immaturity or challenge?

[mamabear2three]

Can you help me see through the murky waters to understand better what I'm working with here?

 

My DD is 6 and a half, technically in 1st grade. She picks up on math concepts very easily. I only started cluing into what was going on at the end of last year and tested her through/out of the first grade math curriculum we had started (and I thought I was being really bold by using a 1st grade curriculum in K... lol) . This year I had her test through the first half of horizons 2, then we took a break and started Beast 3A. I am trying to find a happy medium between something that's not too easy but not too hard either. I wanted to go deeper instead of wider/faster and was hoping that Beast would be the means to that end.

 

The first chapter in Beast was great, she met the challenge well and enjoyed it. Then we started the skip counting and I refused to let her skip any problems and we got into a fight over skip counting by 12s. I decided she might be too immature for the level of thought required in Beast, so we went back to horizons and are testing through the second half of level 2.

 

Based on progress thus far, we'll be finished by Thanksgiving. 

 

So my questions:

 

- Is it possible to advance too quickly, thus reaching material requiring more maturity than age allows? (the concept here would be to stick with something like Horizons and just advance her through until she reaches a point of challenge)

- What would you do? Continue to advance through Horizons, since it is working (she's willing to do it without a fight) or try going back to Beast at some point?

- I kind of had it in my head that if she can't answer all the questions in Beast, she isn't ready for the material...is that erroneous?

- Does it matter if math is always easy? I know she'll get to a point of challenge, and I am concerned that if she faces no challenge prior to something like Pre-A or Algebra that she will have a more difficult time adjusting to the challenge. 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions??

[Tanikit]

I think there are a number of issues that need to be addressed in some way when accelerating and they will differ from child to child:

 

1. How much repetition does this child really need to grasp a concept and also how long are things retained with minimal repetition?

 

2. Has the child already mastered this work and is this just busy work - then skip ahead.

 

3. I know people say that certain math concepts are about maturity - but there is seldom any emotional content to Math - you will find if your child continually struggles that you may need to slow down for a while (when my DD reached LOF Ice Cream we did need to slow down - we had been doing a chapter a day up until then and now we do less and I will continue to do what works for my child)

 

4. The aim of a curriculum is not to get 100% on every exercise - yes for Math a child should be able to get the correct answer in the end - that is the point of most questions in Maths, but there should be some effort and retrying of problems to get there else there is no challenge.

 

5. No Math should not always be easy, but nor should it be a constant battle or challenge.

 

6. Finally children of 5, 6, 7 and probably older too have off days and good days, off seasons and better ones - they seldom develop in a straight line and Math seldom goes in a straight line either. Just adjust to your child. If she needs Horizons 2 now - great, if she needs BA 3A and B next month then that is fine too.

 

7. Finding out the problem when an advanced child complains is tricky - is it curriculum, is it a bad day, is it the expectations, is the work boring or too challenging, is it just the child testing boundaries - sometimes you have to go with your gut on this and sometimes it is trial and error. Why don't you try a bit of BA and switch with Horizons a day at a time or a week at a time - whatever works for you and your child however I imagine that BA would be a lot more advanced than Horizons 2 so maybe she needs something inbetween these two.

 

[Dmmetler]

I'd suggest accelerating through the end of 3rd grade in Horizons and then start working in BA. BA doesn't have as much practice of the basics as most curricula, and adds a lot of new topics, and is still challenging and skull straining even when it's not the first exposure to much of the content. It's designed for advanced 3rd graders, so if you're going to get to it younger, front-loading comes in handy. At that point, decide if you need to keep Horizons or go to just BA for the challenge. I'd also suggest Primary Challenge Math, Penrose the Mathematical Cat, and other extra math books along with a core series. FWIW, we did BA 3A/3B after my DD had finished SM 5B, and she still enjoyed them and found some of the problems difficult. We just did BA 3C and 3D quite recently, when she was doing AOPS Beginning Algebra (because a wonderful person on the board here sent them to us) and she still enjoyed them and found that some of the problems required serious thought.

 

I think sometimes there's an implication that if a program is good for GT kids of X grade, of course it's perfect for younger GT kids working on X grade. That's not always the case. Some of the writing assignments in MCT Island (written for GT 3rd grade) are honestly harder than those in Lightning Literature 7th grade.  so asking a child, even a highly gifted one, to do those as a kindergartner or 1st grader is a stretch, especially if they're asynchronous. Often those parts of the curriculum that are a stretch are really the greatest strength of the program.

