Barton seems a bit intense for 1st grade... any other ideas?

[Jenn in CA]

I have free access to Barton reading thru our charter school. Currently I have level 2 for my 2 1st graders.

 

 

I haven't used it in a while though because it's so hard for them, ie. very taxing. They can't handle more than 10 min. of intense work like that at a time. I did maybe 1 or 2 sessions from level 2 (I don't think we even finished the first lesson) and then stopped.

 

Currently, I have them each read to me aloud from these Christian Liberty readers that I have. They're doing long sounds of vowels, altho the younger girl is farther along than the older one (they're 10 mo apart). They each read to me for 10 min 3x/wk.

 

 

They've covered almost all the Barton Level 2 sounds (consonant sounds, short vowel sounds, maybe 3 or 4 of the 5(?) digraphs, in the CL readers. So I've been thinking, after we cover the rest of the digraphs in the readers, then we'll go back to Barton.

 

Is there a curriculum that would be similar to Barton, but easier to use for 1st grade? I keep feeling like Barton is really for kids who are older. Also I don't like the long lessons (even though I know you can just stop any time).

 

I've been wondering if All About Reading would be just as thorough, but more fun for younger kids.

 

BTW it's only the older girl who has many signs of dyslexia and is having a harder time, but both girls need lots of support in reading.

 

Thx for any thoughts. 

 

PS I saw someone else recently posted a listed of "Barton-approved OG programs." Are any of those intended for younger kids? Perhaps I can get one from my charter school.

 

[Lecka]

If you can have it paid for -- there is Wilson Fundations, it is for younger kids.  

 

Other options are -- All About Reading, Logic of English, Abecedarian (abcdrp.com) that can be more for little kids.  I think there are more, too, those are just off the top of my head programs I think have a good reputation.  

 

But if your charter would do Wilson Fundations -- it is an approved OG program, I am pretty sure. 

 

The others, to some extent, are sound reading programs but not necessarily the best choice for someone who is struggling and needs a lot of support.  They are more good, solid choices.  

 

You have got to just stop as appropriate, it will be like that in anything you use.  You can also try to work for 5 minutes (or even 3 minutes) if 10 is too much.  If 10 is so much you don't want to do it ----- then 10 is too much.  If you find you can stop after 3-5 minutes and not have them worn to the bone, you can think about having more sessions in a day or week, and it will not seem as taxing, but you will spend more total time.  

 

Good luck!!!!!!!!

[OneStepAtATime]

O.k. here are some random thoughts, but I'm typing on the fly so not sure how cohesive this will be.

 

1.  I am assuming you haven't had an eval so you aren't absolutely certain they have dyslexia?  Barton is a pretty intense program (and usually unnecessary) for a kid that isn't dyslexic.  It is even more intense for one that is but that is because reading/writing/spelling can be really challenging for a dyslexic.  

 

2.  If you truly have a dyslexic child then ANY reading program may be very intense and challenging.  That's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.  

 

3.  OG based programs usually work best for a dyslexic, but those are all pretty intense and take a lot of effort on the part of the parent AND the child.  There are some that may work better for a younger child but may move too quickly for a true dyslexic.  

 

All About Reading is a good program.  It might work for your kids quite well.  Many have used it successfully.  But I know several parents who did it that found it moved way too quickly for their child to truly grasp and retain the information, and it is definitely teacher intensive.  Until you try it with your children, though, there is no way to know how they will do.  You might read the Weird Unsocialized Homeschoolers blog.  She uses that program and has at least one dyslexic child.

 

Lecka mentioned Wilson Foundations and I don't know as much about that one.  You might look into that.  See if you can at least look at it.  Maybe it is what you seek.  Again, though, any OG based program is going to require a lot of time and effort on your part and that of your children.  And most OG programs are set up to be used with tutors that have hour long sessions since that is what most tutors are given to work with their students.  You will have to be willing to break up the program into what works for your children, no matter what program you use.

 

3. If you can't get Wilson Foundations to try out and you already have access to Barton, you might give it another run but tweak your approach a bit?  

