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My reluctant, anxious, perfectionist, excellent writer


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I've posted a bit about her before, but this question is a little different (I think!). My DD12 is an excellent writer. I happened across a piece of writing she did for an essay contest (never finished, of course), and it was so lovely it brought tears to my eyes. She doesn't need Killgallon or IEW dress-ups or anything like that. She needs to be able to just get words on a page and then practice improving the words and organizing the thoughts so they make sense. I don't know how to help her do that without forcing her to do it, and when I force, it kills her joy in writing. But we've reached a point (7th grade) where she needs to be able to put some thoughts down on paper, and she can't bring herself to do it. 

 

She set herself a NaNoWriMo goal of 13,000 words this month, and she's written less than a thousand. She's disappointed in herself, but it has been easier to spend her free time watching Supernatural than to push past her anxiety and perfectionism by just sitting down and writing. We've been working our way through WWS1 for awhile now (two years!), and we're on lesson 16. She can do days 1-3 fairly easily, but when that day 4 assignment comes up, it takes her a week to get it done, and if I insist on it sooner, we have tears. We faithfully completed levels 1-3 of WWE, but when asked to sit down and write a summary of the couple of pages she's read in her history book, she freezes and can't focus on it and never gets it done. 

 

I didn't press hard on this skill when she was young because the WTM method of writing across the curriculum made her dread doing other subjects (she went from loving SOTW to loathing it). Instead we did WWE and I thought the rest would come in time. It hasn't. 

 

How would you approach writing with this anxious, reluctant writer? We need to drop WWS--it's too much pressure. I'm considering dialing back to something very simple, like Jump In, but I'm not sure if that will get us where we need to go. I re-listened to SWB's middle school writing lecture, but I'm not sure that's the right approach at the moment either. I feel like this kid needs more handholding and direct prompting right now than that method will give her. I feel like she needs to build her confidence before I can set her loose on more open-ended things. 

 

WWYD? How do you get a kid like this comfortable putting words on the page without resorting to something like, "Get this done by Monday or you lose your iPad for a week," which is where I feel like we are right now. I don't want to strong-arm and force, but it's just not getting done any other way.

 

Any thoughts are welcome.

 

(ETA: I x-posted this on the K-8 board too, because I'm not sure whether this is the right place for this post. I can never quite tell what the distinction is between the two boards. My apologies if this was the wrong place to ask my question.)

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My oldest is 8, so take this as you will :) However, the first thing that came to my mind is to start where she is and gradually increase the requirements. So if she can write a paragraph comfortably, have her write a paragraph and one sentence to begin the next one. Next time, add another sentence to the paragraph, and so on. Tell her she has to make 3 edits a day. (Or whatever). Give her the baby steps to get it completed. Perhaps if she can focus on the small steps, she can let go of the anxiety. I would also take away whatever she's using as a distraction to getting the work done if I saw no improvement.

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My dd, with a very bright IQ btw, did WWS1 in 8th, WWS2 in 9th, and I just received WWS3 in the mail which means we have it on-hand to play around with for 10th.  If you consider her 6th, maybe put it away entirely for a year or two and do other things?

 

Writing Tales 2--You can do this, but instead of doing just one rewrite (appropriate for younger kids), how about *studying* a different version of the tale each day, discussing what makes it compelling, and then picking your favorite one to imitate?  

 

180 Days of Composition--neat stuff, has some team writing where you both write and trade

 

Don't Forget to Write--interesting writing assignments by professional writers, fun stuff!

 

do that kind of stuff and meanwhile work on typing.  For us, getting her typing was more important than anything.

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Maybe instead of looking for another writing curricula, you could change tack and look for something like The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron? It was written for adult writers and artists, who often struggle with perfectionism as well. It suggests something called morning pages--two pages of free writing per day, full of whatever you feel like. It can be a place to record dreams or story ideas, do character sketches, plot a story, or just record the events of the day, like a diary. The idea is that it does not need to be good writing, and no one else sees it unless you want to share, so it is a safe place to write badly. Which can lead to being more comfortable with writing overall. (I don't remember any objectionable content, but you should read it first to make sure it is acceptable for your family.)

Also, my son has had much better success with his creative writing when we set aside a specific time for him to sit and write and *I* enforce it. He doesn't have to produce, but he does have to sit.

 

If you really want curricula, something like Bravewriter, which emphasizes process over product, might help too.

