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MamaSprout
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We've dabbled in French since dd was a toddler. I read/ speak it at basic level, but would not impart my accent on anyone (and my vocabulary is sort of job specific- things like small talk are very difficult for me.)

 

We've done songs, videos, BrainPop.fr and the first part of First Start French, but decided to tackle Latin, so we mostly dropped French 18 months ago.

 

We are doing Latin this year (BBLL2 at a double pace) and dd is not having too many problems other than a brief snag a few weeks ago.

 

I intended to review in Latin next year (Latin Alive 1) and add in French as a subject. Dd decided to jump in with Duolingo and has cruised along nicely, but is starting to run up against her lack of French grammar.

 

Three Questions:

First, should I just throw First Start French back into the mix now? I'm explaining grammar on the fly as she works through Duolingo, but I think that defeats the purpose of Duolingo.

 

Second, Dd is roughly a fifth grader. If I look ahead long term, I'm concerned about her not having "enough" foreign language left for High School requirements. If she does French and Latin all the way through, will we hit a wall somewhere (I'm unlikely to find a French tutor locally). I've read it's pointless to try to take SAT subject tests in languages you are not native in. Is there some sort of credentialing for homeschoolers to verify language skills, or should she consider looking at a third language in high school? She seems pretty interested/ natural in languages, so it's not out of the question.

 

Third, what is the best/ most natural (phonetic) program for learning French? I love the looks of the Leo et Lea books, but I probably need something with at least a recording of a native speaker.

 

Thanks!

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Rather than the SAT, I would suggest AP tests as a method for proving language. I did AP/IB Spanish in high school, was totally crappy at it, but was convinced by my father to take the AP test anyway. I got a 4 and received 16 hours of college language credit at my university, so I never had to take it again (which was fantastic for me who hated languages). This was also a fantastic money investment--$100 test for hundreds of dollars worth of credit. Your mileage may vary--different colleges offer different credit structures, and if your child majors in a liberal arts area, more language classes may be required. But the AP language tests are absolutely used to verify language ability.

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My kid is into languages. He wants to be a polyglot. We are well into Spanish and Latin in fifth grade this year (6 years of Spanish and 4 of Latin) and he is hoping to add another two before high school is up. I am not worried about running out of language classes for high school at all. Think about it this way, if my native language is English, I had ten years of English before I even started high school and that did not count the five or more years I had heard the language. I still studied four years in high school and two more in college. Moreover, there are decades more which I could study. It is not possible to run out of language; it constantly evolves and deepens. There is literature to read, lots of work in academic writing, poetry writing, advanced conversation classes, and that is not even counting foreign exchange or transcription of texts. Moreover, we do not seem to feel a student can run out of math classes, history, musical instruments, art, or science, so why would they run out of Foriegn language classes?

 

The level of online instruction options are staggering and French is common enough that most Community Colleges will offer it. If it was Swahili, I might have a higher level of concern (I flat out told my son no on wanting to learn Cunieform). My son will very soon max out how much we can do together, but there is always more to learn. I just won't be teaching it. Right now I have asked us to put aside the Ancient Greek this year and begin Japanese in January, because I just cannot seem to wrap my brain around the Greek. If she wants to learn, let her learn. Just be honest about your personal limitations when the time comes.

 

Most universities just want some form of outside verification of language instruction. That can be outsourced classes, AP tests, CLEP tests, SAT II's, or even portfolio work in some cases. Many colleges will require either beginning at 101 or taking an entrance exam anyway (without AP tests) to level the student.

 

Getting Started with French, I believe, should be out very soon if it is not already. Many people swear by Galore Park So You Really Want To Learn series. Libraries often have vast language resources that go untapped, whether it be actual programs like Duolingo, Mango, Transparent Language or in house preschool reading (ours has Russian, Spanish, and Chinese with Vietnamese avaliable in the Big City). There are also often huge amounts of curriculum or texts in the language avaliable. YouTube is equally amazing.

 

ETA: Alexa Polidaro puts out a new Beginning French video every Wednesday and Friday on YouTube with Learn French with Alexa. It could easily be paired up to create a complete two year French program if you found a simple practice worktext/workbook.

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We did French and Latin by Skype/Facetime, which worked out beautifully. It did require a good bit of independent work from dds, but as they were in high school, this was not a problem. We had the advantage of having lived in France for a year, though, so they had a jumpstart in French. Our French tutor via Skype was fantastic if anyone needs a tutor.

DDs did the SATs and secondary school leaving exams. The French SAT and the exam lined up nicely in terms of content, and they did well on both, although I did not have the impression that the SAT was a very good measure of their ability (seemed to be easy to get perfect, but they did have near native advantages).

