He wants friends (autism), sad

[sbgrace]

My son (high functioning autism, ADHD) is all kinds of eccentric/different, and has social issues. He's also extremely extroverted. He wants friends. He knows other kids don't like him/avoid him, and it hurts his feelings. He cries about being left out and wanting a friend.

 

I feel sad. I don't think he's capable of friendship, at least not at this point. And I don't know how to help him, or even if he is capable of making friends.

 

I don't know why I'm posting really. I guess because my heart is hurting. 

[Starr]

I'm so sorry.   :grouphug:

[JBJones]

:sad: I'm sorry you're feeling bad.  It's frustrating when you're trying to find the best way to help your child be included. It really does make your heart hurt.

 My DC has this problem and has never had any friends.  (((hugs)))

[Lecka]

It is not perfect -- but you could try to find some kids you could educate and see if they would be involved in a Circle of Friends. 

 

It is a big thing in our local school, and I see the boys in my older son's grade being greeted by kids in the hall, and I saw a boy invited to a birthday party I took my son to this weekend.  It is very heartening to me. 

 

They do education and they talk to kids about why it is meaningful, and also make it things that are fun. 

 

You also might ask the moms involved, and see if any of them would be willing to talk to their kids about some ways they could include your son. 

 

It is not easy -- but I don't think it is something kids necessarily figure out on their own, but I think many kids are happy to do it when they have had some things explained to them. 

 

That is -- if this would be appropriate for your son. 

 

I think you also might look for some friendships where people have a background that would allow them to be more understanding or more aware of speaking to their kids. 

[Princess Ariel]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I really get this.  And I wish I I had answers.  My dd 13 is in a similar situation.  She basically has no friends, used to have a friend but that friend is now too "cool" to even talk to her most of the time. I knew girls this age can be mean but I didn't know how bad it could be.  I have seen this girl and another literally run away and hide after church so they could avoid dd. Talking to parents about it  gets  nowhere. Youth group is another painful situation most of the time and in spite of talking to leaders with no understanding, I truly wonder if it is even worth it to attend at all. I just really think if others don't have a child with these issues they have very little understanding how much it hurts. I think for some kids, that if a child isn't visibly disabled, like in a wheelchair or something, they won't give them the time of day.

[Plink]

Have you tried attending social skills classes?  They are usually structured to eventually create an organic long-term support team with the potential for friendships.  The kids are allowed to play together, but have specific instructions on what to work on, and plenty of supervision for when (not if, but when) things go downhill.  

[Jilly]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug: We are struggling with the same issues. 

[Ivey]

:grouphug:  I have two boys on the spectrum and it's hard to hear how much you're both hurting over this.  

 

The playdate situation sounds terrible.  :crying: Have you (or the other parents) spoken to the kids about your son's autism? We've found it incredibly helpful to be upfront with both kids and adults. In our experience, letting people know why our boys are behaving differently and giving them a chance to ask questions can only help. For example, last spring was the first time that Ds10 had ever been invited to anything by another kid without my direct involvement, when a boy on his baseball team invited him over, then invited him to his birthday party the following week. Turns out, Dh had addressed the entire team at the beginning of the season and offered to all of their questions. This one sweet boy really listened when Dh said that Ds is hard to get to know, but fun to hang out with once you get to know him. He's in my basement right now playing Minecraft. 

 

Ds17 (Aspergers) has always been lucky to have Ds15 (nt) as his spokesman, social coach, and protector. Ds17 had zero friends when he was in public school, but he's been able to make some friends through Ds15 and hang on to them since then. Your son is lucky to have a brother. Have you shared your concerns with your other son? He might be able to help out more than you think.  

 

Both of my kids on the spectrum have learned to be a friend, but making a friend beyond them. At this point, it's still up to the other kid to make the effort, or for someone else to bridge the gap. 

[albeto.]

