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Rapid naming and the King-Devick software, anybody know about this?


PeterPan
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http://www.schoolmoves.com/can-ping-pong-help-children-learn-read/

 

This link has a click on some new research about rapid naming and getting reading scores to bump using digits in rapid naming.  

 

http://kingdevicktest.com/for-reading/

 

This link has the info of the study and shows you 4 images of the way they make their digits for the tracking and rapid naming process.  There's $100 software and their results imply the push of the software gets better results than if students read at their own pace.  What I think is interesting is how irregular the spacing is on the numbers in each line.  Not predictable, just like words vary in length.

 

http://www.schoolmoves.com/store/power-up/  This link shows some of the S'cool Moves rapid naming cards.  They call them Transitions Tune-Ups I think.  You see a colored dots card.  I made some like that and we've been doing them.  After reading these articles, I'm getting the sense that we should be moving on to numbers, letters.  S'cool moves has their charts sort of multiple purpose, where you could read them by color or symbol or both.  Wouldn't be hard to make our own.  Then the King-Devick style might be the next logical follow-up.

 

https://www.nmu.edu/education/sites/DrupalEducation/files/UserFiles/Larsen_Brian_MP.pdf  This guy's master's thesis digs on on rapid naming with letters, shapes, numbers, colors.  His research found better RAN/RAS definitely corresponds to better reading and that something as simple as the dots/colors RAN was predictive.  

 

So I definitely think working on this is worthwhile.  I'm just trying to figure out a logical progression.  The S'cool Moves people seem to have an interesting progression.  At that first link they have their "ping pong" reading cards available as a free download.  There you're tracking and rapid naming words.  It made me wonder if reading words down a column or with flashcards for fluency misses the point, that they'd be best done in some kind of tracking pattern, left to right...

 

 

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If you google:  children of the code zvia breznitz, she talks about this.  But from what I remember (I read all these interviews a while back) she got people to activate faster by using words. 

 

Times I have seen this idea used:  it seems like Seeing Stars is doing this some, asking kids to identify flashcards quickly.  Also, for fluency practice with repeated reading, they are asking kids to read more quickly each time.  There are programs where they start reading with a slower recording, and move up to a faster and faster recording. 

 

I think this is a real thing -- but I (tend to think) it could be done with a lot of fluency practices, not necessarily needing to be done with numbers. 

 

I am like -- if we are doing reading, why would I want to go and do digit spans?  Doesn't make sense to me (this is -- my first instinct, I could be convinced).  But -- this is a thing, it is often under fluency.  I did a lot of things to work on fluency with my son.  At a certain point -- you are kind-of pushing them to go faster.

 

But I can also see -- it might be nice to be able to get this improved with numbers or colors earlier on, and then be able to apply that to reading.  It does make sense. 

 

I was later on in the process before I started thinking of things like this, though. 

 

The RAN/RAS thing is known -- even on Dibels (a screening used in our school district) the purpose of a K screening is to see how quickly kids can name the letters of the alphabet.  People say it is not fair -- kids only have 3 seconds (or whatever) to name each letter, they are counted off for less, even if they do know the letters.  But it is still considered a risk factor b/c of the RAN/RAS thing.  It can be screening alphabet recognition at the same time, I guess, but slow but accurate is considered a risk factor -- this is why.  (My understanding.)  Edit:  my son is one who still scored low on this even after he did know all his letters, and I did NOT think it was fair, lol.  But this was my understanding when I looked into it.  Supposed to be a separate risk factor besides phonemic awareness. 

 

Though I don't remember seeing it mentioned in Overcoming Dyslexia, my favorite book (/wink).

 

Also -- I don't think that flashcards/columns miss the point.  It is working at the letter or word level then.  You do not have to do everything at once.  When I was looking into fluency -- there are programs where you start with words, then phrases, then sentences, then paragraphs, then short passages. 

 

If you are starting with words, flashcards make sense.  Then you can add phrases on flashcards (if you choose).

 

But I think -- if it works to work on left-to-right tracking and speed at the same time, that is great for that child.

 

If you have a need to work on speed separately from left-to-right tracking --- my opinion is, it is probably beneficial to many children to work on speed first and then add in left-to-right tracking.  It is a least-to-most prompt hierarchy thing (starting easier or simplified, and going to more complex).  So -- it just seems like it would make sense. 

