Holding a kid "back"--WWYD?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I keep going back and forth on this issue, and every time I think I come to a decision, something happens that changes my mind.

 

My oldest DD has a September birthday, which means that here she would have made the October 1 cutoff by just a few weeks. In many ways she's a very bright kid, but in other ways, she definitely shows some emotional immaturity. She's a very unmotivated kid (I've posted about her here before), and I'm having to literally drive her through her education. Given that, and given the fact that I didn't "push" academically when she was younger (I thought that she would grow into intellectual curiosity and I didn't want to  "school" it out of her--she never did and remains completely uninterested to this day), I consider us behind in several subjects.

 

So my dilemma is over whether to consider her in 7th grade this year (where she'd be if she'd enrolled in PS) or in 6th grade. I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but it matters when I consider the trajectory of our schooling over the next 5-6 years, standardized testing, potentially applying for things like Duke TIP, taking the SAT early (which she's expressed interest in), and so on.

 

On one hand, it feels like the right decision to me because it feels right to give her that extra time academically, but it also feels like a huge copout (for me, not criticizing anyone else who's done it!). She feels older than your average 6th grader, but she's not academically ready to do some things required of 7th graders.

 

Anyway, I'd love to hear thoughts on this (kind and gentle ones, please! I'm already beating myself up plenty over it). WWYD?

[Angie in VA]

I know people who've moved kids up a year and who've held kids back a year (as early as elementary and as late as high school, btw), and in those cases there were no problems. I also know a young man whose parents had him take classes at the local cc after he graduated. He could see the light at the end of the tunnel, ie, going to a 4 yr college (and he will still go for 4 years) the next year, but it was hard on him at the time. Now? He's a freshman, made a varsity sports team, and is SO GLAD he has a lighter schedule (b/c he transferred those cc credits). 

 

Of course, there are pros and cons to both. Seventh grade is a long ways off from junior year (thinking of PSAT/National Merit here), so I bet things will be clearer then. Some people add in a gap year b/t graduation and starting college, so this can take many forms. 

 

All this is to say, even if you do and regret it, there's plenty of time to move your child back up later should you feel she's ready. 

 

 

[Chris in VA]

I guess I'm not the one to ask, really--my son has a Sept birthday, and we held him back. He was 19 when he graduated. He needed that extra time. It did come with a price, but I wouldn't change it.

However in your case, I would not really consider it holding back. I think you started really early, to be honest.

It'd just sort of be a "course correction."

 

How does your dd feel about it? How do you feel about her dating and such with 18 year olds? How about being the last to reach physical maturity (though she may not be, of course--puberty happens at different rates)? What about allowing her to be the MOST competent in a group (co-op, youth clubs, etc) instead of the least mature?

[Ottakee]

In our area she would be a 6th grader as the cut off date is now Sept. 1 but most kids with summer birthdays are waiting until they are 6 to start K.  K is now much more like 1st grade used to be.  I think the emotional maturity thing is a big deal.  I would rather have my child a bit more mature as they enter the highschool years and college than on the younger side.

 

So many public school teachers say they can pick out the youngest kids in each class, not because they can't do the work, but more due to emotional maturity issues.

 

How does your daughter feel about it?  Instead of "holding her back" could just take this year to "finish" 6th grade and then move on to 7th next year?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I can't multiquote on this laptop, but thank you both.

 

How does your dd feel about it? How do you feel about her dating and such with 18 year olds? How about being the last to reach physical maturity (though she may not be, of course--puberty happens at different rates)? What about allowing her to be the MOST competent in a group (co-op, youth clubs, etc) instead of the least mature?

 

Chris, can you tell me what you considered to be the price? If you'd rather not discuss it, or if you'd rather PM me, that's completely fine.

 

She has already reached physical maturity *sigh*. She's 5' 5" and looks much older than she is. She's fairly emotionally mature and already hangs with kids her age and a bit older. She's a bit socially immature in that she's not very confident and not really ready to go out into the world quite yet, she likes to wear layers so not a bit more skin shows than she's comfortable with, she's not really ready to think about boys yet, she still wants me there for most things, etc. I'd be comfortable with the social aspect of her being in 7th grade, and I'm relatively comfortable with where she is now socially and emotionally--I think it's appropriate for her to be straddling girlhood and teenagehood at this point. It's really the academic element I'm most concerned about. Does that make any sense? I hope so--I'm still trying to sort it all out myself!
 

