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Parents Whose Kids Specialize Early: How Much Is Too Much?


EndOfOrdinary
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I am curious with parents who have kids that specialize early, how much is too much?  When do you draw the line and say, "This is a wonderful opportunity, but no.  Too much stress/time/responsibility/specialization at the risk of childhood/time/well rounded education."

 

Most of you know that my son's passion is environmental advocacy.  It is an outlet for his big heart as well as his extroversion.  He is just plain good at it, and it has aligned him with a stack of professional mentors who are doing national level work.  We live in a very good area for this right now.  All great and awesome.  This could legitimately be a launching point for a very successful career. 

 

In December he recieved non-profit sponsorship and since his youth coalition is bursting at the seams.  So much had been lined up and planned that once he got sponsorship all the dominoes started falling into place.  He will spend January bulking up his grants (he already has a scaffold and a mentor for this) and submit for the first of this year's grant cycle by the beginning of February.  Then that is it until August/September.  In February he starts his radio show, but it is mainly just an auditory version of his website done bilingually (Spanish/English).  So it is not a crazy allotment of extra work once he gets the hang of all the buttons (there are so many buttons!).  I was far more worried about this at the time, but it is really not as big a deal as it is a flashy deal.  Significantly less work than we thought.  In general, there is a sort of standby and lull in the sheer amount of activity.  He is just maintaining and sustaining right now with a few bursts here and there.

 

Today we met with his videography mentor.  The mentor specializes in environmental documentaries and social media.  The guy is really in demand and a top dude in his field.  He offered Ds an internship today.  Ds would be able to use the editing software, studio space, and computers.  He would get direct, hands on, twice a week work with Mentor to develop his own ideas with film.  He would be the grunt of the office, but again working with people who do international environmental film adn win awards for it.  It is such a fantanstic opportunity and I am all for unschooling.

 

But......Ds is 10.  He is so tiny and so young and so very much seems like this is something offered to an 18 or 20 year old.   At the same time, how do you say no to something that could legitimately develop into a career starting opportunity? I cannot in any way provide with Mentor is offering, and for free no less.

 

So I am calling out to the BTDT parents of the Hive.  Any advice?  What questions should I be asking myself about whether we should take this on?  Anything I should really be concerned about looking into?  Anyone have such large leaps work out?  Anyone have their kid fall on their face? 

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EOO, :grouphug: .  I have so been there.  Have you seen this thread?  How do you cater for the specialist? : http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/503756-how-do-you-cater-for-the-specialist/
 
The biggest difference to me between what people said on my thread and your situation, is that what your son is doing is not exactly specializing - he has to learn tech, communicate ideas, understand the science, etc. So all the fields of knowledge rolled into one topical interest. 
 
I know it is really hard, and scary. And I do understand the uncertainty you feel having to cater to such a driven child.  But I think you are doing *very* well!
 
Ruth in NZ

 

ETA: just rereading the thread.  There are some beautiful ideas there.  Thanks so much to the hive for your wealth of knowledge!

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I guess his specialization is in Business.  Most of it is leadership and oratory.  There is some tech, but mainly that is being delegated out (website, graphics, most of the radio stuff).  He just writes and delivers the information after someone shows him fairly streamlined what to do.  There is some summary and some figuring out what the science is saying, but most of it is really figuring out who to ask the tough questions to and how to relay that information in a way people can be hopeful about and relate to.  I do not mean to down play that as a skill.  It is a skill I surely do not have the way Ds does.  He just networks people and can motivate them.

 

The video editing and such is quite a leap up.  That gets very technical and really artsy.  Ds is thrilled.  I am also excited about something that looks career-ish and does not involve esoteric languages or ancient literature (not to insult any Classics/Hum majors).  Funny enough, Mentors major was in classical Spanish literature.  Ds found this out today, and if somehow the law would allow it I'm pretty sure he would have married Mentor on the spot.  His eyes got all glassy. Totally cute.

 

I know my job is to have faith in my son, but I do not know exactly where the parental boundaries of that faith should be.

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But......Ds is 10.  He is so tiny and so young and so very much seems like this is something offered to an 18 or 20 year old.   At the same time, how do you say no to something that could legitimately develop into a career starting opportunity? I cannot in any way provide with Mentor is offering, and for free no less.

 

So I am calling out to the BTDT parents of the Hive.  Any advice?  What questions should I be asking myself about whether we should take this on?  Anything I should really be concerned about looking into?  Anyone have such large leaps work out?  Anyone have their kid fall on their face? 

 

I was going to reference Ruth's The Specialist thread too. And I agree...I don't really see it as 100% specialization although I think I know what you mean.

