Ivory Tower - documentary

[MarkT]

I borrowed this from the library - definitely worth watching if your library carries it or something like Netflix

 

It's on the cost of college - it has a great example where Cooper Union located in NYC which was free for a 150 years because they decided to build an expensive building (which looked pretty worthless in terms of usefulness) and basically ruined the whole endowment so they have to charge tuition now.

 

 

 

 

[MBM]

My husband went to Cooper Union and it was by far his favorite school (West Point, CU and UChicago). Here is the website from The Committee to Save Cooper Union, a group trying to get CU back on track, explaining what happened:

 

http://savecooperunion.org

[TranquilMind]

I borrowed this from the library - definitely worth watching if your library carries it or something like Netflix

 

It's on the cost of college - it has a great example where Cooper Union located in NYC which was free for a 150 years because they decided to build an expensive building (which looked pretty worthless in terms of usefulness) and basically ruined the whole endowment so they have to charge tuition now.

I saw this.  It was really interesting. 

[G5052]

I teach at a community college where only 20-25% graduate within five years.  

 

One of the gals in the financial aid office calls it "starry eye" syndrome.  They think that it is all going to work out in the end no matter what, and that they're going to finish their degrees and end up in a well-paying job where they'll get the loans paid off quickly.  But very few do that. 

 

We have a very good transfer rate to 4-year schools, but a fair number get the two-year degree with loans and then find that commuting to the 4-year and everything else is just too difficult.  There's a significant jump in the costs, and sometimes that is a barrier.  And jobs in my area for those with most 2-year degrees are limited unless you're in a medical field.

[MarkT]

I teach at a community college where only 20-25% graduate within five years.  

 

One of the gals in the financial aid office calls it "starry eye" syndrome.  They think that it is all going to work out in the end no matter what, and that they're going to finish their degrees and end up in a well-paying job where they'll get the loans paid off quickly.  But very few do that. 

 

We have a very good transfer rate to 4-year schools, but a fair number get the two-year degree with loans and then find that commuting to the 4-year and everything else is just too difficult.  There's a significant jump in the costs, and sometimes that is a barrier.  And jobs in my area for those with most 2-year degrees are limited unless you're in a medical field.

 

One of the problems with CCs is that they should be revamping curricula every 5 years or so for the career / non-transfer programs.  What was a relevant certificate course back in the 1990s may not be today.  For example, a certificate in Web Design will probably not lead to any job in today's market.

 

[G5052]

One of the problems with CCs is that they should be revamping curricula every 5 years or so for the career / non-transfer programs.  What was a relevant certificate course back in the 1990s may not be today.  For example, a certificate in Web Design will probably not lead to any job in today's market.

 

 

Yes, I started as a computer science professor in a transfer program.  But we really weren't getting the demand at all.  People would take one or two classes for pre-engineering or to prepare them for the AP Computer Science Exam (which we carefully matched), and that was it.  The full-time computer science professor (just two of us) took a job in management and later went to a larger college.

 

Then they moved me over to web design and programming in the IT department.  That lasted a year because indeed you can't get a job in our area with a 2-year degree.  So all of those classes went away.  The only 2-year IT degree left is in networking, and that's the remaining full-time faculty member's expertise.  So I teach the class everyone takes.

 

While they gutted CSC/IT they ramped up the medical degrees.  So there's an EMT program, various levels of nursing, surgical technology, health information systems, etc.  The other degree that does well is what they call "administrative support technology" which prepares people to be administrative assistants.  They also have a good paralegal program.

 

But if you just get a 2-year liberal arts or science or pre-engineering and stop, there's nothing much for you.  If you do a vocational degree or a transfer degree and actually transfer, you're fine.

 

So yes, mine is pretty responsive.  But there are some degrees that could be a dead end.

[Tsuga]

One of the problems with CCs is that they should be revamping curricula every 5 years or so for the career / non-transfer programs.  What was a relevant certificate course back in the 1990s may not be today.  For example, a certificate in Web Design will probably not lead to any job in today's market.

 

 

We do that, but just try to re-hire an instructional staff every three years. It is tough.

 

Not to go into too much detail, but let's just say that tenuring vocational training faculty MAY have some unintended consequences. Not that I don't believe in tenure for academic freedom... it's just that, well... what if nobody wants to study something that has been fully automated since 2003? What does academic freedom mean in that context?

[G5052]

We do that, but just try to re-hire an instructional staff every three years. It is tough.

 

Not to go into too much detail, but let's just say that tenuring vocational training faculty MAY have some unintended consequences. Not that I don't believe in tenure for academic freedom... it's just that, well... what if nobody wants to study something that has been fully automated since 2003? What does academic freedom mean in that context?

 

Yes, this has been an issue in the state system. They did away with tenure and added language in the faculty manual to the effect that they can indeed terminate a faculty member in a program that don't have enough demand and/or is no longer relevant.  There was a lot of controversy about it at the time with almost monthly faculty senate meetings and talk of unionizing.  I know of one person who lost their job (a professor in kitchen and bath design).  But the budgets won!