The Latin SAT didn't line up quite as well -- the SAT focused a lot (according to DDs) on identifying grammatical structures used, while they were accustomed to translating texts back and forth. They did well on the SAT (750) but one did extremely well on the secondary leaving exam and the other got an almost-unheard of perfect score. I personally think the leaving exam was a more challenging measure of their ability in Latin.

I personally wouldn't want to focus on the SATs at the end goal, but I am not familiar with the APs and cannot comment on those.

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My kid is into languages. He wants to be a polyglot. We are well into Spanish and Latin in fifth grade this year (6 years of Spanish and 4 of Latin) and he is hoping to add another two before high school is up. I am not worried about running out of language classes for high school at all. Think about it this way, if my native language is English, I had ten years of English before I even started high school and that did not count the five or more years I had heard the language. I still studied four years in high school and two more in college. Moreover, there are decades more which I could study. It is not possible to run out of language; it constantly evolves and deepens. There is literature to read, lots of work in academic writing, poetry writing, advanced conversation classes, and that is not even counting foreign exchange or transcription of texts. Moreover, we do not seem to feel a student can run out of math classes, history, musical instruments, art, or science, so why would they run out of Foreign language classes?

 

It is very possible around here. Even the local college only offers French 1 and 2.

 

The level of online instruction options are staggering and French is common enough that most Community Colleges will offer it. If it was Swahili, I might have a higher level of concern (I flat out told my son no on wanting to learn Cunieform). My son will very soon max out how much we can do together, but there is always more to learn. I just won't be teaching it. Right now I have asked us to put aside the Ancient Greek this year and begin Japanese in January, because I just cannot seem to wrap my brain around the Greek. If she wants to learn, let her learn. Just be honest about your personal limitations when the time comes.

 

I hadn't thought about online CC classes. My older kids say most of their college language classes are computer based, even for the face to face classes.

 

Most universities just want some form of outside verification of language instruction. That can be outsourced classes, AP tests, CLEP tests, SAT II's, or even portfolio work in some cases. Many colleges will require either beginning at 101 or taking an entrance exam anyway (without AP tests) to level the student.

 

True. My older dd took an accu-placer test and tested out of Spanish. I hadn't thought about the AP. That's really all the verification I'm concerned about. If she passes the French AP as say a Freshman, and wants to study Attic Greek (which may not count towards college admission, but she's shown interest in), she would only need to maintain her French rather than continue to take full-fledged classes. She has also shown interest in German and Russian. She's never wanted to learn Cuneiform, just Hieroglyphics.

 

Getting Started with French, I believe, should be out very soon if it is not already. December. 

 

Many people swear by Galore Park So You Really Want To Learn series Out of stock with Horrible Ray.

 

Libraries often have vast language resources that go untapped, whether it be actual programs like Duolingo, Mango, Transparent Language or in house preschool reading (ours has Russian, Spanish, and Chinese with Vietnamese available in the Big City).

 

We've exhausted both local libraries and the closest City library for the Latin and at least the children's French. I'll spin through the French materials when we are in the City next week, but I think it's pretty heavy on Dictionaries and Verb conjugation books. I was asking dd the other day if I had read her a specific children's book, and it turns out I had- in French. We haven't done much of the "Learn French in Your Car" type stuff, which zones us both out. 

 

Is there a source for kid's audiobooks in French?

 

There are also often huge amounts of curriculum or texts in the language available. YouTube is equally amazing.

 

ETA: Alexa Polidaro puts out a new Beginning French video every Wednesday and Friday on YouTube with Learn French with Alexa. It could easily be paired up to create a complete two year French program if you found a simple practice worktext/workbook. I will check it out. Any other favorite workbooks or YouTube Series? I own more advanced materials for French, but don't have much in the First Year stuff, and nothing in a Worktext (which works very well for Dd)

 

Thanks!!

 

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My dd has been self -studying French and Latin for yrs (she started French in 3rd and Latin in 6th) and Russian with a fabulous tutor for about a yr and a half.

 

For French, the first yr she used French Prep combined with with Tell Me More French. I don't know any French and she was way outpacing me, so we had to find something she could do more independently. We switched to Breaking the Barrier French and French in Action. BtB takes students through French 3/4 and says it covers what is on the SAT subject test. (I have never heard not to take the subject tests if not a native speaker. Yes, native speakers skew the curve, but universities are also aware of that.)

 

She alternated between BtB and French in Action. BtB is more grammar workbook. FiA is more immersion. FiA is the equivalent of 52 weeks of college French. She has finished all the BtB books and has not quite finished FiA. She reads simple novels in French (she has almost finished reading the Chronicles of Narnia series in French). She watches movies that we own that have French audio (yesterday she watched Frozen in French.)

