DD's dyslexic...right? Confused.

[pitterpatter]

DD confuses me. I've suspected she may be dyslexic for a couple of years now, but some pretty major symptoms just don't fit. The ones that confound me the most are that while her reading may be choppier than many children her age and she makes a lot of the mistakes noted below, her reading and listening comprehension are two of her greatest academic strengths. She also has very good vocabulary and an excellent memory. These strengths particularly shine within the literary realm. It's doesn't take much effort for her to memorize a poem or other block of text. (She is the only girl in her entire multi-level Girl Scout troop, which goes up to Cadettes, who can recite the Girl Scout Law with 100% accuracy. Most don't even come close. After just a couple of times reading it, she pretty well had it memorized.) We use WWE2 and she does very well with dictation (aside from spelling). We also use AAS and she has little problem remembering the cards (she does have more problems implementing the rules during spelling than I would like). As I mentioned, her vocabulary is very good. DH and I constantly chuckle at some of the words she uses. (She listens to a lot of older literature via audiobooks.) Though DD may not be a smooth reader and makes many minor mistakes, I wouldn't say she is a struggling reader. She reads ATOS level 4 point whatever books aloud during school with enjoyment. I have her read aloud about 30 minutes a day where I have her correct pretty much every mistake. She reads independently as well. We use Rod & Staff 2 for grammar. We complete the majority orally. The lessons are generally easy for her. She does pretty well with WWE 2 narrations.

 

I'm not happy with her spelling, but it's not horrendous. She just doesn't master some of the words as quickly as I would like and she often makes "careless" mistakes. (I realize they aren't truly careless, if she has dyslexia.) We use Singapore Math. We started 3A yesterday. Her main issue with math is that she can be so darn slow. She can handle the material, but she makes numerous "careless" mistakes. She often doesn't remember shortcut strategies, but her brain does get creative in how she mentally solves some problems. I think she has some attention-deficit issues going on too that effect her focus during math. She knows her math facts, but she can be slow to spit them out. She'll often throw out an incorrect answer and then immediately follow-up with the correct one. She does this with other subjects as well. She does not like the act of writing, but she does just fine with it once she gets going. Her handwriting is pretty nice and she generally forms her letters correctly (some end up backwards, but it depends on the day).

 

While these issues and others have nagged at me over the years, I've just tried to make adjustments in her education to cultivate her strengths and work more on her weaknesses. I would consider DD a pretty bright girl. (Early on, we actually thought she might be gifted.) However, some things are showing up during Girl Scouts that I find rather disconcerting. I am her Brownie troop leader, so I work directly with our entire troop. Last night, we worked on the Money Manager badge. We were working on something dealing with the cost of school supplies. Each girl chose an item and then highlighted it on a list that had retail and sale prices. DD's retail price was 0.19, which she read just fine. When I went around again for the sale price, she said two dollars when the price was 0.17. Whoa...what?! I had her try again and she said the same thing. I must have given her a puzzled look because she grew very frustrated and DH (my helper last night pointed to the number) and she got teary and upset. She started rambling and we realized she was giving us the difference, but misspoke and said dollars instead of cents. She didn't understand why we didn't understand. It is not unusual for her to burst into tears due to frustration in people not understanding her. Anyway, she made other mistakes too that she shouldn't have...ones she doesn't make at home. She is noticeably slower in providing answers than the other girls in her troop. Her answers can be completely off the wall or repeats. DH and I walk out scratching our heads.

 

I'm not sure what I want out of this post, except that I just want to get it out. DH is probably an undiagnosed dyslexic (okay, there's really no probably in my mind or his). I mean, DD's dyslexic too, right? I'm not sure what to do. I want her to have a rigorous education and she does quite well in many regards.

 

I copy/pasted the following list from http://www.dys-add.com/dyslexia.html#anchorSymptomsRSReading. I've highlighted things that are true of DD in red and have bolded the ones she does the most.

 

 

Reading

• Can read a word on one page, but won't recognize it on the next page. --> Used to be more of a problem. Now, is more limited to odd sounding/unusual words or names.
• Knows phonics, but can't—or won't—sound out an unknown word. --> More like might complain about it (or just wants me to tell her). This isn't always the case. She'll often attempt an unknown word and succeed in figuring it out. I have her use AAS rules to dissect unknown words.
• Slow, labored, inaccurate reading of single words in isolation (when there is no story line or pictures to provide clues). --> I'm lukewarm on this. She might miss some, but not the majority.
• • When they misread, they often say a word that has the same first and last letters, and the same shape, such as house-horse or beach-bench. --> I need to pay more attention to see how true this is when she reads.
  • They may insert or leave out letters, such as could–cold or star–stair. (She just told me that she just realized the pet polar bear's name in the book she's reading is Flurry, not Furry.)
  • They may say a word that has the same letters, but in a different sequence, such as who–how, lots–lost, saw–was, or girl–grill.
• When reading aloud, reads in a slow, choppy cadence (not in smooth phrases), and often ignores punctuation. --> Yeah, but it's not horrible...she reads with expression, but does miss some punctuation. Maybe a couple of times in a 30-minute reading session.
• Becomes visibly tired after reading for only a short time. --> True when she was younger. Not so much now.
• Reading comprehension may be low due to spending so much energy trying to figure out the words. Listening comprehension is usually significantly higher than reading comprehension. --> Totally the opposite. Her reading and listening comp is one of her strongest academic strengths.
• Directionality confusion shows up when reading and when writing.
• • b–d confusion is a classic warning sign. One points to the left, the other points to the right, and they are left–right confused. --> Yes, but this is off and on. She won't have problems for days/weeks and then poof, it shows up again. She'll also write lowercase p backwards sometimes, but no other letters are problematic.
  • b–p, n–u, or m–w confusion. One points up, the other points down. That's also directionality confusion.
• Substitutes similar-looking words, even if it changes the meaning of the sentence, such as sunrise for surprise, house for horse, while for white, wanting for walking.
• When reading a story or a sentence, substitutes a word that means the same thing but doesn't look at all similar, such as trip for journey, fast for speed, or cry for weep.
• Misreads, omits, or even adds small function words, such as an, a, from, the, to, were, are, of.
• Omits or changes suffixes, saying need for needed, talks for talking, or late for lately (Not all suffixes, nor every time. More with making a word plural when it's not or the other way around. I notice a problem with -ly on occasion.)

 

[hornblower]

Is there a reason you don't want to pursue a professional diagnosis?

btw, "dyslexia" is no longer a diagnosis. It's so much more sophisticated & they'll tease out various elements that might be problematic - or perhaps are a bit off but still within the norm, kwim? Also, you might be looking at executive function or short term memory deficits or written output ... or you may have eye issues & she may need some eye strengthening exercises.

[kentuckymom]

I have a diagnosed dyslexic, and my DH is certain he's dyslexic, though he never got an official diagnosis. I'm really far from being an expert in dyslexia, but I do know that a) it manifests differently in different people and b) other things (like vision processing issues) can manifest like and/or go alongside and complicate dyslexia. It sounds like you've done a good job so far working with your DD and helping her make up for any deficits she might have. My advice is to have her evaluated by a professional - the best thing would be a neuropsych who evaluates for learning disabilities (as opposed to just getting her screened for dyslexia specifically). That should give you a better idea of what is causing her problems and how you can proceed to give her the best possible education. She's still quite young, and, if she does need specific intervention you're not giving her right now, this is a great time to start.

[pitterpatter]

We just don't want her labeled without good reason in the event it could limit her in some way during her adult life. (DH is particularly against it.)

 

Is there a reason you don't want to pursue a professional diagnosis?

btw, "dyslexia" is no longer a diagnosis. It's so much more sophisticated & they'll tease out various elements that might be problematic - or perhaps are a bit off but still within the norm, kwim? Also, you might be looking at executive function or short term memory deficits or written output ... or you may have eye issues & she may need some eye strengthening exercises.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I understand your concern about a label, but times have changed.  If you go through a private evaluator no one else needs to know the results unless you choose to share.  The label is not your goal.  Answers to what is really going on so you can help her is the goal.  My DH is also an undiagnosed dyslexic.  He hates labels.  But he was raised in the ps system, as was I, and anyone with learning issues was considered disabled, not bright with some challenges.  The label itself could be crippling.  

