........

[Catwoman]

Personally, I think a moderate amount of junk food is just fine if the majority of the diet is good.

 

I know a mom who absolutely would never, ever, ever let her ds eat anything but homemade whole foods. Every last thing that went into that kid's mouth was healthy. He never had fast food or junky snacks. NEVER. EVER. EVER.

 

So then he went off to college...

 

And it's like he made up for all those years of deprivation, because he now eats mainly junk food and has gained a lot of weight. His mother is mortified and can't understand where she went wrong.

 

Personally, I think her overall plan was incredibly admirable, but I also think that if she would have loosened up a little as her ds was growing up and sometimes let him go to McDonald's with his friends, he wouldn't have viewed it as such a "forbidden fruit."

 

If my ds wants fast food, I usually get it for him -- and he knows I will -- and I think that may be a big reason why he doesn't ask for it very often. It's the same thing with soda. We always have it in the house, but we don't drink it on a regular basis. If any of us felt that the stuff was forbidden, I think it would make it far more tempting than it is when we know we can have it whenever we would like.

 

As a few others have already said, I'm all about moderation.

[Catwoman]

Of course it does. That's why I'm having salad for dinner. To magically undo all the holiday cookies I consumed while baking with the kids today.

I can't even begin to tell you how relieved I am. :D

 

I can't believe Jasperstone would toy with my emotions that way. She always seemed so nice... ;)

[TranquilMind]

Mmm.

When DS5 was hospitalized for his surgery, one could say he was certainly "sick", or at least "ill".

We turned cartwheels when he was able to keep down any food - even crap food. He wasn't allowed to leave the hospital until he was able to keep something... ANYTHING... down. We were also told, by those people who go to medical school for these things (lol), that then wasn't the time to be picky about WHAT our 15 lb eighteen-month-old son was eating.

I think everyone is clear that in times of desperation, you do what you need to do.  I had a relative who was starving because she refused to eat. She had an undiagnosed infection.  The doctor told me to get her cheesecake or whatever she would eat, so I did, for a short time.

When the infection was resolved, she began eating again.  Sometimes any calories will do, just not regularly and for the long term. 

[Spryte]

I can't even begin to tell you how relieved I am. :D

 

I can't believe Jasperstone would toy with my emotions that way. She always seemed so nice... ;)

 

It's important that we keep things real on the internet, and combat any nutritional myths that might be floating around.  Wouldn't want someone to get false information from a thread here.   :D

[TranquilMind]

Personally, I think a moderate amount of junk food is just fine if the majority of the diet is good.

 

I know a mom who absolutely would never, ever, ever let her ds eat anything but homemade whole foods. Every last thing that went into that kid's mouth was healthy. He never had fast food or junky snacks. NEVER. EVER. EVER.

 

So then he went off to college...

 

And it's like he made up for all those years of deprivation, because he now eats mainly junk food and has gained a lot of weight. His mother is mortified and can't understand where she went wrong.

 

Personally, I think her overall plan was incredibly admirable, but I also think that if she would have loosened up a little as her ds was growing up and sometimes let him go to McDonald's with his friends, he wouldn't have viewed it as such a "forbidden fruit."

 

If my ds wants fast food, I usually get it for him -- and he knows I will -- and I think that may be a big reason why he doesn't ask for it very often. It's the same thing with soda. We always have it in the house, but we don't drink it on a regular basis. If any of us felt that the stuff was forbidden, I think it would make it far more tempting than it is when we know we can have it whenever we would like.

 

As a few others have already said, I'm all about moderation.

Yes, not a fan of the "forbidden" food.  I think of it more as a holiday thing.  Birthdays.  Celebrating.  I hope my kids do too, over time. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was the recipient (again) of the "this diet will cure you" spiel last Sunday (not from a doctor).  I was told to cut out gluten and eat leafy greens and other veggies with some protein.  Guess what I already eat?  it ticked me off, frankly.  And in revenge I went and ate a bag of gluten free potato chips!  

