lewelma Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm posting this thread here also because I know that some of you don't make it over to the high school board. My older boy is a mathematician and spends all his time doing math. I am interested in developing a course that will be easy yet interesting to him. He still enjoys his father reading to him and discussing issues. I'm specifically looking for nonfiction books that would be interesting read alouds, and also a few historical novels set in the era. DS already plans to read some of the original works on his own (Homer, Virgil, and perhaps Herodotus, Plato, Plutarch (which ever is easiest)). We will be studying Pre-History, Mesopotamia, Indus Civilization, Egypt, Greece, Rome, China and the Mayans. These books should be at the teen (rather than adult) level as my younger boy who has a great interest in history will be along for the ride. I understand that TTC has a course on Homer which I will get, and I am open to other documentaries that would be interesting. I'm terrible at searching these boards, so I'm happy if someone can link me to other good threads. Thanks, Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 We are using a bunch of Great Courses that I got inexpensively from Audible. The ones we have used the most are: Human Prehistory The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World History of the Ancient World: Global Perspective History of Science: Antiquity to 1700 Food, A Culinary History There are a couple of video series we like too: - What the Ancients Knew (several; each episode is a different culture) - History Crash Course Videos on YouTube There was also an excellent course on Coursera. My daughter struggled with his accent so we didn't use it in its entirety. I think it was the Brief History of Humankind. The Big History Project might also have some content that you can use. I have so many other resources but these are probably the best fit for what you're looking for. Our main spines are OUP Ancient World and Story of Science. We add living history resources such as Gilgamesh, poetry of Enheduanna, religious myths, etc. ETA: I should mention that we are comfortable using materials from middle school to college level so many of these should work for both of your boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Awesome! Thanks! I'm also looking for some narrative non-fiction or historical novels. Did you use any of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Anyone used these books? Would they be difficult enough for a 9th-grade 'light' course? Time-Life What Life was Like Sagira described them: We also own the Time-Life What Life Was Like series, which includes primary sources and sketches of daily life and artifacts (really nice pictures) for each of the three civilizations: Egypt, Greece, Rome. If his interest in a particular culture is piqued, he can also choose to read from Ancient Ireland, India, or China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Cleopatra: A Life – Stacy Schiff and Justinian’s Flea: The First Great Plague and the End of the Roman Empire – William Rosen are both good nonfiction books that would make nice read alouds. As far as historical fiction, hmm. I, Claudius comes to mind, but probably wouldn't be that interesting to your younger son! I can think of a bunch of things at his level, but they may be too elementary for the three of them to do together. Coursera has two classes, one on the ancient greeks which is ok, one on Greek Mythology which is pretty good. We plan on doing ancients next year too, and we will use Vandiver's Mythology course and her Odyssey course. I really like Foundations of Western Civilization, a TC course by Thomas Noble. I adore the Coursera class the pp mentioned, A Brief History of Humankind, and the author has a book coming out in February. That is more of a historical overview, rather than being about ancient civilizations, but so meaty for reading together and discussing! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062316095/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER When I did that class (I've done it twice now, I love it!) I downloaded the detailed syllabus that has a ton of nonfiction book suggestions for each unit. It's too long to post, but pm me with your email if you want me to email it to you. Your younger son might enjoy this book, given his interests: The Griffin and the Dinosaur – How Adrienne Mayor Discovered a fascinating link between myth & science – Marc Aronson Here are a few historical fiction and nonfiction ideas I came up with when working on a plan for a middle grades course, so difficulty level may not be spot-on, but, FWIW: Made in China: Ideas and Inventions from Acient China – Suzanne Williams Oracle Bones, Stars, and Wheelbarrows: Ancient Chinese Science and Technology – Frank Ross Science in Ancient China – George Beshore Confucius: The Golden Rule – Russell Freedman The Legend of Lao-Tzu and the Tao Te Ching A Single Shard – Linda Sue Park The Ch’i-Lin Purse: A collection of ancient Chinese stories Where the Mountain Meets the Moon – Grace Lin Tales of Ancient Egypt – Roger Lancelyn Green (7.2) Kathryn Hinds has several series on life in the ancient and medieval worlds, that might work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here are some of the things that we are currently or will be soon using: In the Land of Ur: The Discovery of Ancient Mesopotamia by Hans Baumann Kirkus Review A Short History of the Near East by William S. Davis The Code of Hammurabi (Internet History Sourcebook) Readings in Ancient History by William S. Davis (Greece and the East) Belshazzar: A Tale of the Fall of Babylon by William S. Davis Myths from Mesopotamia (translated by Dalley) (especially the Epic of Gilgamesh) We also love the books by Dorothy Mills and I have created guides for three of the books from ancient times: The Book of the Ancient World, The Book of the Ancient Greeks and The Book of the Ancient Romans. While the first book may be too light and easy, the second and third should work. We are adding the above resources and others for Egypt to the first book to fill it out. My older daughter is currently reading the Book of the Ancient Greeks, most of Plutarch and Herodotus. She is reading excerpts from Thucydides and other primary sources. We both love the lectures by Vandiver from the TC and use these to accompany the literature. She is currently reading The Odyssey. She enjoyed reading Halliburton's The Glorious Adventure as it traces the actual places found in The Odyssey. I had her read it first (she has read prose versions of The Odyssey before) so that the locations as she read them in the actual poem by Homer will come alive to her based on her knowledge from the Halliburton book. We have The Lion in the Gateway by Mary Renault and The Exploits of Xenophon by Geoffrey Household (Landmark) but we've not read these yet. The Rosemary Sutcliff books are fun and light for the late Roman period. I also have Scipio Africanus: Greater than Napoleon marked as a possible book, but I don't have it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ancient History is on my maybe list for ds and I love your booklists Ruth, we have similar tastes so I'll be listening along :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here are some of the things that we are currently or will be soon using: In the Land of Ur: The Discovery of Ancient Mesopotamia by Hans Baumann Kirkus Review A Short History of the Near East by William S. Davis The Code of Hammurabi (Internet History Sourcebook) Readings in Ancient History by William S. Davis (Greece and the East) Belshazzar: A Tale of the Fall of Babylon by William S. Davis Myths from Mesopotamia (translated by Dalley) (especially the Epic of Gilgamesh) We also love the books by Dorothy Mills and I have created guides for three of the books from ancient times: The Book of the Ancient World, The Book of the Ancient Greeks and The Book of the Ancient Romans. While the first book may be too light and easy, the second and third should work. We are adding the above resources and others for Egypt to the first book to fill it out. My older daughter is currently reading the Book of the Ancient Greeks, most of Plutarch and Herodotus. She is reading excerpts from Thucydides and other primary sources. We both love the lectures by Vandiver from the TC and use these to accompany the literature. She is currently reading The Odyssey. She enjoyed reading Halliburton's The Glorious Adventure as it traces the actual places found in The Odyssey. I had her read it first (she has read prose versions of The Odyssey before) so that the locations as she read them in the actual poem by Homer will come alive to her based on her knowledge from the Halliburton book. We have The Lion in the Gateway by Mary Renault and The Exploits of Xenophon by Geoffrey Household (Landmark) but we've not read these yet. The Rosemary Sutcliff books are fun and light for the late Roman period. I also have Scipio Africanus: Greater than Napoleon marked as a possible book, but I don't have it yet. Great idea! I am resisting the urge to plan next year, because I have committed to being more child-led, but Shannon wants to do the Odyssey for sure so