 

PS. Please remind your dd of how many full grown adults signed up for NaNo and didn't make their word count (raises hand sheepishly) but that she doesn't have to stop just because the month ends!

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Your post screams Brave Writer to me.

 

If you're nervous about the price tag on The Writer's Jungle or signing up for a class, subscribe to Julie's blog. And join the Brave Writer Lifestyle Group if you're on Facebook.

 

The Brave Writer way forward would be to maybe do dictation or copywork from something she's reading (or that you're reading aloud) once a week. A nice, meaty passage worth discussing. And to do freewriting once a week. Timed, don't put the pencil down, don't stop even if you're just writing, "I don't know what to write" over and over and then let her hide it in a folder and never look if she really doesn't want to share it. And then drop the other programs and give her time to meet that NanNoWriMo goal. Or another goal. Or another fun project. Faltering Ownership isn't out yet (argh) but it will be soon, I think. And that would be the right stage for her. And I'll second Don't Forget to Write mentioned above as another source for project ideas. Or she can come up with them herself.

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We used Jump In in middle school and it definitely was a wonderful step that got both of my kids where they needed to go. Ds is the anxious, can't put it on paper until it is perfect type. I decided he needed light and gentle and we went to Wordsmith Apprentice. Really, it just doesn't get lighter. Then from there to Jump In. It went through such small gradual steps. I would push though, no stopping for panic. If it took hours to get the words on the paper, so be it. Each year, I asked for more. He did NaNoWriMo, but started with a goal smaller than your dd's, I don't remember the first. 

 

At this point that same child writes volumes for AP English, has done OYAN and Other Worlds, has completed 50,000 words for NaNoWriMo, is planning a writing major in college.

 

Don't be afraid to take small steps and don't be afraid to draw lines and say what must be done either.

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Bravewriter is, no joke, the thing that is helping my very anxious but highly verbal "ideas" boy turn into a dandy little writer. He's just 9.5 but I have every confidence it is the right approach for kids like him. (He's doing NaNoWriMo too, but no specific word count goal. Because anxiety and perfectionism...quality and love over quantity at this stage.)

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Thank you, everyone. We've been busy, but I need to look at the resources you've suggested. They sound very interesting. I especially think she'd like the one where we trade off writing.

 

I gave her a writing assignment yesterday--two paragraphs on a school-related topic of her choice. Choosing the topic made her flop around in agony  :lol: So I finally gave her a topic (ultimate frisbee, it's related to an event she went to recently. More time went by, and I told her to wrap up, and she wailed, "But I don't even know the RULES of ultimate frisbee!" I told her I didn't say she had to tell me the rules. She just had to write something about ultimate frisbee. It took her an hour and involved much procrastination, but ultimately she wrote me two very nice paragraphs about her experience with ultimate frisbee!

 

We also looked at some of the writing on a local private school's web site. She was like, "I can do better than this!" I said, " Then let's do it!" Hopefully we can start an upswing.

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Maybe instead of looking for another writing curricula, you could change tack and look for something like The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron? It was written for adult writers and artists, who often struggle with perfectionism as well. It suggests something called morning pages--two pages of free writing per day, full of whatever you feel like. It can be a place to record dreams or story ideas, do character sketches, plot a story, or just record the events of the day, like a diary. The idea is that it does not need to be good writing, and no one else sees it unless you want to share, so it is a safe place to write badly. Which can lead to being more comfortable with writing overall. (I don't remember any objectionable content, but you should read it first to make sure it is acceptable for your family.)

Also, my son has had much better success with his creative writing when we set aside a specific time for him to sit and write and *I* enforce it. He doesn't have to produce, but he does have to sit.

 

If you really want curricula, something like Bravewriter, which emphasizes process over product, might help too.

 

PS. Please remind your dd of how many full grown adults signed up for NaNo and didn't make their word count (raises hand sheepishly) but that she doesn't have to stop just because the month ends!

 

OK, I like the idea of The Artist's Way and of the two pages of free writing each morning. She really responds to things like that, mainly because they come from "experts" and not me, who apparently knows nothing, in spite of my writing background. I'm going to talk to her about that today.

 

Your post screams Brave Writer to me.

 

If you're nervous about the price tag on The Writer's Jungle or signing up for a class, subscribe to Julie's blog. And join the Brave Writer Lifestyle Group if you're on Facebook.

