fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 How am I supposed to use her ebooks?! I have an iphone & windows laptop. Kindle too. Â Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Google and download iTunes/iBooks for windows. Â It's available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 I have iTunes on my laptop. Do I need to download iBooks as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Everything I am finding says it can only be used with an iPad. I pulled it up on laptop iTunes and it says to view it I have to use iPad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Hmm, is there iBooks for pc? Â I can read books in iBooks on my mac, right on it, not just on the ipad. Â I assumed you could download iBooks for pc and read the book on your pc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 If I can't get the ebooks-which print book? Overcoming or toolkit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Good question!  I just ordered copies of all three print books last night.  Amazon had a 25% off coupon, so I used that for one and the amazon marketplace for the other two.  So *not having used them yet* best as I can tell from talking with RB and looking at them and comparing them to the ebooks...  -Toolkit--basic number sense, place value, multiplication -Overcoming--subtraction, more advance skills (notice the higher recommended ages) -Resource--additional activities to SUPPLEMENT the other two books  That's how I see it.  I forget the ages and stages you're at to be more helpful.  RB said basically the three ebooks (Dots, C-Rods, Mult) are the equivalent of Toolkit.  So if those ebooks are what you wanted, Toolkit is what you need.  And the irony is Toolkit has a whole chapter not in the ebooks.  She touches on place value in C-Rods, but she spends a whole chapter on it in Toolkit.  That's why I went ahead and bought it.  I also wanted to read her philosophical explanations and get the few extra games.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thank you OhE!! Â I will order toolkit & go from there. Â I did email RB just to be sure I couldn't use ebooks on PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 I got a quick response from RB-ebooks only work with iPad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 We got the most use out of the the latter half of Overcoming Difficulties with Number when DS was in the 5th grade. My DS is diagnosed with dyscalculia and can subitize the dots.  His issues are more about remembering process and procedure.  The e-books are designed for young children and those that cannot perceive numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 We got the most use out of the the latter half of Overcoming Difficulties with Number when DS was in the 5th grade. My DS is diagnosed with dyscalculia and can subitize the dots. His issues are more about remembering process and procedure. The e-books are designed for young children and those that cannot perceive numbers. I really thought DDs issue was memory. So the dyscalculia has thrown me a bit although it does make sense. I really don't know if she has number sense & can subitize. I think she can. Can I assess the subitizing with MUS blocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look at the toc topics for both books. Â Totally different. Â Toolkit is meant for young kids or anyone dealing with really foundational number sense struggles like 5 is 3+2. It goes all the way up to multi-digit addition, 6 digit rounding, etc. Â That's where my ds was and the materials have been BRILLIANT for him. Â Overcoming says 9 and up and it starts with subtraction, totally skipping the foundational stuff. Â If she has any issues with number sense (what is bigger or smaller, basic addition, multiplication, place value), you need toolkit. Â But you can write RB some more and talk it through with her. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Look at the toc topics for both books. Totally different. Toolkit is meant for young kids or anyone dealing with really foundational number sense struggles like 5 is 3+2. It goes all the way up to multi-digit addition, 6 digit rounding, etc. That's where my ds was and the materials have been BRILLIANT for him. Overcoming says 9 and up and it starts with subtraction, totally skipping the foundational stuff. If she has any issues with number sense (what is bigger or smaller, basic addition, multiplication, place value), you need toolkit. But you can write RB some more and talk it through with her. I did email her & she felt toolkit would be best fit. Glad she is easy to correspond with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I really thought DDs issue was memory. So the dyscalculia has thrown me a bit although it does make sense. I really don't know if she has number sense & can subitize. I think she can. Can I assess the subitizing with MUS blocks? Your DD's math issues could be confounded by memory, processing, or any combo of issues that I have not mentioned. Â My DS has dysgraphia. Â You can assess the subitizing any number of ways. Â I used fingers and dominoes. Â You could also print up domino dot cards or a dice cube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I really thought DDs issue was memory. So the dyscalculia has thrown me a bit although it does make sense. I really don't know if she has number sense & can subitize. I think she can. Can I assess the subitizing with MUS blocks? Definitely follow Heather's suggestion below.  I did email her & she felt toolkit would be best fit. Glad she is easy to correspond with!  People like RB and Susan Barton rock my world.  