 

We are not exactly specializing right now...well, sorta if you take focusing on just math, science and music for now as specialization. It's worrying on some levels but I think if you also think of it as how you are already going against the norm by homeschooling and then going against that homeschooling norm again by homeschooling the way you are homeschooling, it is pretty exciting no? Just try imagining it...just switch the whole mindset around and picture your kiddo say 20 years from now...one image could be him doing the normal stuff everyone else is doing and another the really out of the box stuff because you took the path you are on now. What outcomes do you see? What does your gut tell you?

 

Lately, kiddo's interests have widened the more he is exposed to new subjects and new settings, so there's also a possibility that your lovely boy will find other passions. But for now I say celebrate him. He is just so unique and so darn inspiring.

 

Yes he is 10. But he is also 10. It works both ways...what's the worst that can happen? How much time do you need with a generally happy, healthy 10yo to move things around if needed? What will you regret if you don't take on the mentorship? What will you regret if you do? If needed, make a pros and cons list and just decide and then be gentle on yourself. Will this chance come your way again? Okay, say you can say no for now ... is that what your DS wants?

 

As to how much is too much, listen to your gut. I've found the largest leaps to work best for us (we thrive on risk although initially I do worry). I also watch for that spark in the eye...once the spark isn't there, once he seems cranky or just not energized, I know a change is needed but till then, we just go about doing what makes him (and as a result, me) happy and healthy.

 

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argh, I just lost everything I wrote!!!

 

Once again.....

 

Specializing in maths has led my ds into breadth in some very unexpected ways.  He has learned computer skills by needing to find, download, and learn the software required to do some complex mathematics and graphing.  He has improved his communication skills by helping kids on the AoPS board try to solve problems.  He has to identify where their problem is, and find just the tiniest hint to nudge them in the right direction.  He decided yesterday to proofread his proof for spelling and grammar errors because his last proof got marked down for mechanics.  If maths, a very isolated field, can do this for my ds; business, a very broad field, can do it for yours.

 

Now I am not saying, skip on the maths and literature etc, but I do think that in a field requiring as many skills as what you are describing, your ds will experience so much!  If unschooling is just too difficult, then actually count specific tasks towards credits. So accounting -- that's maths; and writing and giving speeches -- that's English. I know your son is 10, and you certainly don't have to do this, but if it gives you piece of mind, then why not? Also, encourage him to do ALL the different aspects of this project.  He may not *have* to do accounting, but why not encourage him to budget and track the finances.  I am sure that there will be *so* many opportunities to learn in a very wide variety of fields!

 

I think that at age 10, you can't get it wrong -- not with a kid as passionate as yours. He will drive himself forward, and your job as I see it is to both facilitate his goals and to encourage him to try things that he would not naturally do (or that others say they will happily do for him). I also think that he is not a kid you could slow down.  Get rid of that sense of childhood that you think a 10 year old should have.  You need to teach him to manage his workload and people's expectations of him. He may need to learn to meditate to learn to control his mind, given how intense he is.  But I certainly don't think you need to worry about being well-rounded; from my point of view he is! And congrats on the internship opportunity!

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I'm trying to tell myself that with a kid who is ahead across the board anyway, if progress isn't linear in other subject areas because she's essentially acting like a grad student in biology (and loving every minute of it), it's good. It's not always day to see it that way, but I try. I also try to realize that for her lab supplies ARE toys and the field is a playground. She is playing-just maybe not the way most kids her age do.

 

(I've written much more, but my iPad keeps hiccuping and losing it).

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EOO, are you able to articulate exactly what you are worried about?  Sometimes that is a really hard thing to do, but I think it would be worthwhile.

 

:grouphug:

 

I think my main concern would be how hard he might want to push himself.  That he might feel pressure to perform at an adult level, that he might *want* to perform at an adult level, and that he might get exhausted or anxious. I would focus on setting boundaries *before* taking on the internship, both with the mentors and with your ds.  Possibly even set up a 1 to 10 rating of how pressured or stressed he feels each day to make sure he learns to look inside and learn to say no or to delegate when he gets overwhelmed.

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I think there are no risks associated with early specialization, no matter the field. I think the most important thing one needs to learn is to work hard and you cannot become a specialist without working hard. The danger of getting behind in other fields is low because first of all by working hard in one field you are likely to pick up skills from other fields. But more importantly one doesn't need to know everything to become very successful in life. I read once an interview with a biologist who was awarded Nobel prize. In the interview he claimed that even though in his subfield there was a lot of math he wasn't particularly good at it. Instead, whenever he needed to solve some equation he asked a mathematician friend for help.

