Singapore 6A Standards Is it a Must prior to Pre-Algebra

[drum1019]

DD 11 has used Singapore all the way through 5B, now we are taking a break and reviewing basic concepts using the Key To Series, Zaccarro's series, IP/CWP and Process Skills book. For those who have used 6A what are the benefits? Is it a must before pre-algebra?

 

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Lucy the Valiant]

We're on the last 2-3 lessons of 6A right now, and I would classify it as a solid, in-depth review of SM 1-5. It was a good fit for us, but I wouldn't classify it as NECESSARY before pre-algebra; we are going to finish 6B (probably in a couple of months), and then use 1 more rock-solid review book before pre-a.

 

$.02

[drum1019]

Thank you!!!!

[redsquirrel]

Lots of people consider SM 6a&6b as their pre-Algebra course. It isn't unheard of for students to go from SM 6a&6b to algebra. Some students skip 6a&6b and are able to go right into algebra after completing SM 5a&5b.

[boscopup]

My son went from 5B to AoPS Prealgebra. I don't regret not doing 6A/B. Anything that he needed more practice in wasn't really practiced that heavily in 6 anyway, so I pulled out Dolciani Prealgebra for that practice. He could have easily whipped through Dolciani immediately after 5B.

[texasmama]

My son went from 5B to AoPS Prealgebra. I don't regret not doing 6A/B. Anything that he needed more practice in wasn't really practiced that heavily in 6 anyway, so I pulled out Dolciani Prealgebra for that practice. He could have easily whipped through Dolciani immediately after 5B.

This, except we went through some Keys to Algebra the summer prior to starting AoPS pre-A.

[redsquirrel]

and, just to present many options, we did SM from Earlybird through 6b, with some Miquon, LoF, cuisinaire and MEP thrown in, and then did AoPS pre-Algebra in 7th and AoPS Algebra in 8th.

[Gil]

We used Math Mammoth, not Singapore PM, but we did the 6th grade year--we already had it and I couldn't find a reason to not do it.

 

However, at 6B, the boys were pretty ready for Algebra. We started Keys to Algebra along with MM and it worked out just fine.

[MamaSprout]

For a different spin, we finished SM 5a/b and skipped SM 6a/b. Instead, we are doing MM 6a/6b/7a and probably MM7b. I had MM 6 already and wanted a different perspective for 6th grade math. We are compacting and testing through, but has been very worthwhile so far.

 

 

 

 

[Lori D.]

The focus of 6a/b is word problems and problem-solving. If your student is solid there, you could either skip 6a/b, or us it as supplement from a different perspective from whatever your new "spine" math is.

 

DS#1 went all the way through Singapore Primary to the end of 6a/b, and then went on to Singapore's NEM1. I would not have wanted to jump straight to NEM1 from Singapore Primary 5a/b; NEM1 required some stout problem-solving. :)

 

DS#2 used parts of Singapore Primary 4a/b, 5a/b, and 6a/b as supplement to MUS. I was especially glad he used the 6a/b, as the MUS was "lite" on word problems and problem-solving.

 

BEST of luck, as you move into the higher maths! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[SevenDaisies]

The focus of 6a/b is word problems and problem-solving. If your student is solid there, you could either skip 6a/b, or us it as supplement from a different perspective from whatever your new "spine" math is.

 

DS#1 went all the way through Singapore Primary to the end of 6a/b, and then went on to Singapore's NEM1. I would not have wanted to jump straight to NEM1 from Singapore Primary 5a/b; NEM1 required some stout problem-solving. :)

 

DS#2 used parts of Singapore Primary 4a/b, 5a/b, and 6a/b as supplement to MUS. I was especially glad he used the 6a/b, as the MUS was "lite" on word problems and problem-solving.

 

BEST of luck, as you move into the higher maths! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Where did you go after NEM 1? Did you find NEM easy to use? We are currently using 5A/B and wondering where to go from here. NEM looks a bit less user friendly. AOPS would not be a good fit for dd. She does quite well with math, but doesn't love it enough for something like AOPS. Debating about doing 6A/B then NEM 1 or skipping straight to something like Dolciani.

