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What to do for youngster after RSM


Guest avidphotog7
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Guest avidphotog7

Question: I’d like to hear advice / testimonials on what to do between finishing Right Start Math (RSM) and starting algebra.

 

Background:

 

We just finished Right Start Math level D with our son.  We plan to take a month off of “book curriculum†to do some outside math activities, and then we’ll start level E in December. Even though he HATED the geometry components of level C (he still lacked the fine motor skills necessary for t-square and triangle work) it became his favorite part of level D.  With that, I figure that we’ll probably supplement RSM level E with the RSM geometry book in order to keep him fully engaged.

 

The trouble is, he’s seven; and a very immature seven at that.  I’m in no hurry to finish math at the age of (fill in the blank) and so we’ve started to supplement with things like Singapore CWP and Lego robotics to slow things down a bit and also to round out his foundation.  But I am doubtful as to how long I will be able to tread water post-RSM before I need to move on to something more formal. I tried once before to keep him in a holding pattern, and after two weeks of difficult lessons (difficult because he wasn't engaged) he finally told me that he didn't like math anymore because it was always the same thing (addition, subtraction, and multiplication).  He wanted new operations (which I found hilarious), and more fractions.  That experience helped me understand the extent to which I could be doing him a disservice just because I think we’re “moving too fast.†Granted, we probably have until summer before we hit the next fork in the road… but it’s already starting to stress me (I’d like to know what’s next so that I can plan towards it), so here I am.

 

It just seems absurd for us to do anything with the word algebra in it anytime soon (even if you affix the word pre to it).  But for the life of me, I can't find peace about what path to take with him post RSM E.

 

I know that the big knock on RSM is that it is teacher & time intensive; but ironically enough (and for my own selfish reasons) that’s the one component that I’m not willing to give up.  Plus, at his age, I doubt he’d get what he needs (conceptually) if his math was more independent.  That’s why I don’t think that the RSM recommended Video Text will be the solution for us.  Plus, I teach math for a living.  It seems absurd for me to outsource it to a video for my children while still teaching other people’s kids face to face.

 

So that’s my dilemma.  I’m willing to bet that someone else has been in this or a similar situation.  So, hear my scream: Help! What did you do?

 

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We've done Math Mammoth 1-6, the Keys to... series and Algebra Readiness Made Easy. We've also done a quick pass through Algebra 1 using an older, more succinct textbook and it went just fine. If you are happy to put off algebra, then I would look into other engaging mathematics. If I can get myself organized then here is what we're using for math in 2015.

 

By Ed  Zacarro:

Elementary  Challenge Math

Upper Elem Challenge Math

Challenge Math

Becoming a Problem Solving Genuis
Real World Algebra

 

By Glenn Ellison

Hard Math for Elementary + Workbook

 

By Jack Hope

Mental Math for the Primary Grades
Mental Math for the Middle Grades
Mental Math in Jr. High

 

 

By Charan Langston

The Verbal Math Lesson
The Verbal Math Lesson Book 2

The Verbal Math Lesson Book 3

 

We probably wont do both mental math series, but we will be doing more work on Mental calculation and I want the boys to stay sharp on it. 

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Guest avidphotog7

Thanks for your replies.  Gil, you mentioned a number of resources that I've never heard of; and so I've already started doing my homework (thank you!).  Crimson Wife, I never heard of Beast Academy until the most recent Teach Them Diligently Homeschool conference here in SC (it was at the Rainbow Resource table) and I have to admit that I brushed it off just because of the comic-book look to it.  But it keeps coming up in various forums that I read, and so it sounds like I need to get over myself and do some investigation.  Thanks for that nudge.

 

As it turns out, someone else started a thread just before this one addressing an almost identical issue ("For your young, mathy kids, what math do you do from level 6 on?").  I've caught up on that thread this morning and, if nothing else, the comments there are making me less apprehensive about diving into (pre) algebra sooner than I anticipated.  Others mentioned doing so with their 7 and 8 year olds, and it certainly sounds like no one died as a result.  They also mentioned a number of other resources that I'd either never heard of (Art of Problem Solving, for example) or didn't consider an option for my situation (Mammoth Math).  So I'm thankful.  Hopefully as I look into all of these things and continue to read the forums, something will click and we'll finally gain peace over one direction or another.  Thanks again.

 

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Thanks for your replies.  Gil, you mentioned a number of resources that I've never heard of; and so I've already started doing my homework (thank you!).

You're welcome, I hope you find something that you like. Also, check your local libraries for the books first or see if you can get something on inter-library loan so that you can conserve cost as much as possible.

 

As it turns out, someone else started a thread just before this one addressing an almost identical issue ("For your young, mathy kids, what math do you do from level 6 on?"). There are so, so, so many threads about math, most of which are tremendously helpful! If you have the time, then I would go through the archives of this board and even the K-8 board. All you have to do is perform a board search. Or go to the top of the page, right beneath the "Start a New Topic" thread there is a darker blue bar, on that bar you can sort the forum posts by Recently update, Number of views, Number of replies, etc...So you can easily skim through the "most popular" threads and find all sorts of help and guidance in math/science/whathaveyou.

 

I've caught up on that thread this morning and, if nothing else, the comments there are making me less apprehensive about diving into (pre) algebra sooner than I anticipated.  Others mentioned doing so with their 7 and 8 year olds, and it certainly sounds like no one died as a result. 

Yeah, I think that kids doing Algebra when they are ready, irrespective of age is something that 1) isn't a big deal and 2) be encouraged.

Algebra is a tool, a very simple one. The natural extension of arithmetic with real numbers.