They seem to genuinely care and haven't gotten so disconnected from the people they created their materials for that they aren't willing to still step in and help directly when asked.  Love that.  Your DD's math issues could be confounded by memory, processing, or any combo of issues that I have not mentioned.  My DS has dysgraphia.  You can assess the subitizing any number of ways.  I used fingers and dominoes.  You could also print up domino dot cards or a dice cube. OhE and Heathermomster have lots of great points.  Just wanted to emphasize the bolded above.  My kids have similar diagnoses but struggle in different ways.  It takes a lot of time, patience and effort to tweak it all out.  I've been at this over 2 years now and I still don't know exactly what is happening with every issue/strength.  But we are a whole lot further along than we were and many of the things we have tried to help their various difficulties are working.  Yeah!  Just be aware that sussing it all could take time.  Don't get down if one label and one "solution" for that label don't immediately fix all your child's woes.  It doesn't usually work that way,  :)  As for math specifically, I had no idea there was even such a thing as weak subitization skills until ladies on this board and my own research helped me better understand what that means.  My child was already in 5th grade.  She could add.  How could she not have the very very basic skills needed for math?  But once I understood it better, I started noticing things like she ALWAYS had to add up all the dots on the dice to know the quantity being shown.  Like if she rolled a 4 and a 5, there was no way she would know that was 9 without counting each dot.  And if you told her "I just rolled a 5" using 2 dice she would not have known that meant only 2 possibilities, 1 and 4 or 2 and 3.   How does your child do with adding up quantities from dice?  Does she have to count each dot?  Can she tell automatically if you have a group of objects that contain only 4 and another group of objects containing 6 items, without counting, that the group of six is larger?   Read the Toolkit book.  RB has some pretty good info there (I just wish the font were bigger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 OneStep, did you notice Overcoming comes in a Kindle version? Â :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Actually I hadn't. Â I will look into that. Â Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Definitely follow Heather's suggestion below. Â Â People like RB and Susan Barton rock my world. They seem to genuinely care and haven't gotten so disconnected from the people they created their materials for that they aren't willing to still step in and help directly when asked. Love that. Â OhE and Heathermomster have lots of great points. Just wanted to emphasize the bolded above. My kids have similar diagnoses but struggle in different ways. It takes a lot of time, patience and effort to tweak it all out. I've been at this over 2 years now and I still don't know exactly what is happening with every issue/strength. But we are a whole lot further along than we were and many of the things we have tried to help their various difficulties are working. Yeah! Just be aware that sussing it all could take time. Don't get down if one label and one "solution" for that label don't immediately fix all your child's woes. It doesn't usually work that way, :) Â As for math specifically, I had no idea there was even such a thing as weak subitization skills until ladies on this board and my own research helped me better understand what that means. My child was already in 5th grade. She could add. How could she not have the very very basic skills needed for math? But once I understood it better, I started noticing things like she ALWAYS had to add up all the dots on the dice to know the quantity being shown. Like if she rolled a 4 and a 5, there was no way she would know that was 9 without counting each dot. And if you told her "I just rolled a 5" using 2 dice she would not have known that meant only 2 possibilities, 1 and 4 or 2 and 3. Â How does your child do with adding up quantities from dice? Does she have to count each dot? Can she tell automatically if you have a group of objects that contain only 4 and another group of objects containing 6 items, without counting, that the group of six is larger? Â Read the Toolkit book. RB has some pretty good info there (I just wish the font were bigger). Thank you! Â I loved that she emailed me so quickly. And the way she wrote-was like she knew me. It was a very human response to a mom who is feeling overwhelmed-I really appreciated it. Â Yes-the math lingo is all new to me! Subitizing-who knew? Anyway-I really appreciate all the advice & hugs & everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Your DD's math issues could be confounded by memory, processing, or any combo of issues that I have not mentioned. My DS has dysgraphia. Â You can assess the subitizing any number of ways. I used fingers and dominoes. You could also print up domino dot cards or a dice cube. Thank you-I will try some of the subitizing activities & see how it goes. Â It's hard when there are so many things going on. With DD-tumor, meds, ADHD, processing speed, etc-who knows what all is in play? A million things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thank you-I will try some of the subitizing activities & see how it goes. Â It's hard when there are so many things going on. With DD-tumor, meds, ADHD, processing speed, etc-who knows what all is in play? A million things. I am so sorry you are having to deal with SO MANY things at once, some incredibly serious and adding all kinds of unknown factors to the mix. Â Big humongous hugs. Â :grouphug:Â :grouphug:Â :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Learning to name different sides of a dice, shouldn't be confused with 'subitizing'?  