Oh crud. :(

 

Have you looked into RDI? We incorporated a lot of social skills into our play drills and I think that helped out a lot during these years. For example, we'd play "Hotter / Colder Hide-and-Seek." I'd hide a small toy, then invite my child in to find it. He would look to me for clues. Instead of saying "hotter" or "colder," he'd look to my face for the clue. "Hotter" would be an expression of interest, and "Colder" would be an expression of boredom. The closer ("hotter") he got to the toy, the more excited my face would look. The farther ("colder") he got from the toy, the more bored my face would look. We did all kinds of opposite expressions. Eventually he learned to read these expressions naturally, and would ask me if I was bored when he perceived it in my body language. This was transferred to other kids eventually, helping him read that body language that others so naturally pick up on so they know what to do to make and maintain friendships. That's one idea we got from RDI. Maybe there's a thread around here with more ideas. 

 

But in any case, I do hear your pain. It's so hard being a mom to a special kid. Hugs to you.

[Crimson Wife]

Ditto for the recommendation of structured social skills groups.

 

Also look into AYSO VIP soccer and Little League Challenger division. Special Olympics has "unified" sports teams that mix disabled and typically abled athletes. My local SO even sponsors a unified bowling team.

 

My little one recently joined a Daisy scout troop and the first meeting seemed to go well. When the girls were going around the circle introducing themselves, I said that DD has autism and that means she's still learning to talk (they're all in kindergarten so I kept things simple). She was included when the girls were playing together at the end of the meeting while the moms discussed logistical stuff.

[laundrycrisis]

:grouphug:   Hugs.  I have a kid in a similar situation.  It sucks. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't have a special needs child, but I've found this book to be very practical and positive for teaching social skills:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Unwritten-Rules-Friendship-Strategies/dp/0316917303/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414892963&sr=8-1&keywords=unwritten+rules+friendship

[Jilly]

Also look into AYSO VIP soccer and Little League Challenger division. Special Olympics has "unified" sports teams that mix disabled and typically abled athletes. My local SO even sponsors a unified bowling team.

 

 

I'm not the OP but thanks for mentioning this. I just did a web search and my area has a VIP team. I already wrote an email to the group asking for more information.   :)

[texasmama]

:(  (((hugs)))

 

As a therapist, I saw several ASD kids, and I thoroughly enjoyed working with them.  One young teen in particular was able to form friendships around video games.  I know your ds may be a bit young for this, but the teen gamer world might be a place for him to fit in if he is at all interested in these sorts of things.  It makes the friendships focus on a common interest and is a bit like parallel play for younger kids.  There are less social things to navigate because the "rules" are the rule of the game, which are clear cut, and most of the time this is easier for kids.  I learned a lot about Halo working with this client because it was his "language".  :)

 

Caveat:  I am not a gamer, nor are my kids so maybe I am way off.  I am speaking about my experience with this young man who was a client, and gaming was a world he was able to makes friends in.  Maybe there is a 5th grade equivalent.

 

I'm very sorry.  Your post hurt my heart.  :(

[sbgrace]

Thank you all. I wish it's was easier.

 

 

 

I've been looking, and even contacted the autism support leader (?) here yesterday. She told me there aren't social skills groups, or anything really, in our area. But she's going to get me some information for a town about 30 minutes from here. I don't know what's offered/how feasible participation will be given the distance. 

[Renny30]

Hugs. This made my heart hurt, because it was my life for the past 3 years and I cried many nights about it.

 

What's changed for me is we're in a homeschool collective and I basically pay $500 a month for him to have social interaction through group tutoring, extra curricular and field trips. He attends 3 days a week while I work, so it's a mix of childcare and social, honestly, more social because I work from home. Technically, I wouldn't need to send him. There's a mix of HFA and NT kiddos in the group from grades K-5 and the coordinator teaches them inclusion. It's awesome. I know this isn't an option for everyone and I also know it may not last forever, so with that said, I'm working very hard on improving his social skills. 

 

I created my own social skills training. I use a mix of social stories (the Julia Boyd and Cheri Meiners books are very good). I'm also using Joesph Porter and Sussan Diamond's Social Rules for Kids http://tinyurl.com/qxkqtto ). Right now both are conversation starters. I use the Builder apps. All of them and we do social skills exercises (Darlene Mannix has a very good book). I also had a membership to The Social Express, but cancelled it because we were doing too much. I'll revisit that one when he's older.

 

This training is not easy stuff to do as it often makes me feel like I'm trying to change the nature of my amazing child, but I don't feel like I have any choice but to try to teach him how to fit in socially because it's so important to him. His brother is 23, so he's kind of an only. 

