Dreading Triennial Assessment Review IEP Tomorrow

[Crimson Wife]

My little one had her every 3 years IEP full assessment and we get the results tomorrow. Knowing how hit-or-miss DD can be with her cooperation, I'm dreading the report. If it isn't an accurate reflection of what she can & can't do, I'll have to decide whether it's worth trying to fight for an Independent Educational Evaluation. There's no guarantee that she'd be any more cooperative with the IEE tester(s) and potentially less so since she doesn't know them like she does her teacher, school SLP, etc. I could be "that parent", antagonize the district, and wind up with no more useful information than I get from the district eval. Where's my crystal ball when I need one?

[Mrs. Tharp]

If the results were skewed due to lack of cooperation, it should be noted in the report by the psychologist, with the addendum that inconsistency is typical of autistic kids. You shouldn't have to fight for an IEE; you're entitled to one by law if you disagree with the results of the district's eval.

 

I hate to say this, but every single person I've ever known who has been an effective advocate for their autistic child has been "that parent". As long as you remain courteous, and refrain from showing anger no matter how much it is warranted, it won't antagonize the district. Just be friendly, polite, and persistent. And know your special ed. law.

 

If it ever comes to challenging anything and you feel like you need help, feel free to pm me. I have an incredible advocate, a former special ed. teacher, who does phone consultations, knows the law, and can pinpoint problems in the IEP, FBA, BIP, etc. Hiring her was some of the best money I've ever spent on behalf of my son.

[Heathermomster]

Good luck today!

[Lecka]

I have not had a 3-year yet, that will be next year, but I have had reports where the teachers write in their observations in addition to the test results, where they felt the test was not an accurate reflection, b/c of him not participating with the test.  This is in the past now -- but at the time, it would be like "can the child stack the blocks?" and at the assessment he would just sweep the blocks onto the floor.  But they could write in -- "child observed to do x in classroom."  

 

So -- we do not have a standard score on a normed test, but we have the observations and I think they are good.  

 

So -- if my two goals are 1) my child has appropriate IEP goals and appropriate programs and supports to reach these goals, and 2) is there a way to measure progress, then honestly those two goals can be met fine with what we got with his first bit of testing.  

 

But do I have standard scores?  No, I do not.  Where I have them -- yep, they are not accurate.  

 

I have no idea of what his IQ score might be.  I have no idea what his expressive/receptive language levels might be as far as -- putting a number to them.  

 

But -- I do not think it is hurting him, I think the people working with him are working well with him, using their own assessments and progress measures.  To some extent -- he is working through the goals in ABLLS and the Maurice Curriculum, plus goals that his resource teacher has chosen for him, plus goals the SLP and OT have chosen for him.  I think they are all good and sensible goals.

 

But anyway -- I think the answer will depend on what is gained or lost by not having accurate information at age 6.  

 

Will it change her placement options?  Then yes, fight for it.  Will it change her goals?  Then yes, fight for it.

 

Will it not change much practically, and just be like "bummer, we know these are not accurate scores?"  I would let it go.  I would, if they don't do this already, ask them to add in a narrative of teacher assessment/observation to provide additional information.  You also might ask them to put in a note, that x and y behavior was exhibited so that the scores may not reflect where she is at.  That is how they did my son's, they have notes like that and then the teachers wrote notes with examples of things he did at different times.  

 

But, it is always a question, kind-of, b/c sometimes he just does not answer like he should.  I just accept that right now, accurate scores are not something I can probably reasonably expect.  He just does not perform consistently enough.  I don't think it is impossible, or unlikely.  I just think, there is nothing we can do to guarantee that he performs well on a test.  But for practical purposes, we can see that he is having an inconsistent day by doing things over a period of time.  Then we can know -- okay, this day was inconsistent.

 

I have a very good relationship with our school district, and I do not have concerns about my son getting appropriate services or having appropriate goals.  

 

If I had those concerns, it would be different.  

