JAWM...pre-k Christmas concedt

[Angie in VA]

And just for the record, James Earl Jones (perhaps you've heard of him?) had a stuttering problem when he was young. Yeah, that actor, who has earned a decent income doing some jobs as small as, "This is CNN." and "Bell Atlantic" used to stutter. It was a high school English teacher who suggested he memorize speeches and enter oratory contests. Wow, what do you know? A supportive teacher, who saw a problem and helped him deal w/ it. 

 

Not saying your ds has anything wrong w/ him. Lots of 4 yr olds have melt downs. Big deal.

 

This is going to bug me till I know they let him sing. I'd better follow this thread now so I can find it when you have great news that they will have him sing!

[AimeeM]

That is so odd. Even with a group of neurotypical 4 year old, meltdowns HAPPEN. 

I remember when my eldest was in a formal soccer class at the age of 3/4... and most of the team spent the games picking flowers and playing catch with the opposing team. Rarely does anything involving a large group of preschoolers go "as planned".

[Lisbeth]

And just for the record, James Earl Jones (perhaps you've heard of him?) had a stuttering problem when he was young. Yeah, that actor, who has earned a decent income doing some jobs as small as, "This is CNN." and "Bell Atlantic" used to stutter. It was a high school English teacher who suggested he memorize speeches and enter oratory contests. Wow, what do you know? A supportive teacher, who saw a problem and helped him deal w/ it. 

 

Not saying your ds has anything wrong w/ him. Lots of 4 yr olds have melt downs. Big deal.

 

This is going to bug me till I know they let him sing. I'd better follow this thread now so I can find it when you have great news that they will have him sing!

 

This really gets to the heart of the matter.  The recital should be about these 4 year olds learning to perform and deal with public appearances, and learning to sing.  It should not be about having some perfect concert for parents to film.

[Angie in VA]

Still obsessing: can you get this in writing?

 

Can you email the teacher or whoever it was who called you as a follow up? Or not even a follow up, but ask what time your dc should be there? Then if he/she dares to repeat the exclusion of your dc, you have it in writing. 

 

What a great opportunity to teach this person what the law says. (Said w/ great sarcasm, of course.)

 

 

[Lisbeth]

ps.  I'm sorry if I wrongly assumed your child is on the spectrum and would fall under the ADA in that way.  I just read that into the post.  Plenty of typical four year olds have meltdowns.

[saw]

At DS's school Christmas play last year, the opening act featured one kid puking all over the place. Teachers stepped in, cleaned up, removed sick child, no biggie. This year at least one child began to cry and was comforted, and one of the bigger boys was clearly just getting over a meltdown (wiping tears away). It happens. They're kids.

Go fight them.

[BrookValley.]

Um, hell to the N-O.

 

Who in their right mind tells a FOUR-year old they can't participate in the Christmas concert because they might have a meltdown? So the music teacher made this decision, and someone else called you? Who agreed with her that this is an ok idea and made that phone call? And his teacher understands but won't stand up to the music teacher, either? Who the hell is this woman that these people won't tell her she's out of line? (Someone who shouldn't be teaching 4-year olds, methinks.)

 

Music teacher's got some serious nerve. Or not a clue. Or both.

[Slartibartfast]

I would be on the phone with the principal and I would insist that he be permitted to participate.

 

I am sorry they are douchebags, :(

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

If he principal won't talk to you I would talk to the superintendent.

[*Lulu*]

Has this music teacher actually worked with 4 year olds?

 

Has this teacher ever worked with younger children period?

 

Even the most NT 4year old is capable of melting down during a concert. And, let's be real, there is no realistic way for a four year old's concert to be ruined by the four year olds.

 

I would raise holy hell until they relent.

[BrookValley.]

I mean...I get it. I get that they are concerned that the combination of the music and the auditorium might be a sensory issue for him. That's fine.

But the time to decide that is not two days before his Christmas concert that he's been walking around the house practicing for for weeks.

 

His OT has been observing him in the classroom and says things have been going fine. He struggles with transitions and other than that has been doing well.

My husband wants to just pull him.

 

ETA: I did tell them I would be right there, and if it was too much for him, he could just come sit with me the rest of the time. They didn't seem interested in a compromise.