 

Things are changing now, though.  And private evaluation is not the same as a label.  Private eval done by a truly qualified professional will help a parent to find out as many of the ins and outs of what your child's weaknesses may be but ALSO find out the strengths, many of which may be untapped at this point.  Additionally, getting that eval may help your child later on if she needs special accomodations for testing, such as extra time.  Have you read any books on dyslexia and other learning challenges?  As mentioned upthread, dyslexia manifests in many different ways, depending on the child and their other strengths and weaknesses. 

 

For instance, DS10 has had an advanced vocabulary from a very young age.  Anything he hears he remembers, as well, so if we play a movie, or read a passage from a book, he can quote the material back verbatim, with full comprehension, even months later.  He has great strengths, some we didn't even know existed until the evaluation.  Those strengths masked his weaknesses for years but the weaknesses were there from the beginning.  We just didn't recognize them because his strengths were able to compensate, for the most part.  He is dyslexic and has some other issues that eventually tripped him up.  If we had known sooner we could have provided proper, targeted remediation much earlier while also pressing harder to provide him with access to learning through his strengths.  I regret the time lost.  Same with DD.

 

Does your child have dyslexia?  Possibly.  Whatever the issues causing her to struggle in certain areas, getting an evaluation may help you to stop guessing and start moving forward with a more targeted plan for how to help.  No one else ever needs to know the results unless you choose to share.  

 

FWIW, my daughter was grateful for the evaluation  and the diagnosis.  It finally gave her answers to why she was so capable in many areas (mechanics, art, outside the box thinking, physical activities), but struggled with things like spelling, reading, auditory only instruction, etc.  She is not ashamed and I have been careful never to make her feel like there is any reason to feel ashamed.  There are a lot of very bright, incredibly talented people that are dyslexic.  In fact, certain colleges and companies are now seeking dyslexics (and yes, that label is now not really used for evaluation anymore since it doesn't really address all the nuances that might be going on).  The number of businesses and colleges seeking these learners is small but growing.  Why?  Because they frequently have strengths that an NT person just doesn't have.  DS, DD and DH have strengths that blow me away.  They think differently than I do, and in a good way.  I may have done way better in a standard ps classroom, but I do not function nearly as well as they do in so many other environments.  

 

Good luck and best wishes....

[hornblower]

If you do your own testing & pay for it yourself, the results are yours to do with as you like. You don't have to disclose them to anyone, & just use them to guide in selecting curriculum choices or instructional methods or interventions. 

 

At that age, you can even prevaricate with your child about the purpose & outcome of the testing.

I get the whole label thing. I was in the same boat but 20/20 hindsight, I think sooner would have been better. Dd did get the assessment done when she was 18 & she now has accommodations in her college classes. Her diagnosis is not hindering her - her LD hinders her. The diagnosis & subsequent accommodations HELP her.

Also, when kids are significantly off the norm with their peers & they become aware of it, you can bet they'll add their own label. For that matter, so will peers, teachers, employers, professors .... the label might be unmotivated, flake, dumb or other unhelpful and unkind words.


ETA - the testing also disclosed that dd is significantly gifted in one area so she's a 2E child. Totally didn't see that. Assessments aren't all about finding deficits - they might show you amazing talent levels in some areas which you can leverage to overcome other issues & which can also serve as a focus of positive self talk about strengths.

[TxMama]

Being formally Identified with a learning disability will not limit her in adult life.

 

Formal identification allows you to teach her in the best way for her particular learning difference, which may or may not be dyslexia.

 

It allows her the time to learn how to advocate for her learning difference. My kids embraced their formal diagnosis. It is much easier to say "I am dyslexic", then to think something must be terribly wrong with your brain since you cannot do something that the other kids can do easily.

 

In college, formal identification means that accommodations must be offered. My dyslexic college age daughter gets time and half for all tests, which means she can earn an A instead of settling for a C or worse.

 

If you are seeing something that worries you, get the testing. Peace of mind is priceless.

 

Best of luck, Mama.

 

 

[LizzyBee]

It sounds like she might have a slow processing speed, and unfortunately, there's not any proven treatment for that yet. Two of my kids are dyslexic; one has slow processing speed and her dyslexia is mild, and the other one has severe dyslexia and fast processing speed.

 

The one with the slow processing speed also gets frustrated easily, and she absolutely hates feeling put on the spot. She has excellent reading comprehension and memory.  She reads slowly, but remembers all of it. From your post, your dd sounds a lot like her.

 

ETA: I told my dd that she was dyslexic before we had her evaluation done. I was confident enough from the reading I'd done. Her face lit up! It's true what the experts say - kids would rather be dyslexic (or whatever the case may be) than stupid. Even if they never vocalize it, many kids with LDs think they're stupid and they're terrified that other people will find it out. 

[LaughingCat]

As far as the missing words when word lists bullet point - I just want to point out it doesn't mean they have to miss the majority to fall in that category - just more than a normal reader would. 

 

Here is a phonetic vs. sight word reading test from ElizabethB's page that might give you a better idea if she's struggling with that.

[pitterpatter]

Thanks, everyone...I appreciate the comments and advice. I'm digesting them.

 

Does anyone have a link to quality private evaluation centers across the US?

[ElizabethB]

I would rule out vision first with a COVD eye doctor, www.covd.org, get a fellow FCOVD If possible.

[Heathermomster]

Agree with getting the eyes checked by a COVD. She sounds possibly like a stealth dyslexic. What materials did you use to teach her to read? How old is this child?

 

Typically, the reading and writing expectations jump in fourth grade and that is when the wheels fall off for kids with stealth dyslexia.

 

I wouldn't worry about a label. The label is what you make of it. Testing is about enabling you the parent/educator to make sound curriculum and teaching choices that benefit your child. To find a neuropsych, Google your area and quietly ask others. You can also call and speak with testers. Try to get a feel for who they are and discover whether they support homeschoolers. Try to get one that is experienced with the gifted population.

[pitterpatter]

Do you mention any concerns when you make an appointment with a COVD? I did mention to our pediatrician once that sometimes it seemed like DD's eyes stuck a little before they moved...not all of the time, every now and again. DH never saw it and the pediatrician did some exercises and checked her eyes. She didn't notice anything unusual. She did give me a Post-It with another doctor's name on it. This was back when DD was six, I think. I never followed up because I thought I was seeing things and she passed the basic vision test with flying colors. I haven't noticed it recently.

 

DD will be eight at the beginning of May. We started with 100 Easy Lessons when she was 4.5 years old. As much as I wanted to like it, I couldn't get behind the method and DD wasn't liking it after the first couple of lessons. We switched to Hooked on Phonics, which I regret. I hadn't discovered this board yet, as I started homeschooling DD with the intention of sending her to public school. (I'm pretty sure I would have chosen something different had I known all of the choices available.) I was just trying to give her a leg up. I also worked on sight words with her. She really enjoyed HOP, which I supplemented with fun, cutesy worksheets/activities that matched the lessons. It seemed as though she did well with it. After completing HOP K, 1 and 2, I just had her read aloud everyday for a while. I have been vigilant in finding books on her level to read since day one...whether that be Bob Books, Nora Gaydos, picture books, leveled readers, early chapter, mini novels, whatever. She's always read more than the silly little stories in HOP. Then, we started AAS (in earnest when she was six...we had actually started before then, but my mom became majorly sick and DD and I lived with her for several months and I had to drop it). That's been our primary phonics instruction since then. We are finished up AAS 2 right now. Will start 3 next month.

 

Taking into account that DD has been read to since birth (I'm not just talking bedtime reading, but an immense amount of reading) and is a book hound, I thought reading would have come to her way easier than it did. There was never truly a light bulb moment...more flashes here and there. I'm wondering whether she does as well as she does because she's my only child and essentially has had one-on-one tutoring since she was four.

 

 

Agree with getting the eyes checked by a COVD. She sounds possibly like a stealth dyslexic. What materials did you use to teach her to read? How old is this child?