 

In addition to the Builder Apps we're using the Social Skills Builder app and I think it's helpful, but it's new for us, so the jury is still out. I like the videos and they hold my DS's attention. http://www.socialskillbuilder.com/autism-special-needs-software/parents-use-our-learning-tools/

 

The Social Detective is next on my list of things to buy. I'm of the opinion that you can't have enough of this stuff. Moving from theory to practice is a process and my understanding is it may not work for all children. Fortunately, I think it's working for my DS. I think it would be worth you trying. 

 

I'm on the waiting list for social skills group training at the Marcus Autism Center this spring. Pricey, close to $1,000 for 4 or 5 sessions, but I've heard great things about it so we'll give it a go.

 

I'm praying for you and your DS. My heart aches for you, because I have been there. 

[Renny30]

:(  (((hugs)))

 

As a therapist, I saw several ASD kids, and I thoroughly enjoyed working with them.  One young teen in particular was able to form friendships around video games.  I know your ds may be a bit young for this, but the teen gamer world might be a place for him to fit in if he is at all interested in these sorts of things.  It makes the friendships focus on a common interest and is a bit like parallel play for younger kids.  There are less social things to navigate because the "rules" are the rule of the game, which are clear cut, and most of the time this is easier for kids.  I learned a lot about Halo working with this client because it was his "language".  :)

 

Caveat:  I am not a gamer, nor are my kids so maybe I am way off.  I am speaking about my experience with this young man who was a client, and gaming was a world he was able to makes friends in.  Maybe there is a 5th grade equivalent.

 

I'm very sorry.  Your post hurt my heart.  :(

 

My son made fast friends because of Minecraft. Most of the kids play it in the car/vans on the way to bowling, P.E.and field trips. They all love the game and it helped him to fit in socially.

 

 

[texasmama]

My son made fast friends because of Minecraft. Most of the kids play it in the car/vans on the way to bowling, P.E.and field trips. They all love the game and it helped him get in the club. 

 

Yes!  Minecraft is the 5th grade equivalent.  :)

 

[Crimson Wife]

I'm not the OP but thanks for mentioning this. I just did a web search and my area has a VIP team. I already wrote an email to the group asking for more information.   :)

 

The assistant coach of my little one's VIP team is a SN teenager (her NT brother is the head coach). I like how the program gives not just playing opportunities but also leadership opportunities to those with SN. The minimum age to be a volunteer is 12 and the minimum age to be a referee or assistant coach is 14.

[kbutton]

I'm sorry. We've had a lot of ups and downs socially due to ASD, and it's not all just the kids--I am in a homeschool "support" group of moms, and SN is a no-go topic even if you are just presenting a "typical day in the life of" scenario and not getting all down and dirty about the difficulties. 

 

My son recently has made friends with a boy who is 14 and has some intellectual disabilities. He also likes to be around kids significantly older or younger than he is. Common interests do help, but finding an environment for those to come out is hard. 

 

One word of encouragement--sometimes playdates are better with ONE other family at a time, or even one other child at a time. You can better structure and suggest activities. In addition, sometimes a group has "that kid"--the one that wants to look cool by putting down others or pulling one over on them. And sometimes, that kid has a lot of sway with the others, but the other kids might actually be nice one at a time. Or, sometimes just having three kids changes the dynamics to something impossible to process, even if the kids are nice and not being snarky and mean.

[Princess Ariel]

I just wanted to add that social skills groups are not always what they are intended  to be.  My dd has attended 3 so far (which we paid a high price for!) two of them  through our OT/Speech clinic.  This was a few years back but things were happening in this group that my dd told me about on the way home, a kid picking on her, being mean to her.  I called the provider and she was totally clueless.  I have a feeling that the therapists gave too much free play time and were not tuned into what the kids were doing (probably chatting with each other instead of focusing on the kids).  It was a bad experience all around. The last one  was through the ps special ed dept but there were only 3 kids in the group, the other two were boys so I don't feel it gave her experience dealing with girls (and how mean they can get in those tween/early teen years). I would still like to find something that would work better for her and especially that would focus on the early teen issues she is now facing. She is 13 but not at the level of most girls that age (some developmental delay).