 

ETA: or could I go straight from 6A/B to Foerster's?

[Momling]

ETA: or could I go straight from 6A/B to Foerster's?

We went from SM6b (4th grade) to Galore Park Book 2(5th grade) to GP book 3 (6th grade) to Foersters (7th grade). We also did Keys to, HOE, Zaccaro, CWP 5,6 etc... I can not imagine jumping straight from SM to Foersters in one go. I'd definitely recommend at least a year of pre-algebra.

[EKS]

We moved on to a standard prealgebra (Derek Owens) course after 6A.  My son was actually ready for Algebra I in terms of conceptual understanding at that point but was not willing to do all of the writing required.

[jennynd]

My older used 6a/6b and Ip /CWP added key to algebra as our pre algebra, we than moved to Aops algebra with no problem. Some ip6 questions are really tough

[Lori D.]

Where did you go after NEM 1?

 

We got about halfway through NEM1, then set it aside and did a "skim review" of Saxon Algebra 1/2 to finish out that year, and then moved on to Jacobs Algebra, and Jacobs Geometry. Both were an excellent fit for DS, and he really enjoyed both.

 

 

Did you find NEM easy to use? We are currently using 5A/B and wondering where to go from here. NEM looks a bit less user friendly. 

 

No, due to the lack of teacher support material and me not being a natural math teacher, it was a lot of work for me to use NEM1. As you say, it was less user-friendly, at least for me. I think a parent who is a natural math teacher would be fine with it. I can read and get the explanations and don't have a problem teaching the math, but for the higher maths, without some detailed teacher support, it becomes very time-consuming and requires a lot of brain work from me. ;)

 

DS is very naturally math-minded, and quite frequently just worked until he figured it out himself. But I did not see it getting any easier to teach, and I really felt Jacobs would be a good match for DS -- and it was; he loved both the Algebra and Geometry. So, it worked well for us to switch out of Singapore.

 

There is another, slightly less rigorous Singapore program for the higher maths: Discovering Mathematics (DM) series. Here's a past thread about it: "Singapore's Discovering Mathematics and US placement".

 

Side note: NEM is an integrated program with a rough scope and sequence as follows (with DM being similar):

NEM1 = pre-algebra, algebra 1, a little geometry

NEM 2 = algebra 1, most of  geometry 

NEM 3 = algebra II, trig

NEM 4 = advanced math, review

 

 

… We are currently using 5A/B and wondering where to go from here. NEM looks a bit less user friendly. AOPS would not be a good fit for dd… Debating about doing 6A/B then NEM 1 or skipping straight to something like Dolciani.

 

 

Hard to advise, not knowing your student and abilities. :) But, some options might be:

- continue through Singapore 6A/B

- go through Keys to Algebra to solidify pre-algebra skills and get a taste of Algebra before going into a full Algebra program

 

No personal experience with Dolciani, but from the experiences of others on this board, my understanding is that it is the most rigorous of all the older, traditional textbook programs, with AoPS being the rigorous, newer, problem-solving based algebra program.

 

 

ETA: or could I go straight from 6A/B to Foerster's?

 

Not personally familiar with Foerster's Algebra 1 to know whether or not that is a direct step, but I know many people on this Board go straight to an Algebra 1 program when they complete either Singapore 6A/B or even right after 5A/B.

 

From reviews by people on this board, it sounds like Foerster's Algebra 1 is a very solid program. You might also look at Lial's Algebra -- another very straight-forward, traditional, no frills program that is a good alternative for a lot of students who do not enjoy wrestling with something like AoPS.

 

I understand that people are much happier with Foerster's Algebra 1 and less happy with the Algebra 2. We used Foerster's Algebra 2/Trig after completing Jacobs' Algebra 1 and Geometry. Foerster's Algebra 2 was just "okay". Yes, it was probably the closest thing we could find to the style of Jacobs (which we loved). And, it encourages problem-solving. But, not as much teaching support as would have been helpful. There is now a home study series of tutorials that came out after we used the Algebra 2, so that probably would have helped us.