Typically, the reading and writing expectations jump in fourth grade and that is when the wheels fall off for kids with stealth dyslexia.

I wouldn't worry about a label. The label is what you make of it. Testing is about enabling you the parent/educator to make sound curriculum and teaching choices that benefit your child. To find a neuropsych, Google your area and quietly ask others. You can also call and speak with testers. Try to get a feel for who they are and discover whether they support homeschoolers. Try to get one that is experienced with the gifted population.

 

[AHASRADA]

Agreeing with all the PPs that knowing exactly the issues you are dealing with is such a relief, to both you and your child, and makes teaching so much easier. My dd was also relieved to have a name for her struggles and to know that her brain works in a different but beautiful way that just happens to make reading and spelling more difficult, but also gives her many other strengths. I think it was also therapeutic for dh to see himself in her diagnosis and start to process his own challenges in school.

 

As you search for an evaluator, you can also check with your local university's educational psychology department. We went that route, being evaluated by PhD students under the supervision of a licensed professor. They were very thorough, since their work was being judged and graded, plus since the professor signed off on the evaluation, all the data was being checked over twice. It was significantly less expensive than private testing, which is why we chose that route. That said, if money isn't a major issue, I would seek out a professional who is understanding and supportive of homeschooling. Their attitude can make a world of difference in their approach and recommendations.

 

BTW, it is not unusual for dyslexics to have a great vocabulary if they are listening to audio books and read-alouds. I also suspect her spelling isn't "horrendous" because you've been using an OG program (AAS), which I would definitely continue.

 

[pitterpatter]

Yes, I think AAS may be key here. We have never used any other spelling program. AAS has never been a picnic for us. I've hated the danged tiles since day one. They have been a distraction to DD. (I also had the board propped up on the floor, so she rocked back and forth, back and forth.) After a while, I dropped them (except for me teaching the lesson) and DD just used a white board and then a Boogie Board. I've moved the board to the table and recently have started letting DD use the tiles again. She's a little more mature and does better with them now. The board sitting on the table is a huge help. I've recently watched the Barton demo and think maybe taking the tiles away was a mistake...especially with multi-syllable words. I constantly adapt how we use AAS in terms of scheduling and execution (will DD use the tiles, the Boogie Board, paper and pencil, how many phrases/sentences, how we review, etc.)

 

DH is not a good speller for obvious reasons. I'm not as good as I would like (much better than DH, though, and probably typical, but I'm generally discontent with the public school education I received), so it was important to us that DD's spelling program be rules based. I think AAS has helped in more ways than one. I think we're lucky I chose and have stuck with it.

 

 

Agreeing with all the PPs that knowing exactly the issues you are dealing with is such a relief, to both you and your child, and makes teaching so much easier. My dd was also relieved to have a name for her struggles and to know that her brain works in a different but beautiful way that just happens to make reading and spelling more difficult, but also gives her many other strengths. I think it was also therapeutic for dh to see himself in her diagnosis and start to process his own challenges in school. As you search for an evaluator, you can also check with your local university's educational psychology department. We went that route, being evaluated by PhD students under the supervision of a licensed professor. They were very thorough, since their work was being judged and graded, plus since the professor signed off on the evaluation, all the data was being checked over twice. It was significantly less expensive than private testing, which is why we chose that route. That said, if money isn't a major issue, I would seek out a professional who is understanding and supportive of homeschooling. Their attitude can make a world of difference in their approach and recommendations. BTW, it is not unusual for dyslexics to have a great vocabulary if they are listening to audio books and read-alouds. I also suspect her spelling isn't "horrendous" because you've been using an OG program (AAS), which I would definitely continue.

 

[Tanaqui]

We just don't want her labeled without good reason in the event it could limit her in some way during her adult life. (DH is particularly against it.)

 

Would you prefer that she gets a professional label of dyslexia, or that she comes up with her own label of "stupid" or "dumb"? Because that's the choice. We all have labels. Some of those labels are useful. Some aren't. One of those three labels will help her. Two of them will do great harm.

 

 

[pitterpatter]

Well, we are homeschooling and those words have been banned in this house since DD was born, so I don't see this being an issue right now. The girls in DD's GS troop are not like that at all. Family her age are not mean-spirited either.

 

I'm more concerned with labeling her with something that she would be required to list on very specific applications as an adult...military or other government-sponsored careers. I have no idea what her aspirations will be one day.

 

If she is dyslexic (or whatever the PC term is), she seems high-functioning. She has no clue anything is "wrong." I don't talk about it in front of her. She is not self-conscious about her reading (which I think is pretty decent and not currently limiting her).

 

 

Would you prefer that she gets a professional label of dyslexia, or that she comes up with her own label of "stupid" or "dumb"? Because that's the choice. We all have labels. Some of those labels are useful. Some aren't. One of those three labels will help her. Two of them will do great harm.

 

[Tanaqui]

Well, we are homeschooling and those words have been banned in this house since DD was born, so I don't see this being an issue right now. The girls in DD's GS troop are not like that at all. Family her age are not mean-spirited either.

 

Take it from my personal experience - children don't need to explicitly hear these words from other people to work out that they might apply to them.

 

I'm more concerned with labeling her with something that she would be required to list on very specific applications as an adult...military or other government-sponsored careers. I have no idea what her aspirations will be one day.

 

 

My brother-in-law is dyslexic and in the military. They confirmed it when they tested him, honestly I'd suspected for a long time because his reading and spelling is so very poor. So long as her academics are satisfactory, that shouldn't be a problem. I'm on the army website right now, and this is what they say about it:

 

 

Current or history of academic skills or perceptual defects secondary to organic or functional mental disorders, including, but not limited to dyslexia, that interfere with school or employment. Applicants demonstrating passing academic and employment performance without utilization or recommendation of academic and/or work accommodations at any time in the previous 12 months may be qualified.

 

 

So there you go. If, as an adult, she is capable of functioning without accommodations, she's probably in the clear for the military. And if she DOES need accommodations, the only way she's going to get them is with a diagnosis.

[ElizabethB]

All of those mistakes also happen to my students who were taught with sight words. HOP and leveled readers have enough sight words to cause those problems. It sounds like you still have reasons to rule out a vision component, but my students without vision problems progress fastest when I stop all outside reading and focus on just reading words lists and nonsense words, overlearning the phonics and learning a strong L to R sounding out pattern, as slow as needed to read every word 100% accurately, speed comes eventually if you work on accuracy.

 

I would stop all reading of sentences and stories for a month and work on word lists and my phonics concentration game, all you need is free and listed at the end of my how to tutor page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

[pitterpatter]

Do you mean that I would pretty much need to cease all schooling and not allow her to read independently for a month?

 

Is this something we could do this summer?

 

Is there an open-and-go curriculum we could try? 

 

 

All of those mistakes also happen to my students who were taught with sight words. HOP and leveled readers have enough sight words to cause those problems. It sounds like you still have reasons to rule out a vision component, but my students without vision problems progress fastest when I stop all outside reading and focus on just reading words lists and nonsense words, overlearning the phonics and learning a strong L to R sounding out pattern, as slow as needed to read every word 100% accurately, speed comes eventually if you work on accuracy.

I would stop all reading of sentences and stories for a month and work on word lists and my phonics concentration game, all you need is free and listed at the end of my how to tutor page:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

[Pen]

You could do what ElizabethB suggests now and at the same time work on art and other hands on schooling, plus audio and visual materials could be used. Math problems or hands on math could also be done. Something like SOTW audio, plus science via DVD and maybe nature study or gardening, plus hands on art, and some math that does not involve word reading....

[Heathermomster]

You can try what ElizabethB suggests for several reasons. Your DD likely requires direct phonics instruction. Taking the time to learn the phonics will give your child confidence when approaching unknown words and help stop the guessing. Secondly, the guessing is a bad habit that can be hard to break. Something like 95-98% of sight words may be read phonetically. If you were to try a program like Barton, all reading for the time being would cease anyways.