 

The Brave Writer way forward would be to maybe do dictation or copywork from something she's reading (or that you're reading aloud) once a week. A nice, meaty passage worth discussing. And to do freewriting once a week. Timed, don't put the pencil down, don't stop even if you're just writing, "I don't know what to write" over and over and then let her hide it in a folder and never look if she really doesn't want to share it. And then drop the other programs and give her time to meet that NanNoWriMo goal. Or another goal. Or another fun project. Faltering Ownership isn't out yet (argh) but it will be soon, I think. And that would be the right stage for her. And I'll second Don't Forget to Write mentioned above as another source for project ideas. Or she can come up with them herself.

 

Here's the thing: I OWN The Writer's Jungle. I can see it from where I'm sitting right now. It's very overwhelming to me and I can't quite figure out how to implement it. You reminded me that for a short while (before summer derailed it), we were doing sporadic  "author teas," where the three of us would sit together around the kitchen table and write for awhile based on a writing prompt. I had forgotten all about that. Why did those work so well? Was it because the prompt was so clearly defined? Or because I was writing with her? Unfortunately, those were frustrating because my youngest had some very specific standards for author tea, and the food and drink requirements became very involved and we starting arguing over them *sigh* That may be part of why they got so easily derailed. 

 

I'll take another look at TWJ. Is that what we're talking about here, or is there another element of BW that would fit this situation better? I've also looked at her online classes, and I can't quite figure out which would work best for my DD. I do want to start her in an online class or two, just to get her feet wet and ready for later, when I think we'll have to rely on them more heavily.

 

We used Jump In in middle school and it definitely was a wonderful step that got both of my kids where they needed to go. Ds is the anxious, can't put it on paper until it is perfect type. I decided he needed light and gentle and we went to Wordsmith Apprentice. Really, it just doesn't get lighter. Then from there to Jump In. It went through such small gradual steps. I would push though, no stopping for panic. If it took hours to get the words on the paper, so be it. Each year, I asked for more. He did NaNoWriMo, but started with a goal smaller than your dd's, I don't remember the first. 

 

At this point that same child writes volumes for AP English, has done OYAN and Other Worlds, has completed 50,000 words for NaNoWriMo, is planning a writing major in college.

 

Don't be afraid to take small steps and don't be afraid to draw lines and say what must be done either.

 

Thank you for this. I'll look at Wordsmith Apprentice. I know the name, but I don't think I've ever given it serious consideration before.

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Thank you for this. I'll look at Wordsmith Apprentice. I know the name, but I don't think I've ever given it serious consideration before.

 

If she can write as well as you describe it is too easy for her. I don't know if flying through something too easy might help her build confidence or if you should just move on to Jump In. It sounds like she is more than capable of doing Jump In.

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Here's the thing: I OWN The Writer's Jungle. I can see it from where I'm sitting right now. It's very overwhelming to me and I can't quite figure out how to implement it. You reminded me that for a short while (before summer derailed it), we were doing sporadic  "author teas," where the three of us would sit together around the kitchen table and write for awhile based on a writing prompt. I had forgotten all about that. Why did those work so well? Was it because the prompt was so clearly defined? Or because I was writing with her? Unfortunately, those were frustrating because my youngest had some very specific standards for author tea, and the food and drink requirements became very involved and we starting arguing over them *sigh* That may be part of why they got so easily derailed. 

 

I'll take another look at TWJ. Is that what we're talking about here, or is there another element of BW that would fit this situation better? I've also looked at her online classes, and I can't quite figure out which would work best for my DD. I do want to start her in an online class or two, just to get her feet wet and ready for later, when I think we'll have to rely on them more heavily.

 

Yes, all the tools you need are in TWJ. It's not for everyone, for the reasons you're saying and it's not open and go. I wish Faltering Ownership were out because that would be perfect (it got delayed). However, your "author teas" sound beautiful and that's the sort of thing that is very BW lifestyle. I guess I would say to try and make a stronger routine of doing things like that. That's the whole idea behind BW - you make stuff like that routine, like every Monday (or whatever), you do that author tea no matter what. Doing dictation would also be a big part of a BW lifestyle as well.

 

Kidswrite Basic is the online class version of TWJ. I know it sounds too basic for a 12 yo who's writing pretty well, but kids all the way up to high school take it. So if you decide to dive in with an online class, that's probably the one to start with.