 

When we went to his transition IEP, that was the paperwork we took in, and the principal's first impression was based off of that.  But -- for us, it did not do anything to hurt my son.  He got an aide for lunch and recess with no questions asked -- which I am happy with.  But I do not believe that anybody working with him looked at those papers and then had a negative impression of him, or a lowered expectation of his ability.  I think they do not look at the paperwork in that way.  

 

If I thought it might be that way, I would want to try for higher numbers. 

 

We are in a small town (one high school, two middle schools), and people from the elementary schools go to the pre-schools to observe kids and talk to their pre-school teachers.  I also had met his resource teacher at an autism training, and I could tell she hit it off with my son.  So -- I don't think the test scores are high on the list of things people are looking at.  

 

If I thought they were -- I would want to try for higher numbers.

 

But if it doesn't really matter -- I would be disappointed, but not think it was worth putting me or my son through any kind of hassle or stress.  I would choose other things as higher priorities.   

 

But really -- I think I would ask a lot of questions about placement if that is a concern.  If she is in a placement that will not change based on these scores, then maybe it doesn't really matter.  That is how I think, anyway.  

 

I am on the lower side for seeking out testing, though, I am not that motivated by it.  I care more about what the teachers see and progress that I can see.  Also my son is a twin so I feel I have a clear view of NT development, it is not really a question mark to me, honestly.  

 

But, it does also bother me that we do not have accurate scores, when I think about it.  It bothers my sense of rightness with the world.  But that is just how it is, and ime when people look at score results with my son, they are building into it -- that they know he will not have had an easy time meeting all the conditions of the tests, and that will be reflected in his score ------ if that makes sense.  So I feel like -- it is not like people look at it and think it is accurate, either, it is just some information that hopefully will be helpful.  They also might be able to look and say "oh, well I know this test is done this way, and he got a really low score" and then the take-away information is -- the way this test is conducted is difficult to him and that gives a direction to work with him.  It doesn't mean they look and say "oh, this test score is so low, what a dummy."  It is just not how I think these scores are used!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There are also things where he has dramatic improvement, and instead of going "he has learned so much" they go -- he probably already knew this even at the first test, but now he can show it.  And -- that is what they suspected all along.  But it is great he can comply with the test!  Even if they don't think it is a real picture of what he used to know and knows now (or can demonstrate).  

 

But that is just how it goes I guess.  I don't know ;)

 

I hope the meeting goes well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Innisfree]

No advice, but hoping it goes well!

[Crimson Wife]

 I think the answer will depend on what is gained or lost by not having accurate information at age 6.  

 

Will it change her placement options?  Then yes, fight for it.  Will it change her goals?  Then yes, fight for it.

 

Part of the issue is that I've been fighting with the Scottish Rite clinic to get her accepted as a client there as their director has been reluctant to take her due to the diagnosis being "classic" autism rather than Asperger's or PDD (she was evaluated under the old DSM-IV criteria). Every therapist, teacher, etc. who has ever actually worked with her has said that she's clearly bright and capable of making good progress despite the challenges posed by her ASD. She has responded well to every single type of therapy we've tried with her (ABA, speech, OT, PT, etc.) and I have no reason to think that she wouldn't be capable of improvement using Fast ForWord at Scottish Rite if they accepted her as a client.

 

The school placement I don't think is likely to change based on the report vs. the ongoing interactions the staff has with her.

[HeWillSoar]

Ugh. Good luck! I dreaded those IEP meetings back when we were receiving services from the school. More than once I encountered hostile IEP group members and left completely shaken. I'm so glad we are disassociated from the school district now. Let us know how it goes.

 

Me too!  I always felt like we were going to battle. 

[Lecka]

Hmmmmm, I don't know if I think I would fight the school when it is Scottish Rite that is being difficult.  

 

B/c, you could go to all this trouble, and still not get her into Scottish Rite.  

 

I think -- I would feel like, if information you can already get (letters, reports, etc) are not good enough for Scottish Rite, I would hesitate to mess with something going well.  

 

Otoh, if the Scottish Rite has some clear, stated guideline that includes a minimum test score, and you think she really should get that score ----- then I think I might go for it.  

