Foreign Language for Littles

[Coco_Clark]

My kids have a sudden ravenous interest in "learning another language".  I have always planned on adding Latin at some vague point in the future (most likely when learning how to READ and WRITE weren't taking so much time, and the Latin would be able to be a boon to grammar and vocabulary) but hadn't really thought of doing it this early.  I'm game though.

So what shall I do?  Go ahead and start Latin now?  Or would a conversational language be better this young, and Latin better for 4th grade or so?  The only native speakers we know are Russians, and that's a pretty difficult language.  So perhaps French?  There is very very little spanish speaking in my area.

 

What are good programs for very young kids?  In any language, please, since we haven't chosen one yet.  We have only 1 day a week to do really intense study (30 min), but could stick in short reviews and games daily (10 min).

 

Right now the only thing I'm really thinking is Song School Latin, so if anyone has experience with that, that would be great too.  What do you do? What does the schedule look like?  What do you need?  

[Rosie_0801]

There's Little Pim if you haven't seen that before.

[Slache]

If you go with Spanish you'll have more resources. The complete book of starter Spanish, the complete book of Spanish, sss, gsws, local radio and television, children's books from downtown bookstores. Plus, I hear Spanish makes a great pre-Latin.

[Rachel]

My children love Song School Latin, they are picking it up pretty easily and it isn't too time consuming. It's a very gentle and fun introduction to Latin. We don't know any native speakers of other languages, so I intend to wait until they are older to study Spanish.

[Jackie]

There are a lot of resources for Spanish and it's easier to find free resources as well. Little Pim is often available at libraries and Amazon Prime has it for free streaming. Salsa Spanish is free online. Our library has a section of Spanish language books and a few Spanish audiobooks. Song School Spanish is a popular option.

[maize]

Little Pim is free on Amazon Prime intant video.

[Rachel]

Right now the only thing I'm really thinking is Song School Latin, so if anyone has experience with that, that would be great too. What do you do? What does the schedule look like? What do you need?

You can use just the workbook and cd (around $20). However I have the entire kit (around $65). On Monday we watch the new video and listen to the new song. Tuesday my 6 year old does the workbook. Later in the week he does the workbook sheet from the teachers manual. I haven't really needed the manual but the extra worksheets are nice. We have just added in the Monkey Match game cards. They are basically color coated flash cards which you could easily make on your own. I've been using them as flash cards and to play memory, they are nice cards but pretty pricy for what they are. There are a couple other game suggestions as well but we haven't played those yet. We listened to the songs a lot at first but now we only listen to all of them a couple times a week. There are a couple videos and games at headventureland.com that my son watches/plays on occasion as well. Overall we spend about 20 minutes on Mondays and 10 minutes on SSL the rest of the week.

 

Even my 2 year old is picking up some Latin. My 4 year old really likes it but she isn't ready for the workbook yet. She greets people with salve now instead of hello it's kind of cute but I usually have to explain what she said.

[Guest]

My children love Song School Latin, they are picking it up pretty easily and it isn't too time consuming. It's a very gentle and fun introduction to Latin. We don't know any native speakers of other languages, so I intend to wait until they are older to study Spanish.

 

I wound up not liking Song School when I ILL'd it and using GSWL instead. Song School is written for classroom instruction and ds and I are more comfortable with the language (not cutesy or talking down to the kids) in GSWL.

 

You can get a free sample if you've got a Kindle and it might keep your littles going while you look for a used copy.

 

We got ours for $10, and no, he did not finish it in kindergarten but we both had a lot of fun.

[Momof3littles]

My second grader is doing well with GSWL so far, but she's completed the first year of the MCT materials, so she has mastery of things like direct objects,i subject complements/pred. nominatives, pronouns, etc. and that makes it easier to discuss the grammar in GSWL.

[Coco_Clark]

Hm, I glanced at GSWL but didn't think it would be a good fit for a 4 and 6 year old.  I'll have to glance at it again.

 

I know there are LOTS of resources for Spanish.  And if I was in an area with a Spanish speaking population that would be my choice.  But unfortunately I don't think I could drum any fluent people at all up and I hesitate to spend valuable time learning a language they would never be able to practice with IRL.   I am finding almost as many French resources and I think we would be able to use it more.  

Although this morning I am leaning even more towards Latin, talking to the boys they are more interested in that then anything else.

[Slache]

Well if that's what you want to do then why don't you use SSLI, SSLII, possibility followed by GSWL, then whatever acronym suits you best? I should think that SSL would be a pleasant course for now.

[73349]

If you go with Latin, Rose Williams has some helpful resources: http://roserwilliams.com/index.html

[EndOfOrdinary]

We started Spanish at 4 due to Ds' request.  Then Latin at 6, once he had the grammar background to be able to understand the conjugation and declination.  Due to Latin requiring every single word to be either conjugated or declined based upon its usage and who is enacting the various sentence, it is an extremely difficult language to begin that early.  Often, very little retention happens before the grammar is in place.  Choosing a language which does not require that level of grammar shifting can actually help in the long run because they can learn vocabulary and begin using it.

 

Once a single language has been done, adding in Latin is actually very easy.  They piggy back well if the language are both Romance languages.  Conjugation and usage often mix well regardless as in many, many languages they are similar.

 

You do not need your kids practicing speaking Spanish to begin.  You would begin with simple colors, numbers, adjectives.  We used a lot of simple commands like "Wash your hands" before dinner and "I Love You."  Kids do not start speaking until multiple years have gone by.  Even then, it is short little sentences.  So I would not let this be your determining factor.  My son actually wrote more Spanish than he spoke for two years.  It is only recently (after 6 years of study) that he freely speaks in a fluid and regular clip.  The first three years were just listening and reading.  The next two were beginning writing and translation.  This last year has been actually speaking freely.  I spoke, he answered short bits, he understood lots online, but he did not do much by way if either initiating speech or really feeling fluent at all. You are more than likely never going to find someone to speak Latin with your kids other than Ecclesiastical Latin. 