 

Ok, so their concern is legit. That's ok. The solution is what you said--you'll be right there, and if he gets overwhelmed, you'll step in and help/have him sit with you (if they prefer, they could have an aide step in/bring him to you). This is not hard or complicated. There is nothing to compromise on; they've made a decision that is wrong. Ugh, this makes me angry, and I don't even know you or your son!

 

<snip>

 

This is going to bug me till I know they let him sing. I'd better follow this thread now so I can find it when you have great news that they will have him sing!

 

Me, too! lol

[NorthwestMom]

Um, hell to the N-O.

 

Who in their right mind tells a FOUR-year old they can't participate in the Christmas concert because they might have a meltdown? So the music teacher made this decision, and someone else called you? Who agreed with her that this is an ok idea and made that phone call? And his teacher understands but won't stand up to the music teacher, either? Who the hell is this woman that these people won't tell her she's out of line? (Someone who shouldn't be teaching 4-year olds, methinks.)

 

Music teacher's got some serious nerve. Or not a clue. Or both.

 

LOL. That's the EXACT phrase I thought when I read the OP. 

 

I would be in the principal's office right now raising some serious hell.

[mom2scouts]

OMG, I'm furious for you!  My kids went to a public school that had most of the special needs kids in the district.  Aides would be on the side of the stage and would intervene if necessary.  Honestly, most parents were so busy watching their own sweet darlings that they didn't really pay much attention to what the other children were doing.  I think you should contact the music teacher, tell her your child has been looking forward to the concert for weeks, and insist that he be allowed to participate.  You can be standing nearby to remove him if necessary.  I would tell the music teacher that if your child is excluded, you will show her the true meaning of a meltdown!

[MedicMom]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

[happi duck]

Another vote for:

 

You MUST fight this!!

Music teacher is WRONG!!!

Don't ask...tell them!

Go Mama Bear go!!

 

I think this #@!* teacher didn't just poke the hive she walloped it with a shovel!!

[maize]

Half the cuteness of a performance by small kids is the things that don't go as planned. My four year old was in our church Sunday School program this past week, his participation consisted of going up to the podium when it was his turn to say a part and putting his head down on his arms because he was too shy to speak. The teacher said his part for him and gently led him back to his chair. If a kid has a melt down mom or dad picks them up and gives them a big hug, carries them out if need be.

 

Everyone smiles understandingly.

[SKL]

I'm even more surprised that the school psychologist called you.

 

I would definitely call back and say now that you've had time to think about it, you realize that it is wrong, possibly illegal, and completely unnecessary to exclude your son from a school activity.  That accommodations rather than exclusion would be appropriate.  That your son has been looking forward to this.  That you are against creating a precedent of exclusion instead of inclusion.  That the point of a pre-K concert is not theatrical perfection.  That you're bringing your son to the concert and they had better not create a scene in front of all the other children and parents.

[Just Kate]

I'm even more surprised that the school psychologist called you.

 

I would definitely call back and say now that you've had time to think about it, you realize that it is wrong, possibly illegal, and completely unnecessary to exclude your son from a school activity. That accommodations rather than exclusion would be appropriate. That your son has been looking forward to this. That you are against creating a precedent of exclusion instead of inclusion. That the point of a pre-K concert is not theatrical perfection. That you're bringing your son to the concert and they had better not create a scene in front of all the other children and parents.

THIS is exactly what I would do!!!

[MinivanMom]

Well, my neurotypical 4-yr-old (who has some issues with transitions) had a full meltdown Sunday when the elementary children (3-11) were singing at church. He got up there, took a look around the room as the kids started to sing, and then he started to wail. Not crying . . . full on wail. You could not have heard any of the singing over him, and this was a good sized group of 80+ children. I just walked to the front, scooped him up, and slid out the side door.

 

I wasn't the least bit rattled or embarrassed. I mean, he's 4, right?! If they wanted a perfect musical performance, then they shouldn't include the 4-yr-olds. Nobody minded or said anything snarky. In fact, I was inundated with comforting people after the service. About half of them wanted to comfort ds4 personally and make sure he was okay, and the other half wanted to be sure I knew that it was the funniest thing they had ever seen in their entire life. Anyone that has a problem with 4-yr-olds getting overwhelmed and crying shouldn't be working with kids.

 

In your place, I would be going straight to the principal. Now. I would rake that music teacher over the coals.

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

This is outrageous and should not be tolerated.  Go to the principal immediately.