[TranquilMind]

LOL.

The reason people have heart attacks while mowing (and shoveling snow) is due to the increased strain on the heart.  They are usually older people who lead sedentary lives and aren't used to exercise, and go out into the extremes of weather (super hot/cold) and get their heart working too hard.

 

Please show me ONE reputable source for your claim.

That's the normal response.  But what if this is a factor?  Who knows?  I wouldn't automatically discount it just because it isn't common cardiac orthodoxy. 

 

Not much that is really the truth is common medical advice. Hence, this entire thread.

[ocelotmom]

??

 

Maybe we are talking about different things. I am talking about a JAWM vent here used to prevent explosion elsewhere and a brief cohort with like minded or at least understanding persons.

 

Her expressed here opinion doesn't impact anyone "potential harm in this for families who have been thrilled to have their loved one just eat SOMETHING".

 

I don't think JAWM should be a soapbox for saying whatever the heck you want with no dissent allowed.

 

I imagine that if I was someone who had been in that situation, and perhaps had made a similar FB post, I'd be feeling judged, questioning whether my friends were having similar feelings about my post, and generally wanting to respond.

 

I think that the inclusion of the post about the kid eating McDonalds is what touched a nerve for me. A JAWM about the horribleness of hospital food in general wouldn't bother me (and I suspect most people would agree on that), but criticizing someone's food choices for their child is much more personal, even if the exact person in question isn't actually reading the post, since there are undoubtedly those here who have made similar choices/posts.

[ThisIsTheDay]

And my cousin, who runs marathons, runs at least 6 miles a day in training and eats low carb and organically as possible has Breast Cancer and will go in breast reconstruction surgery soon. Her overall health will help her to fight the cancer, but it sure didn't prevent her from getting cancer.

 

 

:confused1:   I don't understand why you quoted my post and are replying as if you disagree with me. 

 

Your response indicates that you believe diet has no effect on health, but I am sure that you don't really believe that.  I don't understand what your point is.  I'm confused.

 

 

[MFG]

The magical powers of McDonald's salad reminded me of the scene in Gilmore Girls where Lorelei and Rory claim that they are eating vegetables because there *had been* a piece of lettuce on their hamburgers and it had left its "essence". I tried to find a YouTube clip but it looks like no one has isolated that particular scene.

[Jasperstone]

I'm sure the strenous load on the heart also has a contributing factor as well. But to dismiss what this clever man told my dh about the vibration because there's no 'scientific studies' is foolish .

 

He is also a scientists, but isn't sold out to the pharmaceutical industry etc.... So I trust his judgments, and advice.

 

That's just me though ;-)

[Jasperstone]

That's the normal response. But what if this is a factor? Who knows? I wouldn't automatically discount it just because it isn't common cardiac orthodoxy.

 

Not much that is really the truth is common medical advice. Hence, this entire thread.

Exactly!

[Tsuga]

 

I know a mom who absolutely would never, ever, ever let her ds eat anything but homemade whole foods. Every last thing that went into that kid's mouth was healthy. He never had fast food or junky snacks. NEVER. EVER. EVER.

 

First of all, I think it's normal to rebel in college. I did, gained the freshman 15, but then lost the weight when I realized what was happening and decided to live the lifestyle I knew kept me healthy. On the other hand, a good 1/3rd of girls who entered college with me were slightly or very overweight--they didn't suddenly learn great eating habits at 18 and lose weight and get healthy. They just stayed where they were. I'd rather have my kids in my situation, with a healthy start and knowledge.

 

But more importantly, it is one thing to provide only healthy food most of the time, and entirely another to control everything that goes into your kids mouths.

 

My own kids get candy at least twice a week from random places: this or that class, this or that neighbor, this or that well-meaning retail clerk. They also buy their own pop and candy very occasionally.

 

We bake our own Christmas cookies. We eat cookies. They are great.

 

We don't have cookies sitting on the shelf all year long and we don't snack between meals. If it's not food, buy it yourself. I provide, you choose, and lucky you, there are others who provide junk food besides your mom.