[Pen]

I just took a look at your website/blog. Wow! You guys are doing a lot!  I think a phonics program like ElizabethB's would be worth trying, along with cutting back on what you are having her do for a month.  Also, the books you mention and where I am familiar with the book are not carefully controlled progressive phonics building readers which she may need if she does have dyslexia.  Especially if, as you say, she is a good memorizer, she may be using memorization to get around reading trouble (perhaps a lot more than you even realize she is doing it, or even beyond what she realizes herself.)

 

 

The Modern Speller (Dictation)
A Word a Day, Grade 2
Rod & Staff: English, Grade 2
The Elson Readers: Book One
The Elson Readers: Book One, Teacher's Guide
The Elson Readers: Book Two
The Elson Readers: Book Two, Teacher's Guide
General Reading/Literature
Good English: Oral and Written, Book 1
All About Spelling, Level 2
Spellwell A
Spellwell AA
Singapore Primary Math Textbook 2B STD ED
Singapore Primary Math Workbook 2B STD ED
Singapore Primary Math Home Instructor's Guide 2B STD ED
Singapore Math Intensive Practice US ED 2B
Singapore Math Challenging Word Problems for Primary Mathematics 2
Singapore Math Extra Practice for Primary Math STD ED 2
Singapore/Fan Learning Publications Process Skills in Problem Solving L2
Chemistry
History Odyssey: Early Modern, Level 1
Historical Fiction
Song School Spanish
Primarily Logic
The Story of the Orchestra
The New Nine-Note Recorder Method
Picture Study Portfolios: Giotto
Home Art Studio: First Grade

 

 

Reading List, 2013-14
(Beginning: June 28, 2013)

Buzz Boy and Fly Guy - Tedd Arnold
Fly High, Fly Guy! - Tedd Arnold
Fly Guy and the Frankenfly - Tedd Arnold
Fly Guy vs. the Flyswatter! - Tedd Arnold
Hi! Fly Guy - Tedd Arnold
I Spy Fly Guy! - Tedd Arnold
Ride, Fly Guy, Ride! - Tedd Arnold
Shoo, Fly Guy! - Tedd Arnold
Super Fly Guy - Tedd Arnold
There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed Fly Guy - Tedd Arnold
I Have a Garden - Bob Barner
Clouds - Marion Dane Bauer
Snow - Marion Dane Bauer
Wind - Marion Dane Bauer
Oscar Otter - Nathaniel Benchley
And I Mean It, Stanley - Crosby Bonsall
Clifford's Busy Week - Norman Bridwell
The Fly Flew In - David Catrow
Max Spaniel: Best in Show - David Catrow
Max Spaniel: Funny Lunch - David Catrow
Sam and Pepper's Tree House - Eugene Bradley Coco
Pete the Cat and His Four Groovy Buttons - James Dean
Autumn Leaves Are Falling - Maria Fleming
Little Red Riding Hood - Margaret Hillert
Chester - Syd Hoff
Grizzwold - Syd Hoff
Sammy the Seal - Syd Hoff
Spring Is Here!: A Story About Seeds - Joan Holub
Pup and Hound Hatch an Egg - Susan Hood
I Will Try - Marilyn Janovitz
Cupcake Surprise! - Lynn Maslen Kertell
Anthony and the Girls - Ole Könnecke
Mouse Soup - Arnold Lobel
Mouse Tales - Arnold Lobel
Owl at Home - Arnold Lobel
Small Pig - Arnold Lobel
Uncle Elephant - Arnold Lobel
Unicorn Wings - Mallory Loehr
Sick Day - David McPhail
Seeds Grow! - Angela Shelf Medearis
Little Critter: A Green, Green Garden - Mercer Mayer
Little Critter: Just Critters Who Care - Mercer Mayer
Little Critter: Just Helping My Dad - Mercer Mayer
Little Bear - Elsa Holmelund Minarik
Little Bear's Friend - Else Holmelund Minarik
The Birthday Box - Leslie Patricelli
My New Boy - Joan Phillips
Annie and Snowball and the Book Bugs Club - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Cozy Nest - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Dress-up Birthday - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Grandmother Night - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Magical House - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Pink Surprise - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Prettiest House - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Shining Star - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Surprise Day - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Teacup Club - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Wedding Day - Cynthia Rylant
Annie and Snowball and the Wintry Freeze - Cynthia Rylant
Brownie & Pearl Get Dolled Up - Cynthia Rylant
Brownie & Pearl Grab a Bite - Cynthia Rylant
Brownie & Pearl Make Good - Cynthia Rylant
Brownie & Pearl Take a Dip - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and a Very Merry Christmas - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and Annie's Perfect Pet - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and Mrs. Hopper's House - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Bedtime Thumps - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Best Day of All - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Big Sleepover - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Forever Sea - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Funny Lunch - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Great Grandpas - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Happy Cat -  Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Long Weekend - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Sneaky Crackers - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Tall Tree House - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Tumbling Trip - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Wild Goose Chase - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge and the Wild Wind - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge in Puddle Trouble - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge in the Family Trees - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge in the Green Time - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge in the Sparkle Days - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge Take the Big Test - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge: The First Book - Cynthia Rylant
Henry and Mudge Under the Yellow Moon - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Bake the Cake - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Clear the Decks - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Dance the Dance - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Feed the Fish - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Paint the Porch - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Ring the Bell - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Run the Race - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Toot the Horn - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Walk the Dog - Cynthia Rylant
Mr. Putter & Tabby Write the Book - Cynthia Rylant
Poppleton - Cynthia Rylant
Poppleton and Friends - Cynthia Rylant
Poppleton Forever - Cynthia Rylant
Poppleton in Spring - Cynthia Rylant
Poppleton in Winter - Cynthia Rylant
Puppy Mudge Wants to Play - Cynthia Rylant
Richard Scarry's Watch Your Step, Mr. Rabbit! - Richard Scarry
Boots - Anne Schreiber
Mousetrap - Diane Snowball
Jack and the Box - Art Spiegelman
The Class Pet from the Black Lagoon - Mike Thaler
A Birthday for Cow! - Jan Thomas
Mouse Loves School - Lauren Thompson
Dolphin's Big Leap - Kimberly Weinberger
A Big Guy Took My Ball! - Mo Willems
Elephants Cannot Dance! - Mo Willems
Happy Pig Day! - Mo Willems
I Broke My Trunk! - Mo Willems
Let's Go for a Drive! - Mo Willems
Let's Say Hi to Friends Who Fly! - Mo Willems
Listen to My Trumpet! - Mo Willems
Should I Share My Ice Cream? - Mo Willems
Time to Sleep, Sheep the Sheep! - Mo Willems
Today I Will Fly! - Mo Willems
A Dozen Dogs - Harriet Ziefert

Continually adding more! - Last updated: May 16, 2014

 

 

[pitterpatter]

Could I read history books to her and let her sit next to me to look at the pictures? I don't think she reads along, but she would probably subconsciously read titles and headlines. Could she do History Pockets or 3-D maps that have limited amounts of text on them, but mostly involve coloring, cutting and gluing?

 

I can probably white out narrative text. Some are more like dioramas, or are mostly pictures with moving parts. Like ships sailing across the Atlantic.

 

We are actually coming up on our fourth block, which involved hands-on art, and picture study. Math seems like it involves a lot of reading. Even if we work on telling time, there are the o'clocks. I guess I could read the worksheet off to the side, use a Judy clock to show the times and have her complete the exercises orally. I guess we would have to review and not do word problems, unless I read them to her without her looking at them.

 

No grammar, copy work, writing of any kind. Seems so unfathomable.

 

I'm not opposed, but if there was something I could buy and easily use, that would be preferable.

[pitterpatter]

I need to update my curriculum list. (It's for the entire year, by the way. We aren't doing it all at one time.) We quit using The Elson Readers. She grew out of the lessons in the teacher's guides. We decided not to use Good English and traded in both it and the Modern Speller for WWE (used the end of 1 and are now in 2).

 

I quit updating her reading because we moved to historical fiction this year. The other half was (we rotate 6-week blocks) The Elson Readers, which I traded in for literature study. She's finishing up one for The Stories Julian Tells right now.

 

Her reading book list for our history block coming up in another week was supposed to be The Courage of Sarah Noble and A Lion to Guard Us.