 

Plus if recognizing a word is slow ---- imo and ime ------ it is appropriate to work on speeding up words, and then move from there to sentences.  I never did phrases, I thought they seemed dumb.  But I can see how it would make sense to do them, too. But I think the speed drills my son did were blocks with words, and he did read them left-to-right.  He hated flashcards, and the program we used seemed like they did have kids read left-to-right across rows.  I do not know if that was a conscious choice to help left-to-right tracking, or not.  Maybe it was.  I liked that there was a lot of space around the words, it made it easier for him.  This was Abecedarian speed drills to go with Level B.  We did more than that, but that format worked well and we used that structure.  I think, anyway.  Edit -- maybe changing my mind, maybe left-to-right does make more sense.  But -- you are just kind-of rushing them or saying it with them more quickly -- that is how you can get them to go faster, if you are pushing a little.  With flashcards, you can show them and put them down more quickly -- and that seems cool to me.  I did not do it -- my son hated flashcards.  But for something that was not an option -- it appealed to me.  But there are other ways to rush them a little, if they are not going faster on their own.  Reading together and just going a little faster is the main way I did, I think.  That is kind-of a fluency thing in general -- read together and speed up a little, do repeated readings so that they can get a little faster each time, etc.  But if you do repeated reading without the child just speeding up (or trying to get a faster time ---- which has drawbacks and I have reservations about, I agree with criticisms that it can encourage kids to just rush through reading and not care about meaning, or that this is possible for some kids) -- then I think it can seem like -- the next step is to kind-of push them by reading with them faster, or having them read with an audio tape recorded at increasing speeds. 

 

But I can also see why repeated readings of poems or dramatic readings, could also be working on this skill.  I think it makes sense that however you get used to reading more quickly, you are getting used to reading more quickly.  Whether it is familiarity or more of a drill, it is the same thing (I think?).  But some kids can't start at the poem/speech level, they are not fluent enough.  Then that is where I think you have to start at words.  It seems like you could start at the highest level that would make sense, if there was no need to drill individual words, but a need to read a passage more quickly. Imo -- my son did have to work at the word level.  He could not have skipped it.  But I know plenty of kids can -- so many fluency materials are for kids who do not have a need at the word level, but do have a need at the paragraph or short passage level.

 

 

 

Thanks for the new links ---- they look very cool :)

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http://www.childrenofthecode.org/interviews/wolf.htm  This interview mentions word retrieval of different *meanings* of words being an issue with fluency and comprehension.  

 

http://www.spellingcity.com/multiple-meaning-words.html  This site has grade leveled lists of multiple meanings words.  The interview suggested putting them onto cards with pictures.  I suppose you could play matching or old maid type games with them.  We could make them, but maybe a product like this already exists?  The interviewed person's curriculum (Rave-O) doesn't seem to sell them separately.

 

Ok, I'm looking on Super Duper and Linguisystems.  Looks like they sell some things.  I'm trying to see what is most comprehensive.  I'm thinking maybe going with pretty decks is not the way to go.  He understands the concept, but the interview is saying to get the *retrieval* fast to improve fluency and comprehension. Maybe just something we make ourselves with the Spelling City lists?

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I never noticed those lists on Spelling City!  Cool!  

 

To be honest -- I don't think my older son has a problem with retrieving different word meanings.  I have never felt like he needed to focus on it.  His vocabulary and comprehension are good (even really good).  I would not necessarily assume that this will be a need for your son.  I think it is one where it is different for different kids, not universal.  I think it would be good for vocabulary development anyway, but I might file it away as something you might need to do, rather than plan on needing to do it.  Unless you are already seeing that it is needed -- then go for it ;)

 

I also wonder, how you can tell he isn't thinking about how to answer?  I think my son understands words fine, and has no problem getting the right meaning.  But if you ask him a question -- he might not answer in a way that made you think he had quick retrieval.  But I think his retrieval is fine, I think it is something else that is harder for him.  

 

I do think, if he answered by pointing at a picture, he could do that very fast.  (This is how we do things for my younger son to show he has receptive understanding, without getting that confused with expressive ability.)  

