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I think this is very common until kids are about ten. Somewhere between eight and ten the "We don't do anything and it's fine" parents begin to notice that their kids are not progressing. Much of the time by twelve it either shifts or kids are enrolled in school.

 

Dh has many of the views that you have expressed, and I used to as well. Now, I am shifting further and further into not caring what others do with their kids. Even when I feel it is neglectful, I remember that much of my hands off attitude with our son Dh finds neglectful. I see it as picking battles and not pushing Ds. I see Ds as doing great (and he has tested four and five full grade levels ahead across the board so I have some backup), but some days school doesn't start till noon, if at all. Some days he just plays MineCraft all morning. He is definitely not as far ahead as he could be. He definitely has anxiety and perfectionism issues. Put Ds in a standard school environment and he would meltdown. I would look very neglectful. I do not care much about any of the standard status symbols. If Ds didn't care so much about the social aspects, I wouldn't go into them, because I could care less. Many people see that as neglectful.

 

The whole experience is a spectrum. When I stepped way back I had to see that passing my judgments was equivalent to how I was being judged. I feel that people judging me is wrongly forcing a societal expectation on a situation people do not know enough about. Now I see that I was doing the same thing.

 

Dh is a public high school English teacher. Every year he has five or more kids who read below a fifth grade level. Currently he is working with my mother (literacy specialist) to figure out how to help a 10th grader who reads at a second grade level. The boy is barely literate, but he can take apart the transmission of a car, put it back together and have it run better. The boy is intelligent and a really hard worker. He is highly employable. He could very successfully raise a family, participate fully in society, and be an asset to the community. Has his education been neglectful? That is a really hard question to answer. It is not the education my son is getting. It is not the education I received. However, I could never do half the stuff this boy does like it is nothing! He needs to get up to a fourth grade reading level to be successful and that is where Dh is going with him, but I have a hard time saying he is not educated. He is educated differently than I am.

 

I taught a boy who transferred into my class as a freshman from a highly religious family. They homeschooled for character and religious reasons. At fourteen this child was not literate and did not know his math facts. Mom was exhausted and you could tell she had tried everything she knew. He was dyslexic (we figured out very quickly). His homeschool education used to just make me so frustrated. "How could you possibly let this happen?! " was my only thought. The student now has a family. He is incredibly happy, works as a handyman, and is very successful as a citizen. I highly doubt he is anything we would call academic or even very knowledgable about many things. He is a fantastic father. He is a fulfilled man. He is intensely moral. The "character education" he received taught him how to be loyal, trustworthy, an extremely hard worker, persevere, be respectful, and strong. I would be thrilled if my son grew to be a man who was as emotionally and spiritually confident. I now see the homeschooling differently. They were teaching a totally different curriculum than I am. Maybe, for their very dyslexic but handy kid it was exactly what he needed. With a specialist, the boy learned to read fairly well in the next three years and graduated high school. He will never go to college, but he was an apprentice for a tradesman. I cannot say he was "mis-educated."

 

I taught a girl who was gorgeous, put together, and got all A's. She had read classics, been through very ritzy private K-8 schools, and had an elite pedigree. She was also a sociopath (and had the paperwork to prove it when the school forced the issue). She is now a really high end "escort" who does not get access to her daughter due to recreational drug use (like white drugs and pills) and her career choices. The daughter goes to high end schools (mom makes a PILE of money), wears all the clothes, and is very well taken care of/supported. Daughter also has dead eyes and is a budding sociopath. For all measures both of them would be said to be very well educated, but probably just needed someone to spend a little time being silly and loving them when they were 4 -10 and less time pumping them full of "education."

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It is a spectrum and the two posts above highlight extremes of that spectrum.

 

I think every child deserves to learn to read and to learn the basic arithmetic and mathematical concepts that will enable them at least to be an autodidact.

 

 

They want to learn but mom doesn't have time or the want to make time.

 

I view education as a right, not a privilege. This makes me sad. If she doesn't want to teach them at home, send them to school.

 

This goes beyond "hands off" because there are opportunities for kids to learn and explore--at public school, at least some--and she's denying them that.

 

The idea that homeschooling ANY child would be easy for anyone is ridiculous. I'm sure HSing a child with a learning disability is much harder, but how will she know her kids aren't smart if she hasn't started?

 

For the record, I'm equally in arms about crappy public schools. It's the fact that our society on so many levels is not investing in our kids that bothers me, not homeschooling.

 

Also, can I just say--am I the only one who only knows unschoolers who work really hard with the kids to provide them with an enriched environment? Maybe it's just my state but I honestly don't know anybody who just unschools by sitting on their butt.

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I do very little formal academics with my children during the primary school years. I am following the approach that worked well for myself and my siblings; my mom kept us home mostly without teaching formal academics then sent us to school at age 8 (she did make sure we could read when we started school). The lack of formal learning during those early years did not keep any of us from doing well in school, and in my opinion fostered creativity and curiosity with regard to learning.

 

While I have not put my children in school at age 8, I do introduce more formal learning at about that age. So far the system is working well.