 

[SevenDaisies]

 

We got about halfway through NEM1, then set it aside and did a "skim review" of Saxon Algebra 1/2 to finish out that year, and then moved on to Jacobs Algebra, and Jacobs Geometry. Both were an excellent fit for DS, and he really enjoyed both.

 

 

 

No, due to the lack of teacher support material and me not being a natural math teacher, it was a lot of work for me to use NEM1. As you say, it was less user-friendly, at least for me. I think a parent who is a natural math teacher would be fine with it. I can read and get the explanations and don't have a problem teaching the math, but for the higher maths, without some detailed teacher support, it becomes very time-consuming and requires a lot of brain work from me. ;)

 

DS is very naturally math-minded, and quite frequently just worked until he figured it out himself. But I did not see it getting any easier to teach, and I really felt Jacobs would be a good match for DS -- and it was; he loved both the Algebra and Geometry. So, it worked well for us to switch out of Singapore.

 

There is another, slightly less rigorous Singapore program for the higher maths: Discovering Mathematics (DM) series. Here's a past thread about it: "Singapore's Discovering Mathematics and US placement".

 

Side note: NEM is an integrated program with a rough scope and sequence as follows (with DM being similar):

NEM1 = pre-algebra, algebra 1, a little geometry

NEM 2 = algebra 1, most of  geometry 

NEM 3 = algebra II, trig

NEM 4 = advanced math, review

 

 

 

Hard to advise, not knowing your student and abilities. :) But, some options might be:

- continue through Singapore 6A/B

- go through Keys to Algebra to solidify pre-algebra skills and get a taste of Algebra before going into a full Algebra program

 

No personal experience with Dolciani, but from the experiences of others on this board, my understanding is that it is the most rigorous of all the older, traditional textbook programs, with AoPS being the rigorous, newer, problem-solving based algebra program.

 

 

Not personally familiar with Foerster's Algebra 1 to know whether or not that is a direct step, but I know many people on this Board go straight to an Algebra 1 program when they complete either Singapore 6A/B or even right after 5A/B.

 

From reviews by people on this board, it sounds like Foerster's Algebra 1 is a very solid program. You might also look at Lial's Algebra -- another very straight-forward, traditional, no frills program that is a good alternative for a lot of students who do not enjoy wrestling with something like AoPS.

 

I understand that people are much happier with Foerster's Algebra 1 and less happy with the Algebra 2. We used Foerster's Algebra 2/Trig after completing Jacobs' Algebra 1 and Geometry. Foerster's Algebra 2 was just "okay". Yes, it was probably the closest thing we could find to the style of Jacobs (which we loved). And, it encourages problem-solving. But, not as much teaching support as would have been helpful. There is now a home study series of tutorials that came out after we used the Algebra 2, so that probably would have helped us.

 

Thanks for all the information. I am thinking I will just stick with 6A/B for next year. I had heard that you could go straight from 6B to Algebra, but I suppose we will wait and see how she is when we finish 6B. I did go ahead and order a copy of Dociani so I could review it in the meantime. I haven't heard much about Keys to Algebra, so I will have to check that out. I have time for those - I mainly needed figure out what I should order for next year.

 

I'd heard good things about Jacob's. Kolbe used to use Jacob's, but I think it is going out of print so they are switching to Foerster's. I like using Kolbe's tests, so it makes it easy when my choices line up with theirs.

 

Thanks to everyone else who chimed in. We've always used Singapore and I suddenly realized I didn't know what I was doing next year.

 

[madteaparty]

For a different spin, we finished SM 5a/b and skipped SM 6a/b. Instead, we are doing MM 6a/6b/7a and probably MM7b. I had MM 6 already and wanted a different perspective for 6th grade math. We are compacting and testing through, but has been very worthwhile so far.

And another spin on this, we finished 5b and a couple of word problem books, then did some MM fractions, decimals and a couple of chapters in 6a, and are now almost done with 7a. We will round out prealgebra with some Lials (since 7b is not out yet--if it were, I'd use that) and move on to Forrester algebra with a possible detour into AOPS prealgebra 2 class. I want to spend longer in pre-a but DS may go overseas (and into a local school, at grade level) next fall so there will be some deceleration then, I imagine.