 

What I think is a real danger is early achievement. Say your son becomes really famous in his work, i.e. maybe he features in CNN heroes or something like that. That could be bad because in everything he does afterwards he or others will compare his performance with the previous achievement. Not being able to measure up could create feelings of inadequacy and being a fraud and could even lead to abandonment of the field. 

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One concern I have is avoiding the child prodigy syndrome-where the kid gets caught up in being the youngest and, when they are no longer the youngest/first and aren't getting attention due to age, feel they're no longer special. I've seen it happen to way too many talented young musicians. That's where I think things like DYS, summer programs, and stuff like that can help, because often everyone there is the youngest/first at something, and suddenly, everyone is just part of the group. Sometimes, it takes knowing you aren't the only kid in the world who is interested in/good at what you are (or at least something similar) to find your place in the world.

 

One of my DD's friends just won the 2nd season of Masterchef Jr. One of his comments is that the best part about doing the contests he's done is that he wasn't the only kid in the kitchen-that while it's great working with adults, being able to be with other kids who are just as thrilled as he was was amazing.

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It varies with the kid I expect. On the whole it is about some balance. Sure spend a lot of time on the speciality but at least tick the boxes in other areas. Child actors etc who get good educations seem to do better latee than those who don't. If you do six hours a day maths you need to make sure some time is allocated to language arts - not another 6 hours just a reasonable amount for age and stage.

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IME being well rounded tends to be overrated. Once you have enough basic skills for regular everyday life, there is ever diminishing return from requiring a student to continue with subjects that are irrelevant to them. I think that schools do not allow enough specialization or offer specialization early enough, and being able to provide this is one of the numerous advantages of home learning. I would certainly accept the internship as long as your child is keen (and understands what is involved) and of course as long as you trust the mentor.

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EOO, are you able to articulate exactly what you are worried about? Sometimes that is a really hard thing to do, but I think it would be worthwhile.

 

:grouphug:

 

I think my main concern would be how hard he might want to push himself. That he might feel pressure to perform at an adult level, that he might *want* to perform at an adult level, and that he might get exhausted or anxious. I would focus on setting boundaries *before* taking on the internship, both with the mentors and with your ds. Possibly even set up a 1 to 10 rating of how pressured or stressed he feels each day to make sure he learns to look inside and learn to say no or to delegate when he gets overwhelmed.

I have been mulling, and I think my first two immediate concerns are rather illogical. Firstly, my thought is, "What if he totally fails, or is too immature, or completely makes an idiot out of himself." We have been there. The first grant proposal was horrific and involved a speach. It was actually a very good thing. He learned to not procrastinate and think too highly of his abilities. This is rather just knee-jerk, mom caring. The second fear is, "what if he blows this opportunity because he is too young and not able to maximize the experience." Again, not very reasonable since I am right here. If that looks to be happening, we will just talk with Mentor and regroup in a year or two.

 

So it seems the real concern is that I do not want to somehow overlook an opportunity because we have decided to take this one. I do not want to pigeon-hole him, or to make him feel like this is the only place he can explore, or in someway to create a myopic view of who he could be if he decides tomorrow he wants to be a professional kayaker or something. I know that I cannot keep all options open forever, but I worry about somehow setting up the idea that just because he is thriving he cannot explore other experiences.

 

In this instance it seems I need to repeat the manta "He is ten. There is plenty of time." To myself over and over.

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We are not exactly specializing right now...well, sorta if you take focusing on just math, science and music for now as specialization. It's worrying on some levels but I think if you also think of it as how you are already going against the norm by homeschooling and then going against that homeschooling norm again by homeschooling the way you are homeschooling, it is pretty exciting no? Just try imagining it...just switch the whole mindset around and picture your kiddo say 20 years from now...one image could be him doing the normal stuff everyone else is doing and another the really out of the box stuff because you took the path you are on now. What outcomes do you see? What does your gut tell you?

 

Lately, kiddo's interests have widened the more he is exposed to new subjects and new settings, so there's also a possibility that your lovely boy will find other passions. But for now I say celebrate him. He is just so unique and so darn inspiring.

 

Yes he is 10. But he is also 10. It works both ways...what's the worst that can happen? How much time do you need with a generally happy, healthy 10yo to move things around if needed? What will you regret if you don't take on the mentorship? What will you regret if you do? If needed, make a pros and cons list and just decide and then be gentle on yourself. Will this chance come your way again? Okay, say you can say no for now ... is that what your DS wants?

 

As to how much is too much, listen to your gut. I've found the largest leaps to work best for us (we thrive on risk although initially I do worry). I also watch for that spark in the eye...once the spark isn't there, once he seems cranky or just not energized, I know a change is needed but till then, we just go about doing what makes him (and as a result, me) happy and healthy.

