Structuring school to be independent?

[Dmmetler]

I just agreed to take an adjunct contract for Spring semester if there are enough kids to offer the class. I'll be going back to teaching ECED music lab classes (where I get to teach a group of preschoolers with college students watching, and then explain what I did, with them learning to write lesson plans and teaching the occasional lesson in the 2nd half of the term).

 

So far, I've told them I can teach one day a week. DH will be home, but working full-time and unable to do much, if anything with DD beyond provide support if the pipes break and the sink is overflowing or something.

 

So, I need ideas for what is reasonable for a young 10 yr old to do independently for school when I won't be there. She's fairly independent in some ways now, but does have me there to bounce ideas off of and that sort of thing: She likes the idea of being more independent and having more responsibility, and I want to structure this so that it's not an entirely lost day, but at a level where it's still reasonable for her to complete the work on her own.

 

What we're doing this Spring

 

AOPS Algebra

Mathletics (review, set on 8th grade Singapore Standards right now)

Athena's Academy SOTW 4 (she will have the webinar while I'm gone, which will take up part of the time)

Cambridge Latin stage 4 (UK version), including online supplement, practice for the NLVE

Uzinggo Chemistry and physics, Chemistry in the Community, LOF Chemistry

Vertebrate Pathology (audited, doing prepared labs at home and virtual labs)

Science research w/mentor, reading articles, and writing summaries/responses.

SD Accelerate, basically doing anything she wants (until March when the free subscription expires)

LL 8.

Copywork (handwriting practice)

Projects/preparation for NME (Classics club) and CML/MK/N2K (Math club).

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

What my turning 10 can do independently is the AoPS books and any online classes. For AoPS, if he is stuck, he just put a mark next to the question number and move on. We discuss when he is done those he couldn't do without a hint/prompt.

He is a seasoned online class taker after three years of it so I just need to check at the end of the day what his weak areas are.

 

For German, he can do the vocabulary homework and assigned reading independently but need help for grammar.

 

ETA:

He loves that I mark out the homework pages with post its.

[acurtis75]

She can probably do most of that by herself if you give her a checklist to work on while you are gone. I've found that dd9 CAN do everything by herself now but that doesn't mean she necessarily gets it done without me there. My dh has started taking her to his office every once in a while and I give her a list and his responsibility is to ask her every hour or so how much she has done to curb the daydreaming. He doesn't really check work or have any idea what she is doing but the occasional check in on her means she gets more done.

 

DD likes checklists. She also really likes free time to read, sew or work on any of her many creative projects so giving her a list that says get xyz done and then you can have free time works pretty well.

[EndOfOrdinary]

We have been working on this a lot here, so I asked my young, recently ten year old what has been helpful. Ds gave me three things:

 

Structured Content: "I like doing digital stuff or subjects that I know exactly what to expect. In our math and Latin it is the next section. I can do that. I know exactly what to do with history cards or Spanish flash cards because it is really simple. You can't really mess them up. I don't wonder if I am doing something wrong. I am confident with digital stuff too. If I am supposed to do writing or something, I sort of get all anxious and want to check a bunch if I am doing the right thing. I can't do that if my mom is not there to ask, so I don't get much done. What I do get done is usually not that great either."

 

Specific Start Times: "When start times were left really open, I would just keep playing and push it. I would tell myself I was going to start school after the next video or after the next time I died on my video game, but then I would just say it again and again. Next thing I knew, two hours had gone by and I was panicked and I could not get enough school work done. When we changed it to say school had to start at 8 o'clock, then I would play till then and start. It was specific enough. Once I started everything was fine, but getting going was hard by myself."

 

Specific Personal Time: "We changed it so that instead of me just taking a break whenever, I knew just when to take a break and for how long. I get a half hour between Chemistry and the afternoon bookwork in my languages. If I do that, then I am done by 1 and I get the whole afternoon off. I know I will get one hour of reading my own book and one hour of IPad time every evening and usually my dad plays a game with me, too. I do not have to feel like school is dragging on. I also do not have to feel like I should just take a break whenever. When I did that school really did drag on, and I had no fun stuff, because I never got done. I mean, it totally makes sense, but I never seemed to get it during the school day. So we made a definite break time and definite nightly fun stuff. I can see it fit, so I know it will work out."