 

Just thinking out loud.  But really -- I think this might not turn out to be something you need, or maybe you do.  Plus when I saw the Rave-O video, they were doing this is a discussion format, with having kids orally/cooperatively come up with different meanings for a word.  (In the sample it was "bat.")  I did not see them drilling it -- maybe you would still want to drill it, but it could be something where you talk about it and come up with things.  And this makes the "web of meaning" around the word --- meanings around a word.  I do not know.  I tend to like drilling more for a one-to-one correspondance -- to memorize.  I don't know if it would build up the web of meaning the same way.  (Did you happen to watch a video where she talks about building "webs of meaning?"  I liked it, I think it was on the Rave-O sight -- that was the main good part I thought..... it ended up not seeming like something I needed to focus on, though, it seems my son can build those webs himself.)  

 

(The picture was like a brainstorming picture -- the word in the middle, and different meanings written around the word.)

 

A lot of people do not even need to work on the speed drills (or whatever).  They just speed up on their own.  I think it also just depends on the kid.  

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OhE, the comment you made about reading down in columns resonated with me.  Barton has fluency drills starting, I think, with Level 2.  They aren't required and I honestly didn't pay any attention to them until DS started stumbling in Level 3.  At that point I started doing the fluency drills and found that reading across instead of down the columns (the student is allowed to do either) improved his reading in the stories, too.  He didn't always want to do it that way, but after a while of trying both I started pushing the row reading instead of column reading since it did seem to help with reading in general.  And the fluency drills helped me see where there were some specific issues that needed addressing that were not as obvious when doing the lessons.  DD never needed them, though.  Not sure what the difference is between them since DS has a more advanced vocabulary and learns the rules so much faster.

 

And I agree with Lecka, and Barton says this, too.  Not every kid is going to need fluency drills.  DD just doesn't.  DS does.

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Ds has had some oddities with words for years.  He has this really advanced vocabulary, but word components, words being the same with different meanings, homophones, etc. have been crunchy.  I tried a couple of the multiple meaning words on him today and he found them, so maybe this is something that is shifting?  I'm still waiting, WAITING, for the write-up from the psych.  Until then I don't have those baseline numbers for word retrieval, etc.  I'm very concerned about these things, because, although dd's CTOPP score and RAN/RAS were adequate, her word retrieval is horrible.  I just got a book through the library, so maybe it will have some helps, sigh.  It's making spanish VERY hard.  

 

So that's why I seem to have a fire in my butt on this, because I KNOW there are these little details like this (rapid naming, retrieval, etc.) that can totally tank all the rest of our work if we don't address them too.  It's not like we get to pick one thing, work on that, and it all works.  ALL the components have to be there.  But you're right, without the baseline numbers in-hand, I don't know for certain what he needs.  I know I've watched him present with oddities for a couple years now, but I had not made the connection that weaknesses with how you process language would be made WORSE by poor word retrieval and sort of compound the effect when reading.  That's what hadn't gelled in my mind till now.

 

The dots take such a small amount of time each day and cost nothing.  He's definitely faster than he was.  It's intriguing to watch his drop-off and inability to attempt to keep time with the metronome while saying them.  To me it shows what he's doing is effortful.  And since it is and since he seems to be improving with small amounts of consistent work (and since I can make more posters with more things to read like letters, digits, colors, whatever for free), I'm definitely inclined to keep going!  :)

 

And yes Onestep, it was your story I was remembering when I saw the rapid naming ping pong charts!!!  I was thinking how simple it would be to put the fluency words from Barton into that form (my B2 hasn't come yet, so I haven't seen the lists) and then practice them that way, rather than vertically.  Simple thing to double the benefit.  And I'm fascinated that you actually saw a benefit in carryover/fluency by doing that!  So that means it might actually be BETTER that way.  That's fascinating!

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And yes Onestep, it was your story I was remembering when I saw the rapid naming ping pong charts!!!  I was thinking how simple it would be to put the fluency words from Barton into that form (my B2 hasn't come yet, so I haven't seen the lists) and then practice them that way, rather than vertically.  Simple thing to double the benefit.  And I'm fascinated that you actually saw a benefit in carryover/fluency by doing that!  So that means it might actually be BETTER that way.  That's fascinating!

It was interesting to me that DS really, really wanted to read the lists vertically, but he stumbled a lot doing it that way.  And it didn't seem to help with the reading of the passages that much.  When he read across, horizontally, he improved faster and it DID seem to help with reading passage fluency.  So why did he still want to read vertically?  I just don't know.  

 

I am very interested to hear how you approach this next phase and what you choose to incorporate from all the research you are doing...