Ds is all for it. He is actually quite excited about the technology and art mixing. He has always wanted to travel and really was set on becoming a naturalist for quite sometime. As he has gotten older he wanted to incorporate technology somehow. He has had a YouTube feed forever, but it was just a six year old explaining wind turbines rather badly with me filming equally badly. When I step back, this is a logical twist and turn that I just did not see coming.

 

Mentor was a National Geographic Explorer internationally for a few years. Now Mentor gets helicoptered into remote wildlife areas to film/create environmental documentaries and political work to save endangered species. It is like the flashiest, sexiest job in the world. There is definitely sparkly eyed wonder from Ds. That is not going anywhere anytime soon. The last time we were there Ds was allowed to play with the remote controlled helicopter drone camera that takes aerial pictures. It is the sort of hing that is almost impossible to get boring for a teenage/tween boy.

 

The leap is so scary because it could legitimately be a serious launching pad for Ds into a world I would never be able to create. Mentors contacts are ridiculous. He had Ds on track to be in a feature length HBO documentary about the new face of Climate activism until Dh killed the idea (he was worried about Ds' privacy). It is a jump into the big leagues. At some point I am going to have to let him go out there just like you did sending yours off to college. I do not know if I will ever be ready for that, so you are right - what is the worst that could happen? If I hold him back just because I still see my tiny boy, he will never be able to really soar. I'll just stock up on red wine and chocolate!

 

Thank you quark. The BTDT words on these boards are priceless!

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Grr... My iPad is refusing to multi quote right now. Anyway, for dmmetler and kiwik:

 

We decided to write out a schedule. In three hours Ds can do a reasonable amount of chemistry, Math, Latin, Spanish, and Japanese. He will not be soaring through at a breakneck pace, but he will be working well. So every morning will start off with that. Three days a week the afternoon block and will be nonprofit and internship work. The other two days the afternoon will be writing, literature, history, and seeing his friends. He reads every night anyway, so that is always there.

 

This allows me to feel like some balance is happening. Our pace will drop down considerably in the morning subjects, but it is not like we do not have time. I think I was more concerned with veering off the path we had been traveling. It was so nicely working. There is a book about TWTM method. Nice little boxes. So if the morning can have my pretty nice little boxes incase Ds does decide he wants to still go to elite schools our options can remain open. As much as this doesn't have to be a passing joyful experience, it very well could be and I do not want doors to have closed because of it.

 

I have to remember that homeschooling is about allowing him to learn joyfully. Pretty boxes are not really all that joyful (but I sure feel safer with them!)

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I would certainly accept the internship as long as your child is keen (and understands what is involved) and of course as long as you trust the mentor.

If something happened to me at a protest rally, Mentor has already agreed to claim to be Ds' father to police so he can keep Ds out of harm and be sure to get Ds back to Dh. There are very few people on the planet I trust more than Mentor.

 

My concerns are with early striving creating a myopic focus. I was an early math prodigy who saw very little need for humanities. As a result, I missed so much great literature because I could have cared less. I did not focus enough on learning to express myself outside of technical writing. I did not experience great art. These have been replenished in me as my son is very much a Hum kid, but it was a great loss in my life. I do not see education as a means for employment. One of the most financially secure and happiest people I know has worked at a car wash since he was 15, but studies advanced calculus and Russian literature at home for hobbies.

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IME being well rounded tends to be overrated. Once you have enough basic skills for regular everyday life, there is ever diminishing return from requiring a student to continue with subjects that are irrelevant to them. I think that schools do not allow enough specialization or off specialization early enough, and being able to provide this is one of the numerous advantages of home learning. I would certainly accept the internship as long as your child is keen (and understands what is involved) and of course as long as you trust the mentor.

Well rounded is not really possible if you have a very strong area of skill. Like the OP and other posters said if he does some maths, writing (he will need to write grant applications etc anyway), chem and literature for even 2 hours five days he will be well rounded enough and still have most if the day for his passions. He probably doesn't want to do 3 sports and couple if instruments anyway. (Or maybe he already does?).

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Grr... My iPad is refusing to multi quote right now. Anyway, for dmmetler and kiwik:

 

We decided to write out a schedule. In three hours Ds can do a reasonable amount of chemistry, Math, Latin, Spanish, and Japanese. He will not be soaring through at a breakneck pace, but he will be working well. So every morning will start off with that. Three days a week the afternoon block and will be nonprofit and internship work. The other two days the afternoon will be writing, literature, history, and seeing his friends. He reads every night anyway, so that is always there.