[boscopup]

I'd heard good things about Jacob's. Kolbe used to use Jacob's, but I think it is going out of print so they are switching to Foerster's. I like using Kolbe's tests, so it makes it easy when my choices line up with theirs.

 

Jacobs has been out of print for a while now. It's one of the pricier used old textbooks, though it's still cheaper than many popular new homeschool math programs. I paid $30 for the book and solution manual together, but that was a really great deal. I think it probably runs more like $50-60 now. They do have a test packet available for $20-30 (depending on if you get it used or new).

 

Foerster is super easy to find used for cheap. I paid $10 locally. I don't know about the TM for that, as I haven't looked for it.

 

Dolciani Algebra would also be easy to find used for cheap, similar to Foerster prices.

 

Yes, I have all 3. :D I plan to use Jacobs because my son will be 10 when he starts it. For an older child, I'd probably go with Foerster. The Dolciani is good also... My DH used it in 6th grade himself. :) Dolciani is "drill and kill". I use the Prealgebra when my son needs a little extra practice on a basic topic that he's struggling with in AoPS. Then he can go back over to AoPS and problem solve easily. I paid $6 shipped for the Prealgebra book, so it was worth getting!

 

 

[skimomma]

We are doing Singapore 6A/6B this year.  My dd is good at math but not always careful and sometime struggles with problems that require a lot of thought and/or steps so I figured it wouldn't hurt to spend a year on review and strengthening weaker skills.  We plan to go on to AoPS.  My tentative plan is to have her take the AoPS placement tests for both pre-algebra and algebra.  If it looks like she could go right to algebra, I think we will try it but take it VERY slow and spread it out over two years.  If not, we will just go with pre-algebra.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sorry to hijack, but is Standards 6a/b much different than PM?  I thought PM 6a/b was so lame I didn't bother with it.  I don't think it was very good preparation for algebra.  I'm currently using Standards (4a).  It does seem to have more topics not covered in PM.

 

 

[MinivanMom]

Sorry to hijack, but is Standards 6a/b much different than PM?  I thought PM 6a/b was so lame I didn't bother with it.  I don't think it was very good preparation for algebra.  I'm currently using Standards (4a).  It does seem to have more topics not covered in PM.

 

Yes, there are many concepts covered in Standards 6a/b that are not touched on in PM. Instead of jumping straight into Pre-Algebra after PM 5b, I had my oldest jump sideways into Standards 5b (not the whole book, just the sections that were missing from PM 5b) and then I had her complete Standards 6a/b. I'm very glad we did this, even though it meant delaying Pre-Algebra.

 

This was not my original plan. Based on the standard advice given here, I had planned to have her go directly from PM 5b to AOPS Pre-Algebra. I'm very glad I had a chance to look over both the Standards and PM 6a/b books before we did this. There were some important concepts she would have missed without going through Standards 6a/b. For ds9, I'm going to switch him from PM to Standards when he starts 5b and then have him complete both 6a/b like his sister.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes, there are many concepts covered in Standards 6a/b that are not touched on in PM. Instead of jumping straight into Pre-Algebra after PM 5b, I had my oldest jump sideways into Standards 5b (not the whole book, just the sections that were missing from PM 5b) and then I had her complete Standards 6a/b. I'm very glad we did this, even though it meant delaying Pre-Algebra.

 

This was not my original plan. Based on the standard advice given here, I had planned to have her go directly from PM 5b to AOPS Pre-Algebra. I'm very glad I had a chance to look over both the Standards and PM 6a/b books before we did this. There were some important concepts she would have missed without going through Standards 6a/b. For ds9, I'm going to switch him from PM to Standards when he starts 5b and then have him complete both 6a/b like his sister.

 

 

I used MIF up until 3b.  I was hoping to be able to stick with it since it goes up to 8b.  I bought 4a and there was nothing new in it.  It seemed completely lame to me.  So that's when I switched to Standards.

 

I probably won't use AoPS with second child though.  I think I'll use Saxon, but no clue where to go from SM to that.

 

I guess I'll figure it out.  I would have loved to find one curriculum from K to 12 for math, but I haven't found that yet.