 

To be honest, though, I would look into alternatives to Fast ForWord, and alternatives to Scottish Rite.  

 

There are other ways to work on the skills she would work on with Fast ForWord, that I would consider, I think.  There might be things her speech therapist could do, or her ABA therapists.  

 

I say this -- as someone where my older (not the one with autism) son looked like someone who could benefit from Fast ForWord, but he got the same benefit from speech therapy, and I do not have a reason to think he would have been better off to do Fast ForWord.  

 

But -- if the information you are getting, is that this is really the program that she needs to make progress, then that is different.  But -- if you might be able to get her LIPS, I think that is also an option.  And then people say Earobics is good, too.  

 

But my opinion of Fast ForWord is not that it is something where I would go to this amount of trouble, and potentially make you less likely to be seen as reasonable by the school down the road.  It would not be worth it to me, from my own opinions and experiences.  But -- if Fast ForWord is worth, then it is worth it.

 

I also think -- if you are worried about her cooperation, and if Scottish Rite may not be equipped to work with kids who are sometimes not as cooperative as expected for their age, I don't know that I would expect that to be something that would be a really good experience.  They SHOULD work well with her, but that doesn't mean that they will.  I would look into this.  If you find they work great with kids who maybe need a little extra motivation etc, then I would not worry.  But, you might not hear that.  

 

My son's ABA therapist also has access to programs that work on auditory discrimination, and I think I would ask there -- maybe it is outside of their expertise, but maybe it is not.  Or maybe they can ask their supervisor or whatever.  

 

I think I would definitely look at all other options, and only go this route if I was convinced it would be worth it and that the Scottish Rite center would be cooperative, too, once she was there.  

 

But honestly -- I would not throw away my relationship with the school, to try to make something happen with someone who is being difficult and might be difficult anyway.  

 

I agree about the need to be "that parent," but still, I think there is a time to do it, and a time to not do it, and I am not sure this is the right reason.  But, it might be the right reason, if this program is going to be that amazing.  

 

When I looked at Fast ForWord, not everybody got the amazing results, and there really are other options (like Lips and speech therapy and Earobics, probably more, but that is off the top of my head).   

 

[Crimson Wife]

Well, the report is as clear as mud. "Feet in the freezer, head in the oven" indeed. Her standard scores range from <1st percentile up to >99th percentile depending on specific test. The school psychologist couldn't calculate a FSIQ on the WPPSI because there was too wide a variation among the individual subtests. The general pattern that emerged I would say is accurate- strong on visio-spatial reasoning & math, weak on language especially anything where she had to verbally explain her answer.

 

They couldn't run the C-TOPP because she failed the district audiologist's hearing test. So I have to get a hearing test done through our insurance and then they'll do the C-TOPP.

 

Cooperation and focus issues were noted on almost every single component.

 

I think what she really needs is not an IEE but a specialized neuropsych eval by somebody who understands 2E issues. Somebody who can make heads or tails of scores that are so all over the map.

[kbutton]

:grouphug: No advice, but I am sorry it's not very cut and dry.

[KSinNS]

Good luck, and hugs. 

 

If blistering sarcasm gets you through stuff, you may find this funny. (If you are feeling vulnerable, maybe don't read it). 

 

http://www.lexistential.com/2012/11/ways-to-make-your-next-iep-awesome/

[Crimson Wife]

 

If blistering sarcasm gets you through stuff, you may find this funny. (If you are feeling vulnerable, maybe don't read it). 

 

http://www.lexistential.com/2012/11/ways-to-make-your-next-iep-awesome/

 

Thanks for the laugh! It wasn't a bad meeting, and the goals that the school came up with are very similar to the goals that her ABA team is working on, so I do think they're appropriate for DD.

 

What I need to do is start researching who might be able to figure out what is going on with DD given that the Eides are currently not accepting new patients on their waitlist.

[Lecka]

Wow, that is a huge score range.  I am glad the goals seem appropriate.  I hope the hearing test goes well and you don't have to wait too long to get the CTOPP.  I hope things work out with Scottish Rite, too, with her report the way it came out.  