 

If this stuff of still happening, he should be totally fine. Specializing at the expense of all other subjects is ill-advised, but your experience s acting to balance that risk. I think you're all set.

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I am going to be the contrary figure in the discussion - I have seen many music students who were outstanding, amazing, super talented, and specialised in that quite early.

Problem is around age 17-18 or so they (including me ...) realised that actually, maybe I don't want to be a musician afterall. But for many of us, it was really hard to change. Difficult because

a) our education had been very focussed on the music, to the point that other subjects may have been let go. I was lucky - I decided at the end of highschool not to go in to a performance programme but still had the grades to get in to Uni. One girl I knew had left school at the end of junior highschool to pursue her music full time, and felt 'trapped' because she didn't feel like she was able to go back and do senior highschool and do something else.

b) The pressue to be the 'x kid' because not only is that what you are known for, but you have such a potential to fill, sacrifices have been made etc. etc. Expectations can hem you in.

c) As Dmmetler mentioned, once you start to grow and are no longer the 'young prodigy' but just another person doing this thing, you sometimes come to think 'actually ...'

 

Not saying that is going to happen in your case, but just be aware that a 10 year olds passions do not always remain a young adult's passions, and you could be closing doors as much as providing opportunity.

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I am going to be the contrary figure in the discussion - I have seen many music students who were outstanding, amazing, super talented, and specialised in that quite early.

Problem is around age 17-18 or so they (including me ...) realised that actually, maybe I don't want to be a musician afterall. But for many of us, it was really hard to change. Difficult because

a) our education had been very focussed on the music, to the point that other subjects may have been let go. I was lucky - I decided at the end of highschool not to go in to a performance programme but still had the grades to get in to Uni. One girl I knew had left school at the end of junior highschool to pursue her music full time, and felt 'trapped' because she didn't feel like she was able to go back and do senior highschool and do something else.

b) The pressue to be the 'x kid' because not only is that what you are known for, but you have such a potential to fill, sacrifices have been made etc. etc. Expectations can hem you in.

c) As Dmmetler mentioned, once you start to grow and are no longer the 'young prodigy' but just another person doing this thing, you sometimes come to think 'actually ...'

 

Not saying that is going to happen in your case, but just be aware that a 10 year olds passions do not always remain a young adult's passions, and you could be closing doors as much as providing opportunity.

ugh...this keeps getting eaten.

 

 

As a musician, I feel there is something a little different about performing arts (and maybe athletics) compared to more academic foci. And a big part is that while in music, it's very possible for a talented young kid to leapfrog into pre-pro or professional level training, experiences, and accolades without meeting adult level skills in other areas, you really can't do that in most cases for academic prodigies. My DD may be welcome in college field work and professional meetings at age 9-10, but it's at a pre-college level. In order to be accepted as a college student, and eventually as a graduate student and professional, she has to leap those hoops-and those kind of, in the US system, at least, prevent overspecialization to the degree that changing paths isn't possible until after the BS if not longer. Which, in many ways, is a good thing.

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It doesn't sound like he is specializing to the pt of exclusivity, so I wouldn't see a problem from that perspective. Where I think you have to tread carefully is with how they identify themselves, how you talk to them, and whether both of those tend to close an invisible lid on a box with them on the inside and no one acknowledging that the lid really exists.

I'm not sure I can express this level of parenting philosophy in a few word post before my coffee, but here goes. Someone close to me has bright, talented children. As they grew up, their strengths and gifts shone and both mom and individual child would really hone in on that area. Both child and parent would say,"I'm/he/she is going to be a xxx one day." This was not the equivalent of a child saying, "I'm going to be an astronaut when I grow up," and being surrounded by things that interested him. It was more. It was talked about and discussed with them and in front of others with the same level of seriousness and intensity as a high school sr, but it went on from th time they were very little.

Those kids ended up a train wreck for quite a while. 2 of the kids harbor serious resentment toward their mother bc they assert it all came from her and not from them at all. As an outsider, I do not fully agree with them, but they are young adults who feel like part of their childhood was stolen from them by so much energy focused on those pursuits. They also have a lot of emotional baggage from what it took to decide to walk away from those areas and shift gears to a radically different field. Only 1 of 3 remains really close to mom, but it has taken him a long time to find his feet and end up in a place where he has a job he enjoys.

It is different to allow kids to really pursue something they love, while making sure that your affirmation of their passion does not mean they have to know at 9 or 10 or even 15 what they want to spend their lives doing. Provide opportunities that feed that love but still encourage them to be open to other areas and ideas bc there is a whole wide world of opportunities out there. By openly encouraging them to consider other possibilities and making sure that YOU have no emotional investment in their current passion means that the lid hasn't been closed down on them making them feel like they have been boxed into a single path from childhood.