[NorthwestMom]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

Or, because he has a positive attitude going into it, and hue has been practicing for weeks, he MIGHT be able to succeed. WTF is the point of this classroom if he is excluded because of his disability?  

 

MedicMom, I know how hurt and overwhelmed you are, but I hope you can fight this. They are really out of line here. I would call the principal and use some key phrases to REMIND THEM OF HIS LEGAL RIGHTS.

 

"Are you excluding him due to his disability?" would be my first question.  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

[BrookValley.]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

 

:grouphug:   It's very obvious you're trying to do the right thing for him. I'm sorry people are being crappy. It's also very obvious this is not your fault.

 

I really can't wrap my brain around why he can't try to participate. It's a preschool concert. He is four. :(  I can't imagine how any "professional" educator, etc., can't see this.

[NorthwestMom]

I'm even more surprised that the school psychologist called you.

 

I would definitely call back and say now that you've had time to think about it, you realize that it is wrong, possibly illegal, and completely unnecessary to exclude your son from a school activity.  That accommodations rather than exclusion would be appropriate.  That your son has been looking forward to this.  That you are against creating a precedent of exclusion instead of inclusion.  That the point of a pre-K concert is not theatrical perfection.  That you're bringing your son to the concert and they had better not create a scene in front of all the other children and parents.

 

YES!!!!!!!!! This would be my second statement to the principal.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Absolutely ridiculous. 

[Mergath]

That is outrageous.  To my knowledge, there has never been a perfect preschool concert in the history of the world.  Four-year-olds are unpredictable and have zero self control.  They cry, they forget the words, they wander around the stage, they have meltdowns.  This music teacher is an idiot if she thinks that by excluding your child she is somehow going to have the thing go off without a hitch.

 

I would absolutely fight this.  Show your son the world can't just exclude him because he's different.  I wonder if they waited until the last minute because they know what they're doing isn't strictly legal and they wanted you to think there wasn't enough time to fight it?  Ugh.  I would email local media outlets and pull my kid from the school right after the concert.

[Amira]

This shouldn't bother me so much, but it makes my heart hurt that anyone would actually tell you your son couldn't participate.  This is important to fix.   :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

I keep checking this thread to see if you have spoken with the principal yet.

 

PLEASE don't tolerate this!!! Threaten to sue the school district if you have to, but above all, let the school principal know that you will not rest until your ds is permitted to participate.

 

This is Pre-K, not Broadway.

 

I am so angry about this, and he's not even my child.

 

The psychologist has no authority here, and the teacher is breaking the law by discriminating against your son.

 

Even if you despise confrontation, do it for your son. And if you can't do it, have your dh do it.

 

Seriously. Don't let this go. This is something your son will remember. And so will you. Believe me, you don't want this to be something you look back on and be upset because you didn't fight for your boy.

[Riverland]

Absolutely Outrageous.  Please fight this for your boy.  It is wrong.  I would be shocked if it's legal.

 

If needed, get the media involved.

[Angie in VA]

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. 

 

 

I'm even more surprised that the school psychologist called you.

 

 

I was very surprised the call came from the school psychologist too. Wow. Just WOW!

 

And I hope you fight this fight, teach those school professionals a thing or two about the law (so other children don't suffer from this kind of thing in the future there) and then, if you can, take your dc out of school. Break is coming up, what a perfect time to do it. (I know, you work and you wanted a social setting for your child.)

 

(((MedicMom)))

[ErinE]

That is ridiculous. The school needs to have a plan in place for how to handle the situation if any kid has a meltdown. But to exclude your son is unacceptable, IMO, and I would tell them so. If my child was excluded from the concert, my child would not be returning to that school after break.

 

ETA: My daughters attended an elementary school that had a special classroom for children with autism. Each year, those children would be included in the holiday concert. They typically each had an aide present to help them, and to remove them from the auditorium if the situation was getting overwhelming for them. That is an appropriate way to handle the situation.

Yes, you're going to be there. If he has a meltdown, you can whisk him away to calm down. If he doesn't meltdown, he has a wonderful time. Tell those Scrooges your son will be performing.

[itsheresomewhere]

My experience- I would not be surprised if the principal already knows about this. I would be on the phone with the district now or be in the district's office.

 

 

Are you in PA? If so, I might know an advocate who might be near you.

[Tsuga]

I'm even more surprised that the school psychologist called you.