 

• When you were doing Level 2, did you break the lessons up into smaller segments over multiple days?  I had to do that with even my 6th grader and certainly my 2nd/3rd grader.  We got into a rhythm that worked very well most of the time, but I had to move very slowly with even DD or she didn't internalize and retain the skills.  DS, my younger, moved quite a bit quicker but he still needed time.  Our rhythm with DS usually went like this:
  • Monday: We did A - G and stopped.  
  • Tuesday: Next day we reviewed D and E then did F-G again with the second set of words then continued on to do H-I then stopped.  
  • Wednesday: Then the next day we reviewed again briefly and did J-M.  
  • Thursday:  We reviewed briefly and did L-P.  
  • Fridays: We played games with the material.  
  • Sometimes DD needed even smaller pieces so we moved even more slowly but I tried hard to keep it fun and keep her engaged.  DS could have moved even faster than the pattern I had above but I learned after working with DD that faster is not always better.  We had to repeat with DD because I moved her too quickly and made the sessions too long when we first started.
• Have you looked at the Spelling Success cards?  I wish I had had the Spelling Success cards then.  We use those a lot now and I love them.  
• Level 2 has 5 lessons.  That doesn't mean that it should be covered in 5 days.  In fact, for most dyslexics it probably shouldn't be, IMHO.  Each child has different strengths and weaknesses but being dyslexic, at least for my kids, what they needed to unlock decoding, encoding and fluency was for me to take them back to the very basic building blocks of reading and move forward again at whatever pace worked for them, even if that meant crawling for a bit.  DD spent weeks on Level 1 and Level 2.  In fact, it took her months to finish them both.  DS went through Level 1 in a week and Level 2 in a month and a week.  Different kids, different needs.
• Did you read the back of the manual and incorporate some games into your lessons?
• Do you have a clearly delineated space for working with Barton, no clutter, no distractions?  When I started doing that it really helped my younger one to stay focused on the lesson.
• Are you also dealing with any sort of ADHD situation?  That add a whole other level of challenge.
• Are you tutoring them both at the same time?  If so, might it work better if it were just one on one?
• Final thoughts on modification options:
  • If they can only work for 10 minutes, then do 10 minutes.  If 5 minutes works better, do 5.  But do 5 minutes ever single day.  
  • Do it when they are fresh and ready.  
  • Do it after they have had some intense physical exercise and are ready to sit for a bit.  
  • Do it at about the same time each day so you get into a rhythm and they come to expect it.  
  • Don't put it to the end of the day when you are all tired and wanting a break (Maybe you aren't but I thought I would mention it.  I made that mistake and when I switched Barton to first thing in the morning after breakfast and a morning walk and stuck with it every day then even DD started coming to expect it and actually began requesting lessons after a while.)

Not sure I helped any.  I don't have a magic bullet suggestion for a better program for youngers.  I am sure you will find something that works.  Maybe someone on the boards will have a good suggestion.  Hugs and best wishes!

[Jenn in CA]

Thank you both. You're both right, it's gonna be intense no matter what.

 

I looked at level 2 again and it doesn't look so bad now.

 

One thought: I can't remember for sure but it seems Barton says not to do read aloud practice at this point? Maybe we should do Barton only and skip reading from the readers. I think that would make it much more doable.

 

Or maybe do it only with the dyslexic one.

 

Yes I was doing some games in level 1, but haven't looked at the level 2 games yet. Part of the appeal of AAR... It's all scheduled into the lessons.

 

Thanks for helping me think about this!

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes, Barton says no outside reading through Level 3 (at least) except for leveled readers that track with Barton.  Trying to prevent bad guessing habits from developing or getting rid of bad habits if they already exist.  There are lists of leveled readers produced by other companies at the back of each TM and when it would work fine to incorporate those readers.

 

In the meantime, though, still do read alouds or listen to books at a higher reading level so they are being exposed to vocabulary/concepts/grammar above where they can easily read.  Intellectually they will almost certainly be able to understand higher literature than leveled readers can provide.  The leveled readers are just for decoding/encoding/fluency practice so don't expect something terribly engaging.  :)

 

Also, there are a lot of supports on the website and there are fluency drills.  I did not do the fluency drills for Level 2 and regret that now for DS.  DD didn't need them.  If you think they need work on fluency, then look at those drills.  Really helpful.