My oldest always wanted to always be an engineer and he is one. Youngest Ds always loved math, but later on he found physics and truly fell in love. But, he also really loves philosophy. There have been a couple of times when he has idly aksed, "what would you do if I dropped it all and decided to become a philosopher?" Deep inside mom mode, I really do not believe the question is as superficial as he jokingly presents it. I think he wants affirmation that life's path is his to choose and that I don't have an emotional investment in what he decides.

Our 10th grade dd was convinced for many yrs that she wanted to be an ornithologist. She was and still is passionate about birds. But by making sure she was receiving a balanced education, she actually decided she really loves languages. She still loves birding and it is probably going to be a lifelong amateur pursuit vs professional, but at this point, she is pretty determined to follow the language path. But, educationally, she could alter courses back to ornithology tomorrow and not be a single step behind. Her academics are equally prepared for both from a high school perspective. Her hobby approach to birding has kept that part alive and "in tune," just not at the same depth of concentration.

That is just a very long way of saying that if they jump in and close the lid on the box, don't join them. You need to open up the lid and let them stay in the box if that is what they want. You provide them everything in your ability to fill that box with the tools they want and will need, but you equally build a staircase out of the box and have welcoming arms if they ultimately decide that climbing out and following a different path is the one they want.

It can be difficult to navigate. But knowing adult children, others and our own, we really must acknowledge how much influence we can have on them even if is subconscious and unintended. With these really bright and talented kids, I think you have to affirm that they don't have to know now what they want to do and that changing directions at any time is definitely OK.

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It can be difficult to navigate. But knowing adult children, others and our own, we really must acknowledge how much influence we can have on them even if is subconscious and unintended. With these really bright and talented kids, I think you have to affirm that they don't have to know now what they want to do and that changing directions at any time is definitely OK.

This spoke volumes to me.

 

I have a kid who is a natural doubting Thomas. He has a strong resistance to advise that is contrary to his own logic. I've often thought that I've had little influence on him. And yet, this isn't completely true. Perhaps the heated discussions (arguments!) about fairness, spirituality and meaning in the world did not fall by the wayside. It just takes a long time for ds to process, find his own meaning and expression.

 

You are so right, 8. We can only affirm to our kids that the choice is theirs, and that they can change their minds at any time.

 

ETA: I don't have a kid who specializes - he likes too many things, some of which are non academic.

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That is just a very long way of saying that if they jump in and close the lid on the box, don't join them. You need to open up the lid and let them stay in the box if that is what they want. You provide them everything in your ability to fill that box with the tools they want and will need, but you equally build a staircase out of the box and have welcoming arms if they ultimately decide that climbing out and following a different path is the one they want.

 

It can be difficult to navigate. But knowing adult children, others and our own, we really must acknowledge how much influence we can have on them even if is subconscious and unintended. With these really bright and talented kids, I think you have to affirm that they don't have to know now what they want to do and that changing directions at any time is definitely OK.

 

8, I really like the way you stated this.

 

This is exactly they way I am trying to parent my dd. She is so involved with music at the moment and there are times when experiences and opportunities seem to snowball. The last thing I want to do is box her in. Music is not an easy life for most. As the ball is rolling, my jobs are to make sure she has time to pursue her other interests (at the moment crafting, reading, and writing), continue her education in other areas because she may find something new to interest her, and to remain connected...I want to know she really wants all these things and isn't simply caught up in the momentum. We have many talks one-on-one and she knows she is free to tell me exactly what is on her mind.  It helps to have people in her life, including her Irish music teacher also an assistant district attorney, for whom music is not everything so she can see different ways people do more than one thing.

 

I often overhear people asking her what she plans to do when she grows up and it annoys me. She is twelve years old! I feel she should be able to enjoy what is happening in her life now. She does not need to know what she "wants to be when she grows up." 

 

Edited to addĂ¢â‚¬Â¦I know it's too much when I notice dd stressed or when she tells me it's too much. Sometimes the simple logistics cause her to need to make choicesĂ¢â‚¬Â¦for example this year she had to chose whether to play in orchestra with rehearsals on the same day as many of her Irish gigs, audition for another classical music program, or have more involvement with her Irish music. She couldn't be in two places at once, so she and I listed pros and cons of each decision and she decided. 

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EOO, I'm wondering if you could not try something that I do with my older.  Instead of me using specialist language, like 'you're going to be a great mathematician one day' or 'the world runs on math, you will always have a job', or whatever (I'm not very creative here), I use language to encourage him to see the breadth of the speciality.  So, 'there are so many fields that use maths - Economics, Biology, Investment Banking, Physics, etc. Imagine, how many options you will have.'