 

She will take the French and Latin subject tests. We haven't decided about AP French. (I think she is planning on AP Latin next yr. ) The local university offers French as a major and I may see if they would allow her to just take their placement test and DE.

 

HTH

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Hi, I have not read all the responses. But here, my issue isn't not having enough languages left for high school, it is that there isn't enough high school left for the languages. ;) I want to be "done" with French by high school time (so he can still take a literature class) so we focus on it now. He also is learning Arabic, and progress is much slower there for the obvious reasons. we are going to add Latin next year. The goal is also for him to go to a STEM type selective high school, so that colors my planning.

 

Now for French, we did not hit a wall even though we are rural (no Saturday schools!) and I despaired at finding a secular French 2 (and beyond class).  We found that class, and he is doing it now, but the real progress is being made via his online tutor, who is a French lady in the south of France. This has worked out amazingly for us. She sends him little chapters of books (along with the audio) each week, and he has a 1 hr Skype session weekly. We will continue with her for as long as she is willing to continue with us, for sure.

We did Galore Park's SYRWTLF before the current set up. I continue using that in the gaps (holidays, summer, etc.) because it is a great program.

ETA. In the interest of full disclosure, I am not sure it is possible to be "done" with a language in the 3 years we have left, though we study a little everyday. I'm planning on an exchange or other immersion experience between now and high school.

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Ha! I know you can't "run out" of language to learn in real life.

 

I'm concerned about the not-so-real world of credit for high school. :huh: Our high school options are either homeschool, an hour + away, or online. If we homeschool, that's easy... I can assign credit for language work completed in junior high school if I can document it. The other options are a bit fuzzy as to how it would all shake out.

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"My kid is into languages. He wants to be a polyglot. We are well into Spanish and Latin in fifth grade this year (6 years of Spanish and 4 of Latin) and he is hoping to add another two before high school is up. I am not worried about running out of language classes for high school at all. Think about it this way, if my native language is English, I had ten years of English before I even started high school and that did not count the five or more years I had heard the language. I still studied four years in high school and two more in college. Moreover, there are decades more which I could study. It is not possible to run out of language; it constantly evolves and deepens. There is literature to read, lots of work in academic writing, poetry writing, advanced conversation classes, and that is not even counting foreign exchange or transcription of texts. Moreover, we do not seem to feel a student can run out of math classes, history, musical instruments, art, or science, so why would they run out of Foreign language classes?

 

It is very possible around here. Even the local college only offers French 1 and 2."

 

just wanted to agree with this--I was very frustrated even trying to find a secular French 2 class which my DS is taking now. Where are all the French 3, 4, and beyond? My local community college does not even offer French--and there are no advanced classes in the language they do offer (more like "XYZ language and culture"). The CC over 1 hour away offers advanced French classes on a case by case basis  ("independent study"). So it is not easy, but  there are options, in that you can set goals for outside validation and then work with a tutor, camps like the Minnesota ones, etc. It definitely requires more organization and work on the part of the parent, in my experience.

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 I decided to "shop my bookshelves" this morning, as I'm much more comfortable plunging forward with French.

 

Among my bits and pieces of French I found a few things that will compliment Duolingo pretty well. First Start French lessons actually sort of line up with Duolingo, so I'll print the free quizes off of the website (firststartfrench.com) and have her work through the quizes for the lessons she already finished and then finish off the rest of the workbook. It makes a better workbook for Duolingo than a stand-alone program. It also makes a lot more sense to her now that she's had Latin.

 

I have Rosetta Stone Homeschool Edition, which I bought a few years ago. While the software isn't very good, there's a decent .pdf of 3 levels of workbooks included that should be reasonable complements to Duolingo after she finishes the First Start book. At least it won't be a total waste of money :001_rolleyes:

 

I also found a few kiddy magazines/ workbooks I forgot I had picked up in France that look useful. I also have odds and ends of used booksale textbooks, etc.

 

I think we could do a year or so of the above mash up and then I can look around and see what to do next- Maybe Breaking the Barrier or a high school online class.

 

Thank-you!

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Second, Dd is roughly a fifth grader. If I look ahead long term, I'm concerned about her not having "enough" foreign language left for High School requirements. If she does French and Latin all the way through, will we hit a wall somewhere (I'm unlikely to find a French tutor locally). I've read it's pointless to try to take SAT subject tests in languages you are not native in. Is there some sort of credentialing for homeschoolers to verify language skills, or should she consider looking at a third language in high school? She seems pretty interested/ natural in languages, so it's not out of the question.

 

 

First, it's not true that you need to be a native speaker to do well on SAT subject tests.  All six of my kids scored 750-800 on both French and German.  They took them the same year they took the AP exams.