 

You can probably imagine how disconcerting the idea of giving up all reading is for me. Our schooling revolves around books and literature.

 

I haven't gotten up any blog posts for her current schooling this year. My life has gotten so full that I had to drop something. :(

[ElizabethB]

You don't need to be quite so draconian, although I admire the spirit, and the less sentences, the better!

 

For math, you just read the word problems, and read aloud the directions, if they follow along and accidently read a sentence here and there it is OK, it Is just that large amounts of self reading of sentences and stories full of sight words (about 50% of any running text) can trigger the guessing habit, and the less outside reading you do, the faster reading progress you can make.

 

Read aloud any history and science for her, keeping the text so she can't see and follow along but turning it towards her for pictures.

 

If you follow my guide in the link and use my checklist, it is scripted and open and go. Also, if you don't understand anything, just watch my 2 hours worth of spelling lessons first, it is everything you need to know to fully understand and teach the multi-syllable phonics and the spelling rules.

 

I would turn copy work into handwriting practice or grammar practice and work on single words at a time, working on spelling or grammar while copying single words neatly.

[ElizabethB]

Those books would make great read alouds until she can sound out 100% of words with no guessing. It will be less work in the long run, but more work up front. Being able to accurately sound out anything on her own is worth it, IMO.

 

Or, wait a bit on some of the books and substitute something on LibriVox or audible or SOTW audio so someone else can take over some of your read aloud work. I recently outsourced our fiction read aloud to Librivox and am quite happy with it, especially for the price!

[Guest2]

We never tested my Dd who had the most difficulty, or DD who seems to have more of a stealth dyslexia mixed with a few other things going on. My DH was against it, and I wasn't actually sure of the advantages .

We worked on reading for a long time with different programs. Sometime in her 2/3 grade reading of the second grade national catholic reader( an older book with vocabulary she wasn't used to) I noticed that much of her reading was sight words and shapes. What I mean is that she would see a longer word that started with the letter b and read "because" even if the word wasn't close. She would repeat sounding out words, but didn't really get it. She was however very good at covering it up, and even though I worked with her daily, I did not catch on until she was 8. Most of my husbands' family had some sort of reading problem and got help ( they are pilots and science people for the most part with advanced degrees).

 

We decided to try Bartons anyway and though she has done well and gotten through the first eight levels, it was obvious this was just what she needed. I figured since the resale was so high, I didn't have much to loose . If she wasn't dyslexic, it would seem to me that a program designed to teach dyslexics would be a good choice for all imo. Even if you don't pursue testing now, you could still go this route.

[Pen]

 

You can probably imagine how disconcerting the idea of giving up all reading is for me. Our schooling revolves around books and literature.

 

 

 

 

Audiobooks are good!

 

What could be a month try to get this done at age 7, would be a lot easier than losing a month during high school stage.

 

We had to take a whole year-ish at around age 9 for ds's remediation.

 

In general, fixing things early is better for the long run.

[Heathermomster]

Do you mean that I would pretty much need to cease all schooling and not allow her to read independently for a month?

 

Is this something we could do this summer?

 

Is there an open-and-go curriculum we could try? 

No, that is not how remediation works.  You work on phonics/reading instruction with your child.  I would probably lay off grammar.  For copy work, use only sentences and phrases that she can read with zero mistakes.  Continue read alouds, audio books, and hands on activities.  Ask Socratic questions and scribe for her.  

 

Maybe look at AAR or LOE Essentials or WRTR.  Basically, pick any well known and established phonics based reading program and use it with the understanding that it is not designed for dyslexics.  Go back to the beginning and work through the entire alphabet so that she knows the 76 phonograms and ensure there are no gaps.  If you are not seeing progress by June, plan on private testing...OR

 

Contact a local O-G tutor and get a reading assessment.  Afterwards, follow the tutor's advice....OR

 

Get testing now...

 

Many of the moms on this board use a variety of materials.  Perhaps someone will have a better idea about phonics review.  

 

This is totally an aside.  I don't know whether you have tried Immersion Reading with the Kindle yet.  Many people love it.  There is also an Ipad app called VoiceDream that may be used with text based files that provides Immersion Reading with a computer generated voice.  My family started using this two weeks ago, and we use e-pubs from Gutenberg.  The voices are amazing.

[Ellie]

Do you mean that I would pretty much need to cease all schooling and not allow her to read independently for a month?

 

Is this something we could do this summer?

 

Is there an open-and-go curriculum we could try? 

 

I don't want to speak for her, but I don't think that's what she suggested.

 

You can do lots of history and science and math. And I think allowing her to read independently--truly independently, not books suggested by you, or in your presence, or having to do anything with the books she reads--would be fine.

 

And did you see what she *did* suggest?

[TxMama]

I just wanted to add my family's experience to all the wonderful comments regarding remediation and the need to stop independent reading during this time.

 

We started Barton at the beginning of last school year while waiting to get into Scottish Rite for testing. Both kids are moderate dyslexics. My now 9 yo daughter has fully caught up to her age mates in reading and writing ability. Stopping all  independent  reading for a year was difficult for me. However, she can now read everything that she wants with great accuracy. The pay off has been amazing. She can fully participate and benefit from a literature based curriculum.

 

My now 12 year old son, who was reading ok, but unable to spell, has not caught up with his age mates. Watching and hopeful waiting for his reading and spelling to sort itself out has resulted in doing remediation in middle school. This has not yielded the improvements that I had hoped for in the timetable that I was expecting. He had many more years of bad habits and guessing to try to learn to undo. Had I been willing to modify my literature based curriculum and focus on remediation at a younger age, he could be focusing on other aspects of his education in these critical years leading to highschool.

 

[EKS]

We just don't want her labeled without good reason in the event it could limit her in some way during her adult life. (DH is particularly against it.)

 

It's more likely that *not* getting an accurate diagnosis will limit her.  

[pitterpatter]

DD just lets her Kindle read to her when an audiobook is not available (we download from our library via Overdrive). She's on the last Oz book right now. I do the same when I'm folding laundry, etc. sometimes. I'm not much of an audiobook fan for myself, but I prefer to listen to "Brian" from England when I let my Kindle read to me. I'll have to look into this more. I can't envision how we would use it at the moment, but it's always good to know what's out there.

 

This is totally an aside.  I don't know whether you have tried Immersion Reading with the Kindle yet.  Many people love it.  There is also an Ipad app called VoiceDream that may be used with text based files that provides Immersion Reading with a computer generated voice.  My family started using this two weeks ago, and we use e-pubs from Gutenberg.  The voices are amazing.

 

[pitterpatter]

This appeals to me. Although DH and I are talking through getting DD evaluated, it seems as though it might take some time to research and figure out the right place to take her. DD is already familiar with AAS, so using AAR makes sense. However, I really like that with LOE we wouldn't be dropping the rest of LA. We can continue to progress in all areas in a controlled way. Although, I am confused to where the actual reading is with LOE. As far as I can tell, there aren't any readers, stories, etc., but perhaps that's the point. I do see some sentence-reading in the assessment for sample lesson 40. I probably just can't see enough from the samples.

 

Does switching our LA curriculum over to LOE seem like a logical way to proceed? Also, does anyone know how long LOE is supposed to take to complete?

 

Remedial Settings Where Logic of English is Used

• Remedial reading classrooms
• Private learning centers
• Private tutors for school-age and adult learners
• Parents homeschooling students with reading disabilities
• Parents supplementing their children’s education
• Students with Autism
• Students with Dyslexia
• Students with other learning disabilities

 

No, that is not how remediation works.  You work on phonics/reading instruction with your child.  I would probably lay off grammar.  For copy work, use only sentences and phrases that she can read with zero mistakes.  Continue read alouds, audio books, and hands on activities.  Ask Socratic questions and scribe for her.  

 

Maybe look at AAR or LOE Essentials or WRTR.  Basically, pick any well known and established phonics based reading program and use it with the understanding that it is not designed for dyslexics.  Go back to the beginning and work through the entire alphabet so that she knows the 76 phonograms and ensure there are no gaps.  If you are not seeing progress by June, plan on private testing...OR

 

Contact a local O-G tutor and get a reading assessment.  Afterwards, follow the tutor's advice....OR

 

Get testing now...