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Well, I know some people think it is bland and boring, but we are loving Writing Strands for my twin 12 year old girls (also 7th grade). They are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum- one prolific writer who writes at least an hour a day on her own, and one with dysgraphia and a language disorder. My writer loves Writing Strands because the advice he gives is so clear. I told her she didn't have to do the program and she is choosing to do it because she says it helps her. My struggler is writing more than ever because the directions are so simple and clear. This is a kid who really struggles with ideas, but because he carefully walks them through the process, she is able to be tremendously successful. 

It is completely self-directed and has been a huge hit. It's the perfect amount of writing. 

 

FWIW, I bought Writing Strands in 3rd grade for them and we all hated it so I sold it. It just works now, I think because they are old enough to be more independent and have had a few years of WWE. 

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If she can write as well as you describe it is too easy for her. I don't know if flying through something too easy might help her build confidence or if you should just move on to Jump In. It sounds like she is more than capable of doing Jump In.

 

I actually like some of the things I see in Wordsmith Apprentice. I'm going to try to pick up a cheap copy somewhere. Worst case scenario, it will be good for my younger, and some of the exercises (like the newspaper headlines) look like they'll spark some creativity for both of them. We can do them together at our newly reinstated author teas :lol: I like the look of Wordsmith too--I'll have to give that one more thought. I really wish I could see everything in person!

 

Yes, all the tools you need are in TWJ. It's not for everyone, for the reasons you're saying and it's not open and go. I wish Faltering Ownership were out because that would be perfect (it got delayed). However, your "author teas" sound beautiful and that's the sort of thing that is very BW lifestyle. I guess I would say to try and make a stronger routine of doing things like that. That's the whole idea behind BW - you make stuff like that routine, like every Monday (or whatever), you do that author tea no matter what. Doing dictation would also be a big part of a BW lifestyle as well.

 

Kidswrite Basic is the online class version of TWJ. I know it sounds too basic for a 12 yo who's writing pretty well, but kids all the way up to high school take it. So if you decide to dive in with an online class, that's probably the one to start with.

 

OK, I see. I'll have to start wading through BW again and refresh my memory. I know that I loved the idea of the BW lifestyle, but it also felt overwhelming, and we were already doing WWE at the time, so I felt like we had those bases covered. 

 

Why is dictation so important? I was so relieved when we finished WWE and could drop dictation!

 

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DD12 (7th grade) did the first 16 lessons of WWS1 as a 6th grader (fresh out of WWE 1 & 2) and it really took it's toll.  I allowed her to get to week 16 and then put it away for the summer, planning to restart it as a 7th grader.  This girl loves to write and read and but was just overwhelmed with WWS1.  (I think it was the "Write XXX down.  Then go through your paper, edit and rewrite the whole thing." Very frustrating for my DD who writes (physically) very slowly. 

 

I dreaded starting WWS1 again this fall so I got her Wordsmith (not Apprentice, it looked too easy for this girl).  DS10 is doing Wordsmith Apprentice.  I will add that she's done grades 3-6 of Rod & Staff English and we've been very grammar heavy for the last few years.

 

For SotW, we are following the WTM method but she has chosen to write historical poems for each topic instead of a page of information.  Would that be something your daughter would try?  For my DD, I think she puts in more time on editing than she would on prose.  DS10 is doing Wordsmith Apprentice, and I really feel it is so ridiculously easy for him...not sure I'd get it for a 7th grader?? 

 

I'm going to add Bravewriter to my "to consider" list, I don't know that I've ever researched it!!

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Why is dictation so important? I was so relieved when we finished WWE and could drop dictation!

 

Dictation is so you can practice mechanics and grammar without as much anxiety over it being your own words. Even most good writers at this age still need practice in spelling and mechanics and so forth. For kids with anxiety about writing (and even kids without!) they can get really attached to their words and really upset about changing them in the revision process. It can be either really anger/tear inducing to think about going back to fix it or it can be really stopping some kids from writing in the first place because they're worried about those elements (perfectionism). So the idea is - yes, even at this age - you keep doing dictation to practice things like that so that you don't end up trying to use original writing for that.

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I like this thread!

 

I have the same kinda girl, who is 10. By far and away, the one thing that helps her write is me writing with her. As in we both write to a prompt, or do a rewrite of a fable, or a poem, and then we read them out loud.

Admittedly I don't always have the time, and would love to be able to just assign stuff. Yeah, it always ends in bad things. Best wishes, and I am reading through this thread for more ideas.

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