 

So for your ds, perhaps you could focus on the transferable skills.  Wow, you love speaking in public, do you know that there are people who do this for a living for Environmental Companies and non-profits.  Or, all these organisational skills would really come in handy if you wanted to help write government policy for environmental issues.  Or to even step out the box further, your passion for the environment could lead you towards being a scientist in conservation biology, or even an urban planner focusing in public transport, or you could even work as the PR guy for a company designing biofuels from microbes.

 

I think what I am saying is you could broaden his perception of his speciality.  Does that make sense?

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I always wanted to be a pediatrician when I grew up. I watched doctor/ER style shows as a child and from before the age of 10, I knew that's what I wanted to do. My parents bought me books and human body building kits. They told anyone who would listen my plans. I did many hours of volunteer work at the hospital as soon as I was old enough and took an academic career path toward my goal.

 

In my junior year of high school, I was in a medical explorers group and a physical therapist came in and talked to the group. I fell in love with that profession right then and thereĂ¢â‚¬Â¦less schooling, more time getting to work with and know my patients, and very flexible hours so I could have a family (my biggest goal in life). I don't think my parents ever forgave me for not becoming a doctorĂ¢â‚¬Â¦in fact, during an argument a few years ago, they brought it up as one of my failures in life even though, to me, being a pediatric physical therapist is a job I could not be more happy doing.

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EOO, I'm wondering if you could not try something that I do with my older. Instead of me using specialist language, like 'you're going to be a great mathematician one day' or 'the world runs on math, you will always have a job', or whatever (I'm not very creative here), I use language to encourage him to see the breadth of the speciality. So, 'there are so many fields that use maths - Economics, Biology, Investment Banking, Physics, etc. Imagine, how many options you will have.'

 

So for your ds, perhaps you could focus on the transferable skills. Wow, you love speaking in public, do you know that there are people who do this for a living for Environmental Companies and non-profits. Or, all these organisational skills would really come in handy if you wanted to help write government policy for environmental issues. Or to even step out the box further, your passion for the environment could lead you towards being a scientist in conservation biology, or even an urban planner focusing in public transport, or you could even work as the PR guy for a company designing biofuels from microbes.

 

I think what I am saying is you could broaden his perception of his speciality. Does that make sense?

This makes so much sense to me, thank you for pointing this out.

Alex is still so very young, and it hadn't really occurred to me that we already need to be considering this...she is generally presenting as globally gifted thus far, but is so advanced in math that it tends to garner a lot of attention. And she is um, intense, lol, and passionate about math so it naturally is a huge focus for her.

The problem is that even now the comments from others are taking a toll, aren't and they? Last week she was on a train in London, just passing the time doing math problems on her white board and gathered her own group of commentators. They think it is amazing, or cute, or whatever. But all those little comments worry me:( I already am worried about her feeling pigeon-holed or pinning her sense of self-worth on situations like that at FIVE!

We have spent the last few days in museums in Paris, and I was really worried that she was not going to be able to deal with that:). But she has gleefully spent hours going around with her little sketchbook, and is the one who is never ready to leave! She loves it, and even asked to skip a day of Disney in favor of more museum time:). Cute, yes, but really it just makes me determined to see that we use language that encourages all paths that may be of interest to her. To help her see the infinite possibilities in pursuing passions in all areas and providing ways to open her mind (and keep it open!) to more non-traditional paths.

I can't do a whole lot about the comments and influences she will encounter as she pursues her passions, but I most certainly can ensure language and discussions at home on a very broad interpretation of how those things might translate...and how she will always be the one to make those choices.

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Seems to me you can have a focus in skills (e.g., writing, math, leadership), fields (e.g., health, environment), or jobs (phlebotomist, butcher (my friend's kids' selections at age 13)).  I'm sure there are some other ways to cut it.  But only a focus on a specific job puts you in a box.  The other two categories can lead to a huge variety of options and we just need to keep reminding our kids of that.

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Seems to me you can have a focus in skills (e.g., writing, math, leadership), fields (e.g., health, environment), or jobs (phlebotomist, butcher (my friend's kids' selections at age 13)).  I'm sure there are some other ways to cut it.  But only a focus on a specific job puts you in a box.  The other two categories can lead to a huge variety of options and we just need to keep reminding our kids of that.

 

This year my dd chose to have different subjects come from different job possibilities. She has an interest in forensics, so a couple subjects are from that perspective. She wanted the remainder of the subjects to be in other realms, even though we could have worked from a forensic slant in those too. This approach has worked out well because it helps her try to tease out what exactly interests her in each path. It also helps her to explore different areas to see if she really just enjoys free time with a subject as opposed to in-depth study. Interestingly, her extra-curricular activities are in yet another direction!