 

I don't know if those help or not. For a good month before venturing into me really pulling back, I made extremely sure to ask "What do we always do first?" Then, "What is next?" And so on through the various subjects that I knew he could handle by himself. "Where does the math book always live?" That sort of stuff. It hasn't moved in three years, but you never know! It was as if I really needed to hammer the process home. The kid is so smart sometimes and really quick, but others I will come downstairs and he isn't wearing pants. It makes me stop and think "Do we seriously have to cover getting dressed again!?" Asynchronous is just so much fun for parents!

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Checklists work well for my oldest dd, too.  She is doing most of her subjects independently this year.  I do write out specifically what I want her to do.  Sometimes she skips over instructions and misses things in her assignments if I don't write everything down.

[madteaparty]

I leave a list, which requires some forethought on my part. I think those two days I'm in the office might be his most productive :)

[lewelma]

Small hijack here, but on a related problem.  Can I ask how people handle subjects where the student can work independently after an introduction/explanation of the topic?  So younger ds can do 30 minutes of math after 15 minutes with me.  Or he can do 30 minutes of writing after brain-storming with me for 15 minutes.  I can't quite figure out how to block all the 'with-me' time separately from the 'independent' work.  He struggles with transitions, so by breaking each subject into 2 pieces I think will extend our day by at least an hour.  How do you guys deal with this?

 

Some breaks make sense, like he can do mandarin cards and listening on his own without any help from me, and then we do speaking together later.  So I'm talking about subjects where the work actually can't be done without initial help.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Korrale]

Checklists work for my son. He goes through his checklist of assigned work and writes an astrix on anything he doesn't understand. I go through his work and help him at the end. It helps that the curriculum we use is set up to be used independently.

[acurtis75]

Small hijack here, but on a related problem.  Can I ask how people handle subjects where the student can work independently after an introduction/explanation of the topic?  So younger ds can do 30 minutes of math after 15 minutes with me.  Or he can do 30 minutes of writing after brain-storming with me for 15 minutes.  I can't quite figure out how to block all the 'with-me' time separately from the 'independent' work.  He struggles with transitions, so by breaking each subject into 2 pieces I think will extend our day by at least an hour.  How do you guys deal with this?

 

Some breaks make sense, like he can do mandarin cards and listening on his own without any help from me, and then we do speaking together later.  So I'm talking about subjects where the work actually can't be done without initial help.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

I would say this is very similar to what happens here. DD can do most everything by herself but we lose a lot of time when the transition is up to her. If I plan time to check what she's done in between subjects it gets done more efficiently. 

 

If I have to be gone for a while I to the introduction/time together for all the subjects at once and give her a checklist. We might spend 20 or 30 minutes discussing what she should do, anything she needs to know before she starts and approximately how long it should take per subject.

 

If she has a checklist she gets her work done most of the time but it takes longer because she daydreams, gets distracted or takes rabbit trails. For example, today during her bible study time (which took place while I was taking a much needed nap) she was supposed to read 3 verses in Acts 16. When I got up she hadn't finished the lesson because "it was interesting" so she read the whole book of Acts. 

 

I don't mind that she spent more time on the lesson but when she does this it means we don't finish the checklist and the part of me that would like to be organized and efficient wishes we could finish our plans for the day. 

[freesia]

Small hijack here, but on a related problem.  Can I ask how people handle subjects where the student can work independently after an introduction/explanation of the topic?  So younger ds can do 30 minutes of math after 15 minutes with me.  Or he can do 30 minutes of writing after brain-storming with me for 15 minutes.  I can't quite figure out how to block all the 'with-me' time separately from the 'independent' work.  He struggles with transitions, so by breaking each subject into 2 pieces I think will extend our day by at least an hour.  How do you guys deal with this?

