SM1 - Keep going or stay on the same topic?

[SereneHome]

We are stuck on unit 6 - addition/subtraction to 20.

 

I think  he is getting the concepts, but still makes mistakes.  We've been on that unit for awhile.

 

Do I stay on it until he can do it flawlessly with no mistakes or do I move on to the next unit - Shapes -  and just keep reviewing and reviewing and reviewing the heck out of unit 6?

 

To me, those fist 6 units represent the basics, the foundation which he will need for all the future stuff and I want to make sure that he knows it and understands it inside out.  But at the same time - how long can you be doing the same type of exercises, right?

 

What do I do?

[sweetpea3829]

We're actually stuck at the same spot with DS6.  In our case, I'm pretty certain he has yet to even begin understanding the concept of deconstructing and constructing numbers.  The mistakes that he makes show obvious flaws in his conceptual understanding.  He CAN add and subtract, if he's using his number line or his fingers.  But the whole, make a ten and then add on the remaining part confuses the heck out of him.  And likewise, he continues to be confused with subtraction.

 

Plus, he is still making place value mistakes on a pretty consistent basis (31 for 13, etc).  

 

So...like you....I'm trying to decide if I should move on to the next unit, which is pretty easy, and continue to review the first 6 units...or...something else.

 

Right now, I'm leaning towards shelving Singapore temporarily and pulling out DDs MUS Alpha level.  I'm thinking of running DS6 through it, and I think he could probably get through it within 2-3 months, as he CAN add and subtract.  But my hope is that MUS will give him a more solid understanding of place value and how we can break down numbers.

 

The thing is, I really believe in the Singapore approach and I feel as though Singapore gives a much deeper math education.  So I want him to move back to it.  But you're right...the first 6 units of 1A are extremely important and I think its a bad idea to move on much further without those units being mastered.  

 

I think if he gets a solid basis in these topics, he'll be much better off in the long run.  

[Crimson Wife]

When my DS got stuck on that unit, I went ahead to the measurement units and had him work through Mindware Addition Adventures and Subtraction Secrets 1 page per day until he mastered his facts to 20. He's now in 4B and doing great.

[sweetpea3829]

When my DS got stuck on that unit, I went ahead to the measurement units and had him work through Mindware Addition Adventures and Subtraction Secrets 1 page per day until he mastered his facts to 20. He's now in 4B and doing great.

 

Crimson, are these just for math facts practice?  Or does it go more into the whole "Making a 10"? 

[Meg429]

We were stuck at the same spot of Singapore 1A.  I decided to put it on the shelf for a bit and I purchased RightStart Math A used (we probably could started with B but I have a younger DS who can use A also).  I am in LOVE with RS and how it is giving her the foundation she needs.  I plan to return to Singapore but hopefully it will be easier for her when we get there because she has built a foundation.

[Crimson Wife]

Crimson, are these just for math facts practice?  Or does it go more into the whole "Making a 10"? 

 

The Mindware books are just practice. My DS could do the making a 10 using the Right Start abacus but I needed to get him from having to rely on the abacus to automaticity. That's where the Mindware books were helpful.

[SereneHome]

The Mindware books are just practice. My DS could do the making a 10 using the Right Start abacus but I needed to get him from having to rely on the abacus to automaticity. That's where the Mindware books were helpful.

 

I am not familiar with Mindware books, would you mind giving me a link.

 

thanks!

[sweetpea3829]

The Mindware books are just practice. My DS could do the making a 10 using the Right Start abacus but I needed to get him from having to rely on the abacus to automaticity. That's where the Mindware books were helpful.

 

 

Yeah, that's where Mason is.  He can do it with manipulatives or a number line or his fingers, but require him to use just his brain and forget it.

 

Plus, I got him all kinds of confused with subtraction when I too quickly jumped from "taking away" to "comparison".  

 

I love Singapore, but sometimes I think it might be a bit too much, too fast at this age.  

 

I'm finding it very difficult to adjust to my middle son...my oldest's math LD is so severe that I pretty much know to not expect mastery at all right now.  