 

Many of the moms on this board use a variety of materials.  Perhaps someone will have a better idea about phonics review.  

 

This is totally an aside.  I don't know whether you have tried Immersion Reading with the Kindle yet.  Many people love it.  There is also an Ipad app called VoiceDream that may be used with text based files that provides Immersion Reading with a computer generated voice.  My family started using this two weeks ago, and we use e-pubs from Gutenberg.  The voices are amazing.

 

[Ellie]

I can highly recommend Dr. Paul Cates to do testing. He works almost exclusively with homeschoolers; his evaluations include recommendations for instructional materials and methods and everything.

[LaughingCat]

If you're already doing AAS (which is phonics from my understanding) and she is still struggling with reading, I would not switch to a different program meant for typical kids, like LOE.  I would switch to a program meant for a struggling reader.    Dancing Bears or High Noon would be my first suggestions.  I would consider them the 'in-between not quite ready for Barton' suggestions for 'not sure if there is an issue but failing with regular program'.      Also doing the test on Barton to see if she has an underlying issue that LIPS would help (or whatever the remediation is for failing the first sections).

[pitterpatter]

That's the thing. She's not struggling, but perhaps I don't know what struggling is. She can read, pretty well in fact. My notion of a struggling reader is one who truly can't read, is extremely slow and shows obvious distress when trying to read. That is not the case with DD. Her primary issue is that she skips or adds a, and, and the (sometimes has a problem with of). She does this repeatedly, but not every time. She also mixes up where and there, and then and when (which I can totally see as a sight word issue) a lot. She also trades out synonyms, which used to baffle me. I'm not seeing this as much anymore. However, when she starts reading super fast sometimes she kind of rewrites the story. All I have to do is tell her to slow down and read what the author wrote, not what she's creating in her head. She may rearrange the order of said...inverse phrases like said Dad and Dad said. As long as we have gotten to the lesson in AAS, DD can decode nearly every word she encounters. I may need to have her pick it apart...break it into syllables and then note whether they are opened or closed and then make the appropriate sounds. In the books she's been reading, her issues are not with new, bigger, longer words, but with the little mistakes. I may have to have her sound out one or two words per reading session. It's mostly me saying read what this actually says. When I have her really look, she gets it.

 

You know, as I sit here and type, I really think starting over would be the right thing. Perhaps HOP and sight words were really bad, bad, bad for her and she has gaps. I actually have noted improvement since we started using AAS and use its methods to decode. The new words she does have problems with are those with word parts we haven't gotten to with AAS yet. Hmm.

 

Aarrgh, if I wouldn't have been trying to prep DD for public school, we probably would have never gone the sight word and word endings route. Then again, programs like AAR and LOE weren't around then.

 

 

If you're already doing AAS (which is phonics from my understanding) and she is still struggling with reading, I would not switch to a different program meant for typical kids, like LOE.  I would switch to a program meant for a struggling reader.    Dancing Bears or High Noon would be my first suggestions.  I would consider them the 'in-between not quite ready for Barton' suggestions for 'not sure if there is an issue but failing with regular program'.      Also doing the test on Barton to see if she has an underlying issue that LIPS would help (or whatever the remediation is for failing the first sections).

 

[Heathermomster]

That's the thing. She's not struggling, but perhaps I don't know what struggling is. She can read, pretty well in fact. My notion of a struggling reader is one who truly can't read, is extremely slow and shows obvious distress when trying to read. That is not the case with DD. Her primary issue is that she skips or adds a, and, and the (sometimes has a problem with of). She does this repeatedly, but not every time. She also mixes up where and there, and then and when (which I can totally see as a sight word issue) a lot. She also trades out synonyms, which used to baffle me. I'm not seeing this as much anymore. However, when she starts reading super fast sometimes she kind of rewrites the story. All I have to do is tell her to slow down and read what the author wrote, not what she's creating in her head. She may rearrange the order of said...inverse phrases like said Dad and Dad said. As long as we have gotten to the lesson in AAS, DD can decode nearly every word she encounters. I may need to have her pick it apart...break it into syllables and then note whether they are opened or closed and then make the appropriate sounds. In the books she's been reading, her issues are not with new, bigger, longer words, but with the little mistakes. I may have to have her sound out one or two words per reading session. It's mostly me saying read what this actually says. When I have her really look, she gets it.

 

You know, as I sit here and type, I really think starting over would be the right thing. Perhaps HOP and sight words were really bad, bad, bad for her and she has gaps. I actually have noted improvement since we started using AAS and use its methods to decode. The new words she does have problems with are those with word parts we haven't gotten to with AAS yet. Hmm.

 

Aarrgh, if I wouldn't have been trying to prep DD for public school, we probably would have never gone the sight word and word endings route. Then again, programs like AAR and LOE weren't around then.

 

I just found this article over on the AAR/AAS blog.  Marie Ripple addresses guessing at words and how to stop it.

[pitterpatter]

Hah! Yes, this is how I make DD check that she's spelled a word correctly and she HATES it. It's been a stressor between us in using the program, but I continue to make her do it because that's part of the AAS method. I've watched YouTube videos of kids using AAS who don't do it exactly that way. I have often wondered whether I am being too strict with DD. I've allowed her not to do it that way a couple of days to prove that yes, she does indeed need to check her work just so. ;)

 

Like I've said, I have seen improvements since DD started AAS. I think we're just not far enough into the program for it to benefit her more during reading. I've been pretty picky about our usage of it. We move a lot slower than many/most, I think.

 

I just found this article over on the AAR/AAS blog.  Marie Ripple addresses guessing at words and how to stop it.

 

[PeterPan]

Pitterpatter, I started to write you and then deleted.  I deleted because sometimes I'm a little too blunt.  Now I'm tired from checking a feverish child during the night on top of being too blunt!  Anyways, she's not dyslexic. I'm happy to eat crow on that, just saying what you're describing is how my dd was (reads fast, a little crunchy learning to read, very crunchy speller), and she didn't have a phonological processing issue, didn't have a low RAN/RAS, and doesn't have a language processing issue, meaning she didn't get a dyslexia label. You're probably going to get a label you're not expecting and explanations you're not expecting.  You'll be glad you did it, because you'll learn things that will help you work with her better.  If I had the ability to go back and tell myself to suck up, be brave, and buck naysayers when my dd was that age, I would.  You'll be very glad you did and you'll find it becomes a pivotal point in your teaching and interacting with her.

 

It's fine to go ahead and get her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist, just to make sure there's not a vision explanation for part of the symptoms.  It won't explain *all* the symptoms you described, but it could explain some.  You go to COVD, use their locator, and pick one with a good reputation.  I usually suggest starting with just that regular annual appointment because it's inexpensive ($60?) and lets you see if you like the doc, talk about your concerns, and let him *screen* for the convergence, focusing, tracking, etc. rather than plunging in first into an expensive eval.  Then, if there are things that warrant the full developmental vision eval, you'd do that.

 

Some of these programs take too long to get to the big picture for some kids.  If you're doing the lower grade incremental books of LOE, you might switch over to her one year, all in one book.  Your dd is plenty ready for that.  Or get WRTR, SWR, or Susan Anthony's Spelling Dictation book.  I did a lot of SWR with my dd.  We went back and did AAS after her VT.  Really though, I think when you have a super bright, low processing speed dc who needs explicit instruction and lots of interaction for things to stick but maybe doesn't have a phonological processing disorder or language disorder, slowing down incrementally the way some of the programs do isn't helpful.  With that type of dc you actually speed up.  We did lots of dictation, like a full page written a day.  Dictation was EXTREMELY helpful to my dd in cementing things. In the SWR manual we have spelling diagnostic/placement tests that generate two scores, an overall and a mastery.  The *mastery* score is what dictation pushed up on my dd.  I found she needed lots of exposure, visual exposure, in context.  She needed to be *using* the words and AAS doesn't really push that as hard as you will if you just flat do a lot of dictation.