 

I'm not ready to judge a family without more details; a relaxed approach to early education is entirely appropriate for many children, and a relaxed or unschooling approach for older children sometime works well too. I do think that lack of any education during a child's growing up years is a serious problem, but there is not enough information in the OP for me to assume that is an issue here.

 

 

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I will start off by saying in my state the hsing laws are so relaxed. With that comes the responsibility to follow through with schooling your child in SOME form though or things will have to change. I have relaxed a lot since we are accelerated because my ds can learn things that others his age (so I'm told) can not comprehend. We still expect my son (especially this year since he's legally suppose to be in school now) to learn things that require of him hard work. We review and do grade level stuff but we also want to stretch him. Teach hard work. I had someone tell me "well hsing is easy for you because your sons a genius." First of all he's never been tested and has put in the work to get where he's at. I've put in the work to help him get were he's at. We don't make excuses instead we make learning happen. We teach discipline and learning habits. This lady uses excuses every year to delay teaching her kids. It's getting to the point that she's truant if she delays any longer. Instead of giving herself a cushion for when the next baby arrives she uses excuses to delay beginning. I see great potential in her girls. They want to learn but mom doesn't have time or the want to make time. Her daughter can't use the excuse that she didn't go to school because her mom was pregnant too often. (No, I'm not against many children. I wanted many children.)

 

In our small community we had a different hs family put her four children in school this year and they are all very behind. Our public schools are very bad. They are on the most improved list this year but still not passing any categories. So for her kids to be (up to two grades) behind them is not helping public opinion. I'd love to say it shouldn't matter but the truth is it does. It affects us eventually and I'd hate to see it get to that point. It's not a secret that our ps wants our hs kids for the $ and test score boost. A few know this family is the exception but most see the value of exploiting this.

 

I ask how hsing went this week, expecting no details, to some families and it's common to get a response of "well we had no time to do anything this week so we didn't." When I inquire about what "anything" means they really do mean never cracked a book. They are not sad about it or worried. They didn't teach life skills like laundry or cooking. Nothing.

 

I needed to vent so I don't vent to the problem people. It's a very small town. Tell one tell all. I get delaying the start if the child needs it but this isn't that. I get using the real world to school littles by discussing your day. But there is no discussion. I get unschooling but this isn't that.

 

I wish they wouldn't compare results of my hs with theirs but instead compare the work we put into our education.

Since your oldest is 6 and you are doing school with your 4 yr old, I'm betting that if you met me IRL that you would have the same reaction as you have with your IRL homeschool families. I do not teach preschool. Period. I just don't. My dd will be turning 5 a couple of days before Christmas and her amt of daily school work is zero. Like Maize, I am also very low key during the primary grades. And, you know what, my kids are never behind. (As a matter of fact, I know that when I do start K with my youngest that she will be ahead. While I was reading to my 3rd grader today, she climbed up on my lap and told me I was on page 43 (which I was.) I know she would be probably on a 2nd grade level if I actually taught her. Doesn't mean I am going to start. I want her playing and using her imagination and exploring b/c that is what **I** value for preschool. My personal beliefs are that kids who play have better critical thinking skills than kids spending time doing academics. (hence, why I don't teach preschool.)

 

FWIW, I completely disagree that results are all about what you do. I large part of outcome is directly related to innate ability. I have had kids reading chpt books within a couple of months of learning to read, but I have also had kids that couldn't read well until late 4th/5th. I have had kids completely on grade level in math, but I have also had kids ready for algebra by age 10. It isn't about how they are being taught (that is controlled since I am their only teacher.) It is about who they are.

 

FWIW, if any homeschooler inquired what we did that day, I would probably give them a blank stare and say, "the usual." I certainly wouldn't give a detailed acct of what we did. That is a pass the bean dip type of question.

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"They didn't teach life skills like laundry or cooking."

 

Really? Does that mean nobody in the home did any laundry or cooking?

 

I'm not one to think chores are a substitute for academic lessons but as an experienced parent I know that laundry and cooking are taught daily when all the people are at home. It just happens unless mom stupidly locks her kids in their bedrooms while she does all the chores. But most humans don't do that. They interact with their families while doing basic household chores.

 

Also, if I were going to answer a fellow hs'er's nosy query about my homeschool yesterday, I would have briefly said that my 10yo didn't have school because I didn't have time. What I'd mean by that is we had no time for his planned curriculum, to sit together for a five hour chunk and work through all that. What I don't mean is that he sat like a little lump of potato on the couch watching Popeye cartoons. He did something that could be counted for every school subject except Latin, just amusing himself as is his wont. He had a very productive and creative day and learned lots. But he wasn't schooled yesterday.

 

My eldest is a national merit semifinalist and was accepted to all universities to which he applied, to their honors colleges, and awarded the Dean's scholarship for all, as well. He had lots of days (and entire weeks) in which he was not schooled but he never had a day in which he learned nothing. I'm usually judged to be an overachiever, not an underachiever, but I do not answer questions about my homeschool or my sons if I get even the slightest feeling that I'm under a microscope. I make non-committal noises about being busy. Which I am. I don't care if other homeschoolers are trying out their yardstick on me and think I'm coming up short. I know what I'm doing.

