SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 From my kids' 3rd grade science homework (no text / reference provided): All questions can be answered by investigations: True / False and why? My kid's answer [sic]: "False because scientists don't always have enough information to there experiment." WRONG. The "correct answer": false, because some questions are answered by opinions. Is this how we're going to regain competitiveness in science and technology? BTW this is lesson one of science for the year - they just started science last week because they had to focus on the state proficiency test first. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Common Core is language and math, not science. Btw, I like your dc's answer better than the 'correct' one, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 There is no such thing as common core science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 OK, I took out "common core" from the title. I just figured this was part of the new trend to make kids "smarter" or something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 That looks similar to a until my second grader did recently. The point of the unit is to learn the difference between scientific and non-scientific questions. "How much food does my cat eat in a day" can be answered by a scientific investigation. "Is blue prettier than green?" cannot. Having been a judge for a middle school science fair for the last few years I was delighted to see work on identifying and formulating good scientific questions. Okay ... unfortunately neither of my kids had any idea how to answer that question, so I guess the lesson wasn't taught very well. Of course as the parent who has no access to the textbook etc., I had no idea what they were getting at. Seems like something they should have done in class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 And since that is their only science grade so far, I guess they are going to get Fs in science.... I can't imagine they were the only students who had no clue how to answer. Who would think a 3rd grade science worksheet was asking for stuff about opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I guess I need to find a way to get that textbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I don't think the question or either answer are a problem. I do think grading them on it is wrong. If the purpose is to teach the limitations of science then all answers should be accepted and used as jumping off points for teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I guess I need to find a way to get that textbook. You need the teachers manual (textbook has no answers) :lol: The Why? means an open-ended answer anyway as long as the answer is sensible/logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 You need the teachers manual (textbook has no answers) :lol: The Why? means an open-ended answer anyway as long as the answer is sensible/logical. Well, it was marked wrong. So we'll see whether it comes through on the report card. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't. I don't need the "answers," I just want to know what the heck they are getting at. If I'd known they were teaching the kids about opinion questions being different from whatever other kind of questions, I could have had the girls look over that section (or reminded them about it) until they figured out what was wanted. Instead, after they both said they had no idea, I asked questions like "can you think of any questions that scientists maybe can't answer? Why do you think they can't answer them?" The first part of the worksheet quizzed the words "scientist," "inquiry," and "investigate" so I figured that was what they were getting at. The last (essay) question was: "Think about where you live. What questions could you ask about it? What might you do to investigate?" No indication that opinion questions were being discussed. Now I'm feeling like a jerk for misleading my kids. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This sounds like the Next Generation Science Standards text stuff. It is not Common Core, but it is being adopted by states in various places. The implementation is staggered, and in general, teachers get very little training/education. It is one of those four evenings after school and then GO! They are handed a book supposedly aligned, given all the worksheets, and then just sent out to completely shift what they are expected to be doing. I do not doubt your kid is clueless and it seems totally bizarre. The teacher probably feels the same way! http://www.nextgenscience.org/search-standards-dci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 This sounds like the Next Generation Science Standards text stuff. It is not Common Core, but it is being adopted by states in various places. The implementation is staggered, and in general, teachers get very little training/education. It is one of those four evenings after school and then GO! They are handed a book supposedly aligned, given all the worksheets, and then just sent out to completely shift what they are expected to be doing. I do not doubt your kid is clueless and it seems totally bizarre. The teacher probably feels the same way! http://www.nextgenscience.org/search-standards-dci Better yet, it's a substitute teacher who is filling in over maternity leave. I suspect she sent it home as homework because she didn't want to deal with it in class. But she should have sent the text or some reference material too. The school's website has curriculum links etc. Unfortunately they are outdated. The school switched to this publisher this year and there is no info anywhere outside of the classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I confess that I'm a cynic about religiously affliated education so that's where my mind went -- not to "which is yummier, hot dogs or hamburgers" but to "evolution is just an opinion," kind of stuff. My local Christian school (which is not Lutheran) states clearly on its main website, "We do not interpret the Bible through the eyes of science, but science through the eyes of Truth – God’s Word." Either way, definitely not cool for your DD's clever answer to be marked wrong with no feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This sounds like the Next Generation Science Standards text stuff. It is not Common Core, but it is being adopted by states in various places. The implementation is staggered, and in general, teachers get very little training/education. It is one of those four evenings after school and then GO! They are handed a book supposedly aligned, given all the worksheets, and then just sent out to completely shift what they are expected to be doing. I do not doubt your kid is clueless and it seems totally bizarre. The teacher probably feels the same way! http://www.nextgenscience.org/search-standards-dci Actually Next Gen Science is related to Common Core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) nm Edited October 30, 2014 by Susan Wise Bauer This is pot-stirring, and doesn't add to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Actually Next Gen Science is related