 

Some breaks make sense, like he can do mandarin cards and listening on his own without any help from me, and then we do speaking together later.  So I'm talking about subjects where the work actually can't be done without initial help.

 

Ruth in NZ

We do all the teaching in one session. I go through the math lesson, assign work; ditto grammar;ditto writing. All the assigned work waits. So, we might learn about binary numbers, then switch to Greek, then go over Predicate Nominatives, then brainstorm for writing. If there is a lot to go over, I might break it into a few sessions, but usually for my 11 year old one 30 minute session is enough. Then later I will sit with her to edit a paper, she might practice Greek with dh or ask for help in something--but all work is independent after this one on one session and group history.

 

Or is that what you were saying he couldn't do? If he has his checklist and a pile of books, it would still be a transition between subjects for him?

[EndOfOrdinary]

Small hijack here, but on a related problem. Can I ask how people handle subjects where the student can work independently after an introduction/explanation of the topic? So younger ds can do 30 minutes of math after 15 minutes with me. Or he can do 30 minutes of writing after brain-storming with me for 15 minutes. I can't quite figure out how to block all the 'with-me' time separately from the 'independent' work. He struggles with transitions, so by breaking each subject into 2 pieces I think will extend our day by at least an hour. How do you guys deal with this?

 

Some breaks make sense, like he can do mandarin cards and listening on his own without any help from me, and then we do speaking together later. So I'm talking about subjects where the work actually can't be done without initial help.

 

Ruth in NZ

I'm still trying to figure this out, so take this with some salt.

 

Short Answer:

I block the partial instruction time together and just have little stuff I can do so that I am half listening/watching Ds' work. This is because I want to be able to redirect if Ds starts to veer off or get confused. I block time in as close to two hour chunks as possible.

 

Longer answer:

Previously, I would just let him go after the instruction. However, I found that then we would have to back track or he would need to redo problems and everything seemed stilted. So now try to have some small things I can do which are slightly mindless, but still need to be done (dishes, simple mending, laundry, organizing stuff in Ds' portfolio, sorting the mountain of stuff that seems to appear on my desk). They are subjects he can do *almost* by himself, but I do not really consider these subjects independent.

 

I block out time so that it creates chunks of total independence, then partial independence. Two-ish hours in the morning Ds is one his own, then comes a two hour block where I am "kinda" needed. Ds takes a break and then does independent work again (2 hours). Last thing we do is writing together.

 

Ds thinks of the day in the order of his subjects, but I block it out in terms of how much he needs me. 7-9 am work time, 9-11 homeschool, 11-1 household chores, writing till 2, then more working. Two hours is enough time that I can actually get something done and come to a stopping place.

[Mukmuk]

Very helpful to hear from your son's PoV, EoO!

 

Ds and I discuss what is to be done for the week on Sunday. He's becoming more attached to a planner I gave him. The week to week subjects are the same - he copies them over to a fresh week and writes down the changes and assignments. I've blocked out class times, play dates etc for the week so he knows where his free blocks are. He's starting to write down weekly goals. I spotted one yesterday that read "Argue less with mama- nehh". Oh well. Work in progress!

 

Ds does classes. I leave him to do assignments but I do find that he goes off course with his thinking. This is specifically physics. We had a discussion last night about working with me in future- he's amenable. For everything else, and we admittedly don't do much, he's on his own. AoPS is divided into 3 segments for the week - class prep, Alcumus, and Challenge problems. He does it everyday and has a tutor once a week to help. Ds loves declaring, "I did it on my own". They pick up on bunny trails when there's time. They get along famously, and I love hearing their discussions as I cook. Writing too - the teacher's already discussed with him, so he needs 15-20minutes or so to write out his thoughts. Im anticipating this to change as he's moving on to rough drafts and organisation.

[lewelma]

Wow, this is really helpful.  Thanks guys! 

 

 

 

but I block it out in terms of how much he needs me. 7-9 am work time, 9-11 homeschool, 11-1 household chores, writing till 2, then more working.

Can you explain these blocks of time from your ds's point of view.  Is it 9-11 independent time, 11-1 partially independent, 1-2 with you?  If so, then when do you do your teaching/set up for the 4 hours of independent/partially independent work?  or do you?