it's the first thing on our agenda next year. I will put this on my list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 After I posted that earlier today we started using another Great Courses lecture series: Cultural Literacy for Religion. We are in Ancient India right now so started the Hinduism lectures, and and they are quite good. We really, really love all the Great Courses lectures we've used. I use a bunch of other supplemental books, but I honestly haven't found any historical fiction that we like so far, but we've only made it to ancient India so far. I have a lot of failed attempts, but we've been better off with the non-fiction, audio lectures, documentaries, and original documents. As we moved into ancient China and beyond I think we'll have a larger pool of content to pull from. This is probably much too basic, but it might be an interesting starting point for ancient math systems. We have really enjoyed Can You Count in Greek. I've found it to be very consistent with the math descriptions we've read about in all our readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here are a few historical fiction and nonfiction ideas I came up with when working on a plan for a middle grades course, so difficulty level may not be spot-on, but, FWIW: Made in China: Ideas and Inventions from Acient China – Suzanne Williams Oracle Bones, Stars, and Wheelbarrows: Ancient Chinese Science and Technology – Frank Ross Science in Ancient China – George Beshore Confucius: The Golden Rule – Russell Freedman The Legend of Lao-Tzu and the Tao Te Ching A Single Shard – Linda Sue Park The Ch’i-Lin Purse: A collection of ancient Chinese stories Where the Mountain Meets the Moon – Grace Lin Tales of Ancient Egypt – Roger Lancelyn Green (7.2) Kathryn Hinds has several series on life in the ancient and medieval worlds, that might work? I've had "Made in China..." on my list so I think I'll get it. We use all the "Science in Ancient..." series, and they are solidly middle grade, but good content, and DD likes them. I think "A Single Shard" is much later.. medieval times I think? Love Where the Mountain Meets the Moon but we've read it so many times! I did use Tales of Ancient Egypt for read aloud, and it was pretty good. DD liked Ancient Egypt: Tales of Gods and Pharaohs by Marcia Williams better as an assigned reading; that one is comic book style. She actually has a series of books from different cultures in the same style. We are using the India one now. They're all grade 3-6ish I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenNotOfTroy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 My DH and I enjoyed The Modern Scholar History of Ancient Rome, they appear to be on Audible.com, but we listened to CDs some years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I went to the library to see what they had, and the kids section is pretty simple, although they have some nice mythology books. So I went upstairs to the adult section and found some *wonderful* books, even the Oxford Children's Ancient History book was in the adult section as is SWB's recommendation of History: the definitive guide. I think they do that because the bindings are fragile or something. Mixing the two kids will be somewhat difficult, but they started Milestones of Civilization tonight and both were engaged, so that is good. I did not find any good, 100-page, teen, narrative nonfiction like I have with other eras, so we are going with engaging history books (Milestones of Civilizations looks great), two 400-page narrative nonfiction (Persian Fire and Rubicon), and a bunch of myth and religion books. My older will also read The Illiad, Odyssey, and Aneid and watch some TTC lectures. The * is for what my younger will read independently. I'm open to suggestions, especially some more challenging historical fiction for my 11 year old.... Spine History: The Definitive Visual Guide. Ed by Hart-Davis. 2007. DK Overview Books Milestones of Civilization. Blandford and Davidson. 2009. Oxford Children's Ancient History . Burrell. 1997. Civilizations: Ten thousand years of ancient history. McIntosh and Twist. 2001. DK Archimedes and the Door of Science 30,000 Years of Art. 2007 *A little history of the world. Illustrated edition. By EH Gombrich 2011 Mesopotamia Library books – history and myths *Gilgamesh the Hero. McCaughrean India Library books – history, Hinduism, Buddism Egypt The Atlas of Ancient Egypt. Pemberton. 