Subitizing is the ability to instantly recognize 2, 3 or 4 randomly placed objects, as different sized groups. With an emphasis on random arrangement. Which is different from learning to name dot patterns on a dice? If we used a 'base 12' number system, then dice would be relevant. But it's use in learning to use  'base 10' number system? Is really questionable?  While dice might be harmless and perhaps helpful for a child that is having a 'bit of a difficulty' with learning math? Its use for children with Dyscalculia, is highly questionable? Where it could have a negative effect? Given its contradictory use of a base 12 system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Call me crazy, but I don't think RB envisions the dot patterns as a *stopping* point for number sense and quantity recognition. Â I think it's a really good idea to shake it up and transfer it to more scenarios, situations where it isn't fixed. Â But just to get the quantity sense AT ALL with ANY item is a start. Â My ds has been able to go from the strict structure of the early RB dots lessons to the finger soroban, no problem. Â Those numbers had NO meaning before, despite our normal lifestyle math. Â Getting it fixed at least gave him someplace to start. Â But I don't think where you start is where you stay, totally agreed. Â And RB apparently is a big voice for dyscalculia in the UK. Â Â What do you mean by 12 base system? Â Are you saying there won't be flexible or is there something I'm missing? Â You mean like they won't be able transfer it to recognizing parts of inches and feet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Though Math uses a whole range of different base number systems. Where difference is with where the 'place value' is positioned, to form 10. The base 12 system, actually has different single symbols for 10 and 11. So that it carries about 11. Where 10 is the symbol for 12. With inches, the symbol for 12 is 1' and named as foot. Â Yet we use a range of different base number systems. Where Time is the best example of this. With base 60 used for seconds and minutes, Then base 24 for hours. Followed by base 7 for days of the week. Then base 12 for months. Coming back to base 10 for years. Â So that when a child is learning all of these? They are actually learning a whole range of different Base Number Systems. Which have their different advantages? Where the 10 base is limited, as its divisors are only 2 and 5. Whereas with 12 ? It has divisors of 2,3,4 and 6. So that a half, third, quarter and a sixth? Can be directly associated with a whole number. Â But with base 10, a half and fifths only be associated with their whole numbers of 2 and 5. Where the base 12 system, is far better for concieving of fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Though Math uses a whole range of different base number systems. Where difference is with where the 'place value' is positioned, to form 10. The base 12 system, actually has different single symbols for 10 and 11. So that it carries about 11. Where 10 is the symbol for 12. With inches, the symbol for 12 is 1' and named as foot. Â Yet we use a range of different base number systems. Where Time is the best example of this. With base 60 used for seconds and minutes, Then base 24 for hours. Followed by base 7 for days of the week. Then base 12 for months. Coming back to base 10 for years. Â So that when a child is learning all of these? They are actually learning a whole range of different Base Number Systems. Which have their different advantages? Where the 10 base is limited, as its divisors are only 2 and 5. Whereas with 12 ? It has divisors of 2,3,4 and 6. So that a half, third, quarter and a sixth? Can be directly associated with a whole number. Â But with base 10, a half and fifths only be associated with their whole numbers of 2 and 5. Where the base 12 system, is far better for concieving of fractions. Ahh, so you're saying limiting to base 10 isn't sustainable or the most efficient method of chunking over the long-run, hmm. Â And that's interesting to think about. Â I haven't even gotten her multiplication ebook yet to see where she goes with it. Â Surely she's caught onto those relationship. Â I hadn't really thought of it that way but it makes sense. Â So how do you like to apply that information? Â What are you suggesting we do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Based upon the RB books that I have seen, RB teaches basic math in a base 10 system. Â There are no fraction, decimal, measurement, or elapsed time questions. Â For multiplication, RB teaches the underlying math skills required for multiplication and then demonstrates multiplication using c-rods. Â The c-rod work transitions to the area model, which is the pictorial representation of the distributive property of multiplication. Â Thus far, DS has aced algebra work pertaining to quadratics and polynomial multiplication because of the skills taught by RB. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Brain expanding. Â Brain expanding. Â Love it when brain expands..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Learning to name different sides of a dice, shouldn't be confused with 'subitizing'?  Subitizing is the ability to instantly recognize 2, 3 or 4 randomly placed objects, as different sized groups. With an emphasis on random arrangement. Which is different from learning to name dot patterns on a dice? If we used a 'base 12' number system, then dice would be relevant. But it's use in learning to use 'base 10' number system? Is really questionable?  