 

Then there's oldest DS who just needs a brief lesson on pretty much anything in mathematics and he GETS it.  Number bonds and making tens and all of that were second nature to him.  

 

I think taking a break from Singapore and using something else a bit more gentle might be in order...for a few months anyways.  

[sweetpea3829]

I am not familiar with Mindware books, would you mind giving me a link.

 

thanks!

 

They are on Amazon...type in Mindware and a whole bunch come up.  

[MotherGoose]

I would go ahead to some other unrelated unit, then come back to it. I have found that if I give their brains awhile to process it, the concept is suddenly "easy." Right now, for example, my youngest is in Earlybird K. She's having trouble with using the + and - sign, but if I say "5 and 2 more" she understands. So I'm going to go onto a calendar unit, or more counting, or something else, and come back in a month or so. Her little brain will have worked it out by then and we'll move on (or we'll take another break and then she will get it). Her older sister had similar times of progress and struggle--and suddenly she says "Oh, regrouping is easy! I love it!" after aggravation a month or two earlier.

[Crimson Wife]

RR sells them: http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=10&category=2536

 

 

[mymommy1]

My oldest son had the same trouble with SM 1.  I shelved it and tried lots of other things (RS, MUS, MEP, etc).  He's a year or more behind in math now and still not found anything amazing for him.  I think most kids have trouble at that point, and I've read many SM users say to move on.  I wish I had.  Looking back, the adding and subtracting gets used in the length, weight, graph, etc units.  Then most of SM 1B is adding and subtracting.  If he is doing 80% or more, I think I'd move on.

 

On a second note, I am a math teacher and teach a class to elementary pre-service teachers.  My second son is natural with numbers.  When doing SM or any other math, I don't force him to do it the book's way.  Can your son add the numbers and get the correct answer in his own way?  Not all kids will make 10's.  Some add up, or count on, or add by place value left to right.  The key is if he can come up with a reasonably quick method and get a correct solution.  My first son is just now at 9 getting the 9 + trick of take one and make it 10.  My second son could do it at 5 before we started doing math.

[sweetpea3829]

My oldest son had the same trouble with SM 1.  I shelved it and tried lots of other things (RS, MUS, MEP, etc).  He's a year or more behind in math now and still not found anything amazing for him.  I think most kids have trouble at that point, and I've read many SM users say to move on.  I wish I had.  Looking back, the adding and subtracting gets used in the length, weight, graph, etc units.  Then most of SM 1B is adding and subtracting.  If he is doing 80% or more, I think I'd move on.

 

On a second note, I am a math teacher and teach a class to elementary pre-service teachers.  My second son is natural with numbers.  When doing SM or any other math, I don't force him to do it the book's way.  Can your son add the numbers and get the correct answer in his own way?  Not all kids will make 10's.  Some add up, or count on, or add by place value left to right.  The key is if he can come up with a reasonably quick method and get a correct solution.  My first son is just now at 9 getting the 9 + trick of take one and make it 10.  My second son could do it at 5 before we started doing math.

 

I've been going back and forth on this.  Because you're right....can they get the right answers using their own method?  The thing is, regrouping, making a ten, borrowing, etc....is such an important part of Singapore's approach.  

 

Honestly, I think Singapore's mental math approach requires a lot of cognitive flexibility that most 6 and 7 year olds aren't really ready for.  If you think about what's required when a student approaches 8+7...I have to take 2 to make that 8 into a 10...taking the 2 from the 7 will leave me with 5 over there, plus the 10 I just made when I took the 2.  There's a lot of working memory being used here.  

 

That's a lot to ask of a 1st or 2nd grader.  

 

Perhaps Singapore 1 should have spent more time focusing on the number bonds themselves and basic straightforward addition and subtraction.  

 

 

[blondeviolin]

For my children, we aim for mastery of that section WITH manipulatives. If they can consistently demonstrate how it works with c rods, then I'm happy. The mental part will come later. We play lots of games with two dice to get the concepts pretty solid.

[SereneHome]

I am not ready to give up on SM.  I've mentioned before that I went to school in a different country and while I don't remember exactly how they taught us, SM method is really how I add numbers in my head.  And while I am no math genius, I am pretty good at mental math, even larger numbers.  So, I truly think SM will give him a very good foundation. 

