. My 4.5 yr old has the first "mind benders" book from the critical thinking company, and I can see harder versions might appeal to my older kid. Having to read everything aloud to him is kind of a damper, though.

 

What do I do with a kid who likes trying to make me guess his function (x-1)(x)(x+2)(x+3) and discuss the stability of decaborane, but who can read on the level of "the king can sing"?