Math program before Beast Academy?

[mrhmhy]

I'm looking ft recommendations for a math program to use for my 4 yr old (will be 5 in March) which will prepare him for/transition easily to Beast Academy when he's ready. We're about to finish Math-u-See Primer and he's done great with that. I like the hands on and spiral approach. However I don't think MUS alpha is as comprehensive as I'd like. We've also been working with Miquon red and orange at the same time, I use that to supplement MUS but I feel like I need a little more structure than that has. And he seems to like having a variety to switch between. We also read LOF after math and he enjoys that but I only see it as a supplement right now (almost done with apples).

 

Any suggestions? I've been looking at Singapore Math 1b but would love to hear if there's others I should consider as well. He enjoys it so I want to keep it fun and sometimes he needs repetitions but once he gets a topic he gets bored if it's drilled too much.

[Jackie]

We use RightStart Math. RightStart and Singapore cover similar concepts in similar ways. The biggest difference between the two is that RightStart is more based in mental math and uses games to learn facts, Singapore is more paper-and-pencil based. Both use manipulatives to introduce concepts in concrete ways first, but from what I've seen the use of manipulatives is more explicitly outlined in RightStart, which has a huge manipulative kit to go along with the curriculum.

[Slache]

Rightstart, or I've heard that Miquon is great paired with Ray's Arithmetic which is intended to be done orally.

[Btervet]

We are using Rightstart, Miquon, and MEP with my 4 almost 5 year old. We are also hoping to transition into BA. I like the combo of the three because it seems to cover all different types of topics in different ways. It also lets me slow him down when needed in certain areas that are too difficult for him currently. 

[bibiche]

We mostly used MEP before BA.  In fact, we continued MEP with BA. 

[sunnyday]

About 6.5 to 7 years was when my DS hit the maturity to be able to handle BA really well. So I'm in no rush to get DD (5.5 almost 6) there. SHE, on the other hand, wants nothing more than to start now. :p She's read all the guides, but now wants me to read the guides with her and let her work out the problems/stop signs in the guide on her own. I have to distract her away from this goal almost every day now...

 

Anyway, having been through this phase once, my philosophy is to keep 'em occupied and engaged with a wide variety of stuff; try not to neglect foundational concepts like modeling addition and subtraction in different ways, and getting place value (and the general concept of decimal mathematics/composing and decomposing units of higher value) rock solid; but mostly to accept that the concepts of addition as putting-together and subtraction as taking-away are going to happen no matter what you do. Throw some stuff at them and see what sticks and when they're mature enough for puzzling through problem-solving math they will probably have a background that's adequate to it. I'm just keeping my eye on the Pre-Assessment to help guide my decisions on topics and depth and readiness.

 

So, these days I'm walking DD through some Singapore 1A lessons including all the "extras" in the HIG, letting her do what she wants in Singapore 1B IP, pulling out the Kitchen Table Math, definitely looking at MEP again, reading LoF with her occasionally, and brainstorming non-standard fields of math to play with -- stuff like Sudoku, pattern blocks, and of course "living math".

[Farrar]

My kid who did well with Beast did all of Miquon before starting it. I think it's a great lead in program, especially for when Beast starts at grade three. When it starts at grade 2, there will be more of an overlap with Miquon.

[Incognito]

Well, we were one of those negligent families that used Life of Fred as our core curriculum.  We finished through Goldfish before starting Beast Academy.  It's going just fine.

 

For what it is worth, it really doesn't matter what you use as a curriculum to teach the foundational concepts, and if something hasn't been covered yet you can just cover it before digging in (there is a pretest).  

 

I'd recommend using something (whatever suits your child) as a core - combined with playing games, reading interesting books that mention mathematical concepts, and talking about numbers and how they work.

 

[mrhmhy]

What is MEP?

[sunnyday]

Mathematics Enhancement Programme.

[kiwik]

Before they had Beast Academy AOPS recommended kitchen table math - I think they still sell it.

[Crimson Wife]

Right Start if you like hands-on, Singapore textbook + Intensive Practice if you want something more independent.

[acurtis75]

We used MUS from alpha to pre-algebra and just added Beast Academy, Singapore Challenging Word Problems and Life of Fred as supplements. DD had no problem transitioning from MUS to Beast Academy. We were already on Delta when BA came out so the first book was almost all review but she enjoyed it anyway.

[BusyMom5]

Butting in... which level of Singpore would you finish before starting BA 3A?  Does no one recommend Math Mammoth?  I was thinking MM or MiF or Singapore for next year (2nd), then doing BA the year after that (3rd grade). 

[go_go_gadget]

Right Start if you like hands-on, Singapore textbook + Intensive Practice if you want something more independent.

 

We used both of those and I echo the recommendation, but having switched to Miquon for my younger partway through using the above, I would simply start (and stay) there next time. It's an excellent program, and while it may feel unstructured, its process is actually very well thought-out and trustworthy. 