 

I would definitely call back and say now that you've had time to think about it, you realize that it is wrong, possibly illegal, and completely unnecessary to exclude your son from a school activity.  That accommodations rather than exclusion would be appropriate.  That your son has been looking forward to this.  That you are against creating a precedent of exclusion instead of inclusion.  That the point of a pre-K concert is not theatrical perfection.  That you're bringing your son to the concert and they had better not create a scene in front of all the other children and parents.

 

No more likes left so just quoting. Yes, yes, yes.

 

This thread is going to get us all out of likes!

[kitten18]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

I know it might be hard to make a phone call.

 

I would send an email to the school psychologist (and CC the principal, the director of special Ed, and the superintendent).

I would say something like, "I want to be clear, you're excluding my son from the concert because of his disability?"

 

Then sit back and wait for the fallout.

[Angie in VA]

No more likes left so just quoting. Yes, yes, yes.

 

This thread is going to get us all out of likes!

 

Exactly!

[Liz CA]

What?!?  That's unbelievable!  I think I'd be raising holy h*ll over this.

 

He is four...the other children performing with him are presumably of a similar age range? They all have potentials for meltdowns.

 

[bolt.]

Honestly, many of you who are advising to 'fight' this are thinking of fighting from a position of weakness, when really the OP has the position of strength here.

 

Position of weakness: "Please give my son your permission to participate in this event. Here's why I should get what I want, so please change your minds and do the right thing."

 

Position of strength: "My son's class is having an event, and he will be attending. Your reasons to hope he won't come haven't changed my mind about the fact that I AM bringing him. Phoning me isn't a way to control me or make my choices for me."

[ErinE]

Their intention to choose to discriminate against your child on the basis of disability is illegal. Do not tolerate it.

 

Tell the teacher, "I understand that you would prefer to exclude (name), but it is his legal and civil right to participate in all aspects of public schooling. I absolutely will NOT agree to keep him away from this event. I am bringing him to his concert, and I expect absolutely no interference with his participation. You should be grateful that I am choosing not to report your discriminatory phone call to your superiors. I guarantee that everyone above your pay grade already knew that discrimination and exclusion on the basis of special needs is not permitted in public schooling."

This! It wasn't enough to like it.

 

What the teacher wants to do is unacceptable and illegal.

[hjffkj]

OP, you are trying to do what is best for your ds by meeting his social needs the only way you can right now. You shouldn't feel bad about that at all. The school should be disgusted with themselves for treating your son so poorly. What they are doing is not legal and you have every right to shove that down their throatsby fighting for him.

 

If he wants to do it then let him do it and fight for his ability to do so. Ask for the request in writing so you have proof that they are excluding him because of his disability. If you don't have it in writing then show up at the performance as if they never said anything and put him in the performance. If you do have it in writing then take legal action against them if they continue to refuse him after you point out that it is illegal for them to do so.

[bolt.]

Step 1: Make it clear that you WILL be bringing him and making sure he participates as best he can.

 

Step 2: Bring him and help him to participate as best he can.

 

(In between, "I understand your concerns, but I don't agree, and it isn't changing my plan." -- Rinse. Repeat. YOU be the one who isn't interested in a compromise. They "ask" him not to participate. You simply don't do what they "ask". Easy. Logical. Stubborn like a granite cliff. "Why are you still contacting me? I've told you my decision.")

[ErinE]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

The psychologist said this?!?

 

Does he or she have any experience with special needs children? I would question the credentials of a psychologist that won't at least let a child try to perform.

 

Your child is four. If he starts acting out physically, he can be removed from the performance. They should be accommodating your son, not excluding him.

[Catwoman]

No more likes left so just quoting. Yes, yes, yes.

 

This thread is going to get us all out of likes!

I ran out of likes in this thread, too!

[Southern Ivy]

Their intention to choose to discriminate against your child on the basis of disability is illegal. Do not tolerate it.

 

Tell the teacher, "I understand that you would prefer to exclude (name), but it is his legal and civil right to participate in all aspects of public schooling. I absolutely will NOT agree to keep him away from this event. I am bringing him to his concert, and I expect absolutely no interference with his participation. You should be grateful that I am choosing not to report your discriminatory phone call to your superiors. I guarantee that everyone above your pay grade already knew that discrimination and exclusion on the basis of special needs is not permitted in public schooling."

 

As a teacher, I say that this is the best beginning action. Please do not go over their head right away. Chances are, if the principal is anything like mine, you will just be sent to the teacher anyway.