 

I also put all the pages into easy load, non-glare sheet protectors and the kids used a lot of the sheets with dry erase markers.  They liked those.  We still did some on a dry erase board and some on paper but just reusing the same sheets with dry erase markers was helpful for speed.

 

FWIW, there is an IPad app for Barton so you don't have to deal with the tiles if you get to higher levels but I do not recommend the app for the early levels.  I think the kids need the tactile and visual of working with actual tiles in the early levels.

 

 

[PeterPan]

I'm sorry, but I don't remember enough of what you've told us in the past to remember all your situation.  They've had evals and you know it's dyslexia?  Any adhd?  And you've had their vision checked.  Obviously I'm a newer user, since we're doing B1, but I'd be concerned about whether they're *placed* correctly since you're finding it so hard.  My ds has NO problem with doing 10 minute sessions and they aren't taxing the way you're describing.  But that's because he's placed correctly and every single step is small, with gradually increasing levels of abstraction.  When it's feeling like calculus for 6 yos, you're probably not placed properly.  It doesn't matter what they "know" because their knowledge can be segregated in their brain.  They may have memorized shapes and not really be able to manipulate them in their mind and USE them.  Did you do Barton level 1 with them?  It's wicked hard.  We're in our third week combining it with LIPS.  It's just the perpetual journey.  Every time you think Oh yeah, my bright kid can just DO that, nope, nope, nope.  So we take these TEENY TINY steps.

 

Did you do the Barton placement test?  http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen  Do that first.  They MUST pass that to be ready.  It makes sure they have enough *working memory* as well as the phonemic awareness.  Then need to make sure they test out of Barton 1.  There's a placement test in the back of the manual for it, so you can check it out.  My guess, since B2 is so wicked hard for them, is they need to back up.  You'd rather back up, spend some time getting these things solid, and THEN go forward.  The progression lets you build the level of abstraction very gradually.  It's actually REALLY HARD to do the skills in B1.  My ds6 only had 3 digits of working memory when he was eval'd.  It wouldn't have mattered how many letters and sounds he knew, he still couldn't have done the skills because he doesn't even have the working memory to do the tasks.  That's what LIPS does for you, building working memory.  To use three tiles, that's 3 digits of working memory.  But we're asking them to hold a NEW word, figure out more sounds, hold them, subtract, hold all that while they move tiles.  They actually need more like 4-5 digits of working memory to be functional at that!  So yeah, it's like flying to the moon with your ipad as your computer.  You *can* but *should* you?   :lol: 

 

So back up, check your foundation.  It's not about what letters they know but what they can DO with the sounds.  Do the pretest http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen  and then if they pass that do the test for B1 to make sure they test out of it.  Then see where you're at.

 

And nope, no problems making it fly here.  We have an awesome time with it.  I start each session him reminding him we can go turtle, average, or SUPER SONIC, and that's what we do.  I make sure every step is super small and incremental.  We're doing 4 sessions a day, typically 10-15 minutes in the session.  I keep it REALLY FAST, really upbeat.  I'd work with your kids separately, frankly.  That way you can make sure they're focused and not riding off the other.  You'll actually go faster.  We work, earn a break, work, earn a break, and so on.  I feed rewards constantly (raisins, cashews, high value).  If he does 4 "ears" sessions with me, he receives a gift.  (playmobil or lego mystery figure, frosty coupon, character from a Toob, whatever).  We're also working on working memory and midline issues several ways each day.  

 

As far as the age friendly, the immediate rewards help.  I shake up the manipulatives, so we have sandpaper letters, magnet letters, salt tray, etc. and we use different things in different ways each session.  He is ADHD btw (inattentive, on the edge of combined), and working with him is like running greyhounds, wow. I don't know, works for us.  But I'm totally prepared and only plan 10 minutes of full attention then DONE.  I'd definitely break those kids up.  It might seem like more work for you, but it might even motivate them.  If you have a device with apps (phone, whatever), I'd put the other child on the couch for that 10 minutes with that device and apps.  That way they're happy as larks, totally quiet (put the device on mute obviously) and they're overhearing all your work.  Work with one dc 10 min, then switch.  That way in 20 minutes you've done both kids and both kids were motivated to stay focused.  Then both go on break together for 1/2 hour.  We really have to have those breaks or his brain circuits melt.  I let him have a dvd episode for that, something educational, and that's when I get my break.  Feed during breaks so their blood sugar to their brain doesn't drop. 