to Common Core. It is related, but it is not the same thing. Only 26 states have adopted the science standards. They are a separate organization and they are a separate system for adopting. It allows states like Wyoming to accept Common Core, but not the Next Gen Science because they can then eliminate the need for Climate Change science if they feel it is objectionable. There is no way to edit out hot button issues with Common Core in the same way so they separated the two in hopes more states would adopt if they could disregard the science. It was a political move, but often times states do not have the money for the STEM sections of the science standards and thus wind up not using them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well that is more or less what I meant by the limitations of science. You have to have a question that can be stated clearly and investigated. You can't inbestigate an opinion but you can investigate how widespread an opinion is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I would note that they do supposedly "scientific" studies regarding opinions all the time. For example, "a Pew poll found that xx% of Americans are against Common Core. Margin of error __%." So that is a gray area IMO, given a third-grader's mentality and life experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 They had another science worksheet last night (the second this week so far), but this time they brought home the book, thankfully. It was still weird. They worded the questions poorly. Very open-ended and yet they expect specific answers. And this homework takes too long on top of their other homework. Blah. Of course that is another issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I would note that they do supposedly "scientific" studies regarding opinions all the time. For example, "a Pew poll found that xx% of Americans are against Common Core. Margin of error __%." So that is a gray area IMO, given a third-grader's mentality and life experience. No, this is something completely different. The question "what is your opinion about Common Core?" is not a scientific question; the answer is completely subjective and can not be answered with scientific inquiry. The question "How many percent of Americans are against Common Core?" is a scientific question and can be answered objectively through systematic inquiry. Apples and oranges. Give 8 year olds more credit. They can understand the difference between "which kind of candy do you prefer?" and "Do more students prefer candy A or candy B?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 No, this is something completely different. The question "what is your opinion about Common Core?" is not a scientific question; the answer is completely subjective and can not be answered with scientific inquiry. The question "How many percent of Americans are against Common Core?" is a scientific question and can be answered objectively through systematic inquiry. Apples and oranges. Give 8 year olds more credit. They can understand the difference between "which kind of candy do you prefer?" and "Do more students prefer candy A or candy B?" It depends on how well the concept is taught, i.e., how well the 3rd grade teacher (in this case inexperienced substitute teacher) is able to articulate this for young kids. Usually a 3rd grade teacher isn't all that sciencey to begin with. It is clear so far that my kids are not learning the concepts intended. And it's not because both of them are stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I would tell my kid that her answer was much better than the school's but wouldn't do anything else about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 SKL, if there is any way they would lend you the textbook for just one day you could get the ISBN number and possibly order the book on-line through Amazon or Abe Books or something like that. But get the ISBN. I did it for all the kids' textbooks starting in 2nd grade and it helped tremendously. I was able to get them pretty cheaply, too. Some were just a few dollars. Depends on the book, though, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yeah, these books came out in 2012 and there is a specific one for our state. I could not find it on Amazon.com, but I did put a similar book from another state in my cart. I figure it can't be all that different, can it? If I order a "replacement" student text from the publisher, it is like $25. There is a website listed in the textbook and I'm going to look it up and see if it has any resources for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 This question is actually a good one, and a simplified version of the first thing my 6th grader studied in his book this year - to learn the types of questions for which you can form and test a hypothesis, supposed facts versus opinions. It may be that the lesson wasn't taught well, but it could also be that your kiddo isn't quite understanding the difference yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 From my kids' 3rd grade science homework (no text / reference provided): All questions can be answered by investigations: True / False and why? My kid's answer [sic]: "False because scientists don't always have enough information to there experiment." WRONG. The "correct answer": false, because some questions are answered by opinions. Is this how we're going to regain competitiveness in science and technology? BTW this is lesson one of science for the year - they just started science last week because they had to focus on the state proficiency test first. :/ Maybe the teacher did not understand your child's response because of the spelling error. I would ask the teacher why the answer was "WRONG". An opinion can't fully answer a scientific investigation. I like your child's answer but that's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I think the school's answer is correct. Plenty of questions cannot be answered by scientific investigation, such as: "Which would you rather have for dessert, ice cream or chocolate cake?" This is not a question about the external world. It is a question about a specific state of affairs that is extremely limited in space and time, and therefore not repeatable. Also, your son's answer was also correct. Sometimes they do not have enough information. There are actually a lot of questions that cannot be answered using the scientific method. The fact that this is the first lesson of the year is far more disturbing. From my kids' 3rd grade science homework (no text / reference provided): All questions can be answered by investigations: True / False and why? My kid's answer [sic]: "False because scientists don't always have enough information to there experiment." WRONG. The "correct answer": false, because some questions are answered by opinions. Is this how we're going to regain competitiveness in science and technology? BTW this is lesson one of science for the year - they just started science last week because they had to focus on the state proficiency test first. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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