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OneStep, I'm just going to make some charts like the links on those pages.  I'm not terribly original, lol.  It's not like I know what I'm doing.  I'm just trying things that make sense that they should work.  We've been doing colored dots daily for 3 weeks now, so I think we'll shake things up and make some new charts for next week.  I'm more sifting out in my mind what each of those charts at S'cool Moves is trying to do and which one would be a good next step and why.  Maybe the main S'cool Moves book explains the posters?  Hmm, hadn't thought about that!  The more I think about them, the more interesting they are to me.  I'm trying to figure out what each one is targeting.  I just can't go paying $55 every time for one of these cool ideas.  I have to do it the poor woman's way, figuring it out and making something, lol.  That study did numbers but the research says colors, numbers, letter names, shape names, anything will work. So then there's the curiosity of the difficulty progression.  You have evenly spaced and then chunked (4-5 digits per cell in columns) and then irregularly spaced numbers (really pushes the tracking?) and charts that mix color and shape/letter, possibly meaning they're being read together or both ways for distraction?  It seems to me with the irregularly spaced charts you're pushing the actual tracking the hardest, but that's the one with the actual data for results.  It might be all the S'cool Moves posters are approximately the same level of difficulty and not a progression at all, where the K/D pages are definitely a progression of difficulty, which would make them therapeutic.

 

I'm pathetic trying to figure this out, lol.

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That's the nice way of putting it, lol.  Actually I'm just ANGRY.  I'm angry that I have a house full of books (literally, 7000!!!) that ds might never be able to read comfortably and happily.  I'm angry that the status quo and accepted outcome, per the Eides, is to be a slow reader no matter WHAT you do.  That makes me angry, so I'm trying to figure out something to DO about it.  It doesn't seem fair to steal his birthright to read.  It doesn't seem fair that he should miss out on pleasures dd had at the same age.

 

And you know it may just turn out that nothing can change and I have an acceptance problem.  I'm saying for now, that's where I'm at.  All that CAN be done, WILL be done, because I don't think it's fair to him to accept the status quo and not try.

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DON'T assume that he will never be able to read efficiently!  You don't know that.  LOTS of dyslexics end up reading pretty darn well.  DD is certainly reading FAR more than she EVER could before.  And so what if the reading speed might not be lightning fast? 

 

And goodness, what's wrong with Audio books?  DS LOVES audio books.  He gets just as much pleasure out of audio books and Immersion Reading as I ever did reading print books.

 

I get what you are saying, though.  I, too, wish my kids were reading voraciously as I did at their ages.  I have many, many, many books I would love them to read.  Many are never going to be available as an audio book.  But they can still enjoy them if I read those books to them.  

 

OhE, because we haven't written our kids off, because we are working to help them on a daily basis, they WILL read.  I have seen the changes in my own kids and they started WAAAAAY later than yours.  Your son is young.  Don't let what the Eides said freak you out.  He will read.  I have faith.

 

Best wishes.

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  I'm angry that I have a house full of books (literally, 7000!!!) that ds might never be able to read comfortably and happily.  I'm angry that the status quo and accepted outcome, per the Eides, is to be a slow reader no matter WHAT you do.

I am right there with ya!

 

I haven't had time to read all the links - but the word thing is why I went to reading across the columns with DB power pages.  I had these PACE pages that were all about columns (inside then outside) but were all numbers and I just thought... why am I wasting time doing all these excercises with numbers when I want her to be able to read words.  I get that numbers are easier but heck,  I  can start with easy words instead (of course she was much older than your DS and much further along in reading - if I decide to do this with younger DD I'd be all about numbers/colors at this point). 

 

I think the point of the jumping columns is that you have to keep track of where you are - which line, which column - but in an easier way than reading all the way across a line full of words.    I have been thinking I need to make a new set with smaller words and more columns (only 4 on DB pages).    DD did a lot of this type of  page when doing VT but it was columns read across the page - the PACE thing is to read the inside columns first, then the next pair, then the next until you get to outermost columns (3 2 1 1 2 3) -- the reading across made no difference to DD but the jumping columns has.

 

Tracking wise this is the only thing that has helped - fluency wise (speed) VT helped as well. 

 

I had more thoughts as I was reading but really need to have the time to look at links and re-read before I post them...

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Laughing, this is wild!!  I remember you mentioning those columns, but I hadn't made the connection!!  Ding, ding!!!  So is DB Dancing Bears?  And you're typing their fluency words into columns and have her read them across 3,2,1,1,2,3?  That's wild.  It seems like that would be really HARD, wouldn't it?