 

If you can keep up with it, you can do sticker charts for their sessions so they can see the completion of their day.  I have things like the Ziggy puppet from AAR pre.  I don't bring it in, because frankly it's just a distraction.  We have lots of fun other ways, but when we sit down to work we really try to be in rocket/super sonic mode.  I don't know, works for us.  

[OneStepAtATime]

OhE has a good point.  

1.  Did you take the tutor screening?

2.  Did you give the student screening to your kids?

3.  If not, then do that first, even if you want to switch to another program.  If there are problems with that screening then any reading program may cause struggles until those problems are addressed.

4.  And definitely this is the million dollar question.  Did you do Level 1 of Barton?  If you didn't, I'd back up pronto and do level one.  Absolutely.  I wouldn't even test out of it.  I'd just do it.   It may seem like going backwards is a bad idea but now that we are at level 4 I am so so glad we started with Level 1.  That was the level that helped everything that came after it finally gel.  These are not grade levels.  These are building blocks.  If you don't have all the building blocks in place, the next layer of building blocks isn't stable.

[Jenn in CA]

Lots of great stuff here. Thx  Lecka, OhE and OneStep. You may or may not remember but you've all helped me a lot in the past too. :)

Yes, we did Level 1. It was tough for my struggling learner but she did pass and now she's doing a lot better w/that whole phonemic awareness thing.

 

Today I pulled out our Level 2 again. Part of my problem is reading the manual and teaching it at the same time... I will make some time to watch the DVDs soon. I hate watching instructional DVDs. Maybe I'll put it on 1.5x speed. :)

 

Anyway, the struggler was very unhappy but after a little talk about attitude, she did fine. The other one did great and loved it. So I hope after some more sessions of getting the lingo and steps more automatic, it will be easier.

 

And yes, I separated them which helped tremendously as well.

 

Right now we're all pooped though. :) I will have to put the letters on a tray or something, so we can easily do it again later in the day... at this point, getting out the tiles, flipping them all over, lining them all up, makes me wanna cry.

 

BTW I did Dianne Craft's Brain Integration Therapy last spring, I can't remember if we were doing Barton L1 at the same time, before, or after. But anyway, that BIT worked wonders. I really believe it "opened the learning gates" for my struggler. There's still some difficulty. But learning is waaaay easier than it was before we did it.

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh,yes.  Forgot the details of previous posts.

 

As for the tutoring itself, I found when I didn't watch the videos while reading the manual then read the manual again afterwards, then actually practice with my mother the first couple of lessons of Level 2 I was honestly doing a pretty choppy job of tutoring and felt very frustrated.  Once I started watching the DVDs, reading the manual and then also practicing a bit with my mother at least a day or two before the tutoring my delivery was so much smoother and the lessons progressed WAY more efficiently.  I don't practice with anyone else anymore but it really helped for Level 2.  I also have to read the lesson from the manual again before each and every lesson in mental prep even now.  Otherwise I keep having to pause to read the manual again during the lesson.  You are right, flipping back and forth between manual and student is distracting for the student and draining for the tutor.  I am sorry that instructional DVDs are not your thing.  That makes this a bit more challenging.

 

I don't know if you are interested but a lot of people put magnets on the back of the tiles and stick them to cookie sheets.  There is also a company that will provide a great magnetic system for you to use, and they will even provide already magnetized tiles if you want but it costs money.  Check Google for magnetic tiles for Barton and see if you can find it, if you are interested.  It can be used all the way through Level 10 and looks great for organization.

 

DD hates magnetized tiles and she doesn't like the app so I bought a small folding table and we set up a corner that is only for Barton.  The tiles stay on the table, laid out and ready to go.  I have a small shelf nearby that keeps the rest of the materials at hand.  I don't know if you have that option but I thought I would mention it.  It has helped so much not to have to put away all those tiles after every lesson and DD helps me get them lined up again so it doesn't take very long (and we have a LOT of tiles now in Level 4).