 

I might move on to the next unit and just do a page of review a day on unit 6/day and see what happens.

 

 

[Coco_Clark]

I feel like ALL kids get tripped up at that point. And I almost wonder if they stuck those "other" chapters (shapes, measurements, ect) right there on purpose. You don't NEED regrouping to do them, so it gives you a chance to move forward while also keeping at it with the regrouping.

 

My DS struggled at the same point and after a few weeks I just decided to move on (but also set aside time here and there to keep plugging at it on the whiteboard). I'm glad we did because by the time we came back around to it during 1b he was a LOT steadier, maybe just from the mere time to let it "set in". We are in MIF2 now and STILL doing a lot of work with regrouping and place value, only now including hundreds.

 

So I'd suggest moving on. You will tread this ground over and over (and over) again over the next year.

[desertflower]

Fwiw, if your dc can add/subtract using manipulatives accurately, then I say move on. Like you said come back to it on Fridays. There'll be enough practice. Plus, you can do math games.

 

I'm not too sure that the goal at the end of level one is to be able to add without manipulatives. I could be wrong especially since I don't have the hig. I think as long as your dc can manipulate the rods for addition/subtraction, then that's fine.

[mymommy1]

I whole heartedly agree.  Use the c-rods to get the picture placed in the child's mind.  Keep moving.  You do tons of it in 1B. Then in grade 2, you do all over again to the hundreds.  Then in grade 3, all over again to the thousands.  Then guess what!  In grade 4, to beyond 1000's.  In grade 5, to decimals.  It's an important concept for a reason, but I don't think most 1st graders have it down this early without rods or numberline or 10s chart.  Use 2 10's frames on a page and fill in with beans or whatever you have if you don't have rods or something. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I kept going and worked a little on that each day. 

 

 

[SereneHome]

OK, I just re-read this thread and I now I feel like crap.

 

He is really not using manipulative.  We have them.  He knows about them.  But when is doing practice pages he tries to do it in his head.  Which, it seems, way more than the expectations are at this point.   I think I've been pushing him way too much :(

 

Oh, I am so thankful for this forum and for giving me so much good info and different perspectives.

 

OK, I am moving on to unit 7 tomorrow, we'll be reviewing addition/subtraction and I am sure he'll do great.

 

Thanks again everyone!

[Coco_Clark]

I have my kids do math mentally as soon as they understand the concept. So, when still learning what's happening (these ones all combine to make a new ten) we use blocks. Over and over and over. But then, when they are very confidently using the blocks correctly every time, I get rid of them. BUT it's very hard to regroup mentally if you don't have your numbers that add up to 10 fully memorized. If you are following the HIG memorization schedule you are fine, but many don't have the HIG.

 

So really you need two things to get rid of the blocks: conceptual understanding of what's happening AND math facts that equal 10 memorized.

[SereneHome]

I do have HIG.  I am following their mental math but probably not on the "schedule".

[hands-on-mama]

My daughter had this same issue in the same spot. She had a hard time remembering her math facts. She could do them and we did use the HIG. We ended up shelving it, though, and we are now using a combo of MUS Alpha and CLE 1st grade. She is doing so much better. We may look into Singapore again when she is older, but she seems to be thriving now.

[BooksandBoys]

We had a similar issue in the units of Singapore 2A that covered multi-digit addition and subtraction with regrouping. I opted to have my son do 3-6 regrouping problems each day from those units and continued on with the book. By the time he had mastered multi-digit addition and subtraction with regrouping, he has also completed the rest of the book and avoided being frustrated by the hard units.

[hellen]

I have one kid who gets math naturally and one that doesn't. The mental math was easy for my eldest. My second grader who is still working her way through 1B won't even be introduced to a lot of that. It's wonderful to be able to do math mentally but it is not absolutely essential. This is a child who can't remember to count on consistently.

 

Have you looked into an abacus? It's helped my math challenged child more than other manipulatives.

 

I also vote for move on but keep reviewing. When we got stuck I pulled out an old Miquon book and worked through that as review.