 

In thinking about it, I think ds's problem is the inability to learn from the textbook explanations, like math and latin.  Right now, I have to explain the material and then he does the practice.  So perhaps this is what I need to slowly start on, in addition to getting him to work independently.  He just is a very social learner, which I have catered to so far, but I am thinking that at this point it is holding him back.  Balance in all things!

 

Ruth in NZ

[freesia]

In thinking about it, I think ds's problem is the inability to learn from the textbook explanations, like math and latin.  Right now, I have to explain the material and then he does the practice.  So perhaps this is what I need to slowly start on, in addition to getting him to work independently.  He just is a very social learner, which I have catered to so far, but I am thinking that at this point it is holding him back.  Balance in all things!

 

Ruth in NZ

Or you might find that he needs a bit more time. I had to read through my oldest child's math lesson with him through seventh grade. He probably would still love that, but he's able to do it without me now.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Wow, this is really helpful. Thanks guys!

 

Can you explain these blocks of time from your ds's point of view. Is it 9-11 independent time, 11-1 partially independent, 1-2 with you? If so, then when do you do your teaching/set up for the 4 hours of independent/partially independent work? or do you?

 

In thinking about it, I think ds's problem is the inability to learn from the textbook explanations, like math and latin. Right now, I have to explain the material and then he does the practice. So perhaps this is what I need to slowly start on, in addition to getting him to work independently. He just is a very social learner, which I have catered to so far, but I am thinking that at this point it is holding him back. Balance in all things!

 

Ruth in NZ

The school day looks mostly like this:

Personal time on the computer till 8:00 ish then watching one Learning Latin with Virgil and a couple Salsa! episodes. Both are on YouTube and done without anything from me.

 

I get up at 6:30, so after waking up and puttering in getting dressed/coffee/shower, I am doing my eBay work from 7-9 am.

 

At 9 I make both of us breakfast, pull out the whiteboard and we start math while eating. We use AoPS and most of the time now I do a quick little round up of the topic and he goes off to do it. The entire time I am within eye sight and ear shot. I am doing the dishes, laundry, picking up and watching a bit to see if he really is doing as well as he thinks. Sometimes it actually turns into teaching and discussion and sometimes he is on it and does not need me at all. That is about an hour. Chemistry is next. Whiteboard stays out. I read aloud a section of Apologia, he might do some equations on the whiteboard, work through a study guide for a test, watch GPB or Crash Course and discuss, much more of a mish mash. Again, I am hovering a bit if I am not directly involved. Most of this one he is taking the lead on and everything to chose from is listed on OneNote. By now it is 11.

 

Ds takes a break for a half hourish. When he comes back in he has Spanish bookwork (at the whiteboard or in his digital book) and flashcards. Then Latin book exercises (again at the whiteboard). History cards or watching a short history video. Neither of these need me at all. They are straight up practice and memory work. I leave lunch out and he eats while working. This leaves from 11 to 1 for me to really clean the house, pay bills, prep dinner or process food, prep study guides or curriculum, and such household chores. If those are done, then I can do more eBay work.

 

From 1-2 we do writing. This one is still very discussion, instruction heavy. Much like you were talking about with discussion then half hour of writing, come back together, work a bit more. We do this for a somewhere between a half hour to an hour. Ds is then off the hook for school. I can continue working for two hours till Dh gets home.

 

Reading happens in the evening.

 

For Ds the day goes : computer time, 8-9 Language videos, 9-10 math, 10-11 Chemistry, Break, 11:30-1 language work and history, 1-2 writing/literature.

 

For me the day goes : 7-9 work time, 9-11 instruction and puttering, 11-1 household chores, 1-2 writing instruction, 2-4 work.

 

Does that make more sense? To him it is small blocks of subjects. To me it is larger blocks of when I am needed and when I can work.

[lewelma]

thanks!  I'll give this some thought.  Not only do I need to reorganize, I also clearly need to teach some skills to make him more independent.