Oh, I forgot to address how she feels about it. She feels the same way I do. She would love the extra time and to feel as though a little of the "hurry, hurry!" pressure is lifted, but it feels like taking the easy way out to her as well. We're both a bit perfectionist--the kind that gets paralyzed when the way is not immediately clear and as we think it should be!

[PeterPan]

I don't know.  Angie mentioned 7th being a long way off from her junior year, but really the years have gotten faster/shorter as we've gone along.  7th doesn't seem that far back, and we're doing 10th now.  My guess is the same things bugging you now will be bugging you a few years from now.

 

My *question* for you, or what I suggest you ponder, is what she DOES like to do.  My dd, like yours, is distinctly NOT competitive.  I mean, she's just astonishingly non-competitive.  The most that has sparked ANYTHING out of her is noticing kids get grades in her online spanish, which motivates her to work harder.  (She likes an A so she works for it.)  Even that isn't competitive.  My dd also has interests that go well beyond the typical school zone.  

 

So I can just tell you that for us that was the age where we had to get over what we thought education would be in general and accept the real child in front of me.  And for her, a lot of stuff doesn't matter, isn't in her value system.  I've read there are also connections between non-competitiveness and some labels.  You didn't ask that, but I'm just tossing that out.  You mentioned immaturity, and you could actually be seeing something there, a mix of strengths and weaknesses.

 

If a dc is THAT CLOSE to the cutoff (which in many places is August, btw), I just don't see the point.  She's not thriving and you're not happy.  What's the reason to keep her bumped up like that?  I say whatever is bugging you now will be bugging you 4 years from now on this issue.  That's my two cents.  I'd take the extra year doing 6th and work really hard to connect with who in the world SHE is and who SHE is becoming.  See what areas she IS motivated in and nurture them.  She might need some structure or a schedule for her work that gives her more time for whatever it is she IS into.  My dd, at that age, was still into sculpture, so she got a couple hours a day on it. 

 

I don't think pushing is worth much.  Where she is/is not is not because you did/did not push.  It's not really even about being bright.  My ds is crazy bright and I had an OT suggest I retain him an additional year.  He has a fall b-day, like your dd.  We're not going to retain him but the only way I finally sorted it out was getting the psych eval to see what was going on.  (majors strengths contrasted by major weaknesses)  Grade placement is NOT about how bright they are.  It's about what gives them time and puts them in the best position to BLOOM.  

 

And you know, what you *might* do is just see what happens.  Like if this year you have been calling her 6th but it's always you pushing, you pushing, what happens if you just, without saying anything, reign back the requirements to 5th grade level?  You could try it for 6 weeks and see what happens.  So you're not changing math programs (assuming your math is working), but just ratchett back everything you have to push.  On writing, ratchett back to 5th grade WTM.  On science, pull back the requirements.  On assigned reading, on total time per day.  For complexity of the writing assignments.  For everything pull back to mid-year 5th and see what happens.  If that cuts back an hour a day and lightens her mental load a fuzz, what *might* happen is that her own interests have more mental energy left over to start showing.  So then you might see some blossoming.

 

I don't know, I don't see a sig to really know what you're doing.  It would just be another way to approach it.  That way you're trying it to see what it changes.  After all, we still have 3/4 of a year.  There's no point doing this year at 6th grade level and repeating it.  Might as well make the changes you'd make if you approached her as a crazy bright 5th grader (or whatever the adjusted grade would be right now) and see what happens.  If you got the blossom, then you know it was good.  Then you just decide how to handle it socially, which as Ottakee says will probably be just spending an extra year as 6th.  

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, DD14 repeated a grade early on and I am so glad she did.  Her personality, goals, interests have suddenly blossomed so much this year as she has reached a level of mental maturity that just wasn't there before.  If we were already dealing with 9th grade she would be under a ton of pressure and almost certainly overwhelmed.  Instead, we can move at a slower pace, she is solidifying areas that were weak, and she is coming into her own in areas of interest.  She is really a totally different child than she was even last year.  

 

She was just 2 weeks from the cut-off where we live so she was the youngest in her class for years.  I could see, compared to others, she was not ready, but we repeated for academic reasons, not emotional or mental maturity reasons.  I think now we should have just had her start a tad late to begin with.   She isn't that different in age at all from her current grade level peers (after repeating), even though that doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as it once did, but definitely her mental maturity is what has really changed things this year.  So, so glad we didn't press forward.