 

Definitely get evals and see what's going on.  I took my dd to someone good with dyslexia, because I felt like it was the only way to get that cleared up in my mind.  If you can find a neuropsych, they'll do more extensive testing.  Private will be less than through a hospital, but obviously your insurance plan will decide your method too.  Usually the docs will talk on the phone with you for a few minutes if you call and leave a message.  You'll sort out pretty quickly that way who might be good with your dc.  

 

You are right to want evals, and I'll tell you again.  My story is that I looked into them when my dd was in 1st and I let the secretary on the other end of the phone dissuade me with her "well if you really want to, but it's really expensive" junk.  DUMBEST THING EVER.  You are going to be SO glad you did this.  Might leave you in shock a while, but you'll be glad you did.  Get someone who spends time with you and who is not rabidly anti-homeschooling.

 

 

[Heathermomster]

Hah! Yes, this is how I make DD check that she's spelled a word correctly and she HATES it. It's been a stressor between us in using the program, but I continue to make her do it because that's part of the AAS method. I've watched YouTube videos of kids using AAS who don't do it exactly that way. I have often wondered whether I am being too strict with DD. I've allowed her not to do it that way a couple of days to prove that yes, she does indeed need to check her work just so. ;)

 

Like I've said, I have seen improvements since DD started AAS. I think we're just not far enough into the program for it to benefit her more during reading. I've been pretty picky about our usage of it. We move a lot slower than many/most, I think.

Well, be patient and work at her pace. I expect if you both apply the methods used with AAS and deliberately slow down, the reading will improve. I'd bribe or come up with a reward system to encourage her. My DD considers spelling and checking the words to be a game.

[1shortmomto4]

I don't see anyone suggesting that perhaps you do a little research on right brained/visual spatial learner.  While there may be some traits towards the dyslexia realm and the familial connection, I'm seeing a different picture here being described.  When I see "not fast on responding to math facts" or describing the approach to answering a math question a little different than the average bear, I think visual spatial.  I see a child that comes up with the answers in a different way.  I see a child that doesn't meet the time table for learning to read - which tends to be a wee bit later.  I also read that you had to take some time away from phonics instruction to care for your family so perhaps there is a delay in getting through the lessons - which is okay. 

 

How is her handwriting?  Does she enjoy writing or is this a chore, too?  When she is doing math do you find that she seems to "roll" her eyeballs upwards as if searching for something, and then comes out with the answer?  is she seem to have more empathy for others? or very heart broken when others offend her?  Is she sensitive to things like scratchy socks, seams in clothing?

 

Lots of great ideas have been given thus far and perhaps an evaluation is required.  Dyslexia comes in many forms (I know this firsthand with 3 of my 4 all with different types) but I have a visual spatial kiddo and while some of the traits of dyslexia match those of a VSL, there are different ones and they, too, need some different approaches to learning. 

 

I do use All About Reading and it is similar to AAS but not quite.  You do use the tiles/cards but not the in the repetitive way as in AAS. I love AAR - not overly scripted - gentle but gets the job done.  I'm using it as a review to be sure we've covered all the reading/phonic skills.

 

[PeterPan]

Btw, I second the suggestion to do the free testing you can do at home as well.  Barton's pretest is here  http://bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen It's free and might be informative.  It's NOT a dyslexia test.  It goes through basic phonological awareness and sees if they have enough working memory to begin Barton 1.  Who knows what you'll find.  You can also sit down with AAS, LOE, whatever and run through your phonogram flashcards and inventory where she's at (sound to letter, letter to sound).  You can also give her the SWR diagnostic tests if you have access to them and do the McCall Crabbs reading comprehension books Sanseri likes.  I was always shocked at my dd's scores on the McCall Crabbs, but they actually did, at least for her, seem to correlate to the scores I got on more expensive standardized testing.  

 

Just some ways to get free information.  Buying curriculum is such a mess.  You could buy expensive this or that and realize you're fixing a problem you don't have.  That's why dictation is so great when you don't actually have indication of a phonological processing disorder.  It's free and it's something you can do right away with what you have.

 

Now a little history you may or may not know. They used to lump dyslexia together with ADHD and call it "minimal brain dysfunction."  There's this huge overlap, with 60% of dyslexic kids getting an ADHD label and a lot of kids with ADHD having odd challenges with reading and spelling.  You're NOT crazy to think this is going on.  It's just good to get it sorted out and get the right words so you can approach it the most effective way.  I found Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides VERY helpful with my dd, even though she doesn't get the label.  There's still a lot they don't understand about the interconnections.  So read diversely, absolutely.  

 

You might also like to read Freed's book Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World.  Your library may have it.  Freed explores why so many of these kids in the alphabet soup (dyslexic, ADHD, etc. etc.) are VSL and have these unusual strengths.  He goes into ways to HARNESS those strengths.

 

I don't think her enjoyment of audiobooks is contradicting anything.  My dd listened to TONS of audiobooks, hours and hours and hours.  My ds (the diagnosed dyslexic) memorizes what he listens to.  I think dd just enjoyed them.  It was different in a way that's hard to explain.  Ds listens to them over and over because he didn't catch and process all the language the first time and has to.  Dd listens to them because she did.  Screwy, eh?  Anyways, absolutely use them.  Any type of reading (ear-reading, eye-reading) is bumping their vocab, which in turn improves their ability to recognize words as they're decoding.

 

DON'T do this now, wait until you've had your psych eval, but you'll want to pull up Heathermomster's instructions for metronome homework and do that.  It's free, easy to implement, and something you can really milk once you get the idea.  I got PROFOUND changes with my dd, huge breakthroughs.  My ds is slower going, so we work and hope for little progresses.  Anyways, I really can't recommend that type of work enough.  Metronome and then throwing in whatever she's struggling with.  (digit spans, word retrieval, RAN/RAS, whatever)

 

When you interview the psych on the phone for that 10 minutes or whatever when they call you back, describe your scenario (the things you see happening that confuse you) and let them offer insight.  Then see what tests they might run.  Just for your own peace of mind, you'd like to hear CTOPP or some other test of phonological processing.  It's ok to ask about that explicitly.  A clinical psych or ed psych is going to have less time, so sometimes they run IQ (WISC), achievement testing (WIAT), maybe a few other things, and then read the tea leaves from there.  That takes a couple hours typically.  Then you bump up to neuropsychs, who will dig in and spend 4-6, even 10 hours testing, and they'll look at motor planning, language processing, word retrieval, etc.  It's totally reasonable for you to ask what test they'll be running for phonological processing (so you can google it!) and to ask if it will give a RAN/RAS number.  

 

My dd turned out to have low processing speed relative to IQ and very poor word retrieval on a level typical of dyslexics and apraxics.  My ds is both dyslexic and has apraxia.  I should bug his psych to see what that word retrieval score was.  The report he sent us was radically different from dd's.  Anyways, I spent a lot of time after dd's report came, rereading it and figuring out what those numbers meant and how I could let them impact my teaching.  There are also a lot of cases where something is *there* but maybe subclinical.  So you're not getting a DCD label or whatever, but it's still problematic, still impacting.  So just getting the right words for that really helps.  

 

Well good for you for pushing this.  Be bold and do it.  You're the one teaching her, and getting the right words for things and getting this info will make you a more effective teacher, absolutely.  :)

[PeterPan]

I don't see anyone suggesting that perhaps you do a little research on right brained/visual spatial learner.  While there may be some traits towards the dyslexia realm and the familial connection, I'm seeing a different picture here being described.  When I see "not fast on responding to math facts" or describing the approach to answering a math question a little different than the average bear, I think visual spatial.  I see a child that comes up with the answers in a different way.  I see a child that doesn't meet the time table for learning to read - which tends to be a wee bit later.  I also read that you had to take some time away from phonics instruction to care for your family so perhaps there is a delay in getting through the lessons - which is okay. 

 

How is her handwriting?  Does she enjoy writing or is this a chore, too?  When she is doing math do you find that she seems to "roll" her eyeballs upwards as if searching for something, and then comes out with the answer?  is she seem to have more empathy for others? or very heart broken when others offend her?  Is she sensitive to things like scratchy socks, seams in clothing?