 

On the one hand, I think that we live lives of moderation.

 

On the other hand, to most Americans I am a food Nazi.

 

Is it really so totally insane to eat three meals a day and not to buy pop? Like, when did that become the crazy controlling option? It's like we've been brainwashed to think McD's and Coke are the default options, the "normal" way. To me that is not the case. I don't see them as food, I don't see them as normal.

[Luanne]

I might get flamed, but I'd actually rather my kid drink a diet soda than juice.  Lot of calories and sugar in juice.  And not enough nutritional value to cancel that out.

 

I buy juice once in a blue moon.  I consider it an indulgent treat.

 

I might agree with you here, but DIET soda has tons of artificial chemicals in it.  I won't put that in my body and wouldn't let my child do it either.  Regular soda is better for you than diet is.

 

[Guest]

I might agree with you here, but DIET soda has tons of artificial chemicals in it. I won't put that in my body and wouldn't let my child do it either. Regular soda is better for you than diet is.

 

Unless you have insulin issues. Looking at the guts on Americans, I'd say there are lots of undiagnosed insulin issues.

[Haiku]

Well, I am glad the OP doesn't know me or anything about my life, because she'd probably find something to be rude and vicious about.

 

I mean, really ... complete ignorance? Dumber than a bag of rocks? And we're supposed to excuse the cruelty of the post because it has JAWM in the title?

 

Um, no thanks. JAWM doesn't give one carte blanche to be mean.

[Luanne]

Unless you have insulin issues. Looking at the guts on Americans, I'd say there are lots of undiagnosed insulin issues.

 

I can't disagree with you there.

 

[Catwoman]

I might agree with you here, but DIET soda has tons of artificial chemicals in it. I won't put that in my body and wouldn't let my child do it either. Regular soda is better for you than diet is.

 

We drink regular soda, too. I hate the taste of artificial sweeteners and I'm pretty sure aspartame is a migraine trigger for me. We don't drink that much soda so the calories aren't an issue for us.

[LibraryLover]

I think this is a tender topic for folks because some of us have had children scared in the hospital. When you're worried about your little one being miserable, you might do things you know are not optimal. I wish I had been stronger, but I was in a  Whatever it Takes! place.

 

I do have a sick family member making some pretty bad choices, so I understand the frustrations of OP 100%

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think this is a tender topic for folks because some of us have had children scared in the hospital. When you're worried about your little one being miserable, you might do things you know are not optimal. I wish I had been stronger, but I was in a  Whatever it Takes! place.

 

I do have a sick family member making some pretty bad choices, so I understand the frustrations of OP 100%

True.  I think it also tender for me because I've had so many people blame me for my own illness.  It can be a catch-22 though because when I'm at my worst, I'm at the point where it is hardest to get healthy food for myself.  Sometimes when it is hard to stand up for even five minutes at a time, it's hard to chop veggies.  Sometimes it is mentally hard because as others have stated, you crave comfort food when you're feeling your worst and while I like kale, it just is not comfort food for me.  So now that I'm feeling better at the moment, I'm eating much better but it took feeling better to allow me to pursue the good food to some extent.  The best people in my life have been the people who have skipped the judgment and nutrition lectures and have made me food that has been tasty and nutritious.  There haven't been many of those - about three in the past 20 years but bless those people 1000 times!  

 

I'm sure it varies widely by location, but our hospitals have very good choices on their menu.  Tasty and healthy.

[kiana]

I'm sure the strenous load on the heart also has a contributing factor as well. But to dismiss what this clever man told my dh about the vibration because there's no 'scientific studies' is foolish .

 

He is also a scientists, but isn't sold out to the pharmaceutical industry etc.... So I trust his judgments, and advice.

 

That's just me though ;-)

 

There are a lot of very clever people who make plausible-sounding statements that have no connection to reality. 

[Jasperstone]

There are a lot of very clever people who make plausible-sounding statements that have no connection to reality.