They also mentioned a number of other resources that I'd either never heard of (Art of Problem Solving, for example) or didn't consider an option for my situation (Mammoth Math).  So I'm thankful.  Hopefully as I look into all of these things and continue to read the forums, something will click and we'll finally gain peace over one direction or another.  Thanks again.

 

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Avid, most people coming out of RS are going into 5th grade math, plus or minus, depending on the maturity of the child.  I've always thought Dr. Cotter's suggestion that they were ready to go directly into pre-algebra a bit inflated.   ;)

 

There's really no need to hold him back, mercy.  It's clearly a gift for him, so feed it.  What is there to be ashamed of?  There are people who do algebra 1 in 9th grade and people who do calculus.  There's nothing to be ashamed of.  You're not going to max out your ability to help him.  Worst that happens is you max out what *you* personally can teach him and you find him a tutor.   :)

 

The AOPS people wrote Beast Academy, so that's why it's being suggested for your situation.  If you don't find you like BA itself, at least go look at the Math Olympiad books they recommend.  They'll add good thought process to your math time and he's plenty ready for them.  

 

He also sounds like he's ready for HOE (Hands-On Equations).  

 

There's an article on the AOPS site about not making the goal merely forward but diversifying the journey with geometry, statistics, more complex problem solving, etc.  It sounds like you're already perceiving this and trying to do it.  AOPS has books, online classes, etc. to help you also.  You don't have to keep him from going forward.  Just continue to give him the variety.  Have you done any living math books yet?  He might be ready for books like A Gebra Named Al.

 

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Guest avidphotog7

I've always thought Dr. Cotter's suggestion that they were ready to go directly into pre-algebra a bit inflated.

 

Thanks.  It helps to hear that.  I'm still trying to understand the elementary school progression, and that may be the exact reason why I haven't felt peace about jumping to VideoTexts right after RSM level E ... the progression just doesn't seem quite right.

 

 It's clearly a gift for him, so feed it.  What is there to be ashamed of?  

 

In most homeschool circles, I think we all have our fair share of parents who think that their child is an unadulterated genius. Everyone’s 3-year-old is so advanced… and incredible… and blah blah blah (insert eye roll here).  And so I’ve become cynical about such things, to the point where I almost refuse to talk about our kids in public... because to become that parent that I just wrote about would be to live a nightmare.  But, as I said earlier, I’ve finally gotten to where I realized I’d be doing them a disservice to continue down that path... especially when it comes to seeking advice. So here I am. 

 

Have you done any living math books yet?

 

No, but I googled it after reading your post  :001_smile: 

 

He also sounds like he's ready for HOE (Hands-On Equations).  

 

I googled that, too. I don't think that one would go over too well with him.  Anything too manipulative heavy, and he gets insulted (yes, we're working on humility, too). 

 

 AOPS people wrote Beast Academy, so that's why it's being suggested for your situation.

 

You guys have definitely piqued my interest in it. Thanks again for that, OhElizabeth, and all the other insight and suggestions you provided.  The book you mentioned (A Gebra Named Al) sounds like a good one to put on our shelf for next summer (right after we finish RSM E)  It's not in our local public library, but it is on Amazon for $4, used, free shipping.  Hard to top that.  Thanks again.

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Many of the kids here started PreAlgebra-ish stuff around 7.  If I had it to do over again, I would have jumped right into PreA with AoPS and gone very, very slowly.  Lots of fun little bits here and there derailing us from the formal text.  I did my son a serious disservice by keeping him in a holding pattern till I finally broke down at 8 and started the PreA book.  However, the PreA of AoPS is a whole lot more than just a standard PreA text.  It has been pretty great.  We also diverged for a bit into AoPS Counting and Probability (at 8.5 or 9ish) with great success.

 

Just go slow, but don't do a holding pattern.  You can find yourself actually giving your son the wrong ideas about math (it sucks!) or about themselves (I'm so awesome I do not need to really think).  Not saying that is going to happen, but the likelihood is high.

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Guest avidphotog7

Great testimony, EndofOrdinary.  Thank you for letting me learn from your experiences. I really appreciate your perspective.  By the way...

 

> I'm so awesome I do not need to really think

 

Ha! That was hilarious.  And yes, I've already been there.  In fact, I'm still trying to break him out of the habit of saying "oh that's easy" before he answers every question I ask him.  As I said earlier, we're still working on humility with him (especially in math). Thanks again.

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AoPS caused a rather nice "Meltdown year" because it is designed to be hard. It was the year of learning "Perhaps I am not so awesome that I do not need to think, because I am really having to think!" I am now glad we did it, but Man! It was a doozy!

 

Good Luck with your Awesome Non-Thinking Genius Seven Year Old as well :)

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Another vote for Beast Academy. Don't be afraid to skip over easy bits and condense it as you see fit. If he sails through it, consider preA. Not in my wildest dream would I think my son would be in preA in fourth grade. I can't tell you how much stalling I have done with yet another workbook. So glad we finally took a jump. It has been the no sweat experience. Just encouraging you a bit, but do try Beast first. :)

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He also sounds like he's ready for HOE (Hands-On Equations).  

 

I googled that, too. I don't think that one would go over too well with him.  Anything too manipulative heavy, and he gets insulted (yes, we're working on humility, too). 

 

 

If you have a tablet/smartphone, there are HoE apps that he might like better than the paper scale and little tokens.

 

Critical Thinking Press also has the Balance Benders series that are kind of like a workbook version of HoE.

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My dd (7.5 yo) also just finished RS D and we will start E in January. Right now we are moving through the Beast Academy 3A book. I thought that I would have her do the whole book, but I see now that there is quite a bit of repetition in BA (to my surprise). My dd is enjoying it though and I do like forcing her to think through the challenge problems. Overall, it seems to be great review and I'm happy that we are taking the time to go through it.

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