 

Hugs, OP.  I don't see you as taking the easy way out at all.  I see you as seeking answers and questioning the current path because your mommy gut is telling you she needs the extra time.  She is also telling you this verbally.  Listen to your mommy gut.  Listen to your child.  If she wants to accelerate later, fine.  But don't keep pressing forward if you are feeling it is the wrong thing to do.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[Storygirl]

 

Oh, I forgot to address how she feels about it. She feels the same way I do. She would love the extra time and to feel as though a little of the "hurry, hurry!" pressure is lifted, but it feels like taking the easy way out to her as well. We're both a bit perfectionist--the kind that gets paralyzed when the way is not immediately clear and as we think it should be!

 

I'm not sure why it seems like the easy way out.

 

Struggling along with material that is too difficult or not developmentally appropriate is not more valuable than slowing things down enough to really solidify the important foundational skills.

 

DD12 is a seventh grader, but she could be eighth, because I started her on K work a couple of months before she turned five instead of waiting until the next fall (she has a December birthday). She was an early reader, so I thought we might as well move forward. Then we discovered that she had extreme difficulty with math and weak natural writing abilities, and it no longer seemed appropriate for her to be a grade ahead. So we slowed her down. We took a year and a half to complete first grade and a year and a half to complete second grade, so that by third grade she was on grade level with her same-age peers. We did not repeat curriculum or slow her down. We just continued to move ahead at an appropriate pace; this reduced the stress caused by trying to keep up with a certain grade level (which we had, after all, rather arbitrarily assigned to her).

 

It was the right choice for her, and I don't regret it. She still struggles in those areas. Since she has done that extra year of schoolwork, we may just decide to graduate her at age 17 after all if she accumulates enough high school credits by then. We're keeping the options open. In her case, we would just graduate her "early" after eleventh grade.

[Ellie]

Almost always, I believe that when we have to put a grade-level label on a homeschooled child, it should be the one he'd be in if he were in school, based on his date of birth and the cut-off in his state.

 

I see no reason for you to hold your child back on paper. "Grade level" has nothing whatsoever to do with maturity. It is only a designation of how many years they've been in school.

[Lecka]

I think if she was in a group setting, she would be aware of the range of children there, and you would be aware.

 

You are thinking of an imaginary child of a certain grade level.  Probably very few kids are similar to this imaginary child. 

 

I am totally on the side of saying the grade level is the official grade, or the official grade minus one.  I think going back one year when there is a close cut-off is no big deal. 

 

But what I really think, is that a 6th grader or a 7th grader is kind of an amorphous concept.  There is not an official model child who is "the" 6th grader or "the" 7th grader, for all other children to try to match.

 

It is just not realistic.

 

Let kids be where they will thrive, let kids be doing the things that are most appropriate for them. 

 

I also agree -- no reason to have an arbitrary place to be and always push, push, push to be there. 

 

I think, too, in the real world, there are 7th graders who are weaker in a subject compared to 6th graders.  It is just reality.  It is not some aberrant thing for her to be slightly ahead or behind some assigned grade standard.  Even with Common Core or a graduated curriculum -- that does not cause everyone to be a certain place.  Kids are doing how they are doing.  They are in the grade they are in.  It is not something where you need to agonize over it. 

 

But I don't think you need to consider her "not a real x grader" over this. 

 

I would look at where she would like to be socially and put her with that age level socially. 

 

For academics -- be where she is, and where she will learn the most. 

 

No kids fit a cookie cutter. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Since you are homeschooling, I really don't see how this matters.  My kids are all over the place.  I choose the next books, etc. based on wherever they are at or what makes sense at the time.  I give no consideration towards whatever grade is written on the book (although most books I use aren't really associated with a grade level).  What makes some subjects and topics, etc. associated with a particular grade level? This I wouldn't even know.  I realize schools need to have some sort of specific "system" of tracking students, but in a homeschool situation why?  We have some testing requirements in my state too, but I haven't had any trouble figuring out what to do despite not really thinking much about what grade my kids are in.  In fact if asked, I usually can't answer right away because I forget.  I just say the grade based on age.  It has no meaning for us otherwise.