Definitely address it by stating what I have quoted above. But, if that doesn't work, then by all means, go higher; just give them a chance to rectify their poor choice first before calling in the cavalry. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[Catwoman]

Honestly, many of you who are advising to 'fight' this are thinking of fighting from a position of weakness, when really the OP has the position of strength here.

 

Position of weakness: "Please give my son your permission to participate in this event. Here's why I should get what I want, so please change your minds and do the right thing."

 

Position of strength: "My son's class is having an event, and he will be attending. Your reasons to hope he won't come haven't changed my mind about the fact that I bringing him. Phoning me isn't a way to control me or make my choices for me."

Excellent point, bolt!!! :hurray:

[Mergath]

Honestly, many of you who are advising to 'fight' this are thinking of fighting from a position of weakness, when really the OP has the position of strength here.

 

Position of weakness: "Please give my son your permission to participate in this event. Here's why I should get what I want, so please change your minds and do the right thing."

 

Position of strength: "My son's class is having an event, and he will be attending. Your reasons to hope he won't come haven't changed my mind about the fact that I bringing him. Phoning me isn't a way to control me or make my choices for me."

 

And really, what is the school going to do?  Drag him away sobbing in front of an audience full of parents?  Call the police to remove a four-year-old who just wants to sing in a concert?

[chiguirre]

Do you have a recording of the school psychologist? If not, I'd email her to reiterate her point of view and get it in writing. This is simply illegal. Depending on how far up the stupid runs, you may have a legal fight on your hands. I'm concerned that a school psychologist is so clueless about including kids with special needs.

 

In any case, I'd go to the concert with as big a group of friends and family as I could muster and I'd insist that he be allowed to perform. I'd also make a stink if they did try to block him. Have someone ready to get video of the whole thing (in fact get two people to be your recorders just in case). If you can rustle up a disabilities rights advocate, I'd bring them along too.

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I hate confrontation and I'd be miserable. But, you have to fight for your son and for all the other kids with special needs that are going to attend this school in the future.

 

Be brave!

[Catwoman]

Step 1: Make it clear that you WILL be bringing him and making sure he participates as best he can.

 

Step 2: Bring him and help him to participate as best he can.

 

(In between, "I understand your concerns, but I don't agree, and it isn't changing my plan." -- Rinse. Repeat. YOU be the one who isn't interested in a compromise. They "ask" him not to participate. You simply don't do what they "ask". Easy. Logical. Stubborn like a granite cliff. "Why are you still contacting me? I've told you my decision."

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Catwoman]

And really, what is the school going to do? Drag him away sobbing in front of an audience full of parents? Call the police to remove a four-year-old who just wants to sing in a concert?

That is an excellent point.

 

Honestly, it boggles my mind that this teacher and the school psychologist have nothing better to do with their time than to find reasons to exclude a 4yo from the Christmas show.

 

What kind of mean, rotten grinches are they??? :angry:

[ErinE]

I ran out of likes and multi-quote isn't working for me, but I agree with everyone thus far.

 

Don't tell a four year old he can't perform in the Christmas Concert.

 

"How the Grinch Stole Christmas" is not an instruction manual.

[MFG]

 

ETA: I did tell them I would be right there, and if it was too much for him, he could just come sit with me the rest of the time. They didn't seem interested in a compromise.

I think the compromise is they drop all this foolishness and apologize and you don't sue their @sses.

[MedicMom]

They are going to let him sing.

I will be there if he has a meltdown and he can cuddle Mommy.

 

Also I am fairly certain the school now thinks I am the crazy psycho lady from h*ll.

[AimeeM]

My son is on the spectrum. HFA with sensory issues along with a genius level IQ, which means he understands everything. And takes it all very personally.

 

From what I'm gathering from his classroom teacher they think the sensory stimuli will be too much. And it may be, but he wanted to try and is so very excited about singing. I thought if he struggled he could just come sit with me. I mean a pre k concert is what, 15 minutes?

 

the school psychologist is the one who called. I really just want to pull him out of school right now. He is academically far ahead of 4, which annoys them anyway, but socially behind. I feel like a crappy mom because he was lonely and I can't meet his social needs with my work schedule and I can't quit work right now. I really was just trying to do the right thing for him.

I think that lonely but loved and supported is loads better than what's going on now.

*hugs*