newbieoftwo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My son just moved to chapter books as readers and I asked if he was to read one chapter a night or if it could be broken up further. My son struggles with stamina and attention span and the first chapter took him about 30 minutes to complete. Yes, his reading group is reading one chapter a night Monday thru Thursday. There is a schedule glued in his reading journal to let you know when each chapter is due. His reading group is scheduled to finish this book on Thursday, February 5th. I have time built into the class for him to begin his reading, but he usually does not use his time wisely and ends up having to catch up on assignments he has not finished during the time he could be reading. He did get all of his work finished today and began his reading in class. Let me know if this helps with his reading tonight. It should take him 15 to 20 minutes to read a chapter in his book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think that's a great response. I would love to get that level of detail regarding expectations and my child's performance against expectations. It sounds like you are both aware of your son's weaknesses. S/he is explaining why it may be taking him a long time to get through a chapter at night so you can encourage him to make changes in his behavior in class so that he will have less homework. My daughter struggles with attention as well. I reward her for a positive teacher assessment--basically I ask the teacher, was her attention on this week or needs improvement? If it's on, then she gets a lot of attention for that and positive feedback. If not I remind her that attention is half the battle and we talk about strategies to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think that regarding reading, the teacher has stated the expectations pretty plainly. Now the ball is in your court: either you can give your child more encouragement and help with the reading, or if you feel it's too much for him request that he be moved to a group that doesn't move quite as fast. The only thing that might slightly annoy me is the bit about not 'using his time wisely'. If he has behavioral issues in class, I would ideally like the teacher to have raised this when it started, not as an aside in the reading conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think that regarding reading, the teacher has stated the expectations pretty plainly. Now the ball is in your court: either you can give your child more encouragement and help with the reading, or if you feel it's too much for him request that he be moved to a group that doesn't move quite as fast. The only thing that might slightly annoy me is the bit about not 'using his time wisely'. If he has behavioral issues in class, I would ideally like the teacher to have raised this when it started, not as an aside in the reading conversation. I think the bolded statement is what is irking me. The teacher has discussed behavioral issues with me once before (upon my asking after he received a "below grade level" assessment on a report card), but that was a few months ago and she has not communicated with me since. My son struggles completing assignments in class and is easily distracted. We work at this at home, but he really just has good days and bad days. This is the first chapter book his reading group has been asked to read. He is in first grade, but this book is a 3rd grade reader. The content and words are not a struggle, but he is adjusting to the length of pages per chapter. This book is also heavy on dialogue which is difficult to read aloud at times. I have no problem with the expectations and was glad to have it cleared up. However, I do feel like she took the opportunity to take a dig at my son unnecessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingCat Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would just have him read for 15 min (based on the teacher's estimate) and then read the rest to him quickly so he is keeping up with the group. And work on attention and stamina separately from the assigned reading. That is based on my disfranchisement with teachers after having a struggling reader though - because yes, it would bother me that she thinks he can do it by 'using his time wisely' when I knew he can't - but I no longer believe that sharing information changes anything as far as expected workload. And my experience is that the workload they assigned was not in any way optimized for my child nor did she get better at anything by struggling with homework for extended periods of time -- improvement only came when I started addressing her specific issues directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Some teachers are not as communicative. My older brought class work home when he was in PS 1st grade because he dawdle in class. If I want more frequent feedback, I'll let the teacher know. The teacher might feel she is just complaining otherwise if she feedback negatively often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think her response is completely fine. Also, generally unless a child is struggling in a big, obvious way, teachers are not likely to bring day-to-day struggles to your attention. They just cannot do that for the entire class--there are a lot of kids, and if things are humming along pretty well then the teacher is going to keep on teaching and spend her precious non-school hours grading and prepping lessons. Day-to-day struggles get brought up in parent-teacher conferences. They give