 

Plus sometimes kids surprise you.  They may seem immature and then within a short period of time it's like wow what happened?  They suddenly seem much more mature.  Or all those times you thought they weren't paying attention stuff sank in anyway.  I have one like that.  For the longest time I would have said he was likely behind his age peers.  Very recently and seemingly suddenly he has really blossomed.  I keep wondering who abducted my kid and replaced him with this current model.  LOL 

[73349]

Some options to think about:

• Pretend you've moved to a state with an August cutoff (like mine).
• Declare this grade 6B, a transitional year between 6 and 7. If your state requires you to declare a grade, call it 6.
• Do 7th grade but give her until Sept. 1. to finish the work, moving more slowly and with extra scaffolding.

[Chris in VA]

I think it only matters because of the end result--grade level dictates when a child stops high school and looks at college, right? So if your child is "in" 7th grade, then you have 5 years (not counting the current year) left of "basic" education.

Homeschooling certainly does mean you can tailor their curricula and don't need to worry about the label of grade level.

 

AFA "cost" for us, it was that he saw his age-mates graduate without him. It hurt. We had kept him in youth group according to his age. He skewed older already, but then with the extra year, he was seeing kids graduate at 17 (those with summer birthdays who had barely turned 5 at the start of K), and here he was, 19 and still in school. BUT, because he expressed that disappointment, we said we'd let him use the summer as a semester (although it was shortened) and graduate in December of what would have been his Sr. year. That meant, on paper, he could write the same year as his peers for his graduation (he'd just leave off the Dec. vs the June, IYKWIM). Then he worked a few months before going to college. The extra $ and work experience served him well, also. So technically, he was still a year behind them, but he felt better about it. Not exactly a gap year, but close. He also took an extra summer to graduate college; that was mostly because of the program (film students did production in the summers).

 

All in all, the cost (some of his self esteem) was truly worth it, even to him.

 

From your second post, I'd hold her back. You can always speed up later like we did, if you really want to. There are options. <3

[Splash]

We changed dd's grade designation.  She did two sixth grade years.  She was advanced young and we started early because academically she was ready, more than ready really.  She does great, gets good grades, is still advanced.  She was also tiny (4'6" and 70lbs with no signs of puberty in first time through sixth grade), immature socially, emotionally. She feels she fits better in the younger grade with the other kids. We always told her we would adjust her grade for the proper one before she started high school so she always knew it was coming.  We keep the academics going at her level no matter the grade she is in.  If she ends up graduating from high school early that's fine just trying to allow her some breathing room.  She will be 18 at graduation.

 

Just our experience.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I have a DD who is about a year "behind". I also have one with a very late birthday. We've decided to stick with the grade they should be in based on age. The cut off in our state is December 31. Our plan is to have them keep working at their own level but have them in their age based grade through the 8th grade. At that point we will sit down with each of them and evaluate. The only grades where it really matters that certain things are accomplished at certain times are 9th-12th (and even then there is some flexibility). If we don't feel they are ready for the course of high school study we lay out for them (and this will most likely vary depending on the child), and they don't feel they are ready for the course load, we will do a "high school prep" year after 8th grade. We would use that year for whatever prep we feel is necessary - reviewing basic skills, gaining maturity, completing 8th grade work, exploring interests, whatever... We're still a few years from this so I'm not sure exactly how it will play out but that's our plan.

[wapiti]

I don't have an opinion on the decision for a September birthday. I just wanted to point out that there is some major incongruence between early SAT and Duke TIP application on the one hand and holding back a grade level on the other.

 

I would discuss the dilemma with her but if possible I would not make a final decision until at least the end of 8th grade. For my dd, a *whole lot* of maturing, in terms of schoolwork and challenging herself, occurred over the course of 7th grade. If your dd is interested in things like Duke TIP, I would channel that little cusp-of-self-motivation as much as possible, planting seeds and hoping they grow.

[PeterPan]

Plus sometimes kids surprise you.  They may seem immature and then within a short period of time it's like wow what happened?  They suddenly seem much more mature.  Or all those times you thought they weren't paying attention stuff sank in anyway.  I have one like that.  For the longest time I would have said he was likely behind his age peers.  Very recently and seemingly suddenly he has really blossomed.  I keep wondering who abducted my kid and replaced him with this current model.  LOL 

I'm not saying anything about your dc, because I don't know him.  I will say that my clearly very bright ds has always come across young, immature, and it really made us question what was going on.  (As in we just paid $2K to a psych to figure out WHAT was going on, because it was SO dramatic.)  Turns out, and I didn't realize this, that ADHD can have a 30% social delay.  I knew about the EF delay, but I didn't know about the social.  