[Slache]

We used both of those and I echo the recommendation, but having switched to Miquon for my younger partway through using the above, I would simply start (and stay) there next time. Its an excellent program, and while it may feel unstructured, its process is actually very well thought-out and trustworthy. 

 

So you would use just Miquon and not RightStart?

[go_go_gadget]

So you would use just Miquon and not RightStart?

 

Yes. Miquon covers all the same material, and in a way I find equal or superior to RS's, depending on the topic. I also appreciate the use of the same manipulatives for every topic, rather than switching manipulatives from topic to topic, because it seems to better cement the relationships between topics. We did add hundred blocks to the usual cuisenaire rods, and loved Rosie's Education Unboxed videos.

[Farrar]

I think if you're choosing between Miquon and RS, Miquon is cheaper, so go there first. Also, pairing Miquon with the RS card games is a nice way to get a bit of both.

[SoCal_Bear]

Hmmm...I use SM, there seems to be plenty of mental math if you are using the HIG. If you only go with the TB/WB, you will not see it as much. We are almost done with 3A. I do not plan to pick up BA until after he finishes SM 3A/3B as I believe he will have a more enriching, deeper experience taking these concepts to a deeper level. I plan to use it behind SM to go deeper on covered concepts. I know that the AOPS folks think highly of SM as a good lead into AOPS. I don't plan to use BA as a stand alone and will continue on with SM.

 

[bibiche]

Oh, and we didn't use it when DS was small, but if I could go back in time I would absolutely use Mortensen Math.  It is was MUS is based on but IMO MUS is not nearly as comprehensive, creative, or good (we used MUS alpha when DS was small and it was pretty meh).

[Crimson Wife]

The big advantage of Right Start over Miquon IMHO is the scripted lessons. RS is totally open-and-go for me. Miquon I've looked over several times but never felt like I understood how I would actually use it.

[maize]

Ds9 used parts of MM 1, 2, and 3 before switching to Beast Academy; it worked well for us.

[deerforest]

We did a bit of RS and a bit of MiF, but then took a year off and just did living math the year right before starting BA. She didn't like much of anything until we got our hands on BA. So, she had a deep conceptual understanding of math and experience with manipulatives but she hadn't written much down on her own.

 

She really didn't have a problem jumping into it from our haphazard approach, but I'm sure it's not for everyone!

 

I am not convinced it matters what you start with when you transition to BA. It's totally different than anything else and will work for some kids and not for others. For us, it revolutionized DD's opinion about math.

[1053]

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[wapiti]

I looked at the pre-test here

https://www.beastacademy.com/store/3a

My question is, is the pre-test a good measure of readiness for BA3A, or are there other considerations such as resilience when confronted with difficult problems.

 

I can't comment on the pretest, but FWIW I tend to think of patience for problem solving not as a prerequisite quality but as a quality to be developed.  Perhaps a penchant for puzzling (outside of math) might help grease the skids.

[Targhee]

We have used RS and SM (different kids, though both had elements of both programs used). I think a strong concept-based math, with multiple approaches to problems gives you a leg up at being successful with BA.

 

As far as the pretest, I think it is a BARE minimum of what you should know. If there's struggle with the pretest at all I would wait. You need to be willing to try, and fail, and try again. Also you need to have stamina for some of those starred problems. You also will be more successful if you are an adherent of "more than one right way to do things" philosophy.

 

I think if student AND parent are open-minded about math anyone can succeed with BA.

[blondeviolin]

We jump in after 2B Singapore. I just had my (mathy) 7yo complete the assessment and he got every problem correct. My oldest needed some hand-holding, but she is not an out-of-the-box thinker.

[1053]

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[Tanikit]

I would like to start BA with my child - she did Horizons K as a 4 year old, then moved into SM1a-3a with some of the more challenging MEP problems (this was too much work and printing for me since I was not using everything). She has also done LOF and is starting Jelly Beans now so I imagine it would be fairly easy to start BA now. The reason I haven't yet is the difficulty getting it to where I live. She passed the pretest for BA3a around the time she finished SM2b (I think she was in LOF Goldfish at the time).

[maize]

DD5 still needs to learn some arithmetic before being ready for that pre-test, so maybe mid-late next year. But in the mean time I'm curious if you've got any hints for developing the quality of not having tantrums and meltdowns. :rolleyes:

 

For my kids it was time and maturity that did the trick.

 

I was actually quite surprised at how well my perfectionist handled BA.

[sunnyday]

I looked at the pre-test here

https://www.beastacademy.com/store/3a

My question is, is the pre-test a good measure of readiness for BA3A, or are there other considerations such as resilience when confronted with difficult problems.