 

 

[PeterPan]

Well, the report is as clear as mud. "Feet in the freezer, head in the oven" indeed. Her standard scores range from <1st percentile up to >99th percentile depending on specific test. The school psychologist couldn't calculate a FSIQ on the WPPSI because there was too wide a variation among the individual subtests. The general pattern that emerged I would say is accurate- strong on visio-spatial reasoning & math, weak on language especially anything where she had to verbally explain her answer.

 

They couldn't run the C-TOPP because she failed the district audiologist's hearing test. So I have to get a hearing test done through our insurance and then they'll do the C-TOPP.

 

Cooperation and focus issues were noted on almost every single component.

 

I think what she really needs is not an IEE but a specialized neuropsych eval by somebody who understands 2E issues. Somebody who can make heads or tails of scores that are so all over the map.

Can you get that hearing testing with a place that is good at CAPD?  Well bummer is, the university we went to didn't want you if you had autism.  That doesn't make sense to me, because what are you supposed to do if you have both?  Anyways, it's just a thought.  

[Crimson Wife]

Can you get that hearing testing with a place that is good at CAPD?  Well bummer is, the university we went to didn't want you if you had autism.  That doesn't make sense to me, because what are you supposed to do if you have both?  Anyways, it's just a thought.  

 

Our current insurance doesn't cover CAPD testing unfortunately. Finding an audiologist to test her for CAPD at just-turned-6 may be tricky as well. I know the Aud.D. who tested my oldest child won't test kids until they're 8.

[PeterPan]

Our current insurance doesn't cover CAPD testing unfortunately. Finding an audiologist to test her for CAPD at just-turned-6 may be tricky as well. I know the Aud.D. who tested my oldest child won't test kids until they're 8.

The university near us won't test till 7, but they did some of the tests on him anyway when I took him in for the regular hearing eval.  That's why I went to them, because I figured if there were indications we might as well be at the right place.  

 

Half the CAPD screening tool is stuff you'll flunk as a dyslexic.  It's sort of a curious overlap.  I hope you can get it sorted out.  Do you think she failed the audiologist screening because of compliance? Hearing deficit?

[Tokyomarie]

7 or 8 is usually the earliest that an audiologist will do the full CAPD testing, but as Elizabeth mentioned, they sometimes (often?) will screen younger children. My younger two were seen at a university (I believe it was probably the same clinic that tested Elizabeth's son) years ago. My daughter was 10yo and had the full testing done. My son was 4.5 and they did a screening.

[Mrs. Tharp]

Was any kind of SDI recommended to help her with her focus and cooperation issues?  It sounds like they are affecting her ability to receive an education.

 

The psychologist who did the district evaluation should have provided interpretations of the results, and recommendations based on those interpretations, that made sense. Those recommendations should have then been incorporated into the IEP. If he/she did not, may I suggest finding a psychologist to interpret & make recommendations based on the current evaluation before you pursue an IEE? It would be cheaper than paying for a full IEE yourself , and you'll need to explain to the district what you believe is inaccurate in her current evaluation before they'll pay for the IEE themselves.

[Crimson Wife]

 

  Do you think she failed the audiologist screening because of compliance? Hearing deficit?

 

She had a full audiology exam 4 years ago at the local Children's Hospital and while she wasn't cooperative with the normal testing protocol, they used a machine to do some sort of in-ear measurements. All those came back within the normal range. So if there is a physical hearing issue, it's subtle. But a subtle hearing issue could explain why she's mixing up phonemes that the school SLP felt were rather unusual to confuse.

 

My guess is that it's much more likely she has an auditory processing deficit rather than physical hearing one, but I'm not an audiologist. I see the pediatrician tomorrow about getting a referral.

[kbutton]

Our younger son (not the one with ASD) is just now in the age range to test for CAPD, but he did receive a SCAN III test (or something like that). It gave us a pretty good idea that CAPD testing needs to be in our future.