2005 Pyramid. Macaulay *Golden Goblet *Mara: Daughter of the Nile *Tales of Ancient Egypt. Green. Reference books: Eyewitness: Ancient Egypt. Pyramid. Greece Herodotus Persian Fire *Age of Fable *Black Ships Before Troy. Sutcliff *The Odyssey. McCaughrean Reference books: Eyewitness: Ancient Greece Rome Rubicon City. Macaulay *Aeneid for Boys and Girls *Detectives in Toga Reference books: Eyewitness: Ancient Rome Maya Library books – history and myths *Well of Sacrifice China Library books on history, Taoism, Confucianism *Lady of Ch'iao Kuo. Yep. 2001 Reference books: Eyewitness: Ancient China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you are interested in China, I have an Amazon list that might help. I gave many of the books to Calvin to read when he was twelve or so, but he said later that the maturity level on some of them was a bit high (I didn't read them all). I edited the Amazon list to reflect that. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Mara was one of the books we just couldn't get into..I can't remember why exactly. We watched the Pyramid documentary with Macaulay. It's on YouTube and easy to find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You have received some great suggestions. Since he is so into Math, you may want to supplement with some ancient mathematicians: Archimedes and the Door to Science (If he hasn't already read this) The Math Book Exploring the World of Mathematics In addition, you could add in Philosophy Adventures (Christian Content - ignore if you prefer secular) for supplemental Pre-Socratic philosophy reading as you progress through the Ancient time period. We are doing this currently as a Philosophy class; just reading the material and completing the notebook pages. I plan to revisit it and go more in-depth when we do Ancients again in 9th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Just in case any one wants to see what we finally came up with, here is the course: Ancient History. 9th grade The purpose of this course is for a liberal-arts education. He does not need it for university entrance here. However, just in case he decides to apply to an American university, I want to make sure it is acceptable as American humanities credit. The Plan: My DH will read to and discuss with boys the spine, nonfiction, and religion (3hr per week). DS will read Illiad, Odyssey, and Aeneid and watch the TTC lectures on his own. Movies we will watch and discuss Friday nights with pizza and popcorn! We are not planning any output except discussion. I believe this will come to a full Carnegie unit. Spine History: The Definitive Visual Guide. Ed by Hart-Davis. 2007. DK Nonfiction Milestones of Civilization. Blandford and Davidson. 2009. Oxford Children's Ancient History. Burrell. 1997. Civilizations: Ten thousand years of ancient history. McIntosh and Twist. 2001. DK 30,000 Years of Art. 2007 Persian Fire. Holland. 2005. Rubicon. Holland. 2003 Religion (library books) Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism Original Literature The Iliad, The Odyssey, and The Aeneid: Box Set. Translated by Fangles. TTC lectures. Iliad and Odyssey.Vandiver. Julius Caesar. Shakespeare Historical Fiction (Free read ideas. He may choose not to read any of these) I, Claudius. Graves. 1934 A King must Die 1958, Bull from the Sea. (sequel) Renault Pompeii. Harris. 2003 Augustus. Williams. 2004 Film Egypt Cleopatra 1963 Greece Black Orpheus 1959 (camus) Electra 1962 (greek tragedy) Iphigenia (greek tragedy) Jason and the Argonauts 1963 My fair lady 1964 (pygmalion) Oedipus the King 1968 Ulysses 1967 (james joyce) The Trojan Women 1971 (euripedes) Hercules 1997 Clash of the Titans 1981 O Brother Where art Thou 2000 (odyssey, reinterpretation) Troy 2004 Rome Ben Hur 1959 Spartacus 1960 A funny thing happened on the way to the forum 1966 I Claudius 1976 (mini-series) Masada 1981 (mini-series) China Red Ciff.2008 (china 200ad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ruth, Thanks for listing your film list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I was going to suggest Masada. I watched it with my grandad when it was first shown in NZ. I think I have read the book too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 As for another nonfiction book, I highly recommend the World Landmark book, Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt, by Elizabeth Payne. There are also several titles for ancient Greece and Rome. I don't know if they are as good as the Egyptian one, but thought I would list them anyhow: The Adventures of Ulysses, by Gerald Gottlieb The Exploits of Xenophon, by Geoffry Household Alexander the Great, by John Gunther Julius Caesar, by John Gunther Cleopatra of Egypt, by Leonora Hornblow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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