 

But you see how wild this is?  Here you have a therapy approach that has been around for maybe 10 or 15 years with these innovative techniques, but the university researcher picks the low-hanging fruit, the simplest thing, tests it and draws conclusions.  That's why I just don't put a lot of stock in these studies, because I see the therapists in the field being very innovative.

 

Wouldn't reading columns like that make them dizzy or teach them to backtrack or something?

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The Eides do not pushy the heavy reading remediation.  It is not their thing (their primary focus).  They seem much more focused on older children where for a variety of reasons it does not make sense to make a hardcore push for remediation. 

 

And then I think -- there are some kids where the best remediation does not bring the desired results.

 

But -- you have just completed Barton Level 1 --- this is a very good sign.  Your son is retaining and making progress.  These are very good signs. 

 

My older son does read well now.  He really does.  I doubt it is at a level commensurate with his IQ -- he is seeming a lot smarter this year, for some reason. 

 

But, he is absolutely a good reader. 

 

And -- he did not start off at a good place, but does not sound so different from your son, they sound similar a lot.  He is in 4th grade now and I started really working with him the summer after K (pretty intensively for about two years, then still working with him but with much less intensity).

 

Anyway -- I think he is in a solid place for his age.  I say this -- based on his recent progress in blending and understanding sounds, and completing Barton.  I think he still is going to need a lot of work, but when he is mastering skills -- that is a sign he will keep mastering the next set of skills in the future.  It is really a thing people look at, to predict some future progress.  By this -- you expect a lot of hard work, but also real learning and success.   

 

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Lecka, you're right we are having those little hopeful signs.  He's actually asking me to show him how to sound out words in his life!  Amazing!  This is the child who, in spite of being very bright, had never even ATTEMPTED to interact with the text in his life.  He always had us read him buttons, read him the screen on the ipad or the Wii.  You're constantly surrounded by text, so it's neat to see him attempting to figure it out.  Today power, reset, and eject were the words of the day.  Fun!

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As far as the DB - I just used their power pages straight as they are (I cut off the check marks so it doesn't 'look' like DB) - it is only 4 columns so we do inside then outside - and have worked through all the pages from easier to now we are finishing up the end of DB C.   Really that is why I used the DB - so that I could start with words that would be 'easy' for her.

 

I have had her do it to a metronome too - but mostly we just do it to a decent regular pace now - that was mostly to get her to not stop and think about any of the words but just to read it.  Every now and then I slip the metronome in to make sure she is keeping to as fast a rhythm as I think she is. 

 

Anyway - now that I am going to make new smaller word pages, I will start with 6 columns and work up.

 

ETA: the original PACE pages started with 2 columns and worked up to more than 8 columns I believe - I'll have to dig them out again - but with numbers not words

 

 

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ok, i still haven't managed more than the 1st link but I want to add these comments:

 

- the ping pong - the idea there is very similar to the idea of jumping columns - at an inbetween level.  I think you could do that on any column based sheet of words.  As Lecka said, Abecedarian has those too (and I used DB of course).  The Abecedarian would be better for a begining reader IMO.  There are even a bunch of them available for free on the site.   The Abecedarian style is to have a set of words and repeat them throughout the page.  This didn't work for my DD - she would do fine reading a page and yet there seemed to be no transfer to regular reading.   I think for her - she needs to have different words, not a set of similar words.  She can suss out what's needed for that page - and not internalize it for later.  

 

Along those same lines, repeated reading did nothing for her.  Yeah, she sped up on that reading. But no transfer.  I have seen studies showing the same as well (of course I don't know where they are now to link them :eye roll: - I keep telling myself I need to track these things better).  Also I did the phrase flash cards - worthless for DD.  The only flash cards that I feel did anything at all was I made my own set of very similar words - words she would mistake for each other - and flash a pair of words and then say - same or different? I think though that was more of a visual processing thing not a reading or recall thing. 

 

DD also never has particularly struggled with word meanings - she is not good at sussing out meaning from reading but otherwise normal (I think that is really that she still spends too much brain power on reading - none left over for figuring out new words).  ETA: also in DD's private speech test - she did fine on the rapid naming portion - it was not words though.