you a heads-up if the day-to-day struggles affect the functioning of the class or seem to be impacting your child in a bigger, deeper way. I don't see her comment about his behavior as a dig at all. When you asked your question, it gave her a reason to pause and narrow her focus to just your child. She was able to give a detailed response (which tells me she is probably a pretty good teacher), which can only help you, as the parent, help coach your child to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 However, in our parent teacher conference she said that he was doing great and had nothing but good things to say about him. His first report card reflected that he was indeed struggling with time management skills and following directions. We discussed via email what I could address to help him conquer these issues. The "late" work and incomplete work sent home today was more than his average and some of it was just graded incomplete. He had two blank sheets, meaning even his name was written by the teacher, that came home with a "0" on top. It appears that his behavior is now effecting his day-to-day progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think her response is completely fine. Also, generally unless a child is struggling in a big, obvious way, teachers are not likely to bring day-to-day struggles to your attention. They just cannot do that for the entire class--there are a lot of kids, and if things are humming along pretty well then the teacher is going to keep on teaching and spend her precious non-school hours grading and prepping lessons. Day-to-day struggles get brought up in parent-teacher conferences. They give you a heads-up if the day-to-day struggles affect the functioning of the class or seem to be impacting your child in a bigger, deeper way. I don't see her comment about his behavior as a dig at all. When you asked your question, it gave her a reason to pause and narrow her focus to just your child. She was able to give a detailed response (which tells me she is probably a pretty good teacher), which can only help you, as the parent, help coach your child to succeed. It appears, in my opinion, that with the incomplete or simply not done at all work beginning to come home that the struggles are impacting my son in a big way. He can't get credit for work that he doesn't do despite if he has the knowledge to complete the work. I do think that the teacher hasn't communicated this issue because it doesn't impact the class. The class can continue to function whether my son completes his work or not. They simply move on to the next activity. He is not overly rambunctious and doesn't interrupt the other students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It is a fine response. If he is not using his class time wisely, he will figure it out. There is a natural consequence for poor time management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Edit--I realized a paragraph got deleted last night and tried to edit, but my phone died! What I had wanted to say was that I think that the zeros on papers were meant to be the communication from the teacher regarding daily work and failure to meet expectations in that regard. I know six/seven is little but the teachers just don't have time to give really detailed feedback at that level for each child. Also, to them it is normal that some children will choose not to spend time wisely. At the PT conference they just bring up big things and give you an overview of what is happening in class. I disagree that just because a child struggles with (I.e. Is not naturally average or above average at) something, that it should not be pointed out as an area for improvement. Attention issues and yes my kid has them, so much so that it's been on every report card /teacher feedback report since year 1 of pre-school, can be an area for impolrovement. improvement.Can she easily do what some others do? No. It will always require more effort, sometimes much more.But it is still accurate to tell her, "you did not use your class time wisely so now you have more homework."I am reminded of a line from the book What's Going on in There, about brain development. The author is a loving mom and neuroscientist. She wrote something like, "If by school age you still think your child is remarkable, your first parent-teacher conference ought to do the trick!" Of course she wrote from experience. The fact is that all our kids could stand to improve and in many cases yes it will take effort. That is hard to hear. But we all hear it eventually. Hugs to you. Having a child perform below ability to to poor time use can be very frustrating. But they have to learn eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The impression I get is that you have contacted the teacher because your child is having an area of difficulty and she is telling you why. I would think the next step It is up to you. You can choose to try to remediate your child at home or take it to the next step of requesting an evaluation. I may be mistaken, but I thought in ps if your child needed additional time or accomdations then you needed to consider getting an IEP. If it is just not "using time wisely" then the teacher has told you and implemented natural consequences. If you are thinking this is an area where your child struggles, then IMO it would be IEP time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm thinking maybe she hasn't brought up the dawdling issue separately yet because the last couple of months of school may have been a little