 

I think it's a good measure. That said, my son didn't have great facility with everything on there before we started 3A, because we started with geometry and that didn't have arithmetic prerequisites. We did work simultaneously on increasing his working memory (being able to hold several digits in his head for mental math) and willingness to approach problems from different directions, before we moved out of that geometry section.

 

I felt like an even better measure, though, was working the sample pages on balancing weights. When I tried them on DS at age 6.5, he cried and threw himself around but insisted on finishing and was able to get the solution with lots of hand-holding. When we actually bought the books he was almost seven, and at that section he groaned and moaned a little but got through it completely on his own. That was when he was really starting to get the most out of the program; now that he's 8 he's really at his just-right point of intellectual curiosity and perseverance. For various reasons we've managed to stretch it out this long, so he is currently about to have mastered the material in 3B and is starting into 3C. (We dance eclectically through the practice books, aiming to master them or at least the starred problems on each page, while reading and re-reading the guides.) Nowadays he gets mad at me if the "hints" I offer lead too directly to the correct answer, even if it's just restating something he's just told me himself. :p

 

We ended up finishing Singapore 2A around the time we were getting deeper into the skip-counting section of BA 3A. We never got Singpore 2B, but DS has gotten plenty (PLENTY) of two-digit addition and subtraction practice in public school. I think I'm going to get Singapore 3 IP or CWP because I perceive that Singpore problem solving has some strengths we could stand to capitalize on.

[Mommy_of_4]

I am going to make my son finish math mammoth 3A before he starts Beast Academy. He can pass the placement test right now but I don't think he could handle it without a meltdown right now.

[1053]

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[wapiti]

DD5 still needs to learn some arithmetic before being ready for that pre-test, so maybe mid-late next year. But in the mean time I'm curious if you've got any hints for developing the quality of not having tantrums and meltdowns. :rolleyes:

 

 

Believe me, I feel your pain, and I'm talking about one of my eleven year olds  :glare:

 

Really, though, check out the long list of awesome tips Ruth added to the intuition thread on the other board today.  Age and maturity can have a lot to do with patience for problem solving, but mostly I'd shoot for (1) working together, and over a long period of time slowly letting out the reins (long as in years, in the case of a 5 y.o.!) and (2) making it fun, a game, a puzzle, one problem at a time.  Fun is critical IMO, to build the motivation within oneself to do something difficult.  Patience both in the short term, as in a sitting, and in the long term (that's very young to even consider this angle) :)

 

Anyone transition from EPGY to AoPS? Any thoughts on this?

 

Do you mean from EPGY to Beast or to AoPS?  For what age/math grade level?

 

Eta, I don't know about other people, but Beast was not a good fit for my ds when he was 6.  A few things would have worked, but he just wasn't into it.  Now at 8, a lot of the topics would be a good fit for him, though he'd skip all the other topics that he already knows (many, but not all, of them).  He attends school and gets quite good math instruction there and we haven't had time to do Beast at home, but for a few bits which he enjoyed.

[1053]

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[wapiti]

We have an EPGY subscription for DD5(near6) expiring April 2015, and we won't renew. She's up to grade ~2.3 math, so I'm hoping to get her up to speed for BA3A by then, at least in terms of math. We at least want her finishing EPGY grade 2 by then, but I wonder if she should aim to start into EPGY grade 3. If not ready in other ways, we'll wait, but I do want her to start AoPS at the BA3A level, since I like AoPS.

 

DS8(near9) started AoPS at Intro Algebra level recently, without having seen hard problem solving before, and he's fine with it, but he's very mathy, and also patient and resilient.

 

I love Beast (well the workbooks anyway) but 3rd grade math is a tricky level.  My current ds6 would be able to do a lot of the math but not so much the harder problem solving, I think - I haven't even tried with him (all my kids attend school though, and I'm busy enough that I only afterschool math when there is a necessity, as there has been from time to time - my ds6 and ds8 are getting much of what they need at school at the moment).  I kind of wish Beast were divided in half, half with the regular 3rd grade topics and half with the topics that are not usually included in 3rd grade math, so that the latter would be easier to use as a supplement for a kid who learned the ordinary 3rd grade topics much earlier.

 

FWIW, we used EPGY a long time ago, maybe when my ds11s were around 6, but there was no Beast, and when the first ones finally were published, my boys were not interested (too babyish-looking, I guess).  We have been muddling our way through ever since (one used MM and then started AoPS Prealgebra in fourth grade; the other in fifth.  I love that book and, for reasons I'm still not sure of, I much prefer it to Intro to Alg).

[Soror]

My son had only used Right Start (through level C- he used Level D concurrently) when he went into BA and it worked/works well for him. 

 

I have no plans of using BA for dd1 due to her personality but dd2 I'm planning on using MiF as her main pre-BA program. I tried Miquon with dd1 but it didn't quite work for us. We'll probably throw in some MEP, RS games and other living math resources as well. However, a good chunk of our prep will be various logic/strategy games to develop problem solving skills.