 

So that's NO commentary on your dc, but for my ds what that means is he seems behind, is behind, has a growth spurt, and is STILL behind.

[Jilly]

I would not hold her back at this stage. I have seen too many kids upset by not being with their same-aged peers that I really don't think it is worth it. Also many kids are still immature in 7th grade. You will probably see a good deal of growth in her over the next few years. If you still have concerns in high school you could add a year if necessary, and you could frame it as adding a year as opposed to being held back. 

[maize]

In most states she would be 6th grade by age the year she turns twelve.

 

Dd11 has a September birthday. We started homeschooling in a state with a late cut-off; I went by the public school standards and called the fall she turned 5 kindergarten. The summer after third grade I felt strongly that she needed some extra time to mature and focus on a few non-academic issues, so we called the next year third grade again. Of course we did not actually repeat any material, the grade adjustment just allowed us to back off a bit on some academics and not feel in a rush. I ended up adjusting her younger brother's grade level as well (late July birthday. I figure if they hit high school years and want to push ahead and graduate earlier they can make that choice and do the work. For now it just seems better to not have the pressure of the more advanced grade levels.

[Lori D.]

In you case, with the idea being a relief to DD so she is on-board with the idea, then there's nothing really standing in your way. :)

 

As others have said, she may spurt ahead in high school, and graduate early. Or take mostly dual enrollment in her last year or two of high school school.

 

We held back DS#1 (he was kinder at the time), and it the best thing for him. He turned 19 about a month before graduating high school. We've known quite a few students who graduated at 19 -- some had summer birthdays, so they turned 19 even before senior year, so it is not uncommon at all.

 

In all the cases I personally know in my area, it helped the students go from struggling to barely hang on to the end of a fast-flying treadmill, to being able to go at a pace better suited to their individual academic maturing timetable to be able to both succeed AND to be more of a leader and be able to enjoy their extracurriculars and social activities.

 

Most of those students were homeschoolers, but one young man was in a traditional school setting and repeated 8th grade. Shifting him from a charter to a private school (which continued up through high school) really helped make it an overall change rather than just about "repeating".

 

Perhaps change the focus from "holding back" to "time for exploration". As previous posters mentioned, continue working where you are, but scale back the expectations a little and go at a slower pace that better fits DD. And esp., use this time for exploring -- focus on developing some special interests of DD, trying some new elective type courses, and getting involved in some extracurriculars.

 

BEST of luck to DD and you, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

[In2why]

Almost always, I believe that when we have to put a grade-level label on a homeschooled child, it should be the one he'd be in if he were in school, based on his date of birth and the cut-off in his state.

 

I see no reason for you to hold your child back on paper. "Grade level" has nothing whatsoever to do with maturity. It is only a designation of how many years they've been in school.

I somewhat agree because by homeschooling we are free to choose materials based on skill versus grade level. But once kids get to high school choices are often different. PSAT's are taken in 10th grade. Other standard tests in other grades. Then grade level does become important. Even thinking about dual enrollment with a community college and being 15 versus 16.

My son has a late August birthday and was slower to read. We held him back a grade and so far no regrets. Even outside activities often are based on grade level and require certain knowledge and maturity.

[allyphoe]

For a kid whose birthday would place them in the lower grade in many states, I personally don't see major incongruence. I'd much rather see talent search age-normed the way SET is, but it sounds like OP's daughter would be age-appropriate for either grade.

 

FWIW, my DD11 is grade-skipped because she's in public school and a skip got her a better fit both academically and socially. But were I in the OP's situation, with a child who would be age-appropriate in either grade and both parent and child having the gut feeling that the lower grade was a better placement, I'd put her in the lower grade.

 

That would particularly be the case if the lower grade were the first year of middle school. For my DD at least, the big middle school adjustment was in executive function, not so much academics, and kids could move freely into or out of the advanced track at the end of that year (but not necessarily in subsequent years). So if you weren't sure about the appropriate math placement in 6th, you could take any class and still be eligible for every math offering in 7th. But your placement in 7th limited your options for 8th. (This is obviously going to be highly dependent on school district; one of the neighboring districts starts restricted-access tracking in 5th.)

 

Regarding the issues raised on the other thread, I had real doubts about public middle school. But my DD is really thriving in her middle school, far more than she did in public elementary. She is the quiet kid who sits at the back and is not internally motivated to challenge herself beyond what's required, and the middle school teachers have really drawn her out and challenged her. She works harder for them than for me. (Again, YMMV!)