chaotic with all the holidays and partial weeks. It may be that she wanted to let him settle back in a bit to the solid routine and was waiting to see if he'd i,prove the dawdling. Otherwise, I think it was a fine response, and it's nice that she has an idea of why he has so much to do at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The clarification of expectations is helpful. If he is not able to finish the chapter each night, I would help him in some way. Let him do some reading without help, but after a certain point read it with or to him, or read it and have him read the same back to you. The "not using time wisely" is unhelpful in my opinion. I am not sure "using time wisely" is a reasonable expectation in mid-1st grade. But I would just ignore it. I spent many mornings urging my kid to manage her school day better in 1st grade. I'm not sure it made any difference, beyond making our morning drive stressful. I think kids who are interested in the subject (reading, math, whatever) are going to "use their time wisely" compared to those who would rather be doing something else. Naturally. Too bad they never noted how "wisely" my kid used her recess time. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As far as "more communication" about problems, be careful what you ask for. Hearing the negative stuff more often is only helpful if you can do something about it in the short term. Otherwise it's just stressful and starts to feel like being picked on and disliked by the teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think the note is helpful but I would have the teacher clarify what she means by "not using time wisely." Is the child staring out the window? Doodling on their math? Chatting with other students? Is his desk unorganized and it takes him longer to find his book or a pencil? There is a huge range of issues that could be happening to prevent him from completing his assignments. Once you have a better idea of what exactly is going on you can address those behaviors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 a child this age and at this stage of experience in school, I would rephrase that from "he is not" to "he can't" Don't assume he can and isn't. Kids usually want to please, want to fit in (though of course they're little and have poor impulse control etc.) But if something is consistently not getting done, I would look hard for what is the impediment and generally I would not be looking at internal motivators at that age..I'd just assume the set up is such that he can't and figure out what to change to make this easier for him. I agree w comments above that you need to find out more - is he distracted, bored, tired, frazzled, disorganized, wiggly - what is it specifically that's not letting him fit into the square hole of school. I also would not have a gr 1 kid do 30 min of homework in one subject. Again I agree with a pp who suggested having him read for a bit and then reading it out loud to him. Cut it down, make it fun, let him play. Is he in an accelerated program? (Because why are they reading a gr 3 book in gr 1?) perhaps he's not ready emotionally for that level of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It sounds fine. I have no problem with the teacher saying the thing about him not using his time wisely if she's mentioned it in the past. I could see her thinking she wouldn't want to go on and on about it- especially if she's working on it and he isn't being disruptive. I'd let them work it out in school and used to get annoyed with the teacher for mentioning things that weren't big deals all the time. I agree with the other poster who said to have him read for 15min and then just finish it for him. With my kids who struggled, after they hit reading fatigue, they were no longer listening to themselves and were just calling out words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would be thrilled with a response like that. If it is taking him longer than 15-20 minutes on a regular basis, you might want to ask the teacher if perhaps he should move to a different group that has lower expectations as his fluency isn't where it needs to be yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The impression I get is that you have contacted the teacher because your child is having an area of difficulty and she is telling you why. She contacted the teacher, though, regarding the volume of homework and the teacher responded. The teacher did not contact her out of the blue. The teacher was explaining the answer to a question that OP asked. Is he in an accelerated program? (Because why are they reading a gr 3 book in gr 1?) perhaps he's not ready emotionally for that level of work? In our schools they will put a child in whatever group they read up to. However, I do think it's a bit unusual to have a kid moved up a group that would be beyond his level. They have a strict floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is he in an accelerated program? (Because why are they reading a gr 3 book in gr 1?) perhaps he's not ready emotionally for that level of work? No he is not in an accelerated program. The class, however, is full of all the gifted 1st graders. His reading level isn't my issue. Just the abrupt jump from small printed readers, to chapter books is taking some adjustment. Thank you for all the suggestions to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just the abrupt jump from small printed readers, to chapter books is taking some adjustment. Is the print too small for your child? Mine