 

He's not only clever, but cures people as well. So the proof is in the pudding.

 

I just came back from a consultation with him, and while in the waiting room spoke to a grandma that has been seeing him for awhile. She told me that he cured her granddaughter. I'm not going to say from what, as many of you won't believe it. And I'll only get mocked anyway.

 

I will tell you though that she was cured from a flesh eating bug years ago. And the home achooling lady that put me onto him, daughter, is well now, when doctors didnt know what to do for her.

 

I feel extremely blessed living fairly near to the most brilliant man.

[kiana]

The placebo effect is really good at curing people as well.

 

Challenging the assertion is not a specific attack on you nor your doctor. Rather, when things which are not medically accurate are allowed to stand unchallenged, people start to believe them because they read it on the internet. If it were the vibration, we would not observe a similar rate of heart attacks from shoveling snow or other strenuous activities which do not involve vibration, and we WOULD observe a high rate of heart attacks after riding over poorly maintained roads, in poorly maintained cars, riding on the train, mowing the lawn with a riding mower, or in other non-strenuous activities which involve vibration. 

[kroe1]

But to be healthy your body needs nutrition, and you can only get that from nourishing foods and juices.

 

It's not like you can eat junk daily, while washing vitamins down with diet Coke to stay healthy.

I agree with you statistically, but I am living proof there are exceptions. Since the very first McDonald's opened up in our town, I have eaten at one every day of my life, sometimes two or three times a day. (Almost 50 years of Mickey Ds) The convenience fits my lifestyle. Diet Coke fits my addiction.

 

I am now almost 60. I am not overweight. As a matter of fact, most people would kill for my figure. I have no chronic health problems and never had except a few skin cancers from all the burns I got as a child, the last time I checked my cholesterol, the total was only 92, in spite of my heinous diet. I do take a multi vitamin many days and drink some Metamucil about once a week to get fiber I need. But, yes, there are a few of us fast food indulging survivors.

 

DS35 was also raised on McDonald's and is still slim and trim without any health problems. Luckily, he has a great cooking wife now who keeps his McDonald's trips confined to breakfast.

[Jasperstone]

The placebo effect is really good at curing people as well.

 

Challenging the assertion is not a specific attack on you nor your doctor. Rather, when thing's which are not medically accurate are allowed to stand unchallenged, people start to believe them because they read it on the internet. If it were the vibration, we would not observe a similar rate of heart attacks from shoveling snow or other strenuous activities which do not involve vibration, and we WOULD observe a high rate of heart attacks after riding over poorly maintained roads, in poorly maintained cars, riding on the train, mowing the lawn with a riding mower, or in other non-strenuous activities which involve vibration.

Cool, good to know that placebo effect can cure flesh eating bugs!

 

Seriously, a train ride, a bumpy road compared to mowing? Have you ever mowed? There's a lot more vibration there shaking the arms and chest area. The neck artery is also getting a big shaking.

 

Anyway I shared my findings, and if you don't agree then fine. I don't benefit either way, and knew that there would be skeptics ready to pounce.

 

I just thought it might be helpful to someone.

[Pawz4me]

Yeah!!!! My dh was just told last month to NOT mow..... the reason is the vibration of the mower breaks off plague and must clog the heart etc. ...

Also are you sure we can't *open house* it around the same time as the inspection, as you are there any way already etc....

 

 

We are seeing a super amazing ex doctor and bio chemist who specializes in homeopathy, naturopath, Chinese medicine and more.

 

Ummm . . . assuming that were true (it's not) wouldn't the logical advice be to mow very regularly, starting at a young age, as preventative medicine?  Because that should keep the arteries clear.

[MFG]

Not everything a scientist says is science. My Dh has a PhD in a hard science and there are many, many areas in which he is no more knowledgeable than an intelligent layperson.

[SKL]

I have nothing against alternative medicine.  But in my experience, those who practice in alternative medicine are even more particular about a healthy diet than MDs.