While dice might be harmless and perhaps helpful for a child that is having a 'bit of a difficulty' with learning math? Its use for children with Dyscalculia, is highly questionable? Where it could have a negative effect? Given its contradictory use of a base 12 system? I suggested the OP use dominoes or a dice cube to ASSESS the ability to subitize. There are six carefully arranged dots on one die. She could also use dominos. If a child cannot recognize UP to six carefully arranged dots, I seriously doubt they would be able to instantly recognize UP to six disorganized dots or items. I didn't want the OP to think she had to run off and spend money purchasing MUS blocks when she could use common household items. Ultimately, I assumed the OP needs to pick a book and I was attempting to narrow down the selection. This base 12 discussion is weird and not relevant to young children learning to count. Yes, first grade students are taught to read a clock to the half and quarter hour. Yes, the same student might measure to inches or feet, but that fact doesn't make RB materials questionable. The only thing that RB does not suggest or incorporate with her materials is the Neo-Soroban finger counting method that you introduced a couple weeks back. I can imagine tangible growth for a maths disabled student using the fingers as you described to perceive numbers.  RB advocates explicit and direct instruction using manipulatives. After the concept is understood by manipulatives, she transitions the math concept to pictures. Afterwards, the concept is taught using the standard math form. Some students bypass the concept in picture and move directly to the abstract and standard math form.  After the subitizing is mastered, RB demonstrates how number bonds and decomposed numbers are utilized when solving addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division problems. RB's methods are not part of some all inclusive math curriculum. Her methods work as supports to the struggling student. Am I making sense at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Bingo. Â People need to realize RB's materials are meant as *supplements* and for tutoring, not as an entire curriculum replacement. Â She assumes the student is in a school using some kind of curriculum that catches all the extra subjects not covered. Â It's also not reasonable to assume she's hitting EVERY subject a math tutor might hit over time. Â She's very specifically interested in dyscalculia (number sense). Â I think geodob's point on the base systems is actually well-taken, because most curricula DO make these connections. Â I know RightStart did. Â They're perfectly valid, normal questions to ask and connections to make. Â But again, I refer you back to the fact that RB assumes you're using a curriculum. Â That's like saying Barton is complete language arts for all ages of students just because it covers a very vital component of LA and includes some writing and spelling. Â Obviously it's not. Â Obviously you're going to add work on reading comprehension, composition, etc. as age-appropriate, and Barton says to. Â But you wouldn't have to for certain situations and could make that choice as a teacher that *for right now* the foundation built by the tutoring program might be so important that you focus on that and add in the other stuff later. Â Â Same deal with RB. Â It's OUR responsibility to make sure we're covering all the topics we want covered. Â RB is not representing itself as complete curriculum. Â Users should be very clear on that. Â I'm interested to look through the rest of the books when they come, btw. Â I hadn't even thought about how she covers fractions, so I'm curious to see. Â Honestly, I'm hoping some of the more living math type stuff I have for January will take us down that road. Â It's not like RB is the only way to explore things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't recall RB ever covering fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don't recall RB ever covering fractions. Â And that's so whackadoodle, because I agree with geodob they're problematic and could be integrated with other topics! Â RB does such a great job on the things she *does* cover. Â Sigh... Â Ok, now I'm interested to get my other two books when they come! Â Overcoming came yesterday. Â It's here, on my desk. Â Â Adding: Ok, recant. Â Fractions are in Overcoming. Â They're just not really a thorough presentation. Â She's clearly making connections and approaching them in an interesting way even here, but it's sideline, not really a thorough presentation. Â Well poodle fuzz. Â We need to write her and BEG. Â Or else it's in the other books and we don't realize it, sigh. Â I wonder why she didn't? Â Maybe she figures it comes? Â Maybe there's just no money in writing these books? Â That would probably be it. Â PS. Â I wrote her! Â We'll see what she says. Â :) Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I used MUS for fraction work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 RB wrote back!  She said she hasn't published anything on fractions because she doesn't feel she has anything to add.  She refers us to the work of Mahesh Sharma, especially his dvd on fractions.  http://mathematicsforall.us/?page_id=351  http://www.mathematicsforall.org/Mathematics-Teacher-Training-Videos-Framingham-MA.html  I do not know if the videos at that first length represent the entirety of what would be on the video you could buy.  Interestingly, what he's doing looks very similar to RightStart.  RB adds that she's death on circles for fractions, something RS avoids as well.  Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 I actually do have MUS blocks. Best I can remember-she can remember what each block stood for-8 is brown, etc. and she can use blocks to solve for unknown-what plus 3 equals 7. So she can use blocks & seemed to understand them. She has never been able to remember math facts though. If blocks aren't there she uses fingers. If she is adding & the sum is over 10-she can't do it. Numbers over 10 seem to be very abstract to her. Place value is hard for her. Â The Toolkit book should be here next week so after the holidays I will try to pin down her exact struggles. Â I don't know if she has to count every dot or block or if are can count up. I also don't know if she could tell me all the ways to make a 4 or a 10. And poor dd is inpatient this week having testing done for seizures. Hoping her & DH will be home tonight but it's still unclear. So that's why I can't answer those questions for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Oh she also has trouble knowing what to do-do I add or subtract here? I have to re-word math problems for her a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 While this word 'subitizing' is used. It really needs to be understood what it actually is? Â Where it is actually the brains ability to use spacial thinking. To take randomly placed objects, and identify them as a certain sized group. As an automatic process. For those without spacial difficulties. It can automatically recognize 2, 3 and 4 randomly placed objects as a group. Where they are concieved of as these different sized groups. Which retain an association with 2,3 or 4 individual objects. Â Where this ability, is what subitizing refers to. This ability to form and recognize the difference between groups of 2,3 and 4 objects. Â But 4 objects, are the limit to this automatic recognition. When presented with 5 randomly placed objects? It needs to divide them into groups, of either 1 and 4, or 2 and 3. Â Then add them together, to form a larger group of 5. Â While the objects in the 1 to 4 groups, maintain their individual identity. With 5 objects, they lose their individual identity. Where the process of addition is introduced. Using the concept of adding groups together, to form larger groups. Â So that with Subitizing, it is basically the ability to automatically recognize the difference between groups of 1,2,3 and 4. Then to be able to add them together, and concieve of 1 and 4, or 2 and 3 ? As a single group of 5. With this single group of 5. Then we can add a group of 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 to it. So that these combined groups, can produce new groups of 6,7,8 or 9. But their remains an awareness, of the groups that can be combined to form 6,7,8 or 9. Â Where at the heart of this, is the ability to concieve of these different sized groups. Which later can be associated with the words and symbols that we call numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 geodob, I agree with what you are saying regarding the post above mine.  I did it poorly, but this is what I was referring to earlier.  My daughter, before Dynamo Math and Ronit Bird, had no idea there were subgroups of 5.  She couldn't break anything into groups without having to count each individual thing.   After DM and RB, one day, while DS and I were playing a board game, DS rolled and got a 5 with two die.  DD did not see the board or the die.  She was sitting on the floor working on something else.  Out of the blue, she asked DS if he rolled a 1 and a 4 or a  2 and a 3.  While it might not seem monumental to anyone else, I KNEW that was a huge moment for her.  She had NEVER been able to "feel" inside herself that there were set groups of numbers that would always make up the same total before RB and DM.  There were no groups of numbers, no subitization.  It all seemed random to her.  She had to count each and every item each and every time, KWIM?   But after RB and DM, suddenly that seemingly simple yet rather critical and frankly rather devastating missing component was finally there.  She had "seen" in her own head that if he rolled a 5 with two die, there were only two possible subgroup options.  She knew it and articulated it.  And I was thrilled.  Yes, at 12 she should already have known this.  It seems so small.  But when that missing part isn't there, it can be heart wrenching realizing just how important this piece is but your child may never have that critical component.  For her brain to actually finally make that critical connection, when I didn't think she ever could, was a very special moment indeed.  The fact that now she can see "groups" gives me hope that other things will improve, too, (with time, and patience, and the explicit, detailed instruction that RB and DM and other systems like those provide). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I can fully appreciate how thrilled you were! Where it goes beyond seeing, to sensing 5 as a group, and then sensing different sized groups within it. Â A Monument for 5. Which can be built with 4 blocks and 1 on top. Or 3 blocks and 2 on top. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Yes, that's really the thing, isn't it? Â Not just seeing but sensing. Â I am a very visually oriented person. Â When I speak I even frequently "see" the words I am speaking. Â Â But in working with DD and her struggling number sense it became obvious that for most people certain things with numbers are just subconsciously there, or should be. Â We sense them. Â We feel them, without really having to think it through or even be aware that we are feeling their existence. Â Â I am terrible at math. Â But I can "sense" subgroups just sort of automatically. Â And like with dominoes or rolling die, I can add up those subgroups without having to think through that process or counting each dot or whatever. Â That "sense" of numbers is just there. With all of DD's struggles with math, I just assumed she was having the same issues I did. Â I didn't really realize there was a deeper problem until we were beginning to homeschool. Â And even then I attributed the issues entirely to dyslexia and the same really awful math teacher for 3 years before we started homeschooling. Â Those things contributed. Â But they were not the whole picture. Â It took time, research and the wonderful ladies on this board to find that bigger picture and the more concerning exacerbating cause of her difficulties. Â I guess that is one big reason why it has taken sooooo much longer for the scientific and educational community to begin to realize that dyscalculia exists. Â That basic number sense starts so early in our existence it is hard to separate it out and recognize that there might be a scenario where someone didn't have it. Â OP, good luck to you as you journey through this. Â I hope the RB book helps. Â Hugs and best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Number sense starts very early in our existence ! Where studies with 3 month old babies? Have simply used a mini stage, where 3 objects appear. Then a board is very briefly drawn to cover the stage, and then removed a few seconds later. Â But during this, one object has been removed. Leaving two objects. Using electrodes attached to babies scalp, it has been shown that typically babies will look around for the missing object? While they aren't thinking in numbers? Â What this highlights, is a babies ability to recognize and concieve of different sized groups. Â Though this could potentially be used, for a very early test of future Dyscalculia? But this would first require an extensive study, with perhaps a 1,000 babies. To identify whether about 8% of babies didn't recognize the change from 3 to 2 objects? Then to do a long term study, to see whether the babies that didn't react to a change from 3 objects to 2? Went on to become Dyscalculic? Which could result in very early diagnosis of potential math difficulties? So that remedial interventions, could begin with 3 month old babies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 :lol: Â I had a very stubborn 3 month old, geodob. Â In fact, she remained pretty stubborn until, well, now. Â :laugh: Â Only thankfully now she is old enough to reason with. Â I'm trying to picture trying to work on remediation with her at 3 months. Â What in the world would that look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Did RB happen to mention if she planned on making the ebooks available on Kindle? I was trying to send her an email, but the link wouldn't work. I really have no idea where to start my dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Did RB happen to mention if she planned on making the ebooks available on Kindle? I was trying to send her an email, but the link wouldn't work. I really have no idea where to start my dd. I never asked her. Â If the kindle is small, that might be a pain. Â You can do iBooks on a pc. Â I don't know if you can do iBooks on android, hmm. Â If you can, then you could sideload it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I never asked her. Â If the kindle is small, that might be a pain. Â You can do iBooks on a pc. Â I don't know if you can do iBooks on android, hmm. Â If you can, then you could sideload it. Â I thought that I read upthread that someone wasn't able to access it on their computer... something about it saying that they needed to view the materials on the iPad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minerva Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I contacted RB about her ebooks and she said that they are formatted for Ipads and Mac users only. This is because there is video content, and she has no plans for making available for other formats. She directed me to her books and her youtube videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I contacted RB about her ebooks and she said that they are formatted for Ipads and Mac users only. This is because there is video content, and she has no plans for making available for other formats. She directed me to her books and her youtube videos. She told me the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I contacted RB about her ebooks and she said that they are formatted for Ipads and Mac users only. This is because there is video content, and she has no plans for making available for other formats. She directed me to her books and her youtube videos. I've never bothered to search youtube for RB videos.  Does she have her own channel?  Are the videos any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I've never bothered to search youtube for RB videos. Â Does she have her own channel? Â Are the videos any good? I'm curious, too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I ended up getting an email sent through and RB told me the same. :( Boohoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Ipad pixie dust? Â If the ebooks are on-level for your dc, it might be worth getting an ipad to be able to use them. Â If not, get the books and move on. Â Mine finally came. Â I bought all 3. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Ipad pixie dust? Â If the ebooks are on-level for your dc, it might be worth getting an ipad to be able to use them. If not, get the books and move on. Mine finally came. I bought all 3. How do the print books compare to the ebooks? I have Toolkit & find it hard to follow for some reason. I am really not sure how to use it or what to do first, what to skip if DD gets it. I may just need to study it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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