found the small print and yellower pages of chapter books straining when he was younger. His teacher didn't mind him reading large print unabridged classics instead. I would also borrow the ebook version and my kid could enlarge on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm sorry if I missed this: So, if he is bringing home incomplete work, are you enforcing the natural consequence of him having to do it at home? My DS10 had an issue with not completing work at the beginning of the year. It was work that was easy for him, he was just deciding he would rather read in his desk. I assured her that anything like that could be sent home as homework. And I assured *him* that nothing else would be happening until it was done. That problem resolved itself. But, if you aren't getting him to do the unfinished homework at home, then the teacher doesn't have any backup, and the child can see he doesn't have to do his work at school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm sorry if I missed this: So, if he is bringing home incomplete work, are you enforcing the natural consequence of him having to do it at home? My DS10 had an issue with not completing work at the beginning of the year. It was work that was easy for him, he was just deciding he would rather read in his desk. I assured her that anything like that could be sent home as homework. And I assured *him* that nothing else would be happening until it was done. That problem resolved itself. But, if you aren't getting him to do the unfinished homework at home, then the teacher doesn't have any backup, and the child can see he doesn't have to do his work at school. I was having him do this work at home up until this past week when the work started coming home with a grade rather than incomplete to finish at home. I always enforced incomplete work to be done first thing and sent it back the next day. I scheduled a separate conference for next week to discuss solutions to incomplete work and to clarify what "not using his time wisely" means in his class. I don't know if he is talking, dawdling, staring into space, or simply too distracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Discussing the teacher's specific expectations for time use is a great idea. I have found it helpful to ask about what cues the teacher uses so I can reinforce them, not because they are universally right all the time, but because my life is better when my kids know that the teachers and me support one another in some basic expectations of classroom behavior. Then I keep these specific cues for expected behaviors in mind when I'm dong homework. Like one teacher would use one word for quiet voices, so I used that and it was like both of us had backup. Another teacher used a cue for a specific attitude towards grammar and I use that term when asking her to look and see if her writing is grammatically correct. For the little one, she's in an immersion environment so I use the phrase for pay attention in her immersion tongue but I feel awkward using it since I don't know the language. Still, it seems to help because it reinforces that rule in her head. Good luck. Attention is such a tough thing because it can be interpreted as a moral issue when really it is a mental skill to develop. Focusing on attention as a skill to improve should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think she was just using the 'not using his time wisely' as a way of explaining that she isn't setting as much reading as it appears. I can see no reason why you can't break it up into 3 or 4 bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Very reasonable response. The teacher gave clear guidance on the expectation and plan, and gently let you know that your DS is perhaps not using class time well. Can you break the evening reading into 2 chunks, before and after dinner perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I was having him do this work at home up until this past week when the work started coming home with a grade rather than incomplete to finish at home. I always enforced incomplete work to be done first thing and sent it back the next day. I scheduled a separate conference for next week to discuss solutions to incomplete work and to clarify what "not using his time wisely" means in his class. I don't know if he is talking, dawdling, staring into space, or simply too distracted.That sounds like an excellent plan. After DS's report card came home with him not meeting expectations in organization and completing work on time, then we went to his interview and he showed us his journal entry written in "invisible ink", we went home, had a discussion and went back the next day. He and I brainstormed, then presented our ideas to the teacher. For example, every Monday the journal entry was "What did you do this weekend?" He felt we never did anything noteworthy. Another was his desk being so full of papers he couldn't find anything. A troubled boy who threatened to kill him in the past (another story) gave him scribbles every day. DS didnt want to offend the kid by throwing them out. He came up with the idea of having a folder in his desk that the teacher would throw out the contents of after every one was gone. We had s loooong conference. In the end, she saw where he was coming from, and he understood her a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Just wanted to add, no way my 9 y.o. could read chapters in that type of setting and it would take him FOREVER at home. We aren't in ps so I can cut him a break. But if we