[kristi26]

OP, I agree with you. Honestly.  I just wanted to offer up what I do to deal with those people on Facebook.  I hide their updates. Then I don't see what they are doing and I can't get upset about something I didn't see. ;)

[Spryte]

OP, I agree with you. Honestly. I just wanted to offer up what I do to deal with those people on Facebook. I hide their updates. Then I don't see what they are doing and I can't get upset about something I didn't see. ;)

I don't do Facebook, but I think this is a great idea. :)

[Guest]

Jasperstone, you sure know a lot of people cured of very serious illnesses with alternative medicine. I know none. Interesting.

[Haiku]

Jasperstone, you sure know a lot of people cured of very serious illnesses with alternative medicine. I know none. Interesting.

 

I know two people who were cured by alternative medicine of serious, life-threatening illnesses that they were convinced they had. The thing is, the only people who ever "diagnosed" these people were the alternative practitioners who promised they could heal them.

 

Things that make you go hmmmm ...

[Tsuga]

I agree with you statistically, but I am living proof there are exceptions. Since the very first McDonald's opened up in our town, I have eaten at one every day of my life, sometimes two or three times a day. (Almost 50 years of Mickey Ds) The convenience fits my lifestyle. Diet Coke fits my addiction.

 

I am now almost 60. I am not overweight. As a matter of fact, most people would kill for my figure. I have no chronic health problems and never had except a few skin cancers from all the burns I got as a child, the last time I checked my cholesterol, the total was only 92, in spite of my heinous diet. I do take a multi vitamin many days and drink some Metamucil about once a week to get fiber I need. But, yes, there are a few of us fast food indulging survivors.

 

DS35 was also raised on McDonald's and is still slim and trim without any health problems. Luckily, he has a great cooking wife now who keeps his McDonald's trips confined to breakfast.

 

Yeah, well my dad took heroin and other opiates and cocaine for 20 years and he is still more fit than my mom and a lot of men his age. They both smoked the whole time but of course as she had us she got off the hard stuff.

 

I eat 2,500 calories per day and have been underweight at that level of consumption and am finally at a healthy weight. I don't go on weight loss threads and point out that people out that maybe eating 2,500 calories, doing no more than one work out five times per week, and being 5'5" and sitting at a desk all day can leave you size 0.

 

The vast majority of people are sensitive to what they eat and they are sensitive not because they did something wrong but because it's adaptive.

 

I think that policies should be adopted not to give people like me freedom to parade around my superior metabolism, but to prevent the growth of a toxic food environment. We already have a toxic food environment so it will take some doing to get rid of it.

 

But we should, not because I don't believe you, but because I think policy should serve most people, to protect the vulnerable, and not for people like us who would probably be fine without it.

 

 

the last time I checked my cholesterol, the total was only 92,

 

If you can eat all that and your body has a gene that takes care of the crap, that's great--cholesterol is about balance, not totals, though. I'm sure your doctor would have said something had it been off balance.

 

I'm  happy you're in good health. So am I. I am extremely sad when I see a PE class full of children who cannot run across a gym without getting winded--even the skinny ones. It breaks my heart.

[Tanaqui]

Anyway I shared my findings, and if you don't agree then fine. I don't benefit either way, and knew that there would be skeptics ready to pounce.

 

If you have evidence, present it. If this is true, there's got to be SOME form of proof.

 

[Catwoman]

If you have evidence, present it. If this is true, there's got to be SOME form of proof.

I thought Jasperstone was just making conversation, not that she wanted to be pressured into researching and posting specific scientific findings to prove every word she said. it's not like she is posting the man's name and phone number and insisting that we all go to see him if we get sick.

 

We all post our opinions here without backing them up with facts. I'm not sure why Jasperstone can't do the same. I really think she was just trying to be helpful.

[Joanne]

True.  I think it also tender for me because I've had so many people blame me for my own illness.  It can be a catch-22 though because when I'm at my worst, I'm at the point where it is hardest to get healthy food for myself.  Sometimes when it is hard to stand up for even five minutes at a time, it's hard to chop veggies. 