[cherylswope]

I just wanted to add that social skills groups are not always what they are intended  to be.  My dd has attended 3 so far (which we paid a high price for!) two of them  through our OT/Speech clinic.  This was a few years back but things were happening in this group that my dd told me about on the way home, a kid picking on her, being mean to her.  I called the provider and she was totally clueless.  I have a feeling that the therapists gave too much free play time and were not tuned into what the kids were doing (probably chatting with each other instead of focusing on the kids).  It was a bad experience all around. The last one  was through the ps special ed dept but there were only 3 kids in the group, the other two were boys so I don't feel it gave her experience dealing with girls (and how mean they can get in those tween/early teen years). I would still like to find something that would work better for her and especially that would focus on the early teen issues she is now facing. She is 13 but not at the level of most girls that age (some developmental delay).

 

We found this too. In our rural area, the local social skills group contained boys with aggressive language and behavior. When a caseworker invited my daughter, we declined.

 

Yet her own peers rapidly "outgrew" her, as did their younger sisters over time. My daughter longed for a heart-to-heart talk with another girl, but instead she found only loneliness.

 

Flash forward to today - volunteering fills her days. She is happier than I can remember.

 

Through service in her own areas of strength (compassion and friendliness), she spends 6 hours in a highly supervised, structured setting as a client/volunteer for adults with significant special needs. Despite her own frailties, needs, and quirks, she "goes to work" on a supervised van, rides with people she knows, brings home stories about her day, and is - finally - as social at 19 as she once was at age 2. The others are more developmentally delayed than my daughter, and she helps them. She considers them all her friends. When she requested prayer for one of the cleints, I knew these people fill her heart and mind. I heard her request, "Harold is having knee surgery this week," and I smiled. I do not know Harold. Michelle has friends.

 

 

Temple Grandin writes of her own social life as connected entirely to work. Through service in areas of strength, my own children have finally found similar connections. My son, Michelle's twin brother (with autism, Asperger-type social behaviors, mental illness), struggled with rampant social rejection from age 9 or so through adolescence. Then he took a class at a local history museum. He loves history. As part of the class, he volunteered under close supervision. This small history museum has become the center of his social life. He has much yet to learn, but he meets people as they come for tours, and he shares a fascination with regional history with the museum's staff.

 

 

Even if you cannot seem to find a good social outlet now, all of this is to say - I wish I would have known the value of building individual strengths, forging social bonds at home, and resting in patience during my children's loneliest years. At the time, my husband and I wondered if we would always be the social center of their worlds. Now I can see that Temple Grandin's experience gives us hope for our own children. The heartache is still present in so many ways for us and for them, but this does help ease the burden a little.

 

 

Cheryl

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

[Princess Ariel]

We found this too. In our rural area, the local social skills group contained boys with aggressive language and behavior. When a caseworker invited my daughter, we declined.

 

Yet her own peers rapidly "outgrew" her, as did their younger sisters over time. My daughter longed for a heart-to-heart talk with another girl, but instead she found only loneliness.

 

Flash forward to today - volunteering fills her days. She is happier than I can remember.

 

Through service in her own areas of strength (compassion and friendliness), she spends 6 hours in a highly supervised, structured setting as a client/volunteer for adults with significant special needs. Despite her own frailties, needs, and quirks, she "goes to work" on a supervised van, rides with people she knows, brings home stories about her day, and is - finally - as social at 19 as she once was at age 2. The others are more developmentally delayed than my daughter, and she helps them. She considers them all her friends. When she requested prayer for one of the cleints, I knew these people fill her heart and mind. I heard her request, "Harold is having knee surgery this week," and I smiled. I do not know Harold. Michelle has friends.

 

 

Temple Grandin writes of her own social life as connected entirely to work. Through service in areas of strength, my own children have finally found similar connections. My son, Michelle's twin brother (with autism, Asperger-type social behaviors, mental illness), struggled with rampant social rejection from age 9 or so through adolescence. Then he took a class at a local history museum. He loves history. As part of the class, he volunteered under close supervision. This small history museum has become the center of his social life. He has much yet to learn, but he meets people as they come for tours, and he shares a fascination with regional history with the museum's staff.