were in the system, I'd either have to get accomodations or spend a lot of time on homework with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Update: I met with my son's teacher on Tuesday just to clarify for his father and I what not using his time wisely meant. I know that he isn't finishing his work and I want to work with his teacher to improve the situation. It turns out that days when my son comes home and tells me he did "nothing" at school, it is quite possible that he did nothing! He has about two hours in the morning to complete 2-3 worksheets. Sometimes he zooms through them and other times they are still blank at the end of those two hours. Talking is an issue that we are addressing, but daydreaming appears to be his biggest struggle. Even when he is at a table alone, he stares off into space or just stares at his paper without moving his pencil at all. His teacher seemed to want to work on this issue with us. The main concern is next year when he won't receive credit for work he doesn't do and could possibly fail. We've started the process of evaluating him for any learning disabilities or ADHD so that we can put accommodations in place if necessary. Thank you all for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oh and he now easily completes a chapter a night in less than 15 minutes. However, don't ask about the sentence he is supposed to write about the chapter in class each day..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Wait, did you say first graders are left sitting for 2 hours daily with worksheets they are supposed to be completing on their own? What?? Or is it a half hour per day? Is it broken up into parts or 30 minutes all at once? At that age, it should surprise nobody that many kids don't stay on task without frequent direction. Especially in a room full of interesting sights, sounds, and people. That by itself does not indicate ADHD etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Wait, did you say first graders are left sitting for 2 hours daily with worksheets they are supposed to be completing on their own? What?? Or is it a half hour per day? Is it broken up into parts or 30 minutes all at once? At that age, it should surprise nobody that many kids don't stay on task without frequent direction. Especially in a room full of interesting sights, sounds, and people. That by itself does not indicate ADHD etc. No, no, no. There are other activities that occur during this two hours. It is not at all a sit at your desk the whole time. However, my son is stuck sitting because he doesn't finish the work in order to move on to the next activity (silent reading, reading groups, centers, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieoftwo Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Do you feel daydreaming is really the issue? Does he spend that much time daydreaming at home? I would suspect lack of intellectua l stimulation. He doesn't spend much time daydreaming at home, no. He does have attention issues at home, but I remove distractions when he works here so it isn't the same environment. I know that it is a lack of intellectual stimulation. If he finds the work boring or already knows the material, he doesn't see the point in completing the assignment. I understand this and we are working on completing work that is boring and doing things we may not like but certainly still have to do. I've tried relating it to my disdain for laundry. I hate doing laundry and it is the most mundane task for me. However, no laundry equals no clean clothes. They do not offer accelerated work or alternatives to the worksheets. He is in a class of other gifted students, but they basically work at the exact same pace of every other 1st grade class. Many other parents have expressed their concern that this really isn't a "gifted program" if it doesn't go above and beyond (or do anything different really!) than students who are not in the "gifted program". Basically we are looking into a new school again.... sigh.... my daughter is loving this school.... I wish I could homeschool, but that is not an option at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 No, no, no. There are other activities that occur during this two hours. It is not at all a sit at your desk the whole time. However, my son is stuck sitting because he doesn't finish the work in order to move on to the next activity (silent reading, reading groups, centers, etc.). IMO first graders need more guidance than it sounds like your son is getting. Or at least, some kids do. Maybe because it is a "gifted class," the teacher isn't used to the normal range of maturity. I find it disturbing that a teacher would watch a child spin his wheels for long periods every day, for half of the school year, and not try something different with that child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 However, my son is stuck sitting because he doesn't finish the work in order to move on to the next activity (silent reading, reading groups, centers, etc.). It would be better for his teacher and for him to just let him finish the work at home and just let him move to the next activity. Could you suggest that to the teacher? Does his teacher assess his academic ability periodically? Also can he sit near the teacher's desk preferably facing the whiteboard? His teacher should be experienced enough to differentiate between a bored daydreamer and/or a habitual daydreamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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