 

The metronome definitely adds another level of hardness - so hard (as I've detailed in other posts) that I had to start out having DD bounce on a trampoline and count by 1's (and she would mess up to begin with! )   But at DD's VT office - metronome was clearly meant to just add a little hardness - so you have to judge your DS there.  I actually really want to have DD do the columns we are doing to a faster metronome - but I decided getting through the harder sheets was more important to me especially since she is now able to maintain a decent steady beat on her own.   But that is a judgement call - the PACE sheets for example want you to do each sheet plain, w/metronome, & to every other beat of metronome before moving to next sheet (and no mistakes! I have long before given up on the no mistakes thing - which could be a huge mistake on my part, pun intended, but that is just asking for major frustration and no improvement from my experience with DD)

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In regard to reading fluency and speed, their is one simple thing that can improve this?

Which is to extend Peripheral vision.

Where you might test your peripheral vision?

 

Look at the posts above, and then focus on any word in a line.

Without moving your eyes, try and see how many words you can recognize each side of that word, without moving your eyes?

Though a more precise measure, is to see how many letters you can recognize, each side of a centrepoint?

 

Where the importance of this, is that the width of your letter/word recognition, will effect the number of movements that your eyes have to make, as they move across a line.

So that the speed of reading, will be effected by the less or more movements.

But also importantly, this can be extended, by simply practicing recognizing more letters each side. One by one.

 

Though perhaps we could discuss reading?

Where I wonder how many people are aware of different ways that they can read?

So that they choose the way to read, to suit what they are reading?

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Ooh I'm going to have to try out the focus on 1 words things with DD

ETA - there is an app I have where you can control the number of words on each line - it even has a 'diamond' shape one where it starts with one word and goes to a line with X (changeable) number of words.  It hasn't really helped DD - but I certainly didn't have her focusing in on the middle of the line either.   The app also has a jump from side to side version - but it has no 'between' words that you have to jump over.

 

One other thing on the jumping columns - my first VT suggested  that DD read the 1st and last words on each line on a page before reading the page.  I never actually had DD do this though because DD rebelled against doing it and I didn't think it was very important ( :scared: the irony to think this simple suggestion could have resolved an ongoing issue - or of course the rebellion could have been that it was too big a jump for her but that was too early in my journey for me to be coming up with alternate ways to implement a suggestion)

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  • 6 months later...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4rcl6f0uo70esmv/AAAaGAHw3_YTMEQZSw_WI-t_a?dl=0

 

Nike.  Just do it.  

 

Well I guess I could get more sophisticated than that, lol. We slowly built up other skills like the Focus Moves and clapping with the metronome so we could merge them.  I used the metronome to push him a bit on the rapid naming.  We don't want to make the steps too big or too complex by combining, but if we've taught those skills separately and it's just a little step to bring them together, then that can be good too.  I try to put things together like that, like what would happen if we did RAN/RAS *and* did a metronome at the same time or clapping at the same time or a distraction in the background at the same time or...  kwim?

 

Have fun.  It's a happy stage, happy activity.  I put them in page protectors in a notebook.  He still asks for them.  Actually, I think he asks for them because I gave him a cover page for stickers and give him a sticker each time he did a session of OT-type activities with me.   :)

 

PS.  Building that phonemic awareness, with LIPS or another program, is more important.  The RAN/RAS stuff is worth doing, but I would prioritize the phonemic awareness higher.

 

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PS. Building that phonemic awareness, with LIPS or another program, is more important. The RAN/RAS stuff is worth doing, but I would prioritize the phonemic awareness higher.

I agree since it'll help both with her articulation and her reading. But I do want to incorporate some rapid naming work.

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PS. Building that phonemic awareness, with LIPS or another program, is more important. The RAN/RAS stuff is worth doing, but I would prioritize the phonemic awareness higher.

I agree since it'll help both with her articulation and her reading. But I do want to incorporate some rapid naming work.

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You might ask your ABA provider about "fluency" and "latency" and what that looks like for your daughter. 

 

My son has "fluency" goals that are just about responding faster.  A "long latency" means he is taking a long-ish time to respond.

 

Maybe he/she will turn out to have some idea or knowledge about it. 

 

For my son -- this is where he may just practice with flashcards (or similar) until he can respond more quickly with practice.  I am not sure if it is any more complicated than that for him. 

 

I also have read about a thing (wrt identifying young children at-risk for reading difficulty) where they did practice just identifying colors and common object silhouettes (like a black, colored-in outline of a house, a cow, a moon) and practiced with just saying the names of the items.  Some kids improved with this practice, some kids did not.  It was one of those -- "can we get good results with some kids with a really simple, short intervention?" studies, and was saying for some kids they could get good results that way. 