 

 

Even if you cannot seem to find a good social outlet now, all of this is to say - I wish I would have known the value of building individual strengths, forging social bonds at home, and resting in patience during my children's loneliest years. At the time, my husband and I wondered if we would always be the social center of their worlds. Now I can see that Temple Grandin's experience gives us hope for our own children. The heartache is still present in so many ways for us and for them, but this does help ease the burden a little.

 

 

Cheryl

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

Thank you, Cheryl!  Can you recommed a specific resource from Temple Grandin where she addresses these issues or is it throughout her writings?

 

I am glad your dd and ds found places to be comfortable and connect with others.  My dd doesn't really enjoy being with  people with disabilities or even older folks.  She doesn't even want to visit  my elderly mother and because my mother is now lacking in many of those social skills herself, it just doesn't work. I feel really badly about that!

Dd does like animals, is currently  training her dog (we go to classes with a teacher who is willing to work with her, has actually bent over backwards for us), so maybe something along those lines would work for her. 

Good ideas from everyone here!

[EndOfOrdinary]

One of the main things that I told my autistic students who were extroverted was to only talk 6 times.  They would get so excited that they would just keep talking, and talking, and talking.  It was so off putting that other kids wouldn't interact and would start to get all upset.  By giving the concrete rule of only talking 6 times, it allowed my aspie kids to matriculate better.  It wasn't a "fake it till you make it" situation, as they were not able to pick up on the cues that everyone else was getting frustrated, but it did help them "behave" better.

 

I cannot say that is one of the things that is going on with your Ds, but it might be that you are able to isolate two or three rules you could create which might really help.

 

MineCraft was the in for my son.  He is not ASD.  He is PG and extroverted.  Over the top wanting friends, not able to understand what everyone else seemed to just get, major issues in attempts to blend in.  He became the target at church and a homeschool group as well.  We used the idea of social rules to help, though it is not perfect by any means.  Sorry for your family's pain.

[Innisfree]

Responding to the point about liking animals and training her dog: my area has two pet therapy groups, an adult one that visits the local library to let the young kids read to therapy dogs and a 4-h group for kids who train their dogs. The 4-h group is expressly and successfully inclusive of kids with disabilities, but based on the contact I've had with the adult group I think they'd also be receptive to a kid who needed to expand his social world. And, somehow, being around animals takes the focus off the difficulties of any individual human. Might something like that work for the op's son?

 

ETA: 4-H in general in our area is very focused in being inclusive, so there might be another type of club available if animals aren't an interest.

[cherylswope]

Thank you, Cheryl!  Can you recommed a specific resource from Temple Grandin where she addresses these issues or is it throughout her writings?

 

I am glad your dd and ds found places to be comfortable and connect with others.  My dd doesn't really enjoy being with  people with disabilities or even older folks.  She doesn't even want to visit  my elderly mother and because my mother is now lacking in many of those social skills herself, it just doesn't work. I feel really badly about that!

Dd does like animals, is currently  training her dog (we go to classes with a teacher who is willing to work with her, has actually bent over backwards for us), so maybe something along those lines would work for her. 

Good ideas from everyone here!

 

[A quick preface - time permits my visiting WTM only intermittently, so if I am ever asked a specific question and do not respond, it is only because I did not see the question, but this topic caught my eye.]

 

 

My son is like your daughter. Whenever we visit Michelle's favorite volunteer settings (nursing home or center for the developmentally delayed), my son asks to wait in the car, because both places give him "the willies." He much prefers methodically cleaning artifacts in his quiet office within the history museum!

 

 

You can find Temple Grandin's personal loneliness contrasted with (and mitigated by) her professional success in Oliver Sacks' intimate profile of her within The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat. This also appears throughout her own writings and lectures.

 

For a shareable brief example - see this excerpt from an interview with Temple Grandin:

 

Do you feel you are missing something in life because of your Autism?

Just in the last couple of years, when I was working on my book, Thinking in Pictures, I realized that I am missing something that everybody else has-emotional complexity-and I have replaced it with intellectual complexity. I obtain great satisfaction out of using my intellect. I like to figure things out and solve problems. This really turns me on. When I observe emotional complexity in others, it is sort of a rhythm that goes on between a boyfriend and a girlfriend. I often observe this on airplanes. Sometimes I get to sit next to them. It is similar to observing beings from another planet. The relationship is what motivates them; but for me, it is figuring out how to design something, such as figuring out better ways to treat Autism.