 

We also started foreign language (French and German) very young and worried some about "running out" of language classes.  Some of my dc took language APs in 8th grade.  Since we only put classes taken in grades 9-12 on their transcript, that meant this language wouldn't even be covered.  What we did was invent fun post-AP classes, like French Cinema.  We also had them start a third foreign language (their choice) in high school.

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When I mentioned Community College, I was not meaning it as the only resource. Community College for us is over 2 hours each way and only has 100 and 200 level classes as well in all their languages. At 14, however, that is not something off the table for a kid who started in fifth grade. It provides outside validation and credit while making the student responsible to another. Two years of college Foriegn language equates to all four high school years. You then have AP and Independent study, Foriegn exchange, or advanced literature studies. That coukd easily be all your high school years.

 

Originally, I was more referring to the gigantic level of online resources avaliable. I only have about 15 minutes before I have to pick my husband up, but here are the few I gathered:

 

Lesson one from Learn French with Alexa on YouTube. From here you can get to her page and see all the videos. New ones come out twice a week.

 

 

FRENCH FROM BEGINNERS TO ADVANCED is another YouTube channel which has much shorter videos coving more specific subjects. They offer Learn French through Timelapses http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZNV0gmRjgU-u6nYtR7oKxQUJJrCjR6ZP

As well as 18 units of Learn French with Vincent. Each unit is broken into mini lessons with about 14 lessons a unit. The videos are short, but dense. Here is the playlist for Unit 1. From there you can get back to all the others.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZNV0gmRjgU9gyV1OPopsKRQsf1jcKQAI

 

BBC has an entire section of their webspace dedicated to learning French. There are websites, games, French radio, movies, news broadcasting, tests, lessons, activities, and stacks of stuff even for classroom school usage ranging in ages from primary up to high school and adult.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/french/

 

BJU does French online distance learning with French years 1-3

http://www.bjupresshomeschool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_Foreign-Language____559601_559601_Y

 

Landry Academy does French through AP and even does trips to France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/french/

 

Brigham Young University also offers high school online Independent Study French. They have levels from beginner all the way through very advanced. They even offer French camp for kids 14-18 which is considered a full credit.

http://is.byu.edu/site/about/frenchcamp.byu.edu

 

Dartmouth does Foriegn exchange for high school and middle school extremely cheaply and covers everything including airfare as long as you can get to the East Coast. Duke does similar summer camp stuff with language immersion.

 

My point is, the options are very open. This is not a subject where your daughter goes to a school each day and sits in a class, but more one where she is connecting digitally with tutors and teachers. These are just the French ones. If you wanted to consider Latin as well, there are three times as many.

 

We use the digital iBooks version of Breaking the Barrier for Spanish. All of their resources go through AP level. With the iBook everything is embedded - self checking exercises, audio files, flashcards, study cards, the works. Total price $15 per book. Each book is a full year. Test packets are $20 and come with answers.

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I wondered what was included in the Breaking the Barrier iBook. That is a good deal. That might be plenty for us for the time being.

 

I'm less worried about Latin b/c I feel like it is a tool for learning other languages, and Lone Pine or Lukieon would cover whatever needs we would have there if we want a class.

 

For French, I like the idea of starting high school classes/ programs in middle school. I would not be surprised if she wanted to move into a third language in high school, or possibly drop Latin at some point.

 

She has sort of thrown me off a little with picking French back up. She's done it before, but didn't really seem ready to move beyond children's materials. She is now. I just need to catch up.

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Yes, they do; there's a list of American test centres on their site (WTM doesn't let me paste a link any more, which I don't understand...). I'll type out the link and see if that works:

http://www.french-exam.com/2013/06/18/where-to-take-your-delf-dalf-exam-in-united-states-of-america/

 

Darn. That doesn't seem to have worked. Well, Google "DELF DALF USA" and you should see one of the first results being a page that says, "where to take your DELF/DALF exam in the USA". Sorry I'm not better at linking!

 

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Yes, they do; there's a list of American test centres on their site (WTM doesn't let me paste a link any more, which I don't understand...). I'll type out the link and see if that works:

http://www.french-exam.com/2013/06/18/where-to-take-your-delf-dalf-exam-in-united-states-of-america/

 

Darn. That doesn't seem to have worked. Well, Google "DELF DALF USA" and you should see one of the first results being a page that says, "where to take your DELF/DALF exam in the USA". Sorry I'm not better at linking!

Thank you for sharing this info. It took a VERY long time for me to find a site that actually gave me any real info, but I think I finally have some. We actually have an instate charter less than 25 mins from our house. I can't find any info about them at all other than contact info. I'll let dd follow through with that.

 

I did find this link that others might like to know about:

http://alliance-us.org/culturetheque-us/

 

On our local charter's page, student memberships were only something like $20.

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