 

 

I think this is a tender topic for folks because some of us have had children scared in the hospital. When you're worried about your little one being miserable, you might do things you know are not optimal. I wish I had been stronger, but I was in a  Whatever it Takes! place.

 

I do have a sick family member making some pretty bad choices, so I understand the frustrations of OP 100%

 

 

I understand this, and I understand the frustration with our supporting alternative poster. I sometimes get food/diet suggestions from very entrenched psychological places regarding my dd's juvenile idiopathic arthritis. My reactions range according to my personal mental space.

 

I still believe that JAWM has its place here in as a coping skill and I am not comfortable with deciding which are JAWM worthy and which don't get immunity because people have other opinions.

[Tanaqui]

We all post our opinions here without backing them up with facts. I'm not sure why Jasperstone can't do the same. I really think she was just trying to be helpful.

 

Maybe, but a lot of what she's said in this thread, like the comment about juice curing cancer, is potentially harmful. It's good to always have evidence to back up your claims before you spread them, so you don't accidentally do damage to others.

[Haiku]

 

I still believe that JAWM has its place here in as a coping skill and I am not comfortable with deciding which are JAWM worthy and which don't get immunity because people have other opinions.

 

"Boy, it sure did make me uncomfortable to see that this little girl in the hospital was given junk food instead of nourishing food. I wish people took the connection between nutrition and health more seriously! I would certainly do things differently were it my kid."

 

Yes.

 

"OMG, these people are completely ignorant and dumber than a bag of rocks! And even when they eat supposedly healthy food, I bet they chose the crap versions for that, too!"

 

No.

 

You can vent without being mean and calling names.

[Jasperstone]

Jasperstone, you sure know a lot of people cured of very serious illnesses with alternative medicine. I know none. Interesting.

Well, I do live near very alternative areas, plus shop at the local heath store, so you would have to take all that into account.

[Jasperstone]

Ummm . . . assuming that were true (it's not) wouldn't the logical advice be to mow very regularly, starting at a young age, as preventative medicine? Because that should keep the arteries clear.

And you * know* that for sure?

 

Yes, I can actually see what you wrote making sense. I thought of that already. ;-)

[Jasperstone]

Maybe, but a lot of what she's said in this thread, like the comment about juice curing cancer, is potentially harmful. It's good to always have evidence to back up your claims before you spread them, so you don't accidentally do damage to others.

I'm sure people reading this will do their own research, and not take one person's experience 20 years ago and run with it without further investigation. Give people more credit than that.

 

There's a lot of cured people online using alternative medicine. And it's up to everyone to work out what

sounds legitimate, or not.

 

There was a documentary on recently about a guy traveling around only drinking juice for a year. He turned his health around. He was also encouraging others to juice- maybe he should be charged for giving such dangerous advice.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think there is a whole lot of wrong information on both sides in this thread.

 

It is a fact that not all bodies are created equal. Not all humans have exactly the same biology. What is bad for one person is good for another and vice versa.

 

Even your average doctor isn't educated on every disorder or disease, which is why specialists exist.

[Jasperstone]

http://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Therapy-Results-Fifty-Advanced/dp/0961152621http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ann-cameron-cured-her-cancer-with-carrot-juice/

 

 

 

This is interesting, and shows the success some people can have. There are heaps online. Sure there would be some false, but lots sound legit.

 

 

Then there is Dr Gerson-

 

 

 

In 1958, based on thirty years of clinical experimentation, Dr. Max Gerson published this medical monograph. This is the most complete book on the Gerson Therapy. Dr. Gerson, who developed the Gerson Therapy, explains how the treatment reactivates the body's healing mechanisms in chronic degenerative diseases. The book incorporates extensive explanation of the theory with scientific research and the exact practice of the therapy, as well as a presentation of fifty documented case histories.

[kiana]

Interesting discussion of the statistics behind chemotherapy as a treatment for cancer, for another point of view: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chris-beat-cancer/