 

The other option would be to have your kids learn the basics in a few languages to see which they like more.  Spanish, French, Russian, German, Italian, any of these work well for vocabulary building, but do not require extensive grammar like Greek and Latin.

[Tsuga]

I personally found Latin and Greek extremely helpful for Russian and I believe it would work the other way. Russian also contains aspect in a similar way to Greek and there are TONS of non-copyrighted materials thanks to the Soviets. So if you could get a free lesson once a week--go for it.

 

Spanish, French, Russian, German, Italian, any of these work well for vocabulary building, but do not require extensive grammar like Greek and Latin.

 

 

I am guessing you did not have to study Russian grammar!

[EndOfOrdinary]

I personally found Latin and Greek extremely helpful for Russian and I believe it would work the other way. Russian also contains aspect in a similar way to Greek and there are TONS of non-copyrighted materials thanks to the Soviets. So if you could get a free lesson once a week--go for it.

 

 

I am guessing you did not have to study Russian grammar!

I was specifically talking about vocabulary acquisition before grammar instruction. This is not really all that possible in Latin and Greek. However, in Russian - and the other languages in that list - it is possible to begin learning many simple words before grammar. Grammar is complex in many languages, but only a few require complete declension and conjugation. I was in no way saying the grammar was not complicated once full language study was being done. The OP was asking about language for a 4 and 6 year old. I do not know of many people who teach the grammar of their native language with any level of complexity at that age, let alone a foreign language.

[Tsuga]

So... I know Russian and I read Latin and used to read Greek (took only two years in college, so I'm not going to pretend I know it) and I really think you are mistaken about Russian, or possibly Latin and Greek.

 

In Russian you have to know conjugation and declension for every word. Even "mama" and "papa":

 

Day mame ruku = Give mother [your] hand.

 

Mama, day ruku= Mother, give [me] [your] hand.

 

Chto eta, mama? Eta ruka! = What is that, mother? It is a hand!

 

Chto v ruke? Eto--ogurets! = What [is] in [your] hand? It [is]--[a] cucumber!

 

Etc. It is pretty much all uphill from there.

 

This is where Russian could be considered a help--because the neural pathways for declension and conjugation are laid out for Greek and Latin--or just a big PITB.

[EndOfOrdinary]

We do not need to derail this thread. My son is currently building his Russian vocabulary with a family member who is a native speaker. The Nominative and Accusative cases in the first declension are identical. The same is true for the third declension. These are the only two cases you need for initial vocabulary instruction with children as young as the OP is asking about. They are not worrying about conjugating verbs, pronouns, or even much with adjectives. They do not need every declension, nor should they have it. It is very basic naming and a mixed English/other language speech which occurs for years at that age. It would be quite simple to limit the vocabulary of nouns to these declensions in the initial years and to even add adjectives after a year or two as a very slow introduction.

 

My son is currently studying Attic Greek and Latin, and I had Latin in Catholic school. Other than the Neuter in Greek and a set of plurals in Latin there is no place where the Nominative and the Accusative match to create a situation where simple naming is available.

 

I understand the complexities of the languages, but again, that is not what the OP is talking about. She is talking about working with a 4 and a 6 year old. Even in English we begin with simple naming and extremely simple grammar such as "noun." Not common noun, proper noun, plural noun, grouped noun. Just noun. For these needs accusative and nominative are plenty and do not even need to be explained.

 

I am sure you more than likely know more Russian than I do, but to give young children exposure to a language to see if they desire to learn it, you do not needs volumes. That is my point. The volumes are confusing. You need extremely simple. At four and six, they may decide in a month they no longer want anything. Expose them without complicating and let them enjoy the world in simplicity.

[Tsuga]

I am not suggesting that OP do anything other than expose a child to language through experience. I am a huge fan of learning through exposure and experience and not through grammar. So we are on the same page there. :)

 

I am simply pointing out that the Russian as a language is not in the same category as French or Spanish in terms of difficulty or complexity. I think your example of Latin was lacking--I can think of one more instance in which Latin nominative and accusative endings overlap--but the point is, kids don't need to know all this. They can absorb it, we agree on that. I love Russian and I think it's a great entry point.

 

[Rachel TX]

It's not necessary to use a formal program at a young age unless you really want to.

 

In any language, you can start with:

greetings - hello, goodbye, good day, how are you?, my name is, what is your name?, pleased to meet you

courtesies - please, thank you, excuse me

numbers from 1 to 10

questions - where is?, how much? 

 

Use YouTube to find pronunciation help like "how to count to 10 in French" and so on.

 

 

[Incognito]

SSL is made for your situation.  It is targeted at very small children.  My kids and I are doing it now (they are older), but it is very easy and we have done a couple of chapters in a week. 

 

 

[Coco_Clark]

Since this keeps getting popped to the top of the feed I'll let everyone know I ordered Song School Latin and we are currently on week 1 of the program.    

Since we are starting rather late in the year I figure I'll spread out SSL1 and SSL2 over the next 2.5 years until they will be respectively in 3rd and 4th grade, at which point we can move into a more advanced Latin program with the head start of quite a bit of vocabulary. I'll have a new Ker at that time as well so who knows, I may end up doing SSL all over again.     

 

Thanks for all the input!

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Binip,

 

I just read this thread.   Dd says that Russian is much closer to Latin in difficulty than French. She says French was far easier for her to learn. For her Russian has been the most difficult of the three. (I say as she is studying for a Russian essay exam on Monday.)