 

I use my mind to solve problems and invent things. I get a tremendous satisfaction from inventing things and doing innovative research. We have just finished up several good experiments at the University. We came out with really good results, and it turns me on. My life is basically my work. If I did not have my work, I would not have any life. This brings up the importance of getting autistic people in high school and junior high school interested in something they can turn into a career. They need to build on their talents, such as art work and computer programming.

 

© Copyright Temple Grandin.

Permission is granted to copy this document, at no charge and in its entirety, provided that the copies are not used for commercial advantage, that the source is cited and that the present copyright notice is included in all copies, so that the recipients of such copies are equally bound to abide by the present conditions. Prior written permission is required for any commercial use of this document, in whole or in part, and for any partial reproduction of the contents of this document exceeding 50 lines of up to 80 characters, or equivalent.

 

from autism-help.org

 

...

 

You might enjoy looking through this book for specific ideas regarding implementation: Developing Talents, by Temple Grandin. Although my own children do not possess her strong intellect, we have found her insights and recommendations very helpful (and hopeful).

 

Thanks-

Cheryl

 

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

 

[cherylswope]

My son (high functioning autism, ADHD) is all kinds of eccentric/different, and has social issues. He's also extremely extroverted. He wants friends. He knows other kids don't like him/avoid him, and it hurts his feelings. He cries about being left out and wanting a friend.

 

I feel sad. I don't think he's capable of friendship, at least not at this point. And I don't know how to help him, or even if he is capable of making friends. We moved here in 4th grade, which might have something to do with it, but it seems many of the kids he's around in church and homeschool group aren't particularly friendly and inclusive, let alone with a child who looks normal and yet isn't. We were at a house with two other homeschool families for a playdate type thing last week. The kids split into two groups sort of by age and went into rooms closing doors, leaving him in the hallway alone. They told him he couldn't come in because he didn't have a password (I didn't know this). It's that sort of ick, or just being ignored/snickered at.

 

I don't know why I'm posting really. I guess because my heart is hurting. 

 

Ever since I first read this, I wanted to respond. (Some topics jump off the screen into our heart.) My daughter experienced everything you describe, no matter the group of children. It amazed me not only how deeply she hurt, but how much we hurt for her. Thank you for sharing this.

 

While looking for her poetry to include in another project this morning, I found a poem she wrote at this time. I wanted to come back to share this, because I thought you might appreciate her thoughts.

 

As our children grow older, some not only experience but also recognize social rejection. When this happened for my daughter, again and again, she wrote this. She entitled it "Alone."

 

quoted from Through Time's Looking Glass: A Book of Poetry, Michelle Swope

 

 

 

Alone

 

Under the shadows,

Just one girl.

Time holds time,

Softly, gently by.

 

The night is fleeting,

    going to dusk,

and still she has not

    the means.

 

Although she travel

    life's road,

She has not life's helpmeet.

Compensation life's only woe.

 

Her friends have gone,

To where does she turn?

Nowhere but alone,

    under the shadow.

Where no one wishes to be....

 

Though years and years go by,

Still she remains,

Alone.

And I only know

She'd wish otherwise.

 

 

[sbgrace]

Wow Cheryl. That is powerful. Thank you for sharing. 

 

I was starting to quote and respond individually, but I don't want to miss something.

I am so helped by the replies here. It's less isolating emotionally to know others know how this feels. And I think I am gaining some ideas too.

 

Thank you all!

 

I bought some social skills books, and went back through resources I already own. I'm going to try to target some specific things, and have already been working a bit. He's, um, disappointed in the way the social world works. The whole thing is hard. But I am feeling like I've failed him letting him go on happy and oblivious for so long.

 

I do think group dynamics are part of the problem, and one on one would be better. I just have trouble arranging things! I don't want to people to feel compelled to do things with us if they would rather not!

 

He's a dreamer. For months he's been consumed with imagining/drawing plans for/talking constantly about creating a town. I wish I could find a realistic interest for him to nurture.

 

I googled. I think he would love Minecraft.

 

You guys have given me a lot to think about. Thank you!