 

Your post is very terse and judgmental, OP, but your oldest child is barely compulsory school aged. You have so much to learn about parenting and homeschooling, still, so don't be distracted by other families too much. Don't spend so much time trying to ferret out everything a particular family is doing wrong, because that's creepy and it's not why you homeschool. Keep your eyes on your own work and let your child's education speak for itself. It will. If you do a good job on his academics and his character, he will shine like a bright star wherever he goes. He won't be dragging others' reputations along with him. I've BTDT and it's true.

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:iagree:

 

Try not to be so judgmental about other parents' educational choices---you don't have all the answers and you're not seeing the complete picture of what they are or aren't doing and why.  You haven't even seen the proof of your own pudding.  Your way isn't the way.

 

There are many things I would have done differently early on in my homeschool career if I had known then what I know now. 

 

 

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I am for delaying starting school till 6 or later!! Especially it your state allows it. I do it because my husband said start now or put them in daycare and get a job. My only problem is legally the older daughter could easily be found as truant. She is of age to legally have to be in school. My vent was simply why push the issue? If she's legal age I'm not saying sit for hours I'm saying color by number or count cereal! This mom is proud to not do anything. I get relaxed, time off, school didn't happen o well for some of the time but this is months and about to be a year late. Don't hurt my freedom to homeschool because your lazy. We live in a small town where the school is currently making inquires about homeschoolers because of the other family that didn't school their children and the school got stuck with them right before state test time this year.

 

I don't think results will happen if there is no effort. We don't have to show results just effort in this state. I don't want that to change. I'm not saying my way I'm saying do it the states way.

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How old is the child you are concerned about? What legal requirements does your state place on homeschoolers?

 

In my current state, how my children are educated at home is very much on my own shoulders; I comply with homeschooling laws by basically filing an affidavit that exempts them from school. My children are not truant not because of what we are doing and learning in our homeschool, they are not truant because they are exempted.

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Last year we spent 1st grade Roadschooling across the U.S. I'm sure several people looking at my facebook page thought I was negligent that we were spending weeks at a time skiing, hiking, or at Disneyworld. This year my son is at a high performing gifted magnet school in a major city working two grades ahead. Unless I intimately know the dynamics inside a family and think it's abusive, I don't judge. I don't presume to know what's best on how to educate anyone's kid but my own.

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This person would consider me her best friend. I know ALOT about her. There is a difference in not educating and saying your not educating to pass the bean dip. I wanted the dip not the truth in this case.

 

My husband just said the reason why I feel bad, irritated, about this is because she started homeschooling because of me. It was the caring mom thing to do, she thought. He bets she'll quit soon.

 

I'm going to drop this because I didn't want to leak too much information. I just wanted to vent.

 

Ets I posted here specifically because I wanted understanding that I didn't expect the same results for effort. I figured my son's accomplishments would be held against me on other boards.

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I live in a totally hands-off province. Like TOTALLY hand-off. We don't report to anyone. Our obligation is to follow an 'educational program' - how we define it is up to us.

Instead of venting about some family, why not vent about your state laws, & more importantly get together a group of people & have those laws changed??

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In my state formal academics are not required until age 8.

 

In general, I would say worry about your own homeschool.  Surround yourself with people who share your values. It's a waste of energy to spend time on things you don't have much control over. As any Classical Education Homeschooler knows, not every homeschooler has the same goals and approach. That will be true IRL and even here at TWTM boards.

I have no problem turning in someone who is breaking the law with their homeschool, but to know if someone is or not requires very intimate knowledge. I've never known another homeschooler that well.  If you truly know that's happening, then you need to do your homework and report it to the appropriate government agency.  People who are neglecting their children educationally will end up bringing regulation down on all of us.  So, be prepared for that possibility of you do turn them in or if you don't.  It has the potential to screw over homeschoolers either way. The media loves crazy, neglectful, abusive homeschooler stories and people who do a bad job seem to be good at attracting attention and sticking in the memories of people who don't homeschool.  That's how the media and human nature work.  Typical homeschoolers are boring because they make their kids do academics in some way at some time.  That doesn't get the kind of attention media outlets want.  Then anti-homeschooling politicians get more fuel for they're nanny state mindsets and then presume tell everyone what we need to be doing and how, while pointing to people who weren't really doing much.

 

Yes, there are people who are too lax in their homeschooling.  My homeschooled daughters have been getting ear fulls of complaints from several friends whose parents  were "relaxed" homeschoolers. They think they were not nearly prepared enough for college and it has limited their opportunities.  My girls have thanked us for the academic rigor because they think community college is reeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyyy easy and they've each had a professor (Chemistry and Art History) tell them they were the best educated freshmen they'd ever met. So, do what you're going to do and shrug your shoulders at everyone else.

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I do understand where you are coming from OP. My kids go to school but I live in a smallish area too. The principal at the school my kids attend is openly and loudly against homeschooling simply because he has had to pick up the pieces a few times when homeschoolers have not taught their kids basic numeracy and literacy then dumped them back in school at 10 or 11. Since here once your child has started school you need the principals good will to remove the child to homeschool principals who are very anti can make things difficult.

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