 

I have also read about a study where they kind-of "flash" things at kids, for a shorter and shorter amount of time, progressively shorter, to kind-of train them to recognize things more quickly.  I don't know if this would lead to a faster verbal response, but it is supposed to lead to a faster process of recognition.  This was wrt reading. 

 

http://www.childrenofthecode.org/interviews/wolf.htm  I am linking to an interview with Maryanne Wolf.  She is a reading researcher who I have seen talking about the RAN/RAS deficit. 

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With what Lecka is saying, you could ponder whether they're targeting visual processing speed (see and process at faster and faster rates) or rapid naming (see and say at faster and faster rates).  Then you could ponder for rapid naming what the effect is when it's naming individual items on flashcards and what happens when you're tracking items across a page.  Different effects and things you're trying to emphasize.  

 

When I use a page of dots, I can see how he's tracking, build up confidence to read across a line, reinforce good eye movements, get him used to going from line to line without losing his place, integrate other goals (metronome, motions), etc.  Just interesting subtle differences.  I could imagine a situation where starting with single items is the appropriate next step for a child.  Ds needed some support to be able to tackle a line of dots.  I printed the pages as a rectangle, so we could turn the page and start with the narrower side, kwim?  

 

You could start with single flashcards, if that's a good next step for your child, then divide the pile in half and go to *2* cards across.  Then divide into 3 piles and do 3 cards across.  Then, when you've built up, recreate that progression on dot pages.  It's not hard to make those dot pages, mercy.  It was just color filled shapes on my mac pages program.  I'm assuming a pc has something similar. Make what fits your dc.

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Just an aside -- my son was doing Reading Mastery last year (it is on hiatus but will probably be back), and for part of it, they have a thing where they have picture of children doing different arm motions, going left to right, with circles underneath each picture.  

 

It is set up like their "learning to blend" procedure, where the teacher runs his/her hand along the line underneath with the circles, and the child says the letter sound as the teacher's hand passes underneath the letter.  

 

Well -- my son got very good at doing the motor imitations.  Very, very good.  He has gotten really good at motor imitation.  He got a lot of compliments from the OT at his last IEP meeting.  

 

But he is a lot slower with saying the letter sounds when he is cued to say them.  When he went on the hiatus he had about 4 letter sounds he did, but he was losing accuracy with them when a 5th was added, and so it went on hiatus.  (He continued to have exposure in various other ways and I think he will do better when/if he goes back to it.)  

 

My older son was similar in a way, it took him a long time to quit having to think about what sounds the letters made.  He did also score low on the "naming the letters of the alphabet" section of the Dibels screening even after he had learned his letters.  My older son is a good reader now, though.  

 

But I have never really done anything about it, iykwim.  But when we had his neuropsych testing (very recently) he scored very average in rapid naming, I think it was one of the ones where he was within a few points of 100.  So I don't really know what is going on with that.  I believe he has improved!  But I don't really know.  I did a lot of fluency activities with his reading.  But who knows.  He did some OT stuff that may have helped (as he used to also have a delay with "crossing the midline" and it is improved since doing OT in 3rd grade).  It is hard to know what helped, and I just have the sense he is better now, more than anything else.  

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Rapid Naming is a test of the speed of the connection between the Visual and Auditory Cortexes.

Where research published about 2 years ago, showed that slow RN test speeds, equally effected all naming.

So that with this research, what they looked at?

Was whether practicing general naming, would carry over into increased RN speeds?

What this simply involved, was using photographs with lots of familiar objects in them.

Objects were pointed at, which the children had to name.

This was done for about 5 minutes a day, with a parent.

So that the parent was very aware of how quickly they could name objects in the photos.

Also observe whether their naming speed was increasing?

Which continued over 2 to 3 weeks.

Where most parents observed a significant increase in their naming speed, over this time.

 

Then they were given the Rapid Naming Test, and found that this increase had carried over to Letters and Numbers.

Also to reading.

Where the conclusion was, that simply practicing naming objects in photos?

Developed a stronger and faster connection between the Visual and Auditory Cortexes.

That had in turn, increased the Rapid Naming speed.

 

Where magazines and catalogues were mostly used, as they have lots of photos.

So perhaps you could try this?

Where you will be able to observe her current speed, and gauge whether it is increasing?

Then if it carries over to naming letters and numbers?

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