 

In general, I've found that if my DD can do the parts of the curriculum independently that would be done independently in the classroom, the curriculum is on the right level. If she's getting frustrated constantly, it's too much. If she's never getting frustrated, it's too little.

 

 

 

 

[Kerileanne99]

My dd is a bit younger, but I have found that this is a constant problem. We are consistently juggling back and forth between multiple curricula and supplements looking for a perfect balance. Not enough learning new concepts and she gets bored, always wanting more. Too much in-depth long Beast-style puzzle problems and she gets so frustrated she shuts down.

 

Alex is working through SM 4A at the moment, but we are still playing with Beast 3B. We have tackled some in 3C and 3D as well, to go along with what she was working on, but just because she understands the math concepts does not mean she has the patience to work through the problems. And they can be hugely problematic for young perfectionists! I am fine with that. I want to introduce her to the idea that all math does not have to be easy or have an instant solution, provide her challenge and foster her live of math. I wouldn't mind if we work all the way through elementary math and them come back to them later. In a lot of ways, that would be perfect. A natural review, with extensions:)

We also supplement with Primary Challenge math, CWP, math puzzle books and all sorts of activities I pull from the Internet. She chose to put away SM for a bit and asked to work through the Key to Fractions, Decimals, and Percents series. I have no idea WHERE we will actually be when she is done, lol. In addition, she LOVES Hands-on-Equations for 'play time.' It is so gentle and a great introduction to an algebraic way of thinking. (And, plug for cuteness, there is a video of my kiddo on Dr. Borenson's YouTube/Facebook channel having fun with it!)

 

We read short biographies about mathmaticians and scientists who struggled for YEARS on certain concepts or problems. That has been a big help, as well as learning to when to put the problem away for the day...or longer.

 

Ultimately, I don't think there is an easy answer for how to find just the right mix. I think you will have to mix, match, and juggle programs to try to find a decent balance...and constantly adjust that as you go.

[Arcadia]

We did skip counting by 12 at the grocers counting eggs by the dozen. My kids forget they are doing math and start asking about baker's dozen. As for skip counting, my kids won't willing to do that anymore at 6 since they knew their multiplication facts. Does she find it "babyish" or boring?

 

I'll pair a program she like as the core/spine and add challenge on the side.

[mamabear2three]

Great, so in other words, it is never going to be easy!

My dd is a bit younger, but I have found that this is a constant problem. We are consistently juggling back and forth between multiple curricula and supplements looking for a perfect balance. Not enough learning new concepts and she gets bored, always wanting more. Too much in-depth long Beast-style puzzle problems and she gets so frustrated she shuts down.

Alex is working through SM 4A at the moment, but we are still playing with Beast 3B. We have tackled some in 3C and 3D as well, to go along with what she was working on, but just because she understands the math concepts does not mean she has the patience to work through the problems. And they can be hugely problematic for young perfectionists! I am fine with that. I want to introduce her to the idea that all math does not have to be easy or have an instant solution, provide her challenge and foster her live of math. I wouldn't mind if we work all the way through elementary math and them come back to them later. In a lot of ways, that would be perfect. A natural review, with extensions:)
We also supplement with Primary Challenge math, CWP, math puzzle books and all sorts of activities I pull from the Internet. She chose to put away SM for a bit and asked to work through the Key to Fractions, Decimals, and Percents series. I have no idea WHERE we will actually be when she is done, lol. In addition, she LOVES Hands-on-Equations for 'play time.' It is so gentle and a great introduction to an algebraic way of thinking. (And, plug for cuteness, there is a video of my kiddo on Dr. Borenson's YouTube/Facebook channel having fun with it!)

We read short biographies about mathmaticians and scientists who struggled for YEARS on certain concepts or problems. That has been a big help, as well as learning to when to put the problem away for the day...or longer.

Ultimately, I don't think there is an easy answer for how to find just the right mix. I think you will have to mix, match, and juggle programs to try to find a decent balance...and constantly adjust that as you go.

 

 

I think she found it boring, honestly, but also challenging because she couldn't just count by 12s, she had to think and figure it out.

We did skip counting by 12 at the grocers counting eggs by the dozen. My kids forget they are doing math and start asking about baker's dozen. As for skip counting, my kids won't willing to do that anymore at 6 since they knew their multiplication facts. Does she find it "babyish" or boring?

I'll pair a program she like as the core/spine and add challenge on the side.

 

I think I'll be ordering Horizons 3 at the very least, because right now, I am at a point in life where I just need easy for a few months. After we go through that, I'll reevaluate. The nice thing is I already own beast 3 so we can go to it whenever we want.