 

Some subjects definitely lend themselves to certain skills better than others.

 

ACK! Maybe I meant this for the non-specializing thread! I'm getting confused! I'm never quite sure which category we fit in....Is there a generalized specialist or specialized generalist thread? :001_huh: ;)

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ACK! Maybe I meant this for the non-specializing thread! I'm getting confused! I'm never quite sure which category we fit in....Is there a generalized specialist or specialized generalist thread? :001_huh: ;)

 

 At this point, I am watching both.  I do not know if it is possible to really separate them.  The more I am pondering and reading, reading and pondering, the more I am thinking this might be my real issue.  As a parent, I want to be sure that I am allowing my son enough room to realize where he wants to specialize.  I want to make sure my unintended influence is allowing him to adequately become himself at the right times.

 

In our society, the ability to remain a generalist died quite some time ago.  So, eventually, he is going to have to choose a place and really further his study at the expense of other knowledge (at least in some way).  My main concern is that I do not know at what point that really happens for a kid who is not meeting the traditional milestones in his academic world, yet still delayed in the emotional realms.  Rewriting the script in this area seems to cause me so much more pause, when in reality it is actually no different than the original choice to homeschool. 

 

Long story short, I don't think you can put your comments in the wrong spot. 

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ACK! Maybe I meant this for the non-specializing thread! I'm getting confused! I'm never quite sure which category we fit in....Is there a generalized specialist or specialized generalist thread? :001_huh: ;)

 

I say lose the category and celebrate being you! :party:

Love,

quark (or she who always looks for a reason to party :D)

 

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So here is what we decided to do: 

 

He is going to take the internship, but we are going to change our family rhetoric to more of a skills based view.  This was really an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered.  As an adult, I was looking far more into the "what job box does this put DS into."  That was what was sort of freaking me out a bit.  What if in 12th grade he decided he didn't want that job and then here we have all this specific learning? That seems a bit ridiculous now since all the learning just bleeds together into a pile of leadership and networking skills - those go everywhere.  Thanks lewelma.  Very good advice.

 

We are also shifting our schedule so that Ds is progressing in many subjects at a far more average rate.  At first I thought that we were never going to be able to fit all his subjects in, and that would be the case if he continued to devour content at the rate he currently is.  However, nothing says that he has to do a chapter of chemistry every five days.  He can do a chapter every two weeks like the book is actually paced for.  By having him slow down the other subject areas, he is still able to fit in all the usual ones and have his afternoons completely free for nonprofit work/intership stuff.  He actually isn't losing anything other than to have the subjects absorb all his energy rather than another project.  I will need to rework the long range plan to add a bit slower pacing, but in general this solves the much larger issue of graduating a couple years early.  In the end, it might really be a good thing.

 

I think Ds knows he can drop everything tomorrow and that is fine.  With a couple things he is on long range contract (6 months intervals).  So he will have to do grant reporting and radio slots until the contract time is up, but most things are totally free to be ditched whenever.  I will be sure to reiterate this more often, to monitor the assumptions I am making, and to provide the affirmations to his person not his accomplishments.  Good to think about 8!  Often I get stuck thinking like an adult and forget to filter things through kid experience.

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We are also shifting our schedule so that Ds is progressing in many subjects at a far more average rate.  At first I thought that we were never going to be able to fit all his subjects in, and that would be the case if he continued to devour content at the rate he currently is.  However, nothing says that he has to do a chapter of chemistry every five days.  He can do a chapter every two weeks like the book is actually paced for.  By having him slow down the other subject areas, he is still able to fit in all the usual ones and have his afternoons completely free for nonprofit work/intership stuff.  He actually isn't losing anything other than to have the subjects absorb all his energy rather than another project.  I will need to rework the long range plan to add a bit slower pacing, but in general this solves the much larger issue of graduating a couple years early.  In the end, it might really be a good thing.

 

This is an excellent solution. I want to reassure you that I have seen such a solution actually work well for a child I know in my neighborhood. He is a musical prodigy of extraordinary capability. He is in his teens now and he works on his music and compositions for the first part of the day (sometimes 6-7 hours before a big concert) and then on his schoolwork for the rest of the day. He is still radically accelerated, but not as much as before. He dedicates a large portion of his day to music. And the most interesting thing is that when he slowed down in math and chemistry (his most accelerated subjects), he suddenly discovered an interest in the humanities and he is spending time studying Ancient Egypt, Shakespeare etc. He feels that slowing down in math and chemistry gave him time to explore other academic subjects as well.

 

Good luck to your son with the internship.

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