 

Good luck!   :)

 

 

[FairProspects]

I agree it is for older kids and we jumped as soon as I could find something else that worked better for us. I really wish someone would put out a great OG program for youngers K-2 but right now I feel like most people either don't get their kids identified that quickly or cobble something together. For us, we put together parts of Recipe for Reading, SRA phonics workbooks, and AAS. AAS is my personal favorite presentation of OG material but I think AAR moves too quickly in general for a dyslexic. We did through Barton 2 and parts of 3 and then just moved to AAS.

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree it is for older kids and we jumped as soon as I could find something else that worked better for us. I really wish someone would put out a great OG program for youngers K-2 but right now I feel like most people either don't get their kids identified that quickly or cobble something together. For us, we put together parts of Recipe for Reading, SRA phonics workbooks, and AAS. AAS is my personal favorite presentation of OG material but I think AAR moves too quickly in general for a dyslexic. We did through Barton 2 and parts of 3 and then just moved to AAS.

I would really like there to be like pre-levels or something for Barton.  Something for younger children.  

And something as clearly laid out as Barton but starting with really basic basic subitization skills like Ronit Bird but for really young kids starting out in math.

 

As dyslexia and math issues become better known parents are going to be able to be proactive at younger ages.  I wish programs reflected that already...Maybe when my kids have kids...

[Ottakee]

This might not be enough for them, but the I See Sam program is much easier to use.  www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com  You can even find the first 2 sets of readers free in PDF if you google them.

 

It starts out with 3 words made up of 5 sounds---I (long sound/word), S, M, a (short sound) and ee (2 es together saying the long sound)  They blend them into the words I see Sam.  The program moves very slowly but you can do it in 10 minute segments in the beginning and move as fast as they are able.

 

Once they are through sets 3 or 4 then you can add Apples and Pears Spelling and if needed the Bear Necessities reading program as they go well together.

[Laura W.]

I use Recipe for Reading with my youngest.  We started out with Barton level 1 last year and he hated it.  The lady I consult with on special ed issues believes Recipe for Reading is better for younger children and has a lot of multisensory experiences built into it.  However, it really helps if you attend the training session that IMSE does for the program.

 

Barton is a great program,  though.  I had excellent results with my two older ld kids.  One of them is in level 8 of Barton.  The other started struggling with level 6, so I moved him into Recipe for Reading, but I'd like to complete Barton levels 6-8 with him afterwards.  I think your idea of trying it again is excellent.  A little more maturity of the part of your children can make a lot of difference in how successful they are in Barton.

 

Blessings,

 

Laura

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree maturity may be a huge factor in success, depending on the child.  DD is far more able to move through things now that she is older.  So much seems to be clicking, not just in Barton.  She still struggles but light bulbs seem to be going off that just couldn't turn on before.

 

I had not heard of Recipe for Reading.  It would be great if there were something that worked like Barton for very young children.  I know OhE has had success with her son in Barton but I think a lot of little kids might struggle.  I doubt DD could have done Barton back in kinder.  Maybe, but it would have been MUCH harder then.  I do wish we could have started in 1st grade, though, just going slowly.    

[PeterPan]

Yes, we're doing great with Barton 1, just finished, and have Barton 2 on the way.  But it's true we shake it up with multi-sensory stuff (sand tray, magnet letters, PROMPT muscle inputs for his speech, the LIPS cards, lots of food, etc.).  You also have to remember he has had intensive speech therapy since he was 2.  He's used to being sat down and forced to do something he doesn't really want to do.  I make it pretty high value, with food rewards and a daily gift if he does the required # sessions.  It's hard for both of us, but we make it work.  But yes, you're correct that we're adding the LIFE to it that isn't obvious from the barebones of the Barton manual.  I can't imagine where we'd be if we were doing only precisely what is scripted there.

 

And I taught my dd with SWR for, what, 8+ years?  And I've done the parent training for his speech therapy technique to learn how to lesson plan it at home.  I'm bringing the manual to life.

 

Apparently ds overheard me saying I'm the magic, because recently he asked me if I'm magic and if I could show him how to be magic.  :D