 

Lots of great ideas have been given thus far and perhaps an evaluation is required.  Dyslexia comes in many forms (I know this firsthand with 3 of my 4 all with different types) but I have a visual spatial kiddo and while some of the traits of dyslexia match those of a VSL, there are different ones and they, too, need some different approaches to learning. 

 

I do use All About Reading and it is similar to AAS but not quite.  You do use the tiles/cards but not the in the repetitive way as in AAS. I love AAR - not overly scripted - gentle but gets the job done.  I'm using it as a review to be sure we've covered all the reading/phonic skills.

Yup.  I was going to say something similar yesterday and deleted it.  What she (the op) is describing does not sound like dyslexia. I just didn't want to disagree with the dyslexia people who sound so excited. :)  I mean, I could be wrong.  Just saying it doesn't.  You have to have phonological processing issues.  The rest is just rabbit trails and symptoms that overlap with other labels.

[PeterPan]

Hah! Yes, this is how I make DD check that she's spelled a word correctly and she HATES it. It's been a stressor between us in using the program, but I continue to make her do it because that's part of the AAS method. I've watched YouTube videos of kids using AAS who don't do it exactly that way. I have often wondered whether I am being too strict with DD. I've allowed her not to do it that way a couple of days to prove that yes, she does indeed need to check her work just so. ;)

 

Like I've said, I have seen improvements since DD started AAS. I think we're just not far enough into the program for it to benefit her more during reading. I've been pretty picky about our usage of it. We move a lot slower than many/most, I think.

But what she's doing is not guessing.  She's actually reading impulsively.  She's bored and her mind is wandering.  Stop having her read aloud entirely.  Pick up the pace on AAS and go MUCH faster.  Increase dictation to get spelling mastery.  Don't dictate the AAS sentences because they're boring.  Make up funny sentences or use literature.  Use the AAS phonograms and rules to explain the new words you come to.

 

As far as spelling errors, flip that on its head.  Right now you've probably got a test scenario, where she's wrong, wrong, wrong.  You can flip that.  Get a bowl of m&ms and put them out.  Every time she asks for help, she gets a piece.  REWARD noticing and asking for help.  Then get her a spelling dictionary.  I haven't tried apps for them yet, but when my dd was young she used the AlphaList from SWR.  You would find it compatible with AAS.  It's in alphabetical order with the most common words and she can look them up herself.  If she uses that, give her *2* m&ms!!  Reward her for self-monitoring. 

 

Freed talks about techniques like visualizing the word and then spelling it aloud backward.  Don't get locked into one way, the way everyone else does things.  Techniques for VSLs might get her some breakthroughs.

 

If her processing speed is low the way it sounds, the to read aloud may be frustrating.  My dd commented that it felt like she was always getting into trouble because she was always either too fast (impulsive) or too slow.  Listening to the audiobooks builds her bank of how the reading aloud should sound.  Continue to let her do that.

[pitterpatter]

Whoa, yeah. This is hitting home. I don't have time to reply in full right now, but I looked into this when we thought DD may be gifted a couple/several years ago. She is VERY empathetic/sensitive, among other things listed. When she was 2 and 3 years old, she would ask about the day she was born over and over. She cried every time because she thought it was so sad how much we loved her when we saw her for the first time. That floored us.

I don't see anyone suggesting that perhaps you do a little research on right brained/visual spatial learner. While there may be some traits towards the dyslexia realm and the familial connection, I'm seeing a different picture here being described. When I see "not fast on responding to math facts" or describing the approach to answering a math question a little different than the average bear, I think visual spatial. I see a child that comes up with the answers in a different way. I see a child that doesn't meet the time table for learning to read - which tends to be a wee bit later. I also read that you had to take some time away from phonics instruction to care for your family so perhaps there is a delay in getting through the lessons - which is okay.

 

How is her handwriting? Does she enjoy writing or is this a chore, too? When she is doing math do you find that she seems to "roll" her eyeballs upwards as if searching for something, and then comes out with the answer? is she seem to have more empathy for others? or very heart broken when others offend her? Is she sensitive to things like scratchy socks, seams in clothing?

 

Lots of great ideas have been given thus far and perhaps an evaluation is required. Dyslexia comes in many forms (I know this firsthand with 3 of my 4 all with different types) but I have a visual spatial kiddo and while some of the traits of dyslexia match those of a VSL, there are different ones and they, too, need some different approaches to learning.

 

I do use All About Reading and it is similar to AAS but not quite. You do use the tiles/cards but not the in the repetitive way as in AAS. I love AAR - not overly scripted - gentle but gets the job done. I'm using it as a review to be sure we've covered all the reading/phonic skills.

[LaughingCat]

With the additional info I would agree that she in not a struggling reader -- and from what I have heard, AAS is a relatively slow program - from what you are describing I would still not be looking at other slow programs like AAR (or LOE for that matter) --  I would seriously look at ElizabethB's program.  I know you do not want to stop making her read literature for a month - but seriously, a month is nothing in the scheme of things - and making her go through a slow program while at the same time you are having her read regular literature (containing phonics you haven't gone back over yet) is  just asking her to keep guessing.   

 

 

Also I will say that Dancing Bears was fantastic here for guessing- and it has the "Fast Track" program that is for kids who already read somewhat.  Also directions for using the 'notched card' that Dancing Bears uses can be found on the web (maybe on the Abecedarian reading site?) - so you could try using that directly without buying the program.

[PeterPan]

Whoa, yeah. This is hitting home. I don't have time to reply in full right now, but I looked into this when we thought DD may be gifted a couple/several years ago. She is VERY empathetic/sensitive, among other things listed. When she was 2 and 3 years old, she would ask about the day she was born over and over. She cried every time because she thought it was so sad how much we loved her when we saw her for the first time. That floored us.

That's definitely something the psych can sort out for you. Your lists for giftedness, adhd, and spectrum are going to overlap quite a bit.  (See the book Bright, Not Broken.)  Our psych called it "bright and tight" as if that was so common it didn't need a label.   :lol: 

[PeterPan]

Pitterpatter, you're probably feeling a little confused about the contradictory advice, eh?  :D

 

I'll just tell you *why* I was suggesting you go faster, and you can see if it applies.  AAS, Barton, LOE (not all the same target students) all teach incrementally.  If you do *not* have a phonological processing issue that hinders their ability to *apply* what they're covering and build fluency, then the very bright student might actually do better with something that is just as explicit for explanations (SWR, WRTR, LOE in the original program which I think she now calls Essentials?, etc.) *because* it will let them get to the big picture faster.

 

So for instance for her IQ (let's just assume gifted), she would probably be reading multiple grade levels ahead.  If there's *no* phonological processing problem, no language disorder, then it's just that the program is very incremental and taking forever.  Sanseri comments on this, that many kids will actually do better if you pick up the pace and go FASTER.  It lets them get the big picture faster, and it gets them into more intellectually interesting material.

 

I agree with you that her skipping words, rewriting stories, etc. is indicative of her brightness.  Now you can be very bright and dyslexic.  :)  However we're debating reading disorder. 

 

I'm just saying for my dd SWR was super fab.  She was spelling through varied lists with ALL the rules, ALL the phonograms, ALL the ideas at once.  She could do that because she did not have a language processing disorder.  She didn't need that incremental approach.  My ds can understand that the phonograms exist, but to process all that at once and get any fluency is impossible.  He has to have little steps.  But if the dc doesn't need little steps, if the dc can handle spelling a variety of words using a variety of phonograms and rules, it will let you bump up her reading level faster, helping with the boredom.

 

If the dc can handle going with a program that immerses them in all the rules and phonograms at once (SWR, WRTR, LOE essentials, whatever), it will get them the big picture and bump their reading level more quickly. If your dd does *not* have a language processing problem and is merely bored and slogged down in an incremental program, busting her out and letting her go big picture via dictation, a different program, etc. would bust out of that.  And yet, I totally agree, it HAS to be an explicit, phonogram-based, OG-derived program for some kids, absolutely.  

 

So that's how I get to the advice to go faster.  I'm not there seeing her.  I may have missed a bunch of details that would make that not fit.  Testing will help you sort that out, and some of it you can do for free like the McCall Crabbs, the SWR diagnostics, etc. Does anybody near you have them?