 

[Roadrunner]

There were some important concepts she would have missed without going through Standards 6a/b. For ds9, I'm going to switch him from PM to Standards when he starts 5b and then have him complete both 6a/b like his sister.

 

I am not questioning you, but just wondering if you can name those concepts.

We made a successful transition from 5b to preA, but I should mention that we also did all the beast and JA. I am wondering if those concepts can be learned through supplementary material without having to do the entire year 6. I could see how many kids can outgrow SM primary.

[MinivanMom]

I am not questioning you, but just wondering if you can name those concepts.

We made a successful transition from 5b to preA, but I should mention that we also did all the beast and JA. I am wondering if those concepts can be learned through supplementary material without having to do the entire year 6. I could see how many kids can outgrow SM primary.

 

We haven't used beast or JA (nor have I seen them in person) so I can't comment on what they cover compared to Sing Standards 6a/b. It's entirely possible that you may have covered some of those concepts in beast or JA or just at some point in time if your kid is the type to play around with math for fun. The fact that he made a successful transition to preA is proof of that.

 

My dd had used only Sing PM through 5B. She had never used supplementary materials (other than reading through the first two Danica McKellar books), and she isn't the type to do math for fun on her own. By the time she reached 5B, I did feel like there were some significant things that hadn't been covered yet that I felt should be touched on before starting pre-algebra. The biggies for me were circles (including radius, circum, area, pi, etc), negative numbers, and basic data analysis (mean, median, mode). After looking at both Sing PM 6a/b & Standards 6a/b, I found there was a lot more she had not covered, so I backed her up to repeat parts of 5b using Standards before having her go through Standards 6a/b.

 

So if the question is whether there is a difference between what is covered in 6a/b in PM versus Standards, I did feel like there was a significant enough difference in what was covered to switch at 5b. I know I've seen a chart online that outlines the differences between PM and Standards concept by concept, but I'm having trouble finding it right now.

 

[Julie of KY]

My oldest went from SM 5b to AoPS Algebra (math kid). My second went from 5b to AoPS Prealgebra.

[Arcadia]

For SM6, if you have already bought it, it is worth doing it. If not you can always skip and go slow on PreAlgebra.

I have a kid that finish SM6A&B in less than 2 months and another kid that ask to skip and I allowed him. Both are already good at exponents and order of operations before starting PreAlgebra just to give you the context.

 

I know I've seen a chart online that outlines the differences between PM and Standards concept by concept, but I'm having trouble finding it right now.

 

https://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/SSUSandSTD2009.pdf

[Momof3littles]

We did Singapore through 5a/5b (standards), CWP 5, and some side detours including: LoF fractions, decimals and percents, (edited to add: and LoF physics), and then prealgebra with bio.  I don't like LoF but DS1 needed some variety and likes Fred overall.  I think somewhere around 5a we also did a detour and did cryptology on Khan, so that addressed some of the probability, etc.

 

From there we entered AOPs prealgebra, and DS1 (10) seems to be humming along with it slowly but surely.  This year has been a big transition into a more mature format of textbook, and DS1, despite reminders for the last year or two, has somewhat struggled with organizing his work, showing his work consistently, etc. But he's pretty much there now, thankfully.

[Roadrunner]

By the time she reached 5B, I did feel like there were some significant things that hadn't been covered yet that I felt should be touched on before starting pre-algebra. The biggies for me were circles (including radius, circum, area, pi, etc), negative numbers, and basic data analysis (mean, median, mode). After looking at both Sing PM 6a/b & Standards 6a/b, I found there was a lot more she had not covered, so I backed her up to repeat parts of 5b using Standards before having her go through Standards 6a/b.

 

So if the question is whether there is a difference between what is covered in 6a/b in PM versus Standards, I did feel like there was a significant enough difference in what was covered to switch at 5b. I know I've seen a chart online that outlines the differences between PM and Standards concept by concept, but I'm having trouble finding it right now.

 

You are right. We covered negatives as well as mean, median, and mode in standards. We haven't done circles though. I figured that had to be